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The Dragon Prince |OT| The Last Frameratebender (Update: Renewed through season 7)
- Thread starter Deleted member 4609
- Start date
- OT
From the AMA:
General Amaya is deaf and can read lips
I thought she was just mute but she is deaf as well, but is able to read lips which is why she can understand others without needing others to also use sign language.
Edit: Although another pointed out that subtly in scenes where she didn't see them speaking, Gren was signing back to her what they just said. Nice little detail.
General Amaya is deaf and can read lips
I thought she was just mute but she is deaf as well, but is able to read lips which is why she can understand others without needing others to also use sign language.
Edit: Although another pointed out that subtly in scenes where she didn't see them speaking, Gren was signing back to her what they just said. Nice little detail.
How is it not? Humans vs elves for the millionth time in fantasy. Dragons being the end all be all fantasy creatures. Dark magic being largely used by humanity as they fight against the nature and natural magic of the other races. A young kid learning he's a wizard. I haven't seen a single thing in its setting that makes it stand out from other fantasy vs a universe where nations are divided via the type of magic they do in an Asian themed setting where the magic is inspired by different types of martial arts techniques with a God/messiah character being the only one who can do them all and acting as a mediator.
I found this to be surprisingly decent. I still find the animation to terrible, and some of the models feel like they weren't designed to be seen in 3D, but most of the main cast look very clean and the jerky animation sometimes looks alright but I do hope the frame rate becomes more consistent in season 2. The story and the main 3 characters are pretty enjoyable despite being really generic but I'd say most of the side characters, Claudia and Soren, are pretty terrible and do nothing but showcase just how bad the writing and especially the comedy is here. I do hope this gets additional seasons just so I can see the story unfold and hopefully become more creative as well, it seems to be gaining some popularity despite Netflix not really advertising it much.
I just finished watching episode 5, and I have to say that I'm really enjoying it thus far. The animation was a bit jarring at first, but I think I'm used to it now.
I love Rayla's accent.
I love Rayla's accent.
How it plays with these tropes is what makes it interesting. Remember that Avatar was very tropey as well but did a bang up job when it came to handling them.
Evidently you haven't played a telltale game in ages because they don't even remotely look this clean.
I think that the writing was a little janky at times, mostly regarding the antagonists, but Aaron Ehasz shows that, when he is on, almost no one makes characters as endearing as he does. By the end of the season I was totally sold on the heroes.
Hope there is time next season to slow down, sink into the world building and improve the antagonist arc.
Hope there is time next season to slow down, sink into the world building and improve the antagonist arc.
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Season impressions:
Despite the stilted animation choice used, the season as a whole was really good. Definitely a bit too short, but overall a very strong opening to what could very well be better than ATLA, by the end. I did eventually get over the issues with the animation as well tho I hope they correct it going forward.
My only real complaint comes from
Now for the long wait until season 2, which will hopefully be a bit longer.
Despite the stilted animation choice used, the season as a whole was really good. Definitely a bit too short, but overall a very strong opening to what could very well be better than ATLA, by the end. I did eventually get over the issues with the animation as well tho I hope they correct it going forward.
My only real complaint comes from
not sure why she isn't more questioning of her father's motives considering she's aware of both the hidden dragon egg and the imprisonment of Gren. I get that she seems like a bit of an airhead or a goof, but it seems like she brushes some really terrible stuff off very casually up until the bit that the egg is more important than the princes.
Now for the long wait until season 2, which will hopefully be a bit longer.
none of the characters really got to the endearing part for me yet. From the get go two of the three main cast members are a variation of Sokka with making constant jokes during serious moments. I feel the quirky humor has to be earned. I'm willing to give it a chance since Aang was also a jokester from the start besides Sokka, but god damn it's been grating for me. Claudia is reminding me a lot of the quirky girl in Azula's trio, which is fine cause I liked her character. I just wish we had a Zuko type of more serious character among the kids.
I do think they could cut down a bit on constantly shooting for jokes, as they don't always function for the story, and they were leaned on too heavily. I understand going for the ATLA balance of dramatic and light tones, which is spectacularly difficult to achieve, but these characters can be genuinely interesting without worrying about so many laughs.
Free and easy is fine, right? And maybe with time they can refine the writing to get there. I'll be there!
Free and easy is fine, right? And maybe with time they can refine the writing to get there. I'll be there!
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This show was pretty cute, I actually dug how it looked and the art design in general, even fi the animation framerate was spotty at times, but in general it was fine. Held my attention longer than when I tried watching The Last Airbender, at least.
When are we getting more episodes? Nine are really too few.
When are we getting more episodes? Nine are really too few.
This was pretty good but I felt the episode list was too short.
I didn't really like the framerate in the beginning but like everyone said, you get used to it and it definitely felt smooth later on.
I'm assume 2 seasons will come out every year, maybe 3. I wish they can have more episodes in a season though.
I didn't really like the framerate in the beginning but like everyone said, you get used to it and it definitely felt smooth later on.
I'm assume 2 seasons will come out every year, maybe 3. I wish they can have more episodes in a season though.
hmmm
don't see it lasting too long. While it'd be interesting for a children show to maintain a relatively morally grey villain who actually started out as an ally, alongside his children who aren't too sure about what they have to do, ultimately he isn't a very potentially menacing villain. Looks like his whole character is to do what he thinks is best for the kingdom.
Avatar did a fantastic job of never really showing you Fire Lord Ozai until near the end. So he was always this otherwordly threatening enemy because you only heard about the horrible and menacing shit he did. Plus you met his subordinates and family and think that if these are only people directly under him, then god dam he must be threatening.
Brilliant show. I like the setting and interaction between the characters. What i am looking for the most is the world building of this series. I want to see more of the human kingdoms.
I finished the season a few hours ago.
It's an enjoyable show, with an interesting world and some great characters, but I think it clearly needed more than 9 episodes to flesh some of those out.
The dialogue was so-so overall, and I think they spent too many time in the last 2 episodes with jokes that led nowhere instead of doing something more useful with the remaining screen time.
some small things about Viren
I'm here for another season and the game, but I need a lot more of character development.
It's an enjoyable show, with an interesting world and some great characters, but I think it clearly needed more than 9 episodes to flesh some of those out.
The dialogue was so-so overall, and I think they spent too many time in the last 2 episodes with jokes that led nowhere instead of doing something more useful with the remaining screen time.
some small things about Viren
I don't know if it was either how he was written or how the VA was recorded, but the frequent jumps from being a good guy to a bad guy were distracting. Those early moments with Harrow were genuine, without a hint of sarcasm telling that he was maybe a bad guy underneath. Because of it, the show made me think he was actually a good person, then completely changed his personality, and did so a few other times.
I'm here for another season and the game, but I need a lot more of character development.
Watched the first 4 episodes.
Has a fun sense of humor, decent enough characters so far. I like a lot of the design an color work.
I think the first couple episodes are where the animation looks roughest, but early in any show is going to be a learning experience.
I also think the storyboarding gets a lot more interesting with time.
Has a fun sense of humor, decent enough characters so far. I like a lot of the design an color work.
I think the first couple episodes are where the animation looks roughest, but early in any show is going to be a learning experience.
I also think the storyboarding gets a lot more interesting with time.
It was fun but it feels like it just abruptly cuts off. Not a great way to end a season, clearly needed more episodes.
Also, I got used to the choppy frame rate, in certain action scenes it even worked quite well going from slower choppier animations to more fluid ones to demonstrate speed.
Also, I got used to the choppy frame rate, in certain action scenes it even worked quite well going from slower choppier animations to more fluid ones to demonstrate speed.
Watching ep 1 now, and finding it increasingly harder to take it seriously by having scenes from Disenchantment fresh in my head :P The tropes are so much more visable now after that show haha
Besides that, it feels perfectly fine :)
Besides that, it feels perfectly fine :)
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Finally finished this.
The writing on this show is just so wonky
People who were complaining that everyone was Sokka were more right than not. That isn't to say humor is bad but all the characters on the show have the same type of humor and that is problematic for one key reason: with every major character using the same style of humor they are less differentiated because of it. On Avatar the characters and their personalities were shown partly through their humor, a joke from Toph could never come from Aang, the characterization was so strong that it would be impossible without it feeling out of character.
In The Dragon Prince there is so little characterization going on that you could swap Claudia and Soren with Callum and Rayla within the story and little would need to be changed. The characters would talk and react and joke in the exact same manner, the only difference is their respective places in the story. Imagine if Zuko was the Avatar and Toph and Katara found him in the iceberg, just picture how completely different the interaction of that grouping of three would be compared to Aang, Sokka, and Katara.
Take a look at Rayla pretending to be a human. Good in theory...but she already acts exactly like a human. Her pretending might be humorous but it highlights how little the characters' and their personalities are given any real substance outside of backstory and motivation.
This wonkiness hits Viren hardest.
I think the idea was to make him a more nuanced figure than someone like Ozai but it ends up feeling like he is ping-ponging all over the place. By trying to be more nuanced the show just opens itself up to all sorts of problems that Avatar never had to deal with. Ozai is the Firelord and is a bad dude, one and done.
But on The Dragon Prince you have Viren whose supposed multi-dimensionality puts his actions and behavior under scrutiny that they can't stand up to.
Skipping the ceremony around Harrow's death even when everyone is against it, trying to crown himself when that is not how that works, being outright hostile to Amaya despite the fact she has an actual claim to the throne and will actually challenge him. So is he a fool but everyone else is a pushover? Or is he really clever and everyone else is dumb?
This leads to what I think is the worst scene in the show. First Viren is like "Don't worry, Amaya. You can leave and I'll find the kids. And I know you know I am evil but I'll send my own kids to find them." Amaya rightfully responds with "Uh, how about no. My freckled boy Gren will do it." We then get a moment where she warns Gren and some soldiers that Viren will absolutely betray them and she leaves. And then Viren immediately, as in Amaya must be less than 100 feet away, replaces Gren with Soren and everyone just goes along with it. Hey Gren, just go get Amaya. Or slap Viren in some cuffs yourself.
Viren as schemer doesn't work partly because the rest of the show isn't built around intrigue but mostly because we have no idea what his goals, his desires, even what his values are. The show treats him like Littlefinger but with a heart, he is a guy who put his friend's soul into a bird because he loves him so much after all. But then he plans to kill said friend's sons. And sacrifice his own son if need be. And that is before he gets 'evil face' at the end for good measure. He is a mess of a character.
And it is no wonder that a lot of people instantly liked Amaya. Besides being a badass, I think the fact that she can only communicate via signing made it so that the creators had to make sure that her characterization was clear. Compared to everyone else she comes across as a fully realized character.
Random Thoughts:
The writing on this show is just so wonky
People who were complaining that everyone was Sokka were more right than not. That isn't to say humor is bad but all the characters on the show have the same type of humor and that is problematic for one key reason: with every major character using the same style of humor they are less differentiated because of it. On Avatar the characters and their personalities were shown partly through their humor, a joke from Toph could never come from Aang, the characterization was so strong that it would be impossible without it feeling out of character.
In The Dragon Prince there is so little characterization going on that you could swap Claudia and Soren with Callum and Rayla within the story and little would need to be changed. The characters would talk and react and joke in the exact same manner, the only difference is their respective places in the story. Imagine if Zuko was the Avatar and Toph and Katara found him in the iceberg, just picture how completely different the interaction of that grouping of three would be compared to Aang, Sokka, and Katara.
Take a look at Rayla pretending to be a human. Good in theory...but she already acts exactly like a human. Her pretending might be humorous but it highlights how little the characters' and their personalities are given any real substance outside of backstory and motivation.
This wonkiness hits Viren hardest.
I think the idea was to make him a more nuanced figure than someone like Ozai but it ends up feeling like he is ping-ponging all over the place. By trying to be more nuanced the show just opens itself up to all sorts of problems that Avatar never had to deal with. Ozai is the Firelord and is a bad dude, one and done.
But on The Dragon Prince you have Viren whose supposed multi-dimensionality puts his actions and behavior under scrutiny that they can't stand up to.
Skipping the ceremony around Harrow's death even when everyone is against it, trying to crown himself when that is not how that works, being outright hostile to Amaya despite the fact she has an actual claim to the throne and will actually challenge him. So is he a fool but everyone else is a pushover? Or is he really clever and everyone else is dumb?
This leads to what I think is the worst scene in the show. First Viren is like "Don't worry, Amaya. You can leave and I'll find the kids. And I know you know I am evil but I'll send my own kids to find them." Amaya rightfully responds with "Uh, how about no. My freckled boy Gren will do it." We then get a moment where she warns Gren and some soldiers that Viren will absolutely betray them and she leaves. And then Viren immediately, as in Amaya must be less than 100 feet away, replaces Gren with Soren and everyone just goes along with it. Hey Gren, just go get Amaya. Or slap Viren in some cuffs yourself.
Viren as schemer doesn't work partly because the rest of the show isn't built around intrigue but mostly because we have no idea what his goals, his desires, even what his values are. The show treats him like Littlefinger but with a heart, he is a guy who put his friend's soul into a bird because he loves him so much after all. But then he plans to kill said friend's sons. And sacrifice his own son if need be. And that is before he gets 'evil face' at the end for good measure. He is a mess of a character.
And it is no wonder that a lot of people instantly liked Amaya. Besides being a badass, I think the fact that she can only communicate via signing made it so that the creators had to make sure that her characterization was clear. Compared to everyone else she comes across as a fully realized character.
Random Thoughts:
- This show desperately needs a straight man within our core group.
- I like Claudia but that is almost exclusively because of the voice actress.
- I got used to the animation but there were still times when it would make me flabbergasted at the choppiness.
- The world being so boringly traditional in its makeup sure doesn't help.
- Why even introduce that cube of runes if you are going to spend so little time with it?
- Rayla's human impersonation was the one bit of humor that really worked for me. "Greetings, fellow humans! Human fellows! I sure do like hanging out with other humans and talking about things like money and starting wars." and "Hand disguise!" Pretty good.
- Episode 9 = I'm Ezran and I'm different, I don't fit in, and I can talk to animals and why wasn't any of this in the previous episodes?
- The dragon biting off Rayla's binding is the cheapest possible resolution to that problem imaginable.
She had a host of soldiers with her, anyone could hear a warning and let her know
Concerning Viren.
Given his actions and the fact that he's a wizard who uses magic that makes his eyes glow black I'm thinking that the whole empathy part of Viren was just pure and simple sociopathic manipulation. His entire motivation is recapturing the egg and he keeps hammering own and own about how it could become the most powerful thing in the world. I'm thinking his original plan was to use that power for his own goals, (going into Xadia), aka he's projecting and using that for fear mongering and manipulation. There are a lot of hints that indicate that he's done terrible things and was always off despite the first impression of being a morally grey character. Keeping everybody but his daughter in the dark the egg and telling everybody that the king destroyed it being the major red flag that he's been manipulating things for a long while.
It's no TLA... But there is so much potential.
Artstyle is so inconsistent though. There are moments it looks like Ghibli film and others where I feel like I'm looking at an episode of Reboot.
The highlight is definitely the different characters.
Artstyle is so inconsistent though. There are moments it looks like Ghibli film and others where I feel like I'm looking at an episode of Reboot.
The highlight is definitely the different characters.
I guess that makes more sense but:
When he was alone with uh... Claudia? Looking at the portrait of him and the king, he really did seem wistful and well meaning. I'm kinda sure that when he went back to the King he was thinking about how the King challenged him to give his own life and was going to offer to die via body swap. So when he yelled "I would've died for the king!" I thought he meant it.
I assumed it was Harrow's takedown that drove him the other direction so quickly but damn, Viren is going the other direction very quickly. Pure evil mad mage.
So maybe your theory is more logical but that's what I was thinking when watching. The speech in front of the portrait just sticks out to me though. It was oddly genuine and not performed for anyone, I feel.
I assumed it was Harrow's takedown that drove him the other direction so quickly but damn, Viren is going the other direction very quickly. Pure evil mad mage.
So maybe your theory is more logical but that's what I was thinking when watching. The speech in front of the portrait just sticks out to me though. It was oddly genuine and not performed for anyone, I feel.
Kinda like how Pedro stated earlier I suppose. He feels like two different people sometimes because of perhaps the necessity for him to be the villain?
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When the action is flowing, the animation is incredible. It's not bad otherwise, but there are a few slower-paced emotional moments that I feel are hindered a bit by choppy animation.
Everything else about the show is on-fucking-point so I can look past the few times where it doesn't look stellar. The character designs themselves, and the characterizations, are fabulous.
Everything else about the show is on-fucking-point so I can look past the few times where it doesn't look stellar. The character designs themselves, and the characterizations, are fabulous.
Remember that
He also told Claudio to choose her brother over the egg. Both the scenes with the sending the twins on their mission stared wholesome but turned into some real emotional manipulation by their end. There genuinely seems to be incredibly literal darkness behind the mask of a somewhat kind aging wizard.
The show makes it clear that he was conflicted on multiple parts in regards to the king. He gives no shits about the sons.
He specifically tells his son to kill two children so....like there's not caring, and there's "When you find the kids literally kill them." There's also he line Amaya has when she confronts him, about how he was waiting for his moment, and how she warned her soldiers and didn't fall for his attempt to seem empathetic. Makes me think there's much more that we don't know.
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I still think that following the speech in front of the portrait followed by resolving to do something was not initially malicious. The scenes were organized such that it seemed he reached the conclusion that the right thing to do was to offer his own life and that's hard to line up with the long term scheming. Problem being that this doesn't line up with how he went full evil mage right after just because he got scolded, which I think is what they were going for because he truly looked betrayed in more than "these pawns won't do as they say" way.
Wonder if he knew the king well enough that he knew he'd never go for it and was waiting for the opportunity during that convo.
WTF HAPPENED IN THAT THRONE ROOM
-Heavy implication that the king was turned into the bird given the reversal of Viren looking down and weirdly talking to it.
-But that doesn't explain what happened when the elves attacked after Callum left. He leaves in the middle of the battle and minutes later we see that the first seal has been unbinded indicating that someone killed the King, somehow the elves got through despite the majority of soldiers surviving the fight, where even was Viren when they captured the elf? There's something super fishy about that entire sequence of events that I'm thinking they'll touch on later.
-Heavy implication that the king was turned into the bird given the reversal of Viren looking down and weirdly talking to it.
-But that doesn't explain what happened when the elves attacked after Callum left. He leaves in the middle of the battle and minutes later we see that the first seal has been unbinded indicating that someone killed the King, somehow the elves got through despite the majority of soldiers surviving the fight, where even was Viren when they captured the elf? There's something super fishy about that entire sequence of events that I'm thinking they'll touch on later.
This is a really good post and puts into words a lot of things I felt about the season but couldn't quite put my thumb on, especially in regards to the humor and it all being the same for each character. And that's also why Amaya was ultimately the only character I actively really liked. She has a very clear (and cool) personality and never gets reduced down for the sake of a dumb joke delivery.
the show has areas it can improve upon primarily in the character writing and dialogue. If it can improve on that, it'd be a HUGE step up.
Just watched the first episode and the only thing that bothers me is the elf assassins accent. She's doing a Scottish one, but I'm Scottish and it sounds kind of fake and stilted, I'd be amazed if the actress was actually from Scotland. Tiny thing but, I quite like the show otherwise
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As a non-Scot it sounds great rofl - throwback to Gargoyles cartoon
It's too bad it's not authentic
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4037810/
She's from Victoria, BC
You know, as much as some people didn't like Korra, Bryke were able to create and build upon a really unique world. I like the characters in Dragon Prince, but the world just seems very generic right now.
When all the participants who made The Last Airbender were together, they created something amazing. Now that they're apart though, their flaws are starting to show more, with Korra and The Dragon Prince.
When all the participants who made The Last Airbender were together, they created something amazing. Now that they're apart though, their flaws are starting to show more, with Korra and The Dragon Prince.
Ah that's a shame. Honestly, she's not too far off but it's stuff that only Scottish people would notice really, the performance is good enough that I'll probably forget about it.
So after a week or two removed from watching this and now starting a rewatch of Avatar...
This show and its characters = forgettable. First seven episodes of Avatar with much less plot are better than this.
I just wish people would stop calling this a worthy successor or relating the two at all. It's just inaccurate.
This show and its characters = forgettable. First seven episodes of Avatar with much less plot are better than this.
I just wish people would stop calling this a worthy successor or relating the two at all. It's just inaccurate.
It's got a main voice actor and writer.
How can you not relate them?
It's all opinion. You can wish for it, but it doesn't change how people feel about it. The Dragon Prince instantly reminded me of Avatar, and I love the sense of adventure and character interactions thus far. The sense of adventure and character interactions/relations is what made Airbender for me. It has mostly everything about Airbender that I completely missed from Korra for example. The draw of the story isn't as great as Airbender for me, but everything else is there.
Animation is way below 24 fps. They tried to animated like Ghibli, which is more like 12 to 16. It looks really choppy in 3d.