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The current multiplayer environment punishes people who like more than one game
- Thread starter Deleted member 4482
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You're right - but many games are specifically built to trigger a fear of missing out now.
So you do recognize that developers are specifically designing their games to hook people in with the fear of missing out, instead of simply being fun.
It's predatory behavior to get players to spend money, just as loot boxes were.
I would say that most of these timed events are exploitative. "The only input needed is attention and time" - which is limited for most people.
It's even ruining single player games now. I found the way recent HITMAN games handled their timed "elusive targets" to be very exploitative.
There are certain reasons to have tied events and depending on the implementation I am not necessarily against it. But in the same notion I know that these things at their core are designed to be exploitative.
I know people hated it but back in the MHTri days they had event content on cycles and I really enjoyed it because it focused the community on doing event content as opposed to the shit tons of DLC they released in following games that was just an annoyance to get people to do.
I know people hated it but back in the MHTri days they had event content on cycles and I really enjoyed it because it focused the community on doing event content as opposed to the shit tons of DLC they released in following games that was just an annoyance to get people to do.
Unfortunately, this is often the easiest thing to do. It's much easier to lean in to progression systems, reward conditioning, etc instead of digging into the really difficult stuff -- e.g. 'finding the fun.'
I don't agree that developers who employ things like Battle Passes are specifically attempting to hook people with FOMO schemes. Again, many developers use systems like Battle Passes -- and all sorts of progression related systems -- to mask deficiencies in the core gameplay or game loop.
Care to elaborate on why most timed events are inherently exploitative? Just because they require a limited resource doesn't mean they're inherently exploitative.
Hey, this might be an interesting thread. Let's discuss things from a professional point of view as someone with actual industry experience.
Several posts later: predatory, exploitative and stuff. Never mind, maybe the next thread will be more sane. :)
It's kind of nice because so many games having it just numbs you to all of the hooks. I remember spending too much time in games where I wasn't having fun because I have to keep making progress and get the most out of it. Every game wants you to keep playing it to keep unlocking/seeing new stuff, so the ones that are most fun stand out
I'm playing a ton of Modern Warfare, might finish the battle pass, might not, but I'm sticking with that game because I have fun playing it.
I'm playing a ton of Modern Warfare, might finish the battle pass, might not, but I'm sticking with that game because I have fun playing it.
It's definitely preying on your FOMO, but luckily I think it's one of those things you just get over. Best way is to just choose one game you play regularly to engage with that stuff, and all the others just leave their progression and fomo mechanics behind. Once you break the cycle once it's easy to just look past it all.
They don't care if you want to play more than one game. They want you to play their game consistently because it makes them more money.
This isn't about what you want.
This isn't about what you want.
I mean that's precisely what they designed this shit around. They want you investing in their ecosystem based on predatory fomo tactics.
Stop giving them the time when they're clearly just trying to game your attention. This manipulative bullshit serves only them.
Stop giving them the time when they're clearly just trying to game your attention. This manipulative bullshit serves only them.
I think the thread title could probably be pared down to just 'the current environment punishes people.' There is a slow, tidal industry shift away from trying to produce enough content to feed an insatiable player base toward restricting content from an insatiable player base. Your time and attention now have a measurable, quantifiable market value, so if it were legal they would chain your ass to that chair and force you to look at their store page until you buy something, regardless of how much time or money you've already given them. The profits must grow, forever. And it will keep getting worse.
I have come around to the fact that this "predatory stuff" is required to keep MP games alive with an active player base. Look at how TF2 (the pioneer of a lot of the practices) is still going.
The positive of this is that you can hop on and play casually at any time, you just won't have the trendiest gear. This is better than having a dead MP.
The positive of this is that you can hop on and play casually at any time, you just won't have the trendiest gear. This is better than having a dead MP.
As someone who plays a lot of CoD and Rocket League I just don't care. Never purchased a single battle pass for anything. I play competitive games to get better at them and climb ranks, not to customise my avatar.
Some of yall are something else.... timed events are predatory? Preying on FOMO? Like how is that any different than when stores have sales on stuff? Is black friday predatory because of FOMO?
I hate the trend of grinding for unlocks in MP games. I miss the days off everything being usable day 1 (or just 1 weapon per class).
I legit just rotate between games like every 2 matches. I play single player games at night when I'm too tired to be competent in competitive games.
BF is a yearly occurring event lmao
With MP events you can be lucky if what you're missing out ob will ever come back before supports ends.
So much apologism in this thread. If it wasn't that important then why make events that raise FOMO in the first place? Reminds me of 'but it's just cosmetics'.
I'm only playing Gears 5 rn, so just one game and it's already... not that fun at times to put it mildly. I feel pressured to not play anything else. And I feel guilty for not playing Gears 4 on top of that, because I missed out on stuff there as well. Good job
So what if it's only once a year? It's FOMO, is it not? Basically every time a store has a sale it's FOMO. Costco takes it even a step further with it's "treasure hunt." They regularly rotate limited stock items that never come back. This is meant as a reward for regular shoppers and to encourage other shoppers to keep coming back.
It also causes players to have permanently missed out on content, providing them with a reason to no longer play the game. As I mentioned earlier, I booted up Rocket League after a long time of having not played it and saw a battle pass 20 days into the season. I can't unlock the pass any more (or it's a lot more difficult) because I'm late, so why engage with the progression system at all? And if I found the progression system to be important, I've missed out so why play the game any more?
As one of my favorites would say (who shall not be named):
Welcome to the world of "Liiiiiive seeeeeervices"*
*exluding actual service on all products
Welcome to the world of "Liiiiiive seeeeeervices"*
*exluding actual service on all products
It's not weird. All of these games have monetisation schemes and reward systems that play on the players fears of missing out. They skew the best rewards (e.g. the best cosmetic skins) towards players that invest a massive amount of time in the games. They offer no transparancy as to how that content will (if ever) be accessible for players that missed out.
Playing a small amount of each game does not mean that that player likes that game any less, than players that play that game dedicatedly. It simply means that you have varied tastes. Despite this, playing a small amount of each game leaves the player with the worst experience of each in terms of cosmetics and rewards.
I'm currently juggling Destiny 2, Modern Warfare, Crash Team Racing Nitro Kart, and Apex Legends.
I think the fear of missing out is important in getting people to engage with the current content but at the same time, you can have a system that relies on FOMO without absolutely preventing players from unlocking that content in the future. Crash Team Racing Nitro Fuelled does this well, as I'm always compelled to participate in the current season in order to get rewards because I know that if I miss them, I'll need to buy them with in-game currency afterwards.
Also related to what you were saying about it being a double edged sword, for me a big factor is also just not playing games with 'season 7' style battle passes. You look at games like Fornite and it's like 'season 9' and things like that, as a prospective player all I see there is that I've missed 8 seasons. That's not appealing, FOMO mechanics work because they emphasise that players will miss out if they don't play, but games like Fortnite and Apex Legends emphasise the content that has already been missed. I'm not sure what advantages there are to presenting it like that.
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I felt like this for a while. But I'm actually happy that a single game can give me enough things to do without having to jump around games. I still get a bit of fomo not playing other big releases but it's getting to a point where I don't really care that much. Especially considering a lot of other games aren't going anywhere.
Everyone is blaming OP's mentality when he's right. Every dev wants you to make their game your job, and it sucks. It affects more than just battle passes. It's a shit design trend, and I hope it goes away soon.
Yeah, also bad. But what's your point beyond whataboutism?
I think that makes it even worse when games use the same tactics as a fricking store XD
I guess it's difficult for me to relate with the OP, as I rarely experience FOMO, and I really don't care about cosmetics in games. The idea that someone's enjoyment of a game is dependent on the outfit their character is wearing just feels...weird. In the few multiplayer games I have played (Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike, Gwent, Faeria, Dota Underlords etc.), I never bothered with cosmetic items.
I also don't understand the 'gotta have them all' collector mindset. For me, objects (whether real or virtual) only hold utilitarian value, and I don't get sentimental or fond of them. I do get immensely fond of people and ideas, just not...things.
I guess OP's complaints might be valid for a lot of people who share OP's experiences, regardless of what I find personally relatable. As such, I believe I'm unable to contribute to this thread in any meaningful manner. I'll see myself out.
I'm so glad I've never cared about cosmetics. I think it's because I was into competitive multiplayer before all that shit, so it's always seemed like a bit of a joke to me.
I understand that cosmetic content doesn't motivate everyone, but I think it really does motivate a lot of people. That's why these monetisation models are so successful in the first place. Some of the cosmetics are really neat, I think. The evolving guns in Apex Legends, for instance, I like having those.
For me, it's not really the fact that I need every cosmetic, but the fact that I've missed out, and can never attain it again, that really puts me off for some reason. I suppose even though I don't care about having everything, I like the idea that if there's something I like I can work towards attaining it.
Yeah this is totally true!
One such thing that has got me recently is Forza Horizon 4 and the Bugatti Divo, I missed the announcement it was coming and now the opportunity to own that car is seemingly gone forever because I didn't play in season 15 and complete 50% of it, it's just gone with no chance of ever getting it.
turns me right off.
the same is with Call of Duty, luckily the weapons in this season pass were fairly low level (but the grind to get them is unreal) but I imagine the weapons will be higher tiers as we progress in through the year, that is then above cosmetics and they're game changing items.
One such thing that has got me recently is Forza Horizon 4 and the Bugatti Divo, I missed the announcement it was coming and now the opportunity to own that car is seemingly gone forever because I didn't play in season 15 and complete 50% of it, it's just gone with no chance of ever getting it.
turns me right off.
the same is with Call of Duty, luckily the weapons in this season pass were fairly low level (but the grind to get them is unreal) but I imagine the weapons will be higher tiers as we progress in through the year, that is then above cosmetics and they're game changing items.
But isn't that just...life? There are so many things we'd like from life, that we might never be able to have. Like, I might want to date a person who has zero interest in me. If she/he doesn't want to date me, there's nothing I can do to 'work towards' attaining it. There's a brand of chips I LOVE, and the company that used to make it has stopped doing that. Again, nothing to be done about it.
Of course, these little (and sometimes big) disappointments do bother all of us, but we just learn to get past them. Why not do that for games as well? Not being able to grind for a seasonal item won't really impact your life (or your gameplay) in any meaningful way. So it seems the best course of action would be to just shrug and move on.
Sorry if I come across rude or dismissive. I'm not trying to be either. Just wondering out loud.
It's not going away soon unfortunately. If it didnt make money, the companies would've stopped doing it.
Regarding op's mentality, they target exactly people with this kind of mindset, and big companies have teams of people tuning this shit out, and while it sucks, realizing that happens is the first step to just saying "fuck your bullshit practices" and go play something else.
Stuff like this is one of the reasons I rarely, if ever, play multiplayer games. I literally cannot remember the last MP game I played as I just don't have the time, patience or inclination to get good enough to either play at a comparatively competent level or engage in all the associated bullshit (Loot boxes, MTX, Battle Passes etc) that has crept it's way in there in there over the past gen or so.
I don't even care that much about hoarding cosmetics in general, but the whole FOMO design philosophy which saturates these games, constantly notifying and nagging you over having to play the game and do these specific tasks now or you'll miss your window of opportunity, adds such negative connotations to my experience that it actively dissuades me from playing them. It just doesn't feel like a leisure activity for fun any more.
I spin this like "The multiplayer environment punishes people who like more than one game". I've found this to be always the way.
With or without drip feed content, multiplayer games are basically without end - rewarding those who put hours in. We only have so much time to dedicate to any one title and multiplayer basically kills off your ability to play something else. If you mix and match up your games, you gradually get left behind on multiplayer games as they start to become dominated by incredibly skilled purists. So you have a choice - keep the pace or dump multiplayer.
With or without drip feed content, multiplayer games are basically without end - rewarding those who put hours in. We only have so much time to dedicate to any one title and multiplayer basically kills off your ability to play something else. If you mix and match up your games, you gradually get left behind on multiplayer games as they start to become dominated by incredibly skilled purists. So you have a choice - keep the pace or dump multiplayer.
I stopped playing MH World because of to many timed / exclusive events. I missed some weapons / armorsets and felt left behind. In the end i stopped playing MH World at all, although i played several hundred of hours of different MH titles.
The internet consensus on this has been that this is your own psychological problem to deal with.
I personally think that there is a line crossed regularly that unethically preys on people's compulsions. The examples are countless but my most controversial example is about the dangers of in-game achievements / trophies.
First, they are detrimental to immersion (a pop up in my game? umm..no thx). Adults should be able to choose to use them as not everyone is as vulnerable to compulsory completionism. I know some people enjoy them and are not affected negatively or tricked into joyless grinding. Not to mention one player's idea of grinding is another player's idea of fun.
But when it comes to kids, what purpose do they really serve?
Does a 10 year old today enjoy a game more than one from the 80s, 90s or mid 2000, which lacked them? Hell no!
Did kids not 100% games back then, with the help of guides, when they wanted to? Hell yes!
I am much more in favor of the pride that comes from winning in tournaments against human beings. Where actual humans hand you real trophies when you win.
I argue they benefit platform owners more than players, or even publishers.
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I felt the same way trying to do the tides of war every week in BFV. Eventually I just couldn't do it and had to give it up and honestly I don't give a shit anymore. I'd love to have access to everything but at the end of the day it's only a couple cosmetics. It's the same with MMO's and daily quests, dungeons, etc. Once you can kick the habit it's easy to not worry about it anymore.
I am not precisely aware of games your were quoting but others includes seasonal reset or special items lettin' you jump on the competition without being a free kill. And after a while wearing a well chosen basic outfit can make you appears more original than gear fashionistas.
Consider that your proximity and exposure to it has normalized these techniques, so that you no longer see it for what it is.
You said yourself that these games are now designed to maximize monetization and profitability by using techniques like the fear of missing out, but don't recognize that this is inherently predatory.
Absolutely. That's why it's becoming so prevalent, and why people need to push back against it.
Not all of them are, but most that I experienced have been.
Take the HITMAN games: these are single player games, but they add "elusive targets" once every week or two, that unlock items which are not just cosmetic, and cannot be obtained via other means. They even go as far as hiring celebrities to make the events more appealing.
This is designed to pressure people into buying the game as close to launch as possible so they don't miss out on that content, like they would if they bought it on sale later, and to keep influencers coming back to the game and promoting it.
Other games do things like only selling specific items in a limited time window; after that there's no way to get them again - and many don't even let you trade items with other players.
Not sure about Hitman 2, but with Hitman 1 they've re-released the elusive targets at least twice, so you've had 3 chances of getting them.
And of course devs want people to purchase the game as close to launch as possible, that's super obvious. They'd rather people purchase it at full retail price, rather than wait weeks or months for a discount. Saying people are "pressured" however is a bit of an exaggeration. It's really not a big deal if you miss out on some optional content.
As some one with OCD tendencies I agree with you but it's pushed me away more than anything. I've all but stopped playing destiny and get quick games in COD here and there. Most of my time has gone into my back log of games I'll probably never finish in my life time because of multiplayer games. Really enjoying Grim Dawn and Divinity Original Sin at the moment and glad I gave up that mentality.
That's the whole point. They don't want you to play any other game.
After being a Destiny loser for years and spending thousands of hours in 1 and 2 and expansions I realized I was letting so many good games pass me by because I didn't want to miss a week of rewards etc.
I stopped playing not long after the first awful expansions for Destiny 2 and never went back since.
These games are a bane on the industry and I've grown to resent them due to my time wasted. So much time wasted for stupid digital items that are useless not long after.
I can't ever touch one of these games again. Not Destiny types or Call of Duty types etc. They are designed to waste your time and keep you fixated on one game.
No thanks.
After being a Destiny loser for years and spending thousands of hours in 1 and 2 and expansions I realized I was letting so many good games pass me by because I didn't want to miss a week of rewards etc.
I stopped playing not long after the first awful expansions for Destiny 2 and never went back since.
These games are a bane on the industry and I've grown to resent them due to my time wasted. So much time wasted for stupid digital items that are useless not long after.
I can't ever touch one of these games again. Not Destiny types or Call of Duty types etc. They are designed to waste your time and keep you fixated on one game.
No thanks.
I failed those missions and the game removed them. Was I robbed and exploited because I was not a good player?
This entire thread is a cyclical bullshit. Everything can be boiled down to being exploitative:
• Discounts for purchasing the game
• Marketing to pressure you into buying the game
• Graphics to make the game look good and appealing
• Creating more content to boost the value of the game to attract more players
Yet, none of you geniuses have presented the alternative. Or, one did, who suggested that developers abandoning the game right after launch is the way to make multiplayer games.
How about just selling the game for $60 and doing some free updates?
The good thing about MHW is that all those timed quests are available again in big future seasonal events, like the current holiday event. So even though iceborne is the latest expansion and it has exclusive quests, you can still play all (or almost all) vanilla quests.