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OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
It isn't the end all be all but pretending that aesthetics are incidental to the game experience is absurd.
This too, especially in games like Destiny, where part of the core of the design is wearing or having certain things that say, "I was there when that happened." But if I'm just not in the mood to play Destiny for a bit, I'll never be able to get those things.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I really enjoy triple-A games but you're absolutely correct, and I'm shaking my head at the people defending this. Games lock most of their interesting stuff behind paid content or insane grinds, forcing you to do daily/weekly challenges, complete mindless grinds and whatnot. If you don't play regularly you miss out on content, playing 1 hour a day gets you far more progress than putting in 7 hours every Sunday. There's a lot of limited stuff and such you simply can not get to if you don't play tons, and people with a job or a life can't just do that for more than one game, in some cases like Fortnite even a single game can be overwhelming to say the least.

Yes, it's cosmetic - sometimes, because in games like Siege it's even extra classes. But the thing is, the core of the game is there, all the cool unlocks you used to be able to get by simply playing normally are now hidden behind timed grinds. Want them? Spend a lot or play a lot and regularly. In the past you also had some crazy grinds in some games, let's take the Dark Matter skins in Call Of Duty which had you complete ALL CHALLENGES for every single weapon and item. Sure, that was grindy, but you could do it on launch week or 3 years later. It took dozens of hours if not hundreds but it was feasible, the most badass and rare item was a challenge you could work on at your pace.
Now the best skins? Either play a lot in a couple weeks or pay fucktons. It's a horrible change that brings console games closer to the grindy F2P mobile titles. Games like Destiny helped normalize it, now everybody does it basically one way or another. It sucks, simple as that.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,794
Gotta be honest, can't agree there. You are basically saying that this content is only available to players who play our game at this time. If they can't, they lose out.

There is no good reason (from a game design standpoint) to do that. Letting players pick up old rewards later hurts no one. The only good reason to not do so is from a monetary perspective and not a game design one.

There are many, many good reasons from a game design point of view to do that. Game design directly ties to monetisation and profitability.

* Time-limited content gives more engaged players more reasons to play during said time periods.
* It brings back players that may have lapsed in the past, as it provides them with something new and fresh to earn.
* It incentivises players to spend money on grind boosts, currency boosts, progression shortcuts and similar things, providing an opportunity to make more money.
* It offers opportunities to create more non-standard content that may otherwise have hard time getting greenlit and invested in, such as event-themed items, content and events that do not fit as part of the regular in-game worlds and universes, and similar.

* Skill-gated content provides more ways for skillful players to distinguish themselves over players of lesser skills.
* It helps push skillful players to do their best even more, raising the bar regarding how competitive an experience can be.
* This can create social drama and social prestige opportunities for both the game systems and the players.

Can expand with a lot more game design reasons, but I have to go and annoy some people in Sea of Thieves now. :p
 

Aranjah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,185
I agree, OP. I have in particular been feeling this with Destiny more than ever since New Light dropped. I bought the battle pass with Shadowkeep because that's what I've always done in the past with the up-front season bundles and I didn't realize they were going in this new, time-gated direction, so I feel compelled to hit 100 in each season to at least earn access to the rewards I've already paid for. Once they get through the last season of the current battle pass, I might just be done with the game rather than buy the next pass and tie myself down again.

Locking content out of the game if someone doesn't get to it fast enough is dumb.

It does nothing but punish players.
Yep. This is really the worst thing. Content (not even, like, holiday events, where of course you expect the Christmas event to only run around Christmastime, but just normal game content) going away forever at the end of the season. At least with previous Destiny seasons, I can still go back and do those activities. I can go back and do the raid and eventually get the raid guns or the raid ship that I've missed out on until now, or whatever.

On a related note, earning cool cosmetics as a reward for doing things is literally part of the main gameplay loop, so of course the available methods for earning things has an impact on the gameplay, even if it doesn't directly, mechanically affect how you run and how you shoot. It affects what you choose to do with your time in the game in a given play session.

Get past your fear of missing out. Realize that all of these little rewards don't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. Life becomes far simpler when you don't care about these sort of things.
I "know" this, but it's easier said than done. I'm slowly but surely getting there, though, as evidenced by my posts like this one.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,633
South Central Los Angeles
You are a victim of your own mentality, the collector's/completionist mentality.

It's not simply "their own mentality."

Games are being designed to exploit this very basic urge human beings have. It's not like the OP is an outlier with a pathological compulsion to keep up. It's a near universal feature of the human condition and a common tactic of consumer exploitation across all kinds of products.
 
Last edited:
Dec 4, 2017
11,481
Brazil
But I feel guilty spending time playing any one game over the others with the battle passes going on in each of those first three games. I'll permanently miss weapons, armor, outfits, emotes, drop music, etc in games I love because I can't finish the battle pass in all of them and I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars a month to get started.
That is how they get us by the balls
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
I usually have to stick to a single game to be able to play at a decent level. Its hard to "git gud" at 5 different games at the same time. I have to pick one and stick with it to play competitively. When I jump around too much between 4 or 5 games I end up sucking at all of them. I'll usually pick 1 or 2 MP games and the rest of my gaming time is spent on SP.
 

Asriel

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,439
It's not simply "their own mentality."

Games are being designed to exploit this very basic urge human beings have. It's not like the OP is an outlier with a pathological compulsion to keep up. It's a near universal feature of the human condition and a common tactic of consumer exploitation across all kinds of products.

And yet, many (most?) people are able to resist this urge. I'm not so sure why it's difficult to simply be OK with missing out on things sometimes.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
Yeah I developed a completionist mindset and i need to force myself to just move on and play the game like a normal person. Especially when they are unlocks that aren't super cool and I will never use.

I like the way Battlefield V does it. If I play another game for a while and come back I'll go back through and look for weapons that catch my eye and just purchase them with my in-game points. Super easy, no grinding, and I can pick and choose though I think camos are unavailable. I have my special camos for max ranking the classes so I'm happy with those.

I think Call of Duty does it the worst. In Black Ops 4 for most of it's time out you couldn't get the weapons you missed after that battle pass was up. It was only until they released Weapon Bribes that you could but those would also give you variants of weapons you had so it was somehow even worse. MW's battle pass is very long and it gives away weapons which I don't like. It's too early to tell if you will be able to obtain weapons in a different way.

Now that I'm back into WoW it's hard to juggle that, battle passes, and the single player games I like to play. Sometimes you just have to say, I don't need this. It's a good skill to have.
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
I'd rather play 20 different games for 6 months than 1 online game.

unfortunately I just don't have time for online games.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
contrary to what many in here are saying, i agree with OP to a certain extent

today, games are designed to exacerbate and prey on your FOMO. games will include time-limited events, time-limited cosmetics, etc. to induce you to play regularly. it isn't enough anymore to offer a good enjoyable game to play in and of itself as there is too much competition.

two examples in recent memory -
Overwatch has done seasonal events since the start, but those events and unlockable cosmetics would always return annually -- now, they are doing time-limited skins that you have to unlock by playing the event. if you miss it you're out of luck.
Before Season 8 of Destiny 2, everything in the game has always been available. However, Destiny 2 now includes quests, weapons, armors, triumphs, titles, and even activities that can only be obtained or played during a particular season.

the answer is to stop caring less, but for the compulsive among us that can be hard
With how long some of those skins have been gone without coming back, I suspect they're gonna be bundled with OW2.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
I only play Rocket League, but even then, I'm still rocking mostly the same cosmetics since season 1. Collecting the cosmetics just isn't what I find fun about the game.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,939
it is ok to not get the items from the videogame. people whipping themselves up into fomo are just torturing themselves over silly videogames -- play the game if you like it, get the things you get when you play it, and dont worry about anything else.

This stuff is absolutely designed to be predatory, but theres no reason to work yourself up into being even more preyed upon. just ignore the shit and play the game.
If it's designed to be predatory, then why are we assuming being preyed on is a decision? I can't control my hyper-obsessiveness, I hop from game to game because I can't stick to just one, and I'm also punished for it. I'm literally diagnosed with several disorders that I can't just run from, and it's frustrating how many people make it out to be your fault for feeling this way.

I'll grind hard for week, drop a game for weeks then grind hard for a week then drop it again. I'm no stranger to grinding. But forcing me to grind within a time limit or that shit's gone, is not fun. And it's really not fun how much people on this site immediately act like you're victimizing yourself for wishing to not have to deal with this crap on a hobby. I shouldn't be having to get over it, I literally play games because the real world doesn't accommodate me and it's frustrating seeing games go that direction because megacorps want even more money and discovered it's really easy to prey on people who are weak.
 

Moist_Owlet

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
4,148
I tried playing RB6 siege this week and got yelled at and team killed for picking rook. The community is killing multiplayer games.
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
Companies definitely do it on purpose. They wanna weaponize FOMO to become the only GAAS you care about. It's a relatively quick way to try and monopolize people's attention. If you're addicted to only one game there's a higher chance you buy that game's lootboxes.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,306
That's right, if your going to play multiplayer it's best to just stick to 1 multiplayer game, I chose smash as my 1
 

Asriel

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,439
If it's designed to be predatory, then why are we assuming being preyed on is a decision? I can't control my hyper-obsessiveness, I hop from game to game because I can't stick to just one, and I'm also punished for it. I'm literally diagnosed with several disorders that I can't just run from, and it's frustrating how many people make it out to be your fault for feeling this way.

I'll grind hard for week, drop a game for weeks then grind hard for a week then drop it again. I'm no stranger to grinding. But forcing me to grind within a time limit or that shit's gone, is not fun. And it's really not fun how much people on this site immediately act like you're victimizing yourself for wishing to not have to deal with this crap on a hobby. I shouldn't be having to get over it, I literally play games because the real world doesn't accommodate me and it's frustrating seeing games go that direction because megacorps want even more money and discovered it's really easy to prey on people who are weak.

But this is literally what you're doing, you're making yourself the victim because you're not getting some thing you want and it doesn't accommodate your needs personally. The fact that gamers seemingly has such an acute fear of FOMO in gaming is mind boggling.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,212
It's all about getting you to play less of other games by hogging your attention with time-limited events, dailies, weeklies, battle passes, etc. The FOMOdel. That way you have more to spend on your GAAS game of choice. I'm sure it works to get engagement up overall, but all it does for me is make me more anxious once I start getting behind the curve, so now I just stop playing more often than not. When I was still trying to keep up with Destiny 2 content, it would eat up like half my weekly gaming time. During events, that would be all I'd play. I'm glad I at least didn't burn a bunch of cash at the end of seasons to get items that I wanted but went out of rotation. Spending way too much on League of Legends already knocked some sense into me.
 

EchoChamber

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,489
And it's just feels the game just want more money, I already have given you 60 bucks why do you want more?


They don't just want more money they want all the money.
 

Deleted member 46489

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
1,979
It's not simply "their own mentality."

Games are being designed to exploit this very basic urge human beings have. It's not like the OP is an outlier with a pathological compulsion to keep up. It's a near universal feature of the human condition and a common tactic of consumer exploitation across all kinds of products.
I'm not sure who you were trying to reply to but the words in the quote aren't mine.
 

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,421
From what I'm reading here, all I'm getting from this is that its designed to get more money from players. Not necessarily an evil thing, its a product after all game developers need to keep the lights on.

But what I'm not seeing a lot of is "This is done this way to make the game better"

* Time-limited content gives more engaged players more reasons to play during said time periods.
True, but outside of monetary reasons, Why do they *need* to play during this time?

* It brings back players that may have lapsed in the past, as it provides them with something new and fresh to earn.
Even without making it timed, people that lapsed would still come back if you make the content good. Wouldn't you agree that its better to bring players back because the additional content is good, vs the fact that its time limited?

*It incentivises players to spend money on grind boosts, currency boosts, progression shortcuts and similar things, providing an opportunity to make more money.
Of course, nothing wrong with that. But again, I'm looking for how its good for the game itself.

Of all the counterarguments you had here, this is the only one I feel Actually helps the game itself

* It offers opportunities to create more non-standard content that may otherwise have hard time getting greenlit and invested in, such as event-themed items, content and events that do not fit as part of the regular in-game worlds and universes, and similar.

Enjoy your Sea of Thieves! I appreciate hearing the reasoning directly from the horses mouth.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
But this is literally what you're doing, you're making yourself the victim because you're not getting some thing you want and it doesn't accommodate your needs personally.
So playing Call of Duty, for example, which pops up the entire battle pass with a big BUY button after every single match, is the players choosing to be the victim?
 

Asriel

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,439
That's correct. And also besides the point. You can be an expect fisher who knows the right bait and lures or whatever that drive fish wild...that don't mean you expect to catch every single damn fish in the lake. Like come on.

How is that beside the point when it addresses why people can deal with the issues are dealing with? And that analogy makes no sense in comparison to the conversation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
It's not simply "their own mentality."

Games are being designed to exploit this very basic urge human beings have. It's not like the OP is an outlier with a pathological compulsion to keep up. It's a near universal feature of the human condition and a common tactic of consumer exploitation across all kinds of products.

Then we uncovered the shocking revelation that making more content for games is... a business practice to increase engagement. It is not the universal feature, it is something that most people can ignore, otherwise every MMORPG player would strive for everything, and every MTG player would attempt for the all cards collection. The whales are funding majority of mobile games and... I am fine with this.

What is the alternative?
• Everything is free and developers just make content forever on the imaginary funds
• Everything is paid and no progression is rewarded
• No new content, enjoy vanilla game

I really want someone to respond with the alternative which would be better for the community.
 

Deleted member 16365

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,127
This isn't new if you're a trophy or achievement enthusiast. The first Gears of war required hundreds of hours of MP for one achievement. It's gotten worse with every subsequent title in the series until 4, I'm unsure if 5 has a Seriously achievement, I haven't played it.

Add this to the fact that Gears has always come out in q4 during the busiest time in gaming.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
Not sure why there are so many saying


What law got enacted that said they need to design like that? I'd love for you to answer that, because outside of some sort of mandate this is a nonsensical response.

People enjoy your games
They are committed to your game
If you can you have to provide as much content as possible.

This is not a law but common sense, if they want to let people playing their games they need content.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,840
This isn't new if you're a trophy or achievement enthusiast. The first Gears of war required hundreds of hours of MP for one achievement. It's gotten worse with every subsequent title in the series until 4, I'm unsure if 5 has a Seriously achievement, I haven't played it.

Add this to the fact that Gears has always come out in q4 during the busiest time in gaming.
That's not the same thing. You can still grind that achievement today. You haven't permanently missed out on it like is the case with battle passes today.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Then we uncovered the shocking revelation that making more content for games is... a business practice to increase engagement. It is not the universal feature, it is something that most people can ignore, otherwise every MMORPG player would strive for everything, and every MTG player would attempt for the all cards collection. The whales are funding majority of mobile games and... I am fine with this.

What is the alternative?
• Everything is free and developers just make content forever on the imaginary funds
• Everything is paid and no progression is rewarded
• No new content, enjoy vanilla game

I really want someone to respond with the alternative which would be better for the community.

Simple, let games fall to players and interested parties for server space to keep online active then work on your next project. The need to keep servers running is created by the desire to have a service to sell on top of the base game. We had unlocks way before we had engagement driven GaaS games. Even single player games without MTs have somehow made unlocks a thing. So did many past MP fanes prior to the major GaaS push.
 

Asriel

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,439
So playing Call of Duty, for example, which pops up the entire battle pass with a big BUY button after every single match, is the players choosing to be the victim?

It's basic knowledge that video games are companies that strive to make money, no matter what developers may otherwise tell. But the infantilization of gamers and the complete absolution of personal responsibility of gamers in this forum is something else.
 

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,397
D2 is all I need for this. It's actually the only MP focused game I really play with any regularity, despite owning many fighting games that I legitimately enjoy. I have a few mobile games I don't want to miss things in, but I ended up paring those down to 3, with one that gets played regularly and thew other 2 I alternate which one I spend other time on. If I start getting burned out or bored on one, I switch to the other. I'll still do my daily login rewards, but that's about it until I flip back to playing it mostly regularly.

The real thing that a lot of people need to do: excise FOMO from your lives. If it actually matters, then do it, if it doesn't matter, who cares? Yeah it's a cool emote/skin/track/ship/whatever, but in the end if it's really just cosmetic don't worry about it. The D2 community keeps bitching about the bright dust economy, but its kind of okay where it is if only because there's enough to buy something once in a while, but not every single thing every time it's available. There are other problems with Eververse, IMO, but the BD economy really isn't one of them.
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,960
FOMO is profitable and you're just a number for publishers. It's hard because the games are designed to exploit and drain you as much as possible, but you have to overcome that mentality.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
People enjoy your games
They are committed to your game
If you can you have to provide as much content as possible.

This is not a law but common sense, if they want to let people playing their games they need content.

No, you don't really. Apex dropped out from trying to keep up with fortnite. People still play it. The issue the op has stems from profit maximization strategies, not player enjoyment. Limited time availability of rewards is proof enough of this concept.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
It's basic knowledge that video games are companies that strive to make money, no matter what developers may otherwise tell. But the infantilization of gamers and the complete absolution of personal responsibility of gamers in this forum is something else.
personal responsibility

there's that special phrase. bye!
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
No, you don't really. Apex dropped out from trying to keep up with fortnite. People still play it. The issue the op has stems from profit maximization strategies, not player enjoyment. Limited time availability of rewards is proof enough of this concept.

Apex released a poor first season and they learned, the third season was well received and Respawn is slowly ramping up.
Yes people still play it because there still content being made and released, it's not like Respawn stopped releasing events, skins and shit.

Mordhau was released, sold 1 million copies but devs were not able to release content and fix issues, the results? Now it is a forgotten game.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Yeah I usually have one or possibly two Multiplayer games I mess with. When it comes to multiplayer stuff I 1000% have FOMO. I know it's stupid but I'm such a sucker for fun cosmetics. I spent way too much on Fortnite skins and I'm loosely trying to keep up with Destiny 2 as well. I debated buying the new Call of Duty but then just decided not to because I didnt want to feel like I had to keep up with the Season.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
It's not apples to apples, but good luck finding 7 players on the 360 in 2020 and that's if the servers are even still up.
This is such an extreme case though. I'm not asking for everything to last forever. I understand that time takes everything eventually. I just want to be a little more at peace while playing the games I already bought for the time I want to play them. Time-limited game design as short as everything is now feels more adversarial than rewarding.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
It's a bit of an arms race. The game that doesn't include all these retention features is the one that loses out.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
They want you to feel like this OP. That's the entire point of this disgusting FOMO exploitation shit.
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
I don't disagree at all. All of these battle passes command full attention and it blows. I solve this by playing what I want and knowing my limits as to what I can juggle at once. I had a bunch of missteps but I'm entirely under control now.
 

kai3345

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,441
So playing Call of Duty, for example, which pops up the entire battle pass with a big BUY button after every single match, is the players choosing to be the victim?
someone should make an edit of that tyler the creator cyberbullying tweet but for this lol

if you don't have the willpower to not click on a big, flashy advertisement, because it is so big and flashy then there might be deeper issues at play here
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
If it's designed to be predatory, then why are we assuming being preyed on is a decision? I can't control my hyper-obsessiveness, I hop from game to game because I can't stick to just one, and I'm also punished for it. I'm literally diagnosed with several disorders that I can't just run from, and it's frustrating how many people make it out to be your fault for feeling this way.

I dunno dude, I can't speak to your life experience and I appreciate you sharing it. I don't mean to be dismissive, but as somebody who's like, basically mentally healthy, if a game gives me the slightest twinge of compulsion I never play it again in my life.

You know how best to deal with the struggles you encounter, but from OP's posts they seem to be more of an appropriate target for my advice.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
It's a bit of an arms race. The game that doesn't include all these retention features is the one that loses out.

Exactly and several games suffered from this.

Mordhau had a big ass debut on Steam, 1 million copies sold, but the devs were not able to capitalize on the success and release new content, now it is a forgotten game.