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Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,353
First, before I say anything else, I want to stress that I realize cross-generation gaming has existed for a long time. The SNES had games that were basically NES games. Sometimes there were two versions of the game, basically identical. The Playstation had games that were in development for the SNES, and that was a massive shift in resources from 2D to 3D. The first generation of HD had so many basic, HD remasters that we barely play that stuff now since we realize what a cash grab it was.

However, what I'm talking about is a unique situation to the PS4>PS5 and XB1-XBSX generation, which is that console developers aren't acknowledging the generational shift other than to put out press releases and patch notes. Playstation 5 exists apart from PS4 but most "PS5 games" are PS4 games with more settings, where the Xbox situation is even more confusing because there are seemingly more options to bring these last-gen. games into the new era, yet no distinction in labeling the games.

There is also no "winding down" period in sight where console manufacturers would clearly talk about how their development for one platform would end and another one would begin before this generation. It seems that for gamers, buying one console gets you a PC-like experience of upgrading your graphics card to play the games that work already.

The Xbox Series S makes this clearer, as this is technically a next generation machine targeted at lower resolutions and will play the most demanding games released over the next years. I can't imagine any developer making a game that locks it out. Certainly Microsoft wouldn't approve of this. Notably, games on this less expensive alternative seem to run great.

The Playstation 5 has some games planned for PS5, and only PS5 sure, but my comment is not that developers are not making games specifically for these systems. Gamers deserve to play games on a cheap system and an expensive system.

My question concerns what these blurred boundaries between generations and versions will lead to in terms of
  1. Hardware revisions
  2. Finally ending the previous generation's support and when that happens
  3. Long-term sales for all categories

I know Microsoft is selling itself as a service rather than a console so perhaps they don't care as much as they once did, but I can't imagine they'd be happy unless the Series line (or their successors) outsell the XBO line. Similarly, Sony is in a difficult spot of having a huge what, 120 million units sold to repeat.

So where do you see us in 5 years? What will play what? Is what's happening now good or bad for the industry?
 
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Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,380
Houston, TX
It's fine for the first year or so, especially since not everyone's gonna have access to the new consoles right away. But it'll get to a point where the old systems are holding the new ones back. While true, there are a lot of people with the old systems, it becomes a question of how many of those people are buying new games on said systems. We kinda saw this with the 3DS after the Switch came out. Despite there being a ton of 3DSes out there, 3DS game sales dropped like a rock after the Switch came out. I'm not sure how close this analogy is to the current situation regarding the PS5 & XSX|S, but I do see it getting closer to that going forward.

Plus we have to account for games that are supported with DLC in the long term, where having to account for the old systems will become a bigger pain in the ass as time goes on.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
It just 'is'. Same as it was last gen. Look at most of the big games from 2014 (the year after the PS4 and Xbox One released). It was mostly crossgen titles still, same as 2021 will be this time around.

Destiny, Shadow or Mordor, Far Cry 4, Alien Isolation, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2 etc...

I think it's just a reality of development cycles. Games take years to make.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,380
Houston, TX
It just 'is'. Same as it was last gen. Look at most of the big games from 2014 (the year after the PS4 and Xbox One released). It was mostly crossgen titles still, same as 2021 will be this time around.

Destiny, Shadow or Mordor, Far Cry 4, Alien Isolation, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2 etc...

I think it's just a reality of development cycles. Games take years to make.
Exactly, you never know how well the new systems are going to do at that point during development. So obviously the first year or so will be filled with cross generation games, & that's fine. As I just mentioned, people need more time to be able to get the new systems.

But given how well the new consoles are doing, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more developers double down on next-gen going into 2022 & beyond.
 
OP
OP
Speevy

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,353
It just 'is'. Same as it was last gen. Look at most of the big games from 2014 (the year after the PS4 and Xbox One released). It was mostly crossgen titles still, same as 2021 will be this time around.

Destiny, Shadow or Mordor, Far Cry 4, Alien Isolation, Titanfall, Forza Horizon 2 etc...

I think it's just a reality of development cycles. Games take years to make.

Right, but by your timeline 2027 (?) will have mostly games for our systems, but what are our systems at this point? Does Xbox Series S run all these games? Does Xbox One X?
 

SpartyCrunch

Xbox
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,499
Seattle, WA
I think it's a good thing when developers can make more money by targeting 150+ million consoles instead of just a small fraction of that.

Not being able to make money would have pretty negative long-term effects.

But that's just, like, IMO
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
Right, but by your timeline 2027 (?) will have mostly games for our systems, but what are our systems at this point? Does Xbox Series S run all these games? Does Xbox One X?

I'd guess that, assuming the new consoles sell at a similar rate to how they have done in the past and the generational transition follows a similar rate, we'll just see similar things happen. Come 2022 we'll be regularly seeing Xbox Series/PS5 only titles.

Obviously we're in a different world at the moment because of COVID delays but I imagine we'll at least be aiming for a similar transition?

What makes you think we'll be seeing major games in 2027 that still target Xbox One? We're already seeing MS announce Series only games like Flight Sim and Forza etc.
 

Mr. Gold

Member
Jul 1, 2019
725
To be honest, I personally don't like it but I understand it. I kinda wish developers would be more honest about what is cross-gen and what isn't. Spider-Man:MM is an example where instead of getting hyped up for a new Spider-Man game that's next gen, you have a game that is hampered by PS4 hardware. People are still guessing about GoW:R.

The emphasis on cross-gen has actually been good for me where I am kinda happy I didn't spend $750 CAD on a PS5. I can wait and see more without missing out too much.
 

SeeingeyeDug

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,004
To be honest, I personally don't like it but I understand it. I kinda wish developers would be more honest about what is cross-gen and what isn't. Spider-Man:MM is an example where instead of getting hyped up for a new Spider-Man game that's next gen, you have a game that is hampered by PS4 hardware. People are still guessing about GoW:R.

The emphasis on cross-gen has actually been good for me where I am kinda happy I didn't spend $750 CAD on a PS5. I can wait and see more without missing out too much.

To be fair, a lot of these sequels likely started development as PS4 games before the PS5 hardware was even finalized. Horizon 2, Spider-Man MM.

They made a good decision at least having Demon Souls as something showcasing the new hardware only.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,764
It has never been an issue before and devs have been murky about differences between versions in the past, consumers just always assume next gen versions are best. I get it that it could be better but I doubt it impacts next gen in any bad way
 

Deleted member 63122

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 16, 2020
9,071
If we think about it, it really affects nothing. Devs are still getting used to new hardware, so " they can't squeeze" everything about the new console. In every gen look at the late games and compare them to the old games, the difference is night and day.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
Truthfully, I didn't realize that. Do these game have separate box logos?

They haven't realised any boxart yet. But they'll probably just be missing the 'Xbox One' part from the little black banner. Xbox games are Xbox games, they all have the same box style.

91SeWzeXqsL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 

rntongo

Banned
Jan 6, 2020
2,712
Yeah this is the first time I haven't been impressed by launch games in terms of graphics despite the hw being extremely impressive. Its not economically easy to launch with so many next gen as it was in the past but Sony is doing its best. I think MSFT is trying to transition to cloud gaming so they're going to get some things right and some things wrong. On the other hand Sony has really done some impressive work with their roadmap and seems to be bringing out the big guns this year. Its like the PS2 all over again. They have all these AAA games releasing in 2021 so you can imagine how good their sales will be:

  1. Returnal
  2. Gt7
  3. God of War Ragnarok
  4. Horizon Forbidden West
  5. Ratchet & Clank
I think we'll finally see the real transition to this new gen and away from the cross gen with these games. On the other hand, MSFT will finally be launching the new Halo and I think they've become more aware that they need to to release real next gen games. So most likely Halo Infinite will be a showcase of the Series X graphical prowess and will move us away from the cross gen stuff as well. I'm enjoying my Series X because I have a huge backlog but by mid of this year that won't be the case. And I don't see any difference between a One X and a Series X atm but no doubt the hw is out of this world. I also don't like this PC like feel of console gaming that you pointed out. I want to see real high quality next gen titles running at stable framerates.

I honestly don't like the idea of a Series S. Resolution plays a huge role in terms of gaming. And every generation I can remember had a resolution range. Releasing a 1080p console alongside a 4K console just doesn't sit right. Especially with how 4K displays have already become ubiquitous and dominating the market. It's like if the PS4 and Xbox One launched with a 480p console version. We'll have to see how it holds up but it seems Sony is going to be the one pushing the envelope in terms of graphics despite the Series X having the better hw.

But with regards to how this affects games in 5 years? I think the 10th generation will be around the corner and will simply have a clearer focus on services from both companies. So BC will be standard for either system, hw console sales will still remain but there will be growth as well in cloud streaming. I think the cross gen window will be shorter and only sports games and other small titles will have cross gen games for more than a year after the 10th gen console launch. But yes cross gen games are still going to be a thing but likely better managed.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
I do wonder at what point people start making Indie games, which might not need the power, for the new gen only. There isn't really any need for most roguelikes or arty platformers to need to be on the new hardware, and the new hardware can play last generation games. But from a marketing standpoint, at some point in time being a last-gen game is going to be a huge negative, even if it runs perfectly fine.
 

rntongo

Banned
Jan 6, 2020
2,712
I do wonder at what point people start making Indie games, which might not need the power, for the new gen only. There isn't really any need for most roguelikes or arty platformers to need to be on the new hardware, and the new hardware can play last generation games. But from a marketing standpoint, at some point in time being a last-gen game is going to be a huge negative, even if it runs perfectly fine.

I think The Ascent is similar to what you're talking about. For such games Gamepass is going to be a must have.
 

Litigator

Member
Oct 31, 2017
332
So where do you see us in 5 years? What will play what? Is what's happening now good or bad for the industry?

I see it the same as 5 years from the start of the last gen. PS4 and XBO will be discontinued just like PS3 and 360 were. User bases will get established for the new consoles. Publishers will eventually only make games for the current generation of hardware, and leave the old hardware to die.

"What's happening now" is kinda the same thing that happened at the start of last generation. Titles were largely cross-gen for the first little bit.
 

Flygon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,377
It's not really been an issue for PC.

Even my GTX 470 had to stop being useful someday.