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Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,513


These are my attempts at Stormy Ascent earlier this week (did it yesterday but didn't record it).

There are a lot of failures in these runs, but rarely ever did it feel like it wasn't my fault, because I'd rushed or panicked. The general platforming is incredibly precise, which is something you don't really get with a lots of platform games these days.
 

_Aaron_

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,216
I have it on PC though and it plays great at 60 fps. I haven't noticed any input lag. I enjoy it overall. Crash 3 is definitely my favourite. Crash 1 + 2 levels are a lot more punishing.

The hitbox/collider issues are annoying, especially since the behaviour is different from the original games.

I tried the trilogy on my dad's PS4 and it is a noticeably worse experience with the lower framerate.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,227
Just because the game clowned you in front of your kid doesn't mean the game is bad. Its arguably flawed but still a blast to play and has some of the best level design in the genre

Also... rock solid 30fps makes it one of the worst platformers? I assume you never touched any of the genre-defining games on N64 then
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
I don't think Crash 1 is a very good game, but 2 is fantastic and 3 is pretty great. That's my take.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,487
And you are trying to tell me you aren't personally offended by this? Lol.

There's no need to "challenge" my "argument" since it's just my opinion which obviously isn't based on facts. It can be a game that is amazing to you, I will still write it off as mediocre at best for me, which I maybe would have enjoyed over 20 years ago. There's many games that I loved in the 90s but just can't play today for various reasons.

It doesn't mean your taste is inferior to mine.
why do the people who write posts like "i guess the people who like this game just have poopy buttholes & thats why they think its good" always do this overdramatic just my onion shit when someone points out their clownshoes lmao
 

Mantrox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,911
I loved the visual work they did with these games, they are still very good, but at as an avid player of the originals, the criticisms you mentioned did diminish my enjoyment.

I wasn't a big fan of 30fps, but it's tolerable. The input lag is what bothers me the most.
In the original games, the hit boxes always felt a bit larger than the characters themselves, but the crisp controls alowed me to get a feeling for the sweet spot and be able to adapt quickly.

In the remakes, the input lag just throws that balance off.
I still had a bunch of fun with the first one. Played it from start to finish several times.
One of the worst designed? That's a no, just a big N O; and i don't see the need for these sensational thread titles.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,097
I swear 90% of peoples issues with the platforming is that Crash has a bit of acceleration time before reaching max speed, and you need max speed for the jumps. Way too many people messing up The High Road trying to do a stand-still jump to make the gaps and falling short because of it. It becomes espicially obvious when you do the Relic Runs how when you are going at full speed, you make the jumps all the time.

Could it have been made easier by making Crash accelerate up to max speed faster? Sure, that can't be argued. Maybe About Time even does that. But it is accurate to how the original games were designed as well.

If it was poorly designed, getting the gold and platinum relics would be nigh impossible. And my complete Gold/Platinum Relic collection says otherwise to that front.

I enjoyed how they even brought the Glitched Slide Jump back in 2 as well to do skips you wouldn't normally expect you could do.
 

Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,513
One of the worst designed? That's a no, just a big N O; and i don't see the need for these sensational thread titles.

Again, I find it incredibly frustrating that Era gets a free pass to just throw up a thread to shit on this series whenever it likes.

It's as if there are swathes of users on this forum that just cannot come to terms with people what enjoy this series of games, and feel compelled to convince them they're wrong.
 
OP
OP
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,624
I think a good many of you in this thread skimmed the OP or didn't read it at all.

I'm not "hating" on Crash. In fact, I love Crash and am very much hoping that Crash 4 is great. It's specifically the N. Sane Trilogy that I think has essentially game-ruining issues with it's input lag and collision detection. It completely fails at the most important aspect of a platformer, which is being fun to control and responsive.

It's fine if some of you didn't mind the input lag or other issues, but let's not dismiss my criticisms as blind hatred for an IP or character. I love 3D mascot platformers. All of them.
 

KiNolin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,296
Didn't feel bad or cheap to me at all. But then again, (thankfully) I can't comprehend the FPS police at all. And as a retro fan I sure as fuck don't want to.

Also, since some people don't know that, the first two games are completely designed around precise digital input, you aren't supposed to use analogue.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
That's a very informative post, but I think you missed the point. This is not about Crash/Coco not making a jump, or about Mario 64 or games of that time. This is about a remake made in 2017 that introduces problems not present in the original games. Here's what's going wrong with the collision in these videos:
  • In "Pill Collision 2", Crash stands still, jumps without moving left or right and still slips off the platform they were standing on before.
  • In "Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy: Bullshit hitbox", Coco stands next to a crate and tries to jump on it. Like in this picture, the bottom of the capsule collider barely collides with the crate, but as she is mostly off the platform, it pushes her further off. The horizontal momentum from it pushing her off causes her to slide back a long distance and fall into the pit.
  • In "Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy has good hitboxes", in a 2D section of the level, Crash is barely in front of a turtle (i.e. depth/distance from the camera - note his shadow vs the turtle's), causing his capsule collider to slide off of its back further toward the camera. This happened to me several times as well before I realized that in this game, it matters whether Crash is more toward the front, the back or the middle of the platform... in a 2D section, where you can barely see the differences. This wasn't a problem in the originals, as Crash didn't slide off everything.
How are these problems not inherently unfair? Do you actually think all this was intentionally designed this way?

The other 3 videos were related to obvious graphics/(instakill) collider mismatches that are everywhere in these remakes. Considering they redid the graphics and collision from scratch for the remakes, don't you think that Mario 64 comparison is a little irrelevant? (besides this issue being much more prevalent in Crash N.Sane Trilogy than Mario 64 -- even though I agree that Mario 64 has its fair share of issues).


You're absolutely right about Crash's difficulty being a huge factor in this. A game with more than 1HP (usually) would get away with this more easily. Because of this, precision has always been super important in Crash. But the N. Sane Trilogy lacks that, shown by how the games are full of fatal graphics/collider mismatches like in the videos, and how you can still jump when Crash's model is already off the platform, as you mentioned (this is again an unintended consequence of the capsule collider, not an actual feature. If it was a feature, the designers would have been clever enough to add in an animation cue when you start slipping off a platform -- instead Crash's running animation continues as normal in midair).

It genuinely seems that the remake devs just didn't think about this problem much. For example: the rounded capsule collider used for Crash in N.Sane Trilogy is the default collider used in many engines. This is the default because most modern games do not require precision platforming. Games that do usually use a box (which would match Crash 1's generally blocky level design and 4 directional movement) or a cylinder (for 3D movement) --as long as it's flat at the bottom. In your Mario 64 screenshots, Mario's collider is exactly that. If Mario had a capsule collider, he would slide off platform edges just like Crash and the game would not be as beloved for its smooth controls as it is.


In the N.Sane Trilogy (at least, in the PS4 version that I played), it absolutely is the norm that you you get hit by things or fall off platforms where it feels unfair, and for many people, it did undermine the entire game. It is sad then to see so many people here dismiss these obvious flaws as frustrations with the difficulty. Good old "git gud" attitude.

The reason I don't see it as inherently unfair, is because if you land two feet on the platform, you will always always stay on the platform. I know that it's different in the original but it's not inconsistent in this game either. Heck, this game even gives you a fair degree of forgiveness, letting you land with Crash half off the platform and you'll still make it. It's only when you have the majority of Crash's model off of the platform that you'll find he slips off.

The hitbox issues with enemy AI were present in the original games, that's why I raised that comparison with Mario 64 there. Perhaps not the exact same hitboxes, but throughout the original Crash games you will find instances where it doesn't look like the attack or enemy should have hit you. It's not exclusive to the remaster, or games of that era.
 

Deleted member 25140

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,076
I couldn't play it because of the hit boxes, I was determined to beat them in order and Crash 1 was just so unfun it soured me on the whole experience
 

Yrch

Member
Oct 29, 2017
502
The collision/hitbox thing completely turned me off and I returned it pretty fast.
Luckily I can still play the originals on its original Hardware.
Really looking forward for Crash 4
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
I think there's something to be said for designing within your means. Like yeah some hitbox wonkiness is to be expected when dealing with early 3d collision detection, but in Mario 64 they designed around it by making the consequence for getting hit pretty lenient while in Crash they didn't, and that reflects gracefully on one and poorly on the other.

If you die in Mario 64 you start the level again. Die in Crash and you go back to a checkpoint 20 seconds prior to where you died.

I think they're both fairly lenient. Crash might feel more punishing because it forces the player into that 'failure state' more frequently, but it's not wasting a lot of the players time.

I think the life system does waste the players time, and I think that's true more so for Crash than Mario, but that's an artifact of the games era, and they're rectifying that in Crash 4, thankfully.

I'm not saying these aren't flaws either, just I don't think they make it a terrible game. It's just fine, I think as a pure conversion of a 2D platformer, it's even pretty good. There's a lot of stuff that people like about Crash beyond the gameplay too, the levels have a lot of charm to them, the music is really unique, and the art is just generally really interesting in my opinion.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,780
I think a good many of you in this thread skimmed the OP or didn't read it at all.

I'm not "hating" on Crash. In fact, I love Crash and am very much hoping that Crash 4 is great. It's specifically the N. Sane Trilogy that I think has essentially game-ruining issues with it's input lag and collision detection. It completely fails at the most important aspect of a platformer, which is being fun to control and responsive.

It's fine if some of you didn't mind the input lag or other issues, but let's not dismiss my criticisms as blind hatred for an IP or character. I love 3D mascot platformers. All of them.
Yep. Nothing but love for the PS1 originals(other than 3), but it's absolutely insane how badly they fucked up the remakes. Play High Road PS1 then play High Road PS4 and dare to come back and tell me the remake isn't fucked. It's broken. Straight up broken.
 

Coi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,808
It's so funny to watch people calling the "bad design" and "unfair" cards due to lack of skills and incapacity to be good enough on a game lol.
I don't know... I think that Sekiro it's an unfair game with some design flaws, but at least I've learned to play it on their own rules and made my way to the platinum...
At least be honest and say "I hate this game because it's hard for me" instead of calling "hurrrr bad design"
 

SickNasty

Member
Mar 18, 2020
1,256
User warned: Platform wars
In the 90s you either enjoyed a variety of excellent 3D platformers, or you owned a Playstation.
 

Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,513
This thread, like pretty much every crash thread on this forum, is causing my ignore list to expand massively.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
I played some of crash 2 on the PC version recently and was surprised this remake got so much praise. It feels bad to play, the physics are all wrong. The PS1 version still plays and feels much better.
 
Oct 29, 2017
909
Tried it on Switch and I agree OP. Can't say the level design is bad because I didn't play long enough, but the other issues turned me off completely. It was by far the worst platformer I've ever played and I bounced off within a few levels of crash 1.
 

Deleted member 6263

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,387


These are my attempts at Stormy Ascent earlier this week (did it yesterday but didn't record it).

There are a lot of failures in these runs, but rarely ever did it feel like it wasn't my fault, because I'd rushed or panicked. The general platforming is incredibly precise, which is something you don't really get with a lots of platform games these days.

Great attempts there, I was clenching throughout.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,030
I guess I'm in the minority that likes the first game the most. I love the extra challenge and the unstructured layout of everything. I still really like 2 and 3, but I also really dislike all the gimmicks they introduced, I just want straigthforward platforming. In the first one, it just feels so good when you can just nail Boulder Dash, Hog Wild, The High Road, or Slippery Climb.

I guess that might depend on if you're also trying to get every collectible as well, no? Of course, if one has already played these games a ton, they're probably mostly comfortable with them versus someone who's a little more new or a more casual fan of the games
The collectibles really aren't that hard, most of those are just replaying the level or taking a different path. It's the relics (time trials) that are a huge pain in the ass.
Yep. Nothing but love for the PS1 originals(other than 3), but it's absolutely insane how badly they fucked up the remakes. Play High Road PS1 then play High Road PS4 and dare to come back and tell me the remake isn't fucked. It's broken. Straight up broken.
Don't know what to tell you, I didn't have any issues completing that level or getting the relic. I had gotten back into the groove by the time I got to that level and it felt pretty natural.
Tried it on Switch and I agree OP. Can't say the level design is bad because I didn't play long enough, but the other issues turned me off completely. It was by far the worst platformer I've ever played and I bounced off within a few levels of crash 1.
Again with this, have you played only Mario platformers or something?
 

Sacrilicious

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,325
This forum is becoming a joke.

It's not hyperbole. Depending on the version you play, it's the only game I've seen from a big publisher that genuinely qualifies as unplayable.

I have the Switch version and it constantly fails to register jumps. In some cases I have to press the jump button 10+ times before anything happens.

A platformer without dependable jumps is like a racing game with unresponsive turns. It fundamentally breaks the gameplay.
 
Oct 29, 2017
909
Again with this, have you played only Mario platformers or something?

My answer is based on the low framerate, terrible input lag and weird physics of the Switch version. Based on that, yes, it's the worst platformer I've ever played. How can I judge it on anything else when the initial impression was so bad that I dropped it within an hour?
 

Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 27, 2017
2,513
It's not hyperpole. Depending on the version you play, it can genuinely qualify as unplayable.

I have the Switch version and it constantly fails to register jumps. In some cases I have to press the jump button 10+ times before anything happens.

A platformer without dependable jumps is like a racing game with unresponsive turns. It's not playable.

I'm beginning to wonder is maybe the Switch port is just a POS? Because the PS4 version, whilst it has it's faults, is FAR from unplayable.
 

Critch

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,360
1 is shit, but it's from an age where 99% of platformers were worse so it gets a pass. I gave up and switched to 2, and it's much better, at least just past the first "world"
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
The collectibles really aren't that hard, most of those are just replaying the level or taking a different path. It's the relics (time trials) that are a huge pain in the ass.
Oh yeah, I remember a friend of mine attempting those. I don't think I've ever seen someone mutter curses as much as he did when he tried to do those
 

Deleted member 3040

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
893
I played it on PC, so some of the issues you listed isn't really applicable. But the hitboxes are definitely wonky in the remake trilogy, and in some cases the physics as well (ice physics, plus one bonus room is basically a mess due to jumping acceleration being wrong).
 

JazzmanZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,389
Crash is one of the worst games i ever played i always thought it was like one of those games that people say they like as a joke
That's a real stupid line of thinking.
Just because you don't understand why people like a series more then you do doesn't make it a 'joke'.
 

cloudknight

Member
Jun 20, 2020
72
Yeah, it's why I'm nervous about the new one. I read into all the issues with collision and hit boxes after I played through Crash 1 and had the same issues you described. The remake feels like it was made in a year with very little attention to detail.