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QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,711
Imagine seeing that Unreal Engine 5 demo and being like "yeah barely any better"

While flat out power isnt seeing super huge jumps in comparison to before, the values that are multiplying are larger than before. The SSD stuff is also way bigger than you think it is.
 
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Big Shirley

Banned
May 11, 2020
186
But the funny thing is that TLOU2 (and other ND games) do not look 'realistic' at all at all to me. They are pretty stylised in the way characters and the environment look; the use of color has more in common with animation than compared to real life. That said, the animation is very realistic. I think this is a great combination they use because it kinda makes them avoid the 'uncanny valley' effect. A game like Detroit: Become Human tries to look realistic regarding its characters and world but looks more 'fake' because of it.

I agree that they have a very definite art style. Uncharted 4 is almost more like a painting than a photograph.

But I think the broader point still stands. You might say a better way of stating it is that TLOU looks impressively close to offline CGI, which it certainly does.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
I agree honestly. SSD as the biggest advancement is kind of a joke imo. We'll get shorter load times and that's cool but imo it's immensely overblown. Like cool 3 sec load screens and no more corridor loads.

Amazing.

Not a huge deal to me at all imo as I enjoy mp load screens as a breather and corridor/elevator loads for sp same thing. Like I guess now I can just press pause instead for sp. Amazing I guess.

The SSD will help with more than loading .
The whole point of the UE5 demo is to show how it helps with rendering .
Also thanks to the SSD it will change how devs used ram .
This gen is a big jump but more on the CPU and I\O side and the GPU jump rather good also .
RAM is the smallest jump but they don't need as big a jump as before thanks to the SSD.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,427
Chicago
Some of you are being unbelievably harsh to the OP.

This is exactly the same type of hostility and borderline bullying that stops a ton of people from making threads on here.
 

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
Weve barely seen any next gen games, real games not tech demos, so who the hell could say at this point
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,126
i haven't been following specs but considering we're currently working around a 2013 baseline and new consoles need to last 5 years minimum there's got to be reasonable headway there

but barring that, i'll refer to the old Confucius adage ... "buy a pc"
 

Mzril

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
435
I agree, but the true diminishing returns are going to be noticeable in mostly the BUDGET and the ART. We can't just keep scaling up, its unsustainable. Whoever predicted AAAA was right.
 

captainmal01

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,339
RAM sure it's not a great amount but everything else really is a big step up. And you're not getting 10x that amount because it would make consoles cost 1000 pounds. The GPU is greater than a 6x difference because of the improvement of Navi architecture over GCN, while having hardware raytracing elements.

Not sure why you brushed the CPU aside, it's a big step up and will allow for higher framerates, much better physics calculations number of enemies on screen, etc.

SSD is a massive game-changer and it's being praised by developers as one of the most significant improvements for a long while. They're the experts so listen to them.

Storage capacity could be an issue, but you shouldn't have to duplicate data like you had to on a hard drive so you can probably save space there - even though it may not make up for the increase in texture size. If you're the type of person who has just a few games installed at once it won't be an issue and you can always move the games over to an external drive instead of outright deleting them.

Just don't think about the specs too much, wait for the games to come and then see whether you still think it's a small jump.

one of the dumbest things ive ever seen on this forum

Yeah, next time maybe try and inform people instead of leaving vapid negative one-liners. Like you didn't even bother to explain why it was dumb in your view.
 

CKT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Feb 1, 2020
619
This gets said basically every gen post PS2/Xbox/Gamecube.
"360 doesnt look that much better"
*360 is very different*
"PS4 doesnt look that much better"
*PS4 is very different*

repeat forever
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
Kind of agree, not that the next gen won't be amazing and ssd will prob become a standard on pc and that's a good thing.... but I kind of think after watching the unreal demo - it looked better than current gen but it wasn't a quantum leap imo over stuff like God of War or Red Dead 2 - it def looked better but sort of tempered my expectations.
 

learning

Member
Jan 4, 2019
708
The replies in this thread are awful.

First, y'all are extremely rude and condescending. Like I'm reading a bunch of middle schoolers posting.

Second, the OP has a good chance of being correct. So there isn't any reason to be snarky anyways. Who says you're right and he isn't? We don't know enough to judge.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
It's one thing to tell someone they're wrong, it's another to shit on them and be a shitty condescending asshole.
Do better era, for fuck sake.
If you gave a reason why OP was wrong good for you, you're better than 90% of the people in here when it comes to basic forum etiquette.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,323
This thread aged like fine horse manure.

Seriously, the SSDs, the RAM, the cpus , the new gpu architecture. This gen is gonna be bananas.
 
OP
OP
Buddy

Buddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,295
Germany
Wow some of you guys are not nice. It was a genuine question.

I didn't attack the new consoles or tried to downplay them. As I said I am very excited about them and will be there day1.

I am 100% certain the next gen games will look gorgeous. I never denied that.

I am talking strictly numbers. The jump in ram or storage space is the smallest ever. That's a little disappointing.

The gpu tf increase is also not as big as in last generations. Architectural improvements are of course very important and we can't compare tf to tf but that was also true before. The ps4s gpu had 8x the tf of the PS3 and also had architectural improvements.

Thx guys who are answering my questions. The others I recommend to chill a little. No need to be that rude.
 

Corine

Member
Nov 8, 2017
870
I still stand by my statement that this gen is going to be absolutely nuts on all systems :)
 

Nardy_19

Alt-account
Banned
Sep 14, 2019
408
Wow some of you guys are not nice. It was a genuine question.

I didn't attack the new consoles or tried to downplay them. As I said I am very excited about them and will be there day1.

I am 100% certain the next gen games will look gorgeous. I never denied that.

I am talking strictly numbers. The jump in ram or storage space is the smallest ever. That's a little disappointing.

The gpu tf increase is also not as big as in last generations. Architectural improvements are of course very important and we can't compare tf to tf but that was also true before. The ps4s gpu had 8x the tf of the PS3 and also had architectural improvements.

Thx guys who are answering my questions. The others I recommend to chill a little. No need to be that rude.
But you didn't address half the other inconsistencies that others posters brought up against your theory......
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
Especially got Hardcore users that bought Pro/One X systems and installed SSDs on their systems.
As one of those "hardcore" users who put a SSD in thier X1X, it really wasn't much of an improvement. The bottleneck was in the APU, not the SATA interface or drive. I'd bet my life that the transfer speeds never got over 120MB/second on any PS4/XB1, no matter how nice an SSD you put inside.
I've seen the loading time demo on the XSX and believe me, this "hardcore" user *is* blown away.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
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Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
I agree with OP.
Some of y'all are over hyped about this.
Diminishing returns and all.

And do you have any idea the budget and manpower needed to make an entire game look like that UE5 demo?
It's Unreal
I don't want AAAA budgets and timescales

And I wasn't blown away by the unreal demo regardless. The Xbox stuff at TGA was WAY better looking
 

Dr. Doom

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,509
The jumps are getting smaller - we are seeing visual refinements versus drastic jumps.

I expect PS5/Xbox visuals to equal current gen cutscenes.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
First of all let me say I'm very excited about the coming consoles and will buy me a ps5 day 1.

But looking at the specs of the new consoles and I can't be the only one who thinks this.

The only components which are true generational leaps are the CPU power and the storage speed.

Ram we are going from 8gb to 16gb.... that's only a 2x jump. The jump from ps3 to PS4 was 16x.

Gpu performance we are going from 1.8tf to 10.2tf.... that's a ~5x jump. The jump from ps3 to PS4 was 8x.

The jump in storage space is even smaller. We are not even getting a 2x jump from the last gen and the games are certainly not getting smaller.

I am no expert but I play video games since the 80's and from the rough numbers we are seemingly getting the smallest jump ever. It is even smaller when we factor in the pro versions of the systems.

What is the reason for this? Was the same jump not possible from a technical standpoint or do I have a failure in my thought process? Why just a 2 times jump in memory when we were getting normally 10-20 times of a jump for example....
You are looking at the specs all wrong.

First of all the SSD bandwidth, not the size that matters. You are getting a 100x boost here. Not just in the SSD speed, but also in I/O which should make all the specs around it better. More efficient GPU, more efficient CPU, more efficient RAM utilization. It improves everything. For example, the graphics jump between the ps2 to ps3 was roughly 35x, here we are getting a 100x jump in storage speed which as we saw in the UE5 demo is going to completely change the way games are designed.

The GPU is only a 5x jump, but thats just the PS5. Xbox Is an 8x jump compared to the xbox one just like the PS4 was to the PS3 which at the time had the worst gpu. so it's kinda disingenuous to choose the ps5 as example here.

The GPU also has ray tracing built in which does not help with tflops numbers, but trust me having dedicated hardware for ray tracing was considered almost impossible just last year. It's a big big deal. MS mentioned how if they had to do ray tracing using traditional GPUs, it would require 25 tflops. So if you think about it, this 12 tflops gpu is around 25 tflops of raw graphical power and Sony's would be over 20.

Lastly, the vram doesnt need that big of an improvement because of the ssd and i/o. Cerny mentioned how they can easily load in 6gb of data in a second into vram. before devs had to store the next 30 second of data in vram, they dont have to do that anymore. that will help manage vram space much better.

Add all of this to the CPU power (8x... last gen CPUs were basically the same as current gen CPUs with worse architectures) and raw SSD speed you mentioned and we are going to be seeing a massive jump in quality. Hell we have already seen it.

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This is going to be the biggest leap in gaming since the PS1 to PS2 era.
 

Alchemist

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,216
Threads like this are made every generation and the ones agreeing today, always end up looking like fools.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
Because I don't agree with OPs opinion? Stop playing forum police and just the the report button instead.
Did it with the quickness, all you did was point, laugh, and leave, people have been banned for less than worthless drive bys and yours was the most obvious
 

Popstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
877
As someone who has actually programmed many of the consoles of the last 2 decades and I don't think there's anything wrong with the OP.

Just keeping it the Playstation line I'm not sure where I would rate the PS4->PS5 jump in terms of "X times the power" but it being possibly the least "times X" so far I don't think would be a bizarre conclusion. That doesn't mean it won't be a big leap, it's just that we've had some HUGE ones previous.

Don't let the trolls get to you Buddy , most of them actually know absolutely fucking nothing.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
Video games are already so good that I dont really care about how much things improve. I personally just want the tech to help lower the work load of developers so that games can have more for less work/time.
 

learning

Member
Jan 4, 2019
708
Can we please stop with the whole "smallest leap" arguments.... Everything so far has debunked this.
How so?

This is a very subjective question, how big a leap is.

You can't really 'debunk' those arguments until we see new games, etc. And then it's a subjective call whether it's a bigger jump than previous generations.

It being the smallest leap ever is not an impossibility. Frankly, it's to be expected.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
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Oct 25, 2017
18,254
I mean, I wasn't overly impressed with PS3 to 4.
And I'm still not, really.
Same games, but just shinier.
I had this feeling early on in the gen, what broke it for me was bf4 when I finally got around to it.
Finally get the 60+ player matches like the pc version of the game was such a mindfuck and 60fps as well.
I think horizon 2 will do it for me next gen despite primarily being a PC gamer now.
 

Albert Penello

Verified
Nov 2, 2017
320
Redmond, WA
Do you define the leap in percentages or in pure compute?

If percentages - you're correct. The largest leap would probably have been between OG Xbox and X360 or PS2 and PS3 (Gen 6 to Gen 7) (discounting data transfer speeds)

If you're talking pure compute, then it's this generation. The lower percentages reflect the slowing of Moore's Law.

My guess is that a lot of the graphics power between X360 -> XB1 and PS3 -> PS4 was eaten up in screen resolution. Given there isn't a huge screen resolution leap I bet we see a bigger leap in graphics between this generation and last, but not as big as between. Gen 6 and Gen 7.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
In a sense yes. Because of One X, 6TF > 12 TF is not a huge jump. I think the platform holders know this and are pushing other things in their new hardware.

On the flip side, I would not rely on demos to inform us on what the average next-gen game is going to look like. They almost always will disappoint, with the exception of outliers. We've already had a thread about that.
 
Jul 17, 2018
1,631
How so?

This is a very subjective question, how big a leap is.

You can't really 'debunk' those arguments until we see new games, etc. And then it's a subjective call whether it's a bigger jump than previous generations.

It being the smallest leap ever is not an impossibility. Frankly, it's to be expected.
I mean just look at the specs of the PS5/XSX vs the PS4/X1. And then look at the PS5 UE5 demo. For crying out loud these consoles were powered by weak ass notebook like Jaguar CPUs that many devs complained about including the X1X. And now we're getting POWERFUL CPUs that devs are calling that alone a leap. And yet people STILL want to believe we are in for a small leap?

Oh well... People can believe what they want.
 

learning

Member
Jan 4, 2019
708
I mean just look at the specs of the PS5/XSX vs the PS4/X1. And then look at the PS5 UE5 demo. For crying out loud these consoles were powered by weak ass notebook like Jaguar CPUs that many devs complained about including the X1X. And now we're getting POWERFUL CPUs that devs are calling that alone a leap. And yet people STILL want to believe we are in for a small leap?

Oh well... People can believe what they want.
Smallest leap does not imply small leap.
 

Listai

50¢
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,657
How so?

This is a very subjective question, how big a leap is.

You can't really 'debunk' those arguments until we see new games, etc. And then it's a subjective call whether it's a bigger jump than previous generations.

It being the smallest leap ever is not an impossibility. Frankly, it's to be expected.

We have the specifications for current gen. We also have the specifications for next gen.

There is no mystery about this.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
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Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
I had this feeling early on in the gen, what broke it for me was bf4 when I finally got around to it.
Finally get the 60+ player matches like the pc version of the game was such a mindfuck and 60fps as well.
I think horizon 2 will do it for me next gen despite primarily being a PC gamer now.
Didn't they have 60+ player games in the PS2 gen?
Like battlefront?
On the PC at least.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
We have the specifications for current gen. We also have the specifications for next gen.

There is no mystery about this.
The smallest leap posts will happen until we start seeing first party output running on the machines, at least historically
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
I mean .. if only we had something totally new in video games like raytracing to experiment with and watch grow..... if only...
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
Didn't they have 60+ player games in the PS2 gen?
Like battlefront?
On the PC at least.
Very very sparingly yes, especially on console sparingly, I believe less than 3 the last time I checked, and they for sure weren't 60 fps and looked as good as bf4 which still looks good on ps4. Was just a cool thing to see, a big breakthrough for console battlefield fans.
 
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