The city of Berlin bans vigil in memory of journalist killed by Israel as part of a wider ranging ban on numerous forms of pro-Palestine protest

[mbpm]

Germany bans vigil in memory of journalist killed by Israel

Berlin police tell pro-Palestinian Jewish group the vigil falls under the ban on protests in the run-up to Nakba Day.

www.aljazeera.com

Berlin, Germany – Police in Berlin have banned a vigil in memory of Al Jazeera's journalist Shireen Abu Akleh who was shot dead by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank.

The event is one of a number of gatherings that have been forbidden by the authorities under an unprecedented and wide-ranging ban on pro-Palestinian protest in the German capital.

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The gathering in memory of Abu Akleh had been organised by Jüdische Stimme, a Jewish group that supports Palestinian rights. But police told the group that the event – planned to take place on Friday evening – fell under the ban on protests in the run-up to Nakba Day.

Nakba Day is marked by Palestinians every year on May 15, the anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel, which led to the expulsion of 700,000 Palestinians and the continuing occupation.

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Police argued the protests presented an "immediate risk" of anti-Semitic chants, intimidation and violence.

Last month, reports in German media said Jewish people had been subject to anti-Semitic insults at a pro-Palestine protest in Berlin.

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But Wieland Hoban, chairman of Jüdische Stimme, said the earlier incident was being used as a pretext: "The Berlin Senate wants to prevent Palestine solidarity as much as it can.

"They'll take a handful of teenagers saying anti-Semitic things and use that to discredit thousands of people who want to demonstrate peacefully," he said.

Hoban, a music composer who lives in Frankfurt, said the clampdown on pro-Palestinian protest was part of a wider tendency by the German state to show unqualified support for Israel.

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"Their official position is that Germany has a special responsibility towards Israel because of the Holocaust," he said. "People like us, as Jews, are constantly having to explain to Germans that they are not helping us by supporting the oppression of Palestinians.

"The killing of Palestinian journalists is an attempt to kill information, to kill truth, which is exactly what the Berlin police are doing by suppressing demonstrations," Hoban added.

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The protest ban also affected five other rallies and marches that had been planned for this weekend, including events organised by Palestine Speaks, a group representing the Palestinian community in Germany.

Nizar Haddad, a member of Palestine Speaks, said that the ban exceeded all previous measures against the Palestine solidarity movement in Germany.

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"This is an act of repressive violence against Palestinian people in Berlin. We have never faced this level of repression before. It's really a new level of authoritarian state measures against minorities," Haddad said.

"It's a huge attack on the human rights and the freedom of Palestinians, to prohibit us from commemorating the Nakba and also the assassination of Shireen Abu Akleh," he said.

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An application by Palestine Speaks to overturn the ban in court was rejected on Friday afternoon.

The Berlin Administrative Court said that the experience of similar demonstrations last year and in recent weeks, in which it said fireworks had been let off and bottles and stones thrown at police, justified the fear that demonstrators would carry out acts of violence.

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Last year, more than 10,000 people demonstrated in Berlin to mark Nakba Day and protest the latest Israeli attacks on Gaza.

Haddad said his group would be taking its complaint to the Berlin's Upper Administrative Court, but that in the meantime it was not calling on supporters to defy the ban, for fear of police violence.

Heidi Vogt, a spokesperson for the Berlin police, said officers were prepared to enforce the ban and remove people who turned up to protest.

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Posted this in the other thread, but it was mentioned it should be its own thread so I'll throw it up here. Up to mods if this has to get folded into the greater pinned thread

Nakba day has evidently passed so I'm unclear on what will occur in the near future regarding bans, protests, and responses to protests, but this seems to be a hell of a crackdown for reasons that may not be sufficient. I also wonder if this type of intense repression of protests on this topic at certain times will just keep applying now for coming years.

 

[Jeb]

Germany is actively suppressing any dissent of its citizens for a genocidal regime.

This shit should be shouted from the heavens.

This ain't North Korea or Iran, this is a developed nation with a supposed democracy supressing people for daring to speak for human rights.

 

[spineduke]

Anti zionism is not anti antisemitism, thats all I can say. Hope one day Germany can recognize this too. It's not some sort of clever dogwhistle, its recognition of Israel's crimes against humanity.

 

[Hrodulf]

I get that Germany feels like they have to show extra support for Israel because of their past, but I think if you want to be responsible about that support then you have to recognize and support speaking out against their humans rights abuses. Otherwise it just makes you look like you're more afraid of people calling you Nazis again instead of doing the right thing.

 

[Xando]

Germany is actively suppressing any dissent of its citizens for a genocidal regime.

This shit should be shouted from the heavens.

This ain't North Korea or Iran, this is a developed nation with a supposed democracy jailing people for daring to speak for human rights.

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No one is getting jailed for attending a illegal protest. At worst you'll get detained for a few hours or a fine. Only way to actually get jailed for protesting is if you start attacking the police or other protesters.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

I think the arrests should be in the thread title because Germany has got it extremely fucking twisted. In their guilt over the what they did to Jewish people, they've gone down the road of supporting Israel in genocide and apartheid. Holocaust remorse is not an excuse for supporting oppression.

 

[uzipukki]

Anti zionism is not anti antisemitism, thats all I can say. Hope one day Germany can recognize this too. It's not some sort of clever dogwhistle, its recognition of Israel's crimes against humanity.

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This. Calling out the shit Israel does is not anti-semitism in the slightest.

 

[Potterson]

Awful. But I guess it's worth noting that Berlin banned it. Protests were held in other cities without such idiotic ban.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

No one is getting jailed for attending a illegal protest. At worst you'll get detained for a few hours or a fine. Only way to actually get jailed for protesting is if you start attacking the police or other protesters.

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And that detainment is a form of suppression and should not be happening.

 

[Kazooie]

Anti zionism is not anti antisemitism, thats all I can say. Hope one day Germany can recognize this too. It's not some sort of clever dogwhistle, its recognition of Israel's crimes against humanity.

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Protecting the existential right of the state Israel is a fundamental position of the German government no matter if it is lead by the conservatives or the social democrats. Now, the details of whether this counts as Zionism (e.g. I would personally support the existential right of Israel, but I oppose any kind of state's religion in any country; am I a Zionist or not?) may be up for debate, but I do not think that this fundamental position of German government will ever change in our lifetime. Regarding the protests, I feel this is very difficult to work with, because on the one hand, Israel is commiting serious crimes against the Palestinians, on the other hand, strictly anti semitic forms of protest are reported to be on a rise on protests against Israel's crimes. banning protests should still be an exception. Maybe they just need to have more police at the venue to arrest and prosecute anyone who does use antisemitic language.

 

[kradical]

No one is getting jailed for attending a illegal protest. At worst you'll get detained for a few hours or a fine.

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Oh, that's totally okay then. Germany is merely detaining and fining people for peacefully protesting against human rights abuses.

 

[spineduke]

Protecting the existential right of the state Israel is a fundamental position of the German government no matter if it is lead by the conservatives or the social democrats. Now, the details of whether this counts as Zionism (e.g. I would personally support the existential right of Israel, but I oppose any kind of state's religion in any country; am I a Zionist or not?) may be up for debate, but I do not think that this fundamental position of German government will ever change in our lifetime. Regarding the protests, I feel this is very difficult to work with, because on the one hand, Israel is commiting serious crimes against the Palestinians, on the other hand, strictly anti semitic forms of protest are reported to be on a rise on protests against Israel's crimes. banning protests should still be an exception. Maybe they just need to have more police at the venue to arrest and prosecute anyone who does use antisemitic language.

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Neonazis infiltrating such protests can be an issue, but these should be known actors to the police. The resources are there. Instead there's a lack of political will to engage and instead everything is being sweeped under the antisemitic rug.

 

[Xando]

And that detainment is a form of suppression and should not be happening.

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They banned the protest so it was a illegal gathering which will get dissolved by the police. Same thing happened with anti covid protesters.

Berlin state goverment (curiously pro palestine left is part of it) goverment has made some questionable decisions regarding banning some protests (including on ukraine) in the past weeks though i agree with that.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

Protecting the existential right of the state Israel is a fundamental position of the German government no matter if it is lead by the conservatives or the social democrats. Now, the details of whether this counts as Zionism (e.g. I would personally support the existential right of Israel, but I oppose any kind of state's religion in any country; am I a Zionist or not?) may be up for debate, but I do not think that this fundamental position of German government will ever change in our lifetime. Regarding the protests, I feel this is very difficult to work with, because on the one hand, Israel is commiting serious crimes against the Palestinians, on the other hand, strictly anti semitic forms of protest are reported to be on a rise on protests against Israel's crimes. banning protests should still be an exception. Maybe they just need to have more police at the venue to arrest and prosecute anyone who does use antisemitic language.

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But in this case, they seem to be taking people in just for wearing symbols of Palestinian support, and not antisemitism. Of course antisemites will use these events to get their heel in, but that's not what's going on here.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

They banned the protest so it was a illegal gathering which will get dissolved by the police. .

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And again, that is suppression and should not be happening.
If the situation was reversed, and there was a pro-Zionist march, I can guarantee you that Berlins leadership would stay quiet.

 

[Kazooie]

Oh, that's totally okay then. Germany is merely detaining and fining people for peacefully protesting against human rights abuses.

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If a protest was banned, doing it anyway may lead to you getting detained, yes. I do not think that is an issue in itself, because what use would the ban of a protest be otherwise. However, it stands to question, if banning the protest was necessary in the first place.

 

[sirap]

Extremely fucked up. That's all I can say at this point.

 

[Kazooie]

And again, that is suppression and should not be happening.
If the situation was reversed, and there was a pro-Zionist march, I can guarantee you that Berlins leadership would stay quiet.

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Being for or against a state in general is hardly equivalent though. Protesting against actions of the Isrealean government is one thing, protesting in an anti-zionist way, so, to my understanding, against the existence of Israel itself, is fundamentally different though.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Germany being on the wrong side of history?


No way....


(Especially considering the recent Ukrainian situation)

 

[Älg]

europe don't oppress muslims challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

 

[Idde]

Berlin, what are you doing? I know you have a history, but isn't the way.

 

[Qikz]

This. Calling out the shit Israel does is not anti-semitism in the slightest.

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Agreeing with this, but unfortunately on an international stage the Israeli government has turned it into anti semitism, even though the Israeli government do not speak for all Jewish people, nor does the things they do have anything to do with religion at all other than using it as a barrier.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

No one is getting jailed for attending a illegal protest. At worst you'll get detained for a few hours or a fine. Only way to actually get jailed for protesting is if you start attacking the police or other protesters.

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Oh that's okay then?


Really?

 

[sirap]

Berlin, what are you doing? I know you have a history, but isn't the way.

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They're making up for their past by…*checks notes*…arresting people protesting against a country committing war crimes, apartheid and genocide.

I swear we're in the fucking twilight zone.

 

[Xun]

This is so incredibly fucked up.

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

This is so disgusting.

What they did to that woman is a f*cking disgrace to humanity.

It's not anti-semitism to point out the monstrousities of the Isreali government.

I wonder how long this hypocrisy can last?

 

[hmp]

Oh that's okay then?


Really?

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Where did he say that it's okay? He is just clarifying the situation.
People can speak up about this situation and (rightly so) critisize the Berlin state government without havintg to lie about the situation.

 

[Randam]

I'm only really getting what is going on on Era and what is going on in Germany and let me tell you, this place would be considered as antisemite as it gets in Germany..
Isreal can do what they fucking want and every one raising their voice gets put down..

 

[Xando]

Oh that's okay then?


Really?

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Where did i say it's ok?

I just clarified for the post i quoted that made it sound like these protestors would be thrown into a north korean gulag. Banning the protest was a stupid decision made by the berlin state goverment (other states allowed protests btw.).

 

[Deleted member 16876]

This is so disgusting.

What they did to that woman is a f*cking disgrace to humanity.

It's not anti-semitism to point out the monstrousities of the Isreali government.

I wonder how long this hypocrisy can last?

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Exactly this.


So fucking disgusting.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Where did i say it's ok?

I just clarified for the post i quoted that made it sound like these protestors would be thrown into a north korean gulag. Banning the protest was a stupid decision made by the berlin state goverment (other states allowed protests btw.).

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Sorry if I misunderstood, but from the tone of your post it sounded like you were trying to just downplay the severity of what was happening to the protesters.


If that wasn't the case then I apologize.

 

[Irminsul]

Where did he say that it's okay? He is just clarifying the situation.
People can speak up about this situation and (rightly so) critisize the Berlin state government without havintg to lie about the situation.

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On that note, the thread title really should say "The city of Berlin", because it has nothing to do with "Germany". There were plenty of demonstrations in other cities. Allowing/disallowing demonstrations is regulated on municipal level in Germany.

 

[The Masked Mufti]

Being for or against a state in general is hardly equivalent though. Protesting against actions of the Isrealean government is one thing, protesting in an anti-zionist way, so, to my understanding, against the existence of Israel itself, is fundamentally different though.

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Did you even read the article before coming in to bat for Berlin? The vigil for Shireen, which was organised by a Jewish organisation (one that supports full rights for Palestinians), was labelled a protest by Berlin. People were arrested for Palestinian colours and, in the case of Ramsy Kilani, a prolific activist, for wearing a keffiyeh. So let's stop handwaving this away as a protest when it was only given that name by the authorities in order to suppress support for Palestinians.

As for your point about anti-Zionism. It's take a the IQ of a fork to read up on why that sentiment exists exists outside of anti-Semitic circles.

 

[behOemoth]

The doctrine of Berlin's new mayor is becoming more and more questionable. Otherwise, it is again a projection of the structural anti-Semitism of German society, which is projected only on the Muslim minority even after the failed terrorist attack on a synagogue, while Covid deniers protest against the Jewish elite under the protection of police and popular right-wing politicians speak of globalists and other antisemitic cyphers.

 

[Kazooie]

It's take a the IQ of a fork to read up on why that sentiment exists exists outside of anti-Semitic circles.

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Sorry, I do not understand this sentence, can you rephrase it? I am not a native speaker and I cannot grasp it.

Did you even read the article before coming in to bat for Berlin?

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I am not coming in to bat for Berlin. The ban was unjustified and if people were arrested solely for wearing Palestinian garments, that is inacceptable. I was just saying that if it was anti zionistic (as opposed to pro zionistic) protest, then that would be a very different situation, because supporting the existential right of Israel (i.e. being zionistic) does not mean supporting all actions of Israel's government.

 

[Helix]

holy hell, talk about missing the point....

 

[hobblygobbly]

This is not exactly true as the article tries to claim

Germany hasn't banned any pro-palestinian protests or banned the vigil. The city state of Berlin has done it (and they always ban a lot of stuff that makes no sense, including recently prior to this). The mayor has been coming under fire a lot for a lot of nonsensical and stupid shit

There are pro-Palestinian gatherings in other parts of the country and vigils, I literally saw one this weekend myself

 

[nelsonroyale]

This speaks to their historic tendancies, rather than a reasonable reaction to a show of solidarity with a crime against humanity.

Fucking shameful

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Not so long ago, Germany was touted in the EU as a country that has its shit extremely together, but this and the recent shenanigans around Ukraine support-but-not-really put some serious cracks in that image.

 

[Oghuz]

First the Ukrainian flags and now this. What is the mayor of Berlin smoking?

 

[hmp]

On that note, the thread title really should say "The city of Berlin", because it has nothing to do with "Germany". There were plenty of demonstrations in other cities. Allowing/disallowing demonstrations is regulated on municipal level in Germany.

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Absolutely. The major of Berlin has been questionable for a while now. It's awful and shouldn't happen, but talking as if this was an issue in all Germany misleading

 

[FliX]

On that note, the thread title really should say "The city of Berlin", because it has nothing to do with "Germany". There were plenty of demonstrations in other cities. Allowing/disallowing demonstrations is regulated on municipal level in Germany.

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Agreed and changed.

 

[astro]

Israel commuting acts of genocide while using anti-Semitism as a shield is abhorrent.

Berlin, even with its hard stance against actual anti-Semitism (which is absolutely correct), should be better than this.

 

[Deleted member 21469]

I was just saying that if it was anti zionistic (as opposed to pro zionistic) protest, then that would be a very different situation, because supporting the existential right of Israel (i.e. being zionistic) does not mean supporting all actions of Israel's government.

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What about the existential right of Palestinians or Palestine huh? Where's Germany in that?
Israel does not have the right to exist at the expense of Palestinians. The only remotely fair situation would be a one state for all its citizens with the right of return guaranteed but we know Germany will not fight for that.

 

[Deleted member 21469]

This is not exactly true as the article tries to claim

Germany hasn't banned any pro-palestinian protests or banned the vigil. The city state of Berlin has done it (and they always ban a lot of stuff that makes no sense, including recently prior to this). The mayor has been coming under fire a lot for a lot of nonsensical and stupid shit

There are pro-Palestinian gatherings in other parts of the country and vigils, I literally saw one this weekend myself

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I wonder, do you ever feel an ounce of sympathy towards Palestinians?

 

[Kazooie]

What about the existential right of Palestinians or Palestine huh? Where's Germany in that?
Israel does not have the right to exist at the expense of Palestinians. The only remotely fair situation would be a one state for all its citizens with the right of return guaranteed but we know Germany will not fight for that.

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I do not know whether there is an official position wrt existential right of Palestine in Germany. Israel is the only country where I know this has been solidified as a position. However, it is rare that existential right of a country is being discussed at all and I would expect that the existential right of all countries is being respected / recognised by Germany.

 

[Deleted member 21469]

I do not know whether there is an official position wrt existential right of Palestine in Germany. Israel is the only country where I know this has been solidified as a position. However, it is rare that existential right of a country is being discussed at all and I would expect that the existential right of all countries is being respected / recognised by Germany.

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Israel (as it is currently and as it always was) exists as an exclusive ethno state on the expense of Palestinians it has chased away.
Saying it has the right to exist without elaborating further and explaining what you expect to happen to Palestinians is counting on people not to prod you further. It's also an endorsement of settler colonialism.

 

[Jeb]

No one is getting jailed for attending a illegal protest. At worst you'll get detained for a few hours or a fine. Only way to actually get jailed for protesting is if you start attacking the police or other protesters.

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End result is still suppressing voices against genocide.

 

[Deleted member 21469]

No one is getting jailed for attending a illegal protest. At worst you'll get detained for a few hours or a fine. Only way to actually get jailed for protesting is if you start attacking the police or other protesters.

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Imagine if it was the same for pro Ukrainian protests.

 

[Xando]

Imagine if it was the same for pro Ukrainian protests.

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They actually detained people for using ukrainian flags at a protest last week in berlin