The Cherno reacts to Halo Infinite

[Heidern]

Where is there a thread that has some constructive crit or feedback that 343i could use?

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I'm not sure that your enthusiasm for this sort of discussion is realistic in light of the initial reactions to this particular showing. People are not usually able to think objectively in the midst of strong emotional reactions.

However, we have already seen in the past that MS/343i have been 100% willing to ship products that are incomplete/in poor condition without any apparent qualms. So, do you think that it would actually result in any meaningful change if such a thread did exist?

Some might have an expectation that there will be meaningful change before the game is released, but this seems highly improbable if the game is launching in a few scant months.

 

[arsene_P5]

P.s who's Cherno?

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He worked at DICE on frostbite and now has his own youtube channel and works on his engine. I mostly plays on pc and imo I like his impression videos.

Edit:

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

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[Miniature Kaiju]

Maybe he still has that UE5 demo in his brain and thinks all next-gen games are going to have infinite polygonal detail. Speaking of, it seems he does not know this is a crossgen game.

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Maybe he's just expecting it to look somewhat better than something from the beginning of the decade and include some of the new techniques that have been created since then.

No, he doesn't know it's crossgen game. It shouldn't matter, either, there are current gen games that do displacement better than this.

 

[avaya]

I hope they delay it, jettison the Durango boat anchor then get this bitch back onto the full Anaconda and deliver as promised from the 2018 trailer.

 

[Dizastah]

After warching the 4k feed I thought it looked a lot better than live. It looks better than Godfall to me.

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Why pick Godfall as a comparison?

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

"It's not his fault a content creator can't do the bare minimum and find out a few basic facts!111!111!"

 

[Rover_]

i did not watched the video but a reminder that even a game studio junior/intern knows more than the typical Era poster and the slander a person with knowledge gets here is embarassing just because they don't have plataform loyalty.

i recommend anyone to try and learn how to make your own engine so you respect this person more. i guarantee to you the guy has substancial knowledge on the subject.

 

[FuturaBold]

Have we heard from Phil S at all? Has he made a statement? He's Mr Xbox and been bragging about the Series X hardware (rightfully so) but has he said anything about Halo's development?
Talk about a massive disappointment.

 

[Mudo]

Never heard of this guy but he seems cool.
That was eye opening to watch him freeze-framing shots of the game.
I had not actually stopped to look at still images of it, and damn. He's right,
that it looks current gen. I wonder if this is just how it's going to be for crossgen
and MS has not wanted to come out and say it. The "powered by Series X" or whatever that
tag was that they used, was all over the games shown that day. Almost like a catchphrase
to wash away fears about what it really is? I'm rambling but at the end of the day, this
game is the flagship game for the ushering in of a new generation by Microsoft, so I can't
believe they saw this video, and though "yeah, this is the thing that's going to blow people away
and make them preorder our new machine". I hope we find out from the horse's mouth what
in the world happened here, someday. I don't want to dogpile the devs, I'm genuinely curious
as to how the graphics ended up where they are today, after years of development, for a new,
very powerful console. Strange days...

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Here's the full quote, lightly edited to remove "likes" and "hmmms" and stuff:



As for why he's highlighting that? Because those are terrain textures that look flat, with not depth to it, even though they're supposed to have rocks, grass, twigs, stuff. You know, the kind of stuff that asks for a displacement map, or more advanced tessellation. Not just a flat pane with a texture that looks just like a texture on a flat pane.

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I think this is a good example for expectation management and the price of 60FPS.

So, Halo is an open world sandbox game running at 4k/60FPS, so generally, I'd say it is understandable that the ground textures aren't anything special.

However, if we compare that to some of the ground textures in TLoU2, or, if we stick with 60FPS, some of the things in Battlefront 2, and keep in mind that Microsoft's marketing revolves around having the most powerful console, I think it is fair to be disappointed here.


What they have shown isn't top of the line visually, but since it's their flagship IP and they are trying to sell us on a NextGen console that is supposedly the most powerful one, it really should be top of the line.



The thing for me personally is that I didn't pay any attention to the visual shortcomings when watching the gameplay, instead, I was happy that it went back to a more traditional Halo-look.

 

[Jedi2016]

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

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Sad to say, but yeah, this.

Seeing his input on the PS5 Cerny reveal was good, because it was very technical, which is obviously Cherno's expertise. He freely admits that he doesn't know much about actual game design, and sadly, it shows.

There's just so many things that he straight up misses in his reactions. The most obvious was in the R&C trailer... In the Cerny talk, he lauded the SSD and system bandwidth along with everyone else, about how it would be a game-changer, but when he got the chance to actually see that bandwidth in action in R&C, he completely overlooked it. Someone had to tell him in the comments, and he was like "Oh yeah, you're probably right." He was all about textures and shading and PBR and bounced lighting and reflections, all the little minute technical details of rendering a single frame, that he completely missed the fact that the game was loading city-sized levels in less than a second.

Even DF knows to spend time on movement and animation and what else is going on beyond just rendering. Cherno is a far cry from being the end-all, be-all expert on how to make a game, and people shouldn't be looking at him like he is.

 

[panda-zebra]

It's dirt.

It actually does not look as flat as he suggests.

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That's exactly why he had to take a closer look at it. He's looking at what he thinks is a next gen game and looking for any evidence of it being next gen whatsoever. He was looking to see if the dirt had anything more to it than just being a nice texture, maybe to see if it was made up of tiny pieces of geometry and could be deformed or displaced or whatever, I dunno. It's likely your misunderstanding of what he was trying to achieve by saying what he did that's the problem here, rather than how he's apparently "much less insightful than some people think".

 

[Bugalugs214]

Whole knack crew more time shitting up xbox threads than they do playing single player goty bangers.
What a sad existence.

 

[Papacheeks]

Sad to say, but yeah, this.

Seeing his input on the PS5 Cerny reveal was good, because it was very technical, which is obviously Cherno's expertise. He freely admits that he doesn't know much about actual game design, and sadly, it shows.

There's just so many things that he straight up misses in his reactions. The most obvious was in the R&C trailer... In the Cerny talk, he lauded the SSD and system bandwidth along with everyone else, about how it would be a game-changer, but when he got the chance to actually see that bandwidth in action in R&C, he completely overlooked it. Someone had to tell him in the comments, and he was like "Oh yeah, you're probably right." He was all about textures and shading and PBR and bounced lighting and reflections, all the little minute technical details of rendering a single frame, that he completely missed the fact that the game was loading city-sized levels in less than a second.

Even DF knows to spend time on movement and animation and what else is going on beyond just rendering. Cherno is a far cry from being the end-all, be-all expert on how to make a game, and people shouldn't be looking at him like he is.

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He also was watching it for the first time, while DF literally studied the video frame by frame and did an analysis on it. This was a first watching/reaction of halo trailer. The trailer not the whole demo.

 

[Minky]

I haven't seen this guy around before, but he seems pretty knowledgeable and fair. Certainly a lot more diplomatic about these issues than your standard Youtube hypebeast. Confused as to why people are being shitty and trying to denigrate his experience here, his general understanding of render tech seems more than sufficient to make an educated comment on the matter. I'd like to see him analyse the full demo.

 

[Betamaxbandit]

Yeah that was hilarious

I just can't understand how that scene looks so bad, and then they still decide to make it so damn long in the demo and feature it in this trailer lol

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Who signed that part of the demo off? Who objectivly looked at that portion that was submitted and thought, "yeah, looks good." and gave their signoff.

Im assuming Matt Booty? Dont get me wrong, I love that its 4K 60 and semi open world with (seemingly) large environments but as a showcase for Xbox it fell completely flat. I totally agree with everything in that video, im just really dissapointed in that showing. Its Halo ffs, its a tentpole series for MS and it looks like that?

Ive heard rumours that this game started off in Unreal 4 and then switched to new proprietary engine, is that true? If so, is that one of the reasons for its lackluster showing?

 

[Papacheeks]

I haven't seen this guy around before, but he seems pretty knowledgeable and fair. Certainly a lot more diplomatic about these issues than your standard Youtube hypebeast. Confused as to why people are being shitty and trying to denigrate his experience here, his general understanding of render tech seems more than sufficient to make an educated comment on the matter. I'd like to see him analyse the full demo.

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Because ERA. And I doubt anyone thats complaining about him has watched his video series and other analysis videos.

 

[svnty6rs3]

Why pick Godfall as a comparison?

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lolol if Halo didn't look better than godfall then we really would have some problems.

 

[DavidDesu]

I half watched the DF video last night where Alex was going on about the lighting and time of day and while sure that has its implications in the look it is absolutely undeniable that the graphics just are not very good, not even for current gen. As a supposed showcase of next gen visuals running on a 12TF machine it is just unfathomable. Not sure what they were thinking. And it looks even worse when you watch their initial "game engine demonstration" video they released two years ago. It's not even in the same ballpark. Something went seriously wrong and it's frustrating seeing some people unable to just accept it and start asking the same questions.

The gameplay looks fun and I feel warm fuzzy feelings as a Halo CE fan back in the day when those shield sound effects occurred. I think I'd probably enjoy this game, but it is not even a showcase as a "current gen game on steroids" that people assumed this would be.

 

[svnty6rs3]

Sad to say, but yeah, this.

Seeing his input on the PS5 Cerny reveal was good, because it was very technical, which is obviously Cherno's expertise. He freely admits that he doesn't know much about actual game design, and sadly, it shows.

There's just so many things that he straight up misses in his reactions. The most obvious was in the R&C trailer... In the Cerny talk, he lauded the SSD and system bandwidth along with everyone else, about how it would be a game-changer, but when he got the chance to actually see that bandwidth in action in R&C, he completely overlooked it. Someone had to tell him in the comments, and he was like "Oh yeah, you're probably right." He was all about textures and shading and PBR and bounced lighting and reflections, all the little minute technical details of rendering a single frame, that he completely missed the fact that the game was loading city-sized levels in less than a second.

Even DF knows to spend time on movement and animation and what else is going on beyond just rendering. Cherno is a far cry from being the end-all, be-all expert on how to make a game, and people shouldn't be looking at him like he is.

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What you are saying makes sense, but in his defense he was specifically commenting on those things that you mentioned in the halo video. He wasn't commenting on the gameplay, but more so the way textures looked and how fog was being used to cover up draw distance details.

 

[Titanpaul]

Whole knack crew more time shitting up xbox threads than they do playing single player goty bangers.
What a sad existence.

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Just ignore the threads and ignore the repeat offenders.

Edit: referring to the ignore functionality

 

[Miggy]

Whole knack crew more time shitting up xbox threads than they do playing single player goty bangers.
What a sad existence.

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You sound upset. Are u okay?

 

[Papacheeks]

You sound upset. Are u okay?

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What is a Knack Crew?

 

[Miggy]

What is a Knack Crew?

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I dunno, ask the person that I quoted.

 

[PsyDec]

If Cherno doesn't like it then that's a major concern for Halo infinite...

P.s who's Cherno?

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Don't know but he didn't like Halo Infinite so it must go to the top of Era

 

[SecondNature]

Is he a Halo pro or something? OP has no context

 

[Gamer17]

To people who say why he said it looks current gen :

This is farcry 5 (current gen) thats open world and runs 4k 60 fps on 2080 (equivalent of xsx in pc )


Do you blame him that he says it looks current gen ?

In my personal opinion farcry is more impressive

 

[EagleClaw]

To people who say why he said it looks current gen :

This is farcry 5 (current gen) thats open world and runs 4k 60 fps on 2080 (equivalent of xsx in pc )

Do you blame him that he says it looks current gen ?

In my personal opinion farcry is more impressive

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Apparently it just looks so good because of fake light sources.

Yeah, real lighting, i guess...

 

[Csr]

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

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Why can't you say something like that in here? I see a lot of people questioning DF and cherno like you are doing right now.
There will always be people attacking you in the internet if they don't like what you are saying, even if you praised DF you could get blowback by some fanboy who disagrees with them.
But belittling the person instead of pointing out where he is wrong isn't considered a good attitude anywhere.
If you explain why DF or why anyone is wrong about something i doubt you would get piled on or anything like that.

 

[arsene_P5]

I was disappointed and still am about the demo. I liked the lightning in the cutscenes, but some gameplay scenes need work and if 343 needs more time, then Halo shouldn't release at launch imo.

 

[Deleted member 14927]

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

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Curious to see what your take is, or would you rather avoid to pointless hostility that seems to permuate everything on here these days?

Corralx is a senior graphics dev. Wrong...

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You beat me to it. Was just about to say Corralx is a GPU dev

 

[SJRB]

Don't know but he didn't like Halo Infinite so it must go to the top of Era

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You realise things go to the "top" because people post in threads, right? People like you?

Persecution complex in this thread is surreal. It's okay for people to criticize stuff, you know.

 

[Aisod]

I feel like the horse has been beaten enough at this point. I think anyone who doesn't live under a rock with regards to gaming news understands that this is pretty much a current gen game that will have some improvements on the series x. The game will be patched and look better over time like previous titles.

The demo was underwhelming, but it is what it is. I am just hoping the game play is enjoyable.

 

[Deleted member 5725]

To people who say why he said it looks current gen :

This is farcry 5 (current gen) thats open world and runs 4k 60 fps on 2080 (equivalent of xsx in pc )

Do you blame him that he says it looks current gen ?

In my personal opinion farcry is more impressive

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I'm not interested in FC6 at all but damn that looks good if it's actual gameplay footage.

 

[Kaswa101]

To people who say why he said it looks current gen :

This is farcry 5 (current gen) thats open world and runs 4k 60 fps on 2080 (equivalent of xsx in pc )

Do you blame him that he says it looks current gen ?

In my personal opinion farcry is more impressive

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Pretty sure that's a bullshot, but I do agree that FC5 kinda looks better lol

 

[JasoNsider]

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

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Ok, now I'm curious. What has he said that is inaccurate? Because I've watched a lot of his videos, including his engine series, and he seemingly knows his stuff (on top of being an excellent presenter)

 

[OtterX]

It seems like Halo Infinite is an Xbox One game that is getting some extra features on Series X as opposed to a Series X game that is getting downgraded to run on Xbox One.

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This is probably accurate. I'm sure 343 is targeting 60fps on all platforms. I wonder if the resolution on base Xbox One is 720p.

I still think it looks pretty good, especially is than can keep it close to 4K/60 and add ray tracing. The gameplay looks on point and that's my biggest concern.

 

[Van Bur3n]

To people who say why he said it looks current gen :

This is farcry 5 (current gen) thats open world and runs 4k 60 fps on 2080 (equivalent of xsx in pc )

Do you blame him that he says it looks current gen ?

In my personal opinion farcry is more impressive

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This is a bullshot. The first rule of comparing visuals between games is never use an Ubisoft game.

 

[Reckheim]

Ok, now I'm curious. What has he said that is inaccurate? Because I've watched a lot of his videos, including his engine series, and he seemingly knows his stuff (on top of being an excellent presenter)

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even if he is not always right, the whole point of these video's is for a reaction from someone that knows what they are looking at. He's not there to analyze every single frame, but to offer a reaction; and then explain his reaction.

 

[Gamer17]

This is a bullshot. The first rule of comparing visuals between games is never use an Ubisoft game.

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I ll change it to an in game photo in a minute but the point still stands

 

[nelsonroyale]

After warching the 4k feed I thought it looked a lot better than live. It looks better than Godfall to me.

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I think there are some aspects of Godfall which look better, but right now Halo at least runs smoother. The main issue with the footage for me isn't just the lighting. It is the asset quality and the texturing.

 

[catswaller]

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

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yeah halo looks bad but this was a very low information video, showed less understanding of whats going on than i'd expect from any graphics programmer.

"looking for reflections to see if its next gen" ok dude.

(good for him with a youtube career instead of having to deal with gamedev though I wish him well)

 

[aeroslash]

He's not really.
He's worked for a few years on mobile games for EA and then spent a short time as a junior on the Frostbite tech, but that's about it.
Multiple of his videos show a fairly basic (and often wrong) understanding of graphics in fact.
But you cannot say something like that in here, like with DF.

Click to shrink...

You can say whatever you want about him, but what he says on this video is true.

And yes, he does some errors from time to time but it's not true that he has a fairly understanding of graphics.
He is even developing his own graphical engine.

 

[Deleted member 29249]

All the talk about lighting didn't do much for me but this vid did



halo needs some work.

 

[Gamer17]

This is a bullshot. The first rule of comparing visuals between games is never use an Ubisoft game.

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Swapped with youtube gameplay screenshot

 

[Jedi2016]

Graphically, that shot of Far Cry is pretty accurate, at least on PC (where I played it).

 

[Axon]

I guess it wouldn't have if he was gushing over Halos visuals eh ? I bet his lack of insight wouldn't have bothered you if he only had positive things to say. It's only an issue to you now because he's critical. And you know it. And this isn't just specific to you.

Don't like a thread ? Don't post in it.

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I would have taken issue with it regardless of what his opinions are. But you are right, I do believe that negativity is inherently more harmful than positivity and as such deserves to be criticized more harshly.

Also:

"Don't like a thread ? Don't post in it."

What? Guess you are the one who cant handle someone beeing critical.

 

[Dizastah]

All the talk about lighting didn't do much for me but this vid did



halo needs some work.

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Wow.

 

[Skeff]

I like this guy's stuff. As someone who doesn't know shit as to what's going on under the hood, I feel he does a good job of breaking down tech in a way I can understand. He also seems like a genuine dude.

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I think the best thing he does is when he goes through frame by frame and shows you the effects, for example the disappearing sparks on this video.

 

[zombiejames]

If he's this disappointed by the trailer I can only imagine his reaction to the full gameplay demo.