I dont think Melee tournaments builds hype form nintendo products or other games aside from Melee, hell most of the money and fame is going to the Melee celebrities like mango and leffen.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
The Big House Online C&D'd by Nintendo; Event Cancelled
- Thread starter Soulflarz
- Start date
It's actually pretty popular though. It brings in huge stream numbers and entrants compared to other games, even Ultimate
Maybe so. But if they are serious about what they feel is right, they should do whatever it takes to stand their ground.
Setup a patreon or a go fundme for legal expenses. Go and picket outside of Nintendo headquarters. Do whatever they need to so they can keep their dignity, stay true to their principles and sleep at night.
This misconception that Melee is the only smash game with lasting impact or popularity or that newer smashes need to be more similar to Melee to have lasting impact.
It has been pointed out to me that another tournament, called Smash Summit 10, is currently live and using Slippi. I'm not sure what the difference is at this point.
What huge numbers you are talking about? Most of the average views are poor compared to actual big games like LOL, fortnite or even lesser ones like Apex or dota.
Not y'all forgetting how toxic and abusive that so many people in that community are and have been exposed this year lol.
And like they are broadcasting an emulation and third party mods, not Nintendo's fault if they were unprofessional. Don't fans learn from all the project Nintendo have shut down ? Y'all really blowing this out of proportion.
And like they are broadcasting an emulation and third party mods, not Nintendo's fault if they were unprofessional. Don't fans learn from all the project Nintendo have shut down ? Y'all really blowing this out of proportion.
Compared to other fighting games, I mean. 100k+ viewers are pretty common in big events like Evo
1) Nintendo hasn't disavowed the entire competitive community and that's pretty clearly not the reason why this tourney was stopped, especially since Nintendo put out a pretty clear statement before you posted
2) trying to paint the entire online competitive Smash community with the pedo apologist brush is... well not something that's fair by any stretch and that's the nice way to put it
Do you not think the organizers of the event might have consulted they mir lawyers before deciding to comply with the order? If there was a chance to legally stop Nintendo from doing this I am sure they would.
I'm having trouble engaging with you because it's hard to explain what a privileged position you have to be in to be able to sacrifice everything for a passion or hobby, I'll ask you this, surely something happened in a hobby or passion you have that involved a giant corporation doing something you felt was unfair. Did you sacrifice everything to go to war with them? Did it keep you up at night? Did you feel undignified because you didn't "stand your ground" or did you just move on eventually while comisserating with other people that it sucked?
do you think they should not have been exposed or was it worth it to get snipe in about a community at large based on a few bad actors that were already completely exiled? is exposing abusers bad? are other communities free of abusers because they haven't been outed (assuming this is true)? please answer these questions in sequence. thank you
People in the general gaming community are toxic and abusive, should we ban all videogame sports and tournaments? Just because Nintendo does stuff like this, does that make it right?
There is no realistic legal recourse, Nintendo is well within their rights to do this short of a monumentally huge decision which would be the biggest development in copyright law in more than 20 years. All you can do is make a big stink about it on social media and make enough noise to try to get them to change their minds.
Can we stop doing the legwork of Nintendo's legal/PR department for them by saying shit like "while it's Nintendo's right to do this..."? Anyone can send anyone a C+D. I can send you, the person reading this, a C+D. It's meaningless. Nintendo's proposition that they can do anything about slippi or even that they can do anything about anyone streaming slippi is untested and the last thing the community needs right now is people saying "oh well you know the law says blah blah blah".
I doubt every part of this. And challenging Nintendo lawyers to hold a community event? Even if you win you might be paying legal fees for the rest of your life.
"Views are poor compared to LOL and Fortnite, two of the most popular multiplayer games on the planet". If that's your threshold for success then the entirety of the fighting game genre is a failure. In fact, basically every single competitive game is a failure then. Melee gets view numbers that can occasionally eclipse SF5 and the latest Smash entry. In the genre it's in it is a popular game. Given the context of this thread, this is a bizarre thing to be incorrect on and get hung up about.
Prerequisite, Nintendo are absolute assholes.
that makes sense but competitive smash as whole is niche enough that nintendo think they can still pull an C&D. Without any real repercussions, this isnt WIIU era nintendo, Melee players should start supporint other platfform series or make their own because is clear nintendo will never stop being like this.
I typically just accept things as they are, smile to myself and move on. In this case they are truly upset and feel victimized and singled out. If they feel that way then they either just put their head down and bow down to the master and ask him for another lashing or they stand up and say "no" like Rosa Parks and then prepare for legal action to stay true to themselves. If Smash is not that important to them, then they can just let it go.
Alternatively, they can crawl back to Nintendo on their bellies and ask for their forgiveness and maybe be able to stream Smash but I would die a thousand deaths before I did that.
Last edited:
I'm not only talking about those abusers, but like melee fans are known for using stuff like Project M which are illegal. Nintendo probably asked them to not use Slippi in some way or form. If they didn't still not really smart to use a freaking emulator and Slippi on a broadcast that you make profits from and that Nintendo is LITERALLY part of. Like make it make sense, they played dumb as hell and got consequences then act surprise and blame Nintendo for that.
so when you said "toxic and abusive" you were referring to people using illegal software? got it dude
You're not entirely wrong. People sue people over frivolous things all the time and it gets thrown out of court. Maybe they have no legal recourse, but they could create something to get visibility on this and give themselves a platform (no matter how small or weak) to be heard. If they lose everything, but they are OK with that because they took a stand, I applaud them.
Just to echo the ridiculousness of the post you replied to, Slippi is actually perfectly legal software (although of course, Nintendo has full legal right to restrict streams of its IP)
OP
OP
It's not illegal and in the case of project M Nintendo never even cared to so much as C&D them, so I'm not sure this is really a good example. It's still not morally right, the alternative is we all go and meet up to play melee irl right now.
I think that's what people are missing. The alternative isn't delay based netcode at this point - no one's gonna sit through that, especially when dolphin itself probably is as bad as slippi on paper. The alternative that nintendo proposes is quite literally meeting up in person like we used to when they sponsored it. That's pathetic of them.
True, I know I wouldn't risk it. But then again - if Nintendo isn't lying in their statement about this -they did tell the organizers to not do the Slippi/Melee thing first. Like, without a C&D. And - again, according to Nintendo - they didn't listen.
If they were that scared of Nintendo and their lawyers would they not have complied the first time Nintendo asked? and as a result avoided the whole event getting canceled (vs just the Melee-part... now they can't do anything. Before they would have at least been able to hold the Ultimate part of the tournament).
Are...are you comparing fighting for the right to hold a specific online Melee tournament with the civil rights movement, where black people legally fought, suffered, and died for the legal right to be treated as equals under law?
Really?
Summit isn't sponsored by Nintendo. The Big House online was. That's probably the big issue at play here.
Assuming for the sake of argument that you are right, we could theoretically expect future unofficial tournaments to use Slippi and not get taken down. I guess we'll see if that pans out. Hope it does.
Just so you know, there is no event without slippi. Slippi is literally the reason an online tournament of this scale is possible.
User banned (2 Weeks): Comparing a video game legal battle to the fight against institutionalized racism
I used that only as an example of standing up for what you believe in. Rosa Parks could have sat in another seat, she chose not to. She was in no mortal danger, she was arrested over a seat, but she stood her ground.
You're comparing that to a fucking video game tournament and I can't believe how unaware you are of the clownsuit you've dressed in.
That's probably a different beast seeing how that isn't a mod nor emulating an existing game.
Hmm... I admit that I am not well-versed with this kind of stuff at all but I was under the impression Slippi is something you need to make Melee run properly in an online tournament environment? And that you wouldn't necessarily need if for Ultimate since this has its own online already in the game?
Alas, please educate me.
This is the kind of profound bullshit that makes me want to never give Nintendo another cent, and I've played all of 15 minutes of Smash in my entire life.
Incorrect, the Big House Online was not sponsored by Nintendo but previous Big House tournaments were. They never would have been able to organize an online Melee tournament if Nintendo was involved.
Smash Summit is probably ok since it's an invite only tournament with only 20 players rather than an open tournament with hundreds of entrants
Melee is a GameCube game so it doesn't have online. Slippi is a modified version of the dolphin emulator that works with legally copied versions of Melee that allows the game to be played over the internet.
I'm comparing it to standing up for what you believe in regardless of the repercussions. She wasn't even tired, she just didn't want to get up.
So... I wasn't wrong in assuming that Slippi isn't necessary to play Smash Ultimate in an Online Tournament? Which...only half of their tournament, as far as I understand it, was Melee. The other was Ultimate.
They now have to cancel their entire event, including the Smash Ultimate tournament. Which, if they had listened when Nintendo first asked, there would be no C&D and they would at least be able to hold the Ultimate part of their tournament, no?
That's all I was saying. Don't get me wrong, I still don't get what Nintendo's deal is seeing how they don't sell Melee anymore so they don't stand to lose any money, but fact of the matter is if they had listened without the imminent threat of legal consequences there may have at least been an Ultimate Tournament (unless, ofc, it was a conscious decision to not comply in order to make a statement, which I can respect).
Not the point. You're not helping your case by drawing a direct comparison between a video game tournament and Rosa Parks.
Toxic yea... abusive, the abusers. Don't tell me the melee community isn't the worse. Literally can't understand after each project and illegal shit they do that gets shut down that something is up.
I'm drawing a comparison between Rosa Parks and whoever the individual members are who are saying they are being wronged that organized said tournament. At the end of the day, you take a stand for what you believe in ( or not) and face the consequences.
Then cancel the event and report it no the year after like LITERALLY 90% of the events that were suppose to occur this year. Not y'all pretending this HAD to happen and that use the illegal/unmoral wathever you want to call it, route was a good idea.
The short version is that Ultimate has very shitty netcode that makes online play incomparable to offline play. Melee had, until earlier this year, a specially coded emulator that gave it similar in principle netcode to Ultimate. Slippi is an implementation of rollback netcode for Melee, which makes the netcode so good that it's sufficient to run tournaments on a national scale.
People in the Ultimate scene don't think very highly of the pedigree of online tournaments because it's not the same game. Melee was in a similar boat until Slippi, which allowed Melee to continue more or less unabated despite covid shutting down in-person tournaments. This tournament doesn't exist without Slippi.