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The Big House Online C&D'd by Nintendo; Event Cancelled

Soulflarz

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,803


For context, The Big House is a Smash Supermajor that runs annually. Obviously was planned to be online this year due to COVID and all. As for Slippi, they've implemented rollback netcode and automatic replays for the Melee, it's basically an extension off of a dolphin build if I remember correctly. Regardless, Nintendo doesn't seem too happy with this fact, even if this is pretty much the gold standard for online Melee nowadays.

Bonus points to Nintendo for shutting down the Smash Ultimate tournament as part of this?

To be fair, they're within their legal rights, but man, did they learn nothing from EVO2013 when they tried to C&D that?
 
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
While they are legally in the right to do so (as you said), it's still fucked up. And why also cancel Ultimate's tournament?
 
TheDanimal

TheDanimal

победитель победитель куриный ужин
Member
Oct 25, 2017
854
I just wish Nintendo would stop getting in their own way
:(
 
Layell

Layell

One Winged Slayer
Member
Apr 16, 2018
1,982
(edit for thread merge)

Slippi is one of the best melee mods out there, and Nintendo has now set their eye on it. Guess mods can't have better online than Nintendo.
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
God damnit Nintendo. Way to fuck over some of your most dedicated fans in what would have been the first major tournament in more than 6 months. Absolute garbage decision

What does this mean for Smash Summit 10, which is going on now? Isn't that using Slippi?
 
Toad King

Toad King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
Chicago
Nintendo is (and hopefully still is, even after this) a big sponsor of previous Big House tournaments and that probably played a big part in this C&D. Don't want their name on a tournament with 3rd-party mods.
 
Brainfreeze

Brainfreeze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,686
New Jersey
Also worth mentioning that all of the Slippi Championship league matches from the past month or so have been removed from the Beyond the Summit Youtube channel, though it's currently unclear whether that was just them trying to preempt a Nintendo claim or whether Nintendo actually contacted them.

This could do serious damage to Smash's long term competitive health.
 

KoolAid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,676
At least they did not send a cease and desist to Slippi, so they are being generous.
 
OP
OP
Soulflarz

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,803
Hailinel said:
Goes both ways.

Just because you can mod Melee to play online in a Nintendo-sponsored event doesn't mean that you should.
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While that's fair, melee online pre rollback is borderline awful, let alone dolphin. I don't really think there was any way to really hold melee at the event without being a covid risk, it's not like anyones going out of their way to scumbag the company, it's just desperate times all around.

KoolAid said:
At least they did not send a cease and desist to Slippi, so they are being generous.
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I'm pretty sure that it's all original code, it's just modified dolphin. There's nothing to sue for there.
 
Magneto

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
Dyle said:
God damnit Nintendo. Way to fuck over some of your most dedicated fans in what would have been the first major tournament in more than 6 months.
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I'd say that Melee fans are most dedicated fans when it comes to... Melee. They're not really important for Nintendo in 2020.

(But this decision fucking sucks)
 
Roliq

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,181
SageShinigami said:
Case in point. Nintendo is absolutely legally in the right here, but this isn't something any fan should support as it does not benefit you in any way, shape, or form.
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I mean isn't using Slippi in the same ballpark as using Project M for Brawl? That people didn't expect Nintendo to act were pretty naive
 
Jbone115

Jbone115

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,739
Well this sucks.

Honestly, it's a miracle that Nintendo/TPC hasn't C&D'd Pokémon Showdown yet.
 
OP
OP
Soulflarz

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,803
Roliq said:
I mean isn't using Slippi in the same ballpark as using Project M for Brawl? That people didn't expect Nintendo to act were pretty naive
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Pt 2 of this, as far as I know, wasn't PM shut down because they were scared Nintendo would take legal action? Nintendo never acted or threatened to act. It's just a really common misconception.
 
Dr. Zoidberg

Dr. Zoidberg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,218
Decapod 10
Nintendo gonna Nintendo. They don't change. I don't understand how any of you are legitimately surprised by stuff like this anymore.

I don't even get upset. It's like getting mad at the scorpion for stinging you. And I still like the Scorpion but he's gong to sting, it's just his nature.
 
Zyrox

Zyrox

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
4,619
Makes sense. Slippi is played on emulators, not on official hardware. Of course Nintendo doesn't like that. The TO's were playing with fire and got burned. Sucks that the Ultimate portion was shut down as well, though.
 
BlueMagic

BlueMagic

Member
Jan 10, 2018
62
Absolutely fuck Nintendo. Incredibly stupid from them, especially considering the global situation.
 
data

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
After the incidents earlier this year that showed how messed up things were, I'm not surprised.

www.resetera.com

Smash player Puppeh comes out about his sexual abuse by player Cinnpie, when he was 14 and she was 24

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sra3ds Awkward title sorry, feel free to report with something better. I feel like not many of these younger-male-older-female stories come out, so it's pretty educational to read how fucked up it is from the victim's pov.
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

www.resetera.com

Smash player Nairo had sexual relationship with CaptainZack when he was 20 and Zack was 15

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sra4qe And paid Zack to keep silent about it. Nairo also deleted or deactivated his Twitter account.
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

www.resetera.com

Smash Player ZeRo accused of Harassment by Jisu and sending sexual messages to Katie when she was 14 years old [Up: ZeRo Attempts Suicide]

Making a new thread for the accusation against ZeRo by Jisu and Katie. I think it warrants its own thread not to overshadow Jisu's story regarding her time in the smash community and rape at age 15. I think I butchered the thread title but mod could fix it if it need be. Jisu's tweet Zero's...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

www.resetera.com

LoL and Smash personality SkyWilliams housed several of the Smash players involved in scandals (Update: Now accused of Sexual Assault)

Check threadmarks for everything. UPDATE: Sky accused of sexual assault: There has been some talk of giving this it's own thread from the ZeRo post, but several members of the community have speaked out about how the Sky House, as SkyWilliams's house is known, originated or encouraged a lot...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com

www.resetera.com

Smash player Puppeh comes out about his sexual abuse by player Cinnpie, when he was 14 and she was 24

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sra3ds Awkward title sorry, feel free to report with something better. I feel like not many of these younger-male-older-female stories come out, so it's pretty educational to read how fucked up it is from the victim's pov.
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
 
Professor Beef

Professor Beef

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Oct 25, 2017
22,499
The Digital World
Lady Bow

Lady Bow

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Nov 30, 2017
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The tournament series known as "The Big House" is the longest running annual Super Smash Brothers major and was primed to return for its 10th consecutive year until the tournament organizers received a letter from Nintendo:



For those unaware, "Slippi" is the name of the Super Smash Brothers Melee build with added features such as rollback netcode, unranked and direct online multiplayer battles, and an online log-in/tag system. All of this added to a Gamecube game that had no online functionality to begin with. This amazing one man project created by @Fizzi36 couldn't have came out at a more perfect time amid this pandemic where holding tournaments in person isn't viable or safe.

This is going to be a huge blow to the competitive scene and the legacy of the Big House tournament series. Nintendo has the full right to determine what happens with their IP but this is a really bad move on their part and quite similar back to 2013 where the Melee community raised $94,683 for Breast Cancer Research for their game to get into Evo 2013 and Nintendo ended up cancelling Melee's presence in the event. (and then thankfully later after major backlash, allowing the Melee event at Evo to proceed)
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,059
Stupid moves from this company are its calling card. Their software is so good it succeeds in spite of them.
 
Codeblue

Codeblue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,841
Understandable. It's probably easier to threaten grassroots organizers in an effort to avoid the embarrassing netcode comparison between games than it is to actually implement decent netcode.
 
WindUp

WindUp

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,396
Roliq said:
I mean isn't using Slippi in the same ballpark as using Project M for Brawl? That people didn't expect Nintendo to act were pretty naive
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This is not really true. Slippi is not a modification of the Melee code/ISO in any way. It's a modification to the Dolphin emulator, whereas Project M was a modification of Brawl. Legally, from what I understand you're allowed to write programs however you want that run Gamecube games as the Dolphin code isn't owned by Nintendo (and is perfectly legal).

Of course, this doesn't apply to streaming a tournament that uses Slippi because you're streaming Nintendo's assets. They own Melee and even if it was run on LAN they would legally be able to at least stop monetization. That's not to say they would (although they tried with EVO 2013, esports is not really viewed the same way now as it was then).

I am certainly not an expert on the legal side or the Slippi side, but from what I understand it was developed intentionally in such a way that it would not be as sketchy of a legal area as Project M or the like. That isn't to say Nintendo couldn't take it down if they so desired, because they're a huge corporation (see the youtube-dl fiasco for a similar example of a perfectly legal piece of software being taken down). The developer of Slippi has done a few interviews that are on YouTube, and they're pretty interesting!
 
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