The Biden administration is preparing to sue Texas over a new law banning most abortions

Loudninja · Sep 8, 2021

WASHINGTON—The Biden administration is preparing to sue Texas over its new law banning most abortions, people familiar with the matter said, an action that would set off a federal-state clash at a time when the future of abortion rights becomes an ever-more-pressing question before the courts.

The Justice Department could file a lawsuit as soon as Thursday, the people said, adding that the timing could be pushed back. The Biden administration has faced pressure from Democrats and abortion-rights groups to take action to stop the Texas restrictions after the Supreme Court allowed them to take effect.

WSJ News Exclusive | Biden Administration Prepares to Sue Texas Over Abortion Law

A lawsuit challenging the state’s restrictions limiting the procedure to the first six weeks of pregnancy is set to be filed in coming days.

www.wsj.com

PeakPointMatrix · Sep 8, 2021

Fucking good.

Warhawk4Ever · Sep 8, 2021

Good, at least it shows effort though I am not sure how successful it will be in the end.

TaySan · Sep 8, 2021

Good! Go on the offensive.

Loudninja · Sep 8, 2021

I didn't put the date because it can happen Thursday but its not 100%

davepoobond · Sep 8, 2021

its got to happen.

Thordinson · Sep 8, 2021

Warhawk4Ever said:
Good, at least it shows effort though I am not sure how successful it will be in the end.

This.

It's also much better than the statement Garland had about enforcing the FACE Act.

Chirotera · Sep 8, 2021

Won't this just bump it up to the Supreme Court eventually? Not really confident in it getting struck down there.

Kill3r7 · Sep 8, 2021

Chirotera said:
Won't this just bump it up to the Supreme Court eventually? Not really confident in it getting struck down there.

Yes. They are risking potentially bad precedent for a moral victory. That said, there is always a chance they win.

Loudninja · Sep 8, 2021

Kill3r7 said:
Yes. They are risking potentially bad precedent for a moral victory. That said, there is always a chance they win.

Eh? Supreme Court already set a bad precedent by ignoring the law anyway.

Dyle · Sep 8, 2021

On the one hand it's good and necessary, on the other hand it could backfire badly once it hits scotus

greatgeek · Sep 8, 2021

Paywalled. Does the article explain what the grounds are supposed to be?

Thordinson · Sep 8, 2021

Loudninja said:
Eh? Supreme Court already set a bad precedent by ignoring the law anyway.

Ignoring it doesn't set the precedent an actual ruling will.

Everybody Lies · Sep 8, 2021

America never progresses while we are still fighting battles that were won some fifty years ago. I suppose that is the true aim of all of this. Gum up the works, delay, deflect and muddy the waters.

Tavernade · Sep 8, 2021

Kill3r7 said:
Yes. They are risking potentially bad precedent for a moral victory. That said, there is always a chance they win.

I do wonder if them losing that fight would let Biden use 'fix the courts' as a more active call to action.

Dozer · Sep 8, 2021

Maybe I'm just a cynic but if Roe is toast (and it probably is), it should happen before the 2022 elections before this country gives Congress back to the Gileadians, so this will speed things up I guess

Loudninja · Sep 8, 2021

greatgeek said:
Paywalled. Does the article explain what the grounds are supposed to be?

I guess we see that when the lawsuit is filed

Cheesebu · Sep 8, 2021

Fucking hell yea. I'm not sure what can actually be done (not being a downer, I literally don't know this stuff) but that gets me fired up. This cabinet ain't perfect but I respect the fuck out of this.

Edit: On a personal level, this shit is so painful. The idea that every clump of cells needs to turn into a human is fucking insane.

GYODX · Sep 8, 2021

Good. Now let's codify Roe v. Wade into law.

hurlex · Sep 8, 2021

yeah you got to force this. The general public need to realize how political the SCOTUS has become.

greatgeek · Sep 8, 2021

Dozer said:
Maybe I'm just a cynic but if Roe is toast (and it probably is), it should happen before the 2022 elections before this country gives Congress back to the Gileadians, so this will speed things up I guess

If the extremists are willing to overrule Roe outright sooner rather than later (after chipping the doctrinal foundation of legal abortion down to nothing over a period of time), they would be cynical enough to play the political cycles. They could, for example, remand the Mississippi case to the lower courts next summer for "reasons", and then overrule Roe when the case comes back to them sometime after the election.

Kill3r7 · Sep 8, 2021

Loudninja said:
Eh? Supreme Court already set a bad precedent by ignoring a law.

Ignoring a law is not the same as ruling on it.

Tavernade said:
I do wonder if them losing that fight would let Biden use 'fix the courts' as a more active call to action.

We need to flip two senate seats in 2022 or find a way to make Manchin play ball. If that is the genesis of that action then by all means.

It might also ultimately force the court to pick sides. They are trying to neuter Roe v Wade/Casey without actually overturning them.

plagiarize · Sep 8, 2021

greatgeek said:
Paywalled. Does the article explain what the grounds are supposed to be?

It'd be a terrible precedent to allow states to circumnavigate constitutional precedent like this. I don't trust this court not to do it, but I'm not 100% convinced they won't. Imagine a blue state doing this over gun ownership, say.

Not making it technically illegal but allowing people to sue the right into oblivion doesn't seem like fire the court would want to let happen.

greatgeek · Sep 8, 2021

plagiarize said:
It'd be a terrible precedent to allow states to circumnavigate constitutional precedent like this. I don't trust this court not to do it, but I'm not 100% convinced they won't. Imagine a blue state doing this over gun ownership, say.

Of course, and I should clarify: my question was as to what the actual procedural basis (you can't just sue someone b/c they did something unlawful) for this federal lawsuit would be.

CallMeShaft · Sep 8, 2021

I'm going to assume the Supreme Court will strike this down. It's way to partisan nowadays and they don't give a crap about the rulings of their predecessors.

I do, however, like how this will keep Texas' draconian abortion law in news cycles for a bit. Sad to say, but people need to be constantly reminded of the shit the GOP is capable of; the human race consists almost entirely of people with short attention spans.

FTF · Sep 8, 2021

Good! Go on the offensive and stop this bullshit before it spreads to other states.

GameAddict411 · Sep 8, 2021

How would the previous supreme court ruling affect this?

plagiarize · Sep 8, 2021

greatgeek said:
Of course, and I should clarify: my question was as to what the actual procedural basis (you can't just sue someone b/c they did something unlawful) for this federal lawsuit would be.

The basis would be that it defacto criminalized something that has previously been considered protected under the constitution. The court would have to decide if that argument holds up. Should they decide it doesn't I fully expect some blue states to copy the language to ban handgun ownership.

EloquentM · Sep 8, 2021

Thordinson said:
This.

It's also much better than the statement Garland had about enforcing the FACE Act.

.

GameAddict411 · Sep 8, 2021

regardless, the supreme court is 6-3 conservative. I don't expect a good outcome. In fact, what if the supreme court rules that abortion is illegal? This will impact the whole country. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Kill3r7 · Sep 8, 2021

plagiarize said:
It'd be a terrible precedent to allow states to circumnavigate constitutional precedent like this. I don't trust this court not to do it, but I'm not 100% convinced they won't. Imagine a blue state doing this over gun ownership, say.

Not making it technically illegal but allowing people to sue the right into oblivion doesn't seem like fire the court would want to let happen.

How would such a law work? The state issues gun permits.

plagiarize said:
The basis would be that it defacto criminalized something that has previously been considered protected under the constitution. The court would have to decide if that argument holds up. Should they decide it doesn't I fully expect some blue states to copy the language to ban handgun ownership.

It's not criminal it's civil.

Maxim726x · Sep 8, 2021

Chirotera said:
Won't this just bump it up to the Supreme Court eventually? Not really confident in it getting struck down there.

Yes. This is a part of the GOP roadmap. They knew this would be challenged.

This will make it to SCOTUS eventually. I'm not really looking forward to it... We all know what's going to happen. Going to be a really sad day.

ZeroMaverick · Sep 8, 2021

I don't really understand what this would accomplish, but the sentiment is appreciated. It further highlights the issue.

Tavernade · Sep 8, 2021

GameAddict411 said:
regardless, the supreme court is 6-3 conservative. I don't expect a good outcome. In fact, what if the supreme court rules that abortion is illegal? This will impact the whole country. Please correct me if i am wrong.

I could also be wrong, but if they kill Roe then states would be free to outlaw abortion, but it wouldn't make abortion illegal overnight in states that want to keep it legal.

So, still very bad.

Thorn · Sep 8, 2021

Tavernade said:
I could also be wrong, but if they kill Roe then states would be free to outlaw abortion, but it wouldn't make abortion illegal overnight in states that want to keep it legal.

So, still very bad.

It would make the Red States even more miserable to live in, yeah.

GameAddict411 · Sep 8, 2021

Tavernade said:
I could also be wrong, but if they kill Roe then states would be free to outlaw abortion, but it wouldn't make abortion illegal overnight in states that want to keep it legal.

So, still very bad.

Ok, so worse case scenario the blue states will be ok. But it still pretty fucked.

Extra Sauce · Sep 8, 2021

set as many eyes as possible on the Supreme Court. let the people know that their values are no longer being represented (or rather even less than before) by the highest court in the land.

not that polls seem as reliable as they once did but it's not even really close is it, pretty sure most Americans think abortion should be legal.

Deleted member 4346 · Sep 8, 2021

GYODX said:
Good. Now let's codify Roe v. Wade into law.

The Senate doesn't have the votes to do this unless the filibuster is abolished. There aren't 10 Republicans to join Democrats on this.

Pwnz · Sep 8, 2021

ZeroMaverick said:
I don't really understand what this would accomplish, but the sentiment is appreciated. It further highlights the issue.

Force the Supreme Court to either uphold Roe or make a contradictory ruling to previous rulings, allow abortion to be illegal in many states which only about 20% of the population agrees with and the rest strongly disagrees, flip the Senate with the political mandate to pack the courts. If the SCOTUS goes partisan its a huge gamble.

My guess is that the SCOTUS will uphold Roe narrowly with justices like Roberts voting to uphold while dude that likes beer and the latest nutjob vote against it.

23qwerty · Sep 8, 2021

Does the White House sue States often?

Thordinson · Sep 8, 2021

plagiarize said:
It'd be a terrible precedent to allow states to circumnavigate constitutional precedent like this. I don't trust this court not to do it, but I'm not 100% convinced they won't. Imagine a blue state doing this over gun ownership, say.

Not making it technically illegal but allowing people to sue the right into oblivion doesn't seem like fire the court would want to let happen.

I don't know how Blue states could do this with gun ownership. The states issue permits, as mentioned, so it would be hard for them to say "You can sue anyone who aides and abets someone in obtaining a firearm" while giving permits out. I don't think that works.

Pwnz said:
Force the Supreme Court to either uphold Roe or make a contradictory ruling to previous rulings, allow abortion to be illegal in many states which only about 20% of the population agrees with and the rest strongly disagrees, flip the Senate with the political mandate to pack the courts. If the SCOTUS goes partisan its a huge gamble.

My guess is that the SCOTUS will uphold Roe narrowly with justices like Roberts voting to uphold while dude that likes beer and the latest nutjob vote against it.

Carving out more exceptions to Roe is not actually contradictory precedent. Casey v. Planned Parenthood partially overruled Roe v. Wade leading us here.

Pew has support for making abortion illegal at close to double that at 39%.

Today, a 59% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 39% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

Dhx · Sep 8, 2021

Thordinson said:
Carving out more exceptions to Roe is not actually contradictory precedent. Casey v. Planned Parenthood partially overruled Roe v. Wade leading us here.

Pew has support for making abortion illegal at close to double that at 39%.

Right. We're already in a post Roe world. Casey is the new standard. And Dobbs is likely going to set the new normal.

LudicrousSpeed · Sep 8, 2021

plagiarize said:
The basis would be that it defacto criminalized something that has previously been considered protected under the constitution. The court would have to decide if that argument holds up. Should they decide it doesn't I fully expect some blue states to copy the language to ban handgun ownership.

The conservatives on the Supreme Court by and large do not give a shit about any sort of consistency, short of maybe Roberts and even more remotely Thomas (and Thomas seems the sort that would think this approach is worthwhile).

They'll find a way to rule the way they want on abortion, and if the ruling opens up some pathway for some liberal legislature somewhere to try to use their ruling against them, they'll just rule the way they want there and ignore the contradiction, because they're starting from a conclusion and then finding a rationale after the fact.

Pwnz said:
My guess is that the SCOTUS will uphold Roe narrowly with justices like Roberts voting to uphold while dude that likes beer and the latest nutjob vote against it.

Who else do you think is going to vote to uphold Roe? It's a 6-3 conservative court, Roberts voting to uphold only gets you to losing 5-4 instead of 6-3.

Thordinson · Sep 8, 2021

LudicrousSpeed said:
They'll find a way to rule the way they want on abortion, and if the ruling opens up some pathway for some liberal legislature somewhere to try to use their ruling against them, they'll just rule the way they want there and ignore the contradiction, because they're starting from a conclusion and then finding a rationale after the fact.

To be fair, that's pretty much every Justice and judge.

Kemal86 · Sep 8, 2021

Tavernade said:
I could also be wrong, but if they kill Roe then states would be free to outlaw abortion, but it wouldn't make abortion illegal overnight in states that want to keep it legal.

So, still very bad.

Some states have old laws on the books that basically say "If Roe v. Wade is overturned, abortion is instantly illegal in this state." Illinois had one of these and it was thankfully made invalid by new legislation last year or the year before.

Tovarisc · Sep 9, 2021

23qwerty said:
Does the White House sue States often?

If we want to split hairs it's DOJ doing the suing, not White House. Quick google says not that long ago DOJ sued Georgia over new election laws.

grand · Sep 9, 2021

Eh. This law will inevitably be struck down. The civil aspect is pure evil genius but the law as a whole will be defeated eventually. It's too comedically over the top to survive. And the administration knows that, which is why they are trying to calm people down while the legal system slowly but inevitably kills off this unconstitutional law.

Now the upcoming Mississippi case is way more dangerous. That's the one everyone should be worried about.

Thordinson · Sep 9, 2021

grand said:
Eh. This law will inevitably be struck down. The civil aspect is pure evil genius but the law as a whole will be defeated eventually. It's too comedically over the top to survive. And the administration knows that, which is why they are trying to calm people down while the legal system slowly but inevitably kills off this unconstitutional law.

Now the upcoming Mississippi case is way more dangerous. That's the one everyone should be worried about.

The problem is even if the law is unconstitutional, it has effectively banned abortion in Texas. Providers in Texas have already stopped performing them. I'm worried about the women in my state and community right now. Everyone should be worried about this law because it's already affecting women.

anexanhume · Sep 9, 2021

Good. They want to force the issue and enact this regressive bullshit, they can be the catalyst for getting abortion rights codified for every woman in the country.

23qwerty · Sep 9, 2021

Tovarisc said:
If we want to split hairs it's DOJ doing the suing, not White House. Quick google says not that long ago DOJ sued Georgia over new election laws.

Gotcha, thanks.

The Biden administration is preparing to sue Texas over a new law banning most abortions

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