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The behaviour of a significant part of the Pokemon community over the last few years has been toxic and irresponsible. It is time to stop.
- Thread starter Lelouch0612
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Oh cool we're on the "few bad apples" part of this discourse.
I came into this thread because it was heavily leaning on the "fans are calling them lazy" shit.
Not sure where you got that from what I said. I said it was fucked up and that 0 people are defending it.
They ALREADY HAVE the character models for for the 800+ Pokemon. They've been using the same models for a while now, and yet here they are purging the dex anyway, and it seems that they'll never put all Pokemon in the same game ever again.
The harrasment is awful, of couse, but this decision is absolutely deserving of criticism. People just need to voice their complaints in a reasonable manner.
They've excused it, or downplayed it- not better.
Okay, so...?
If it was simple to do it would've been done.
Occam's razor tells us that if everything were as simple as "They have done all the work before" TPC would have avoid all this show.
Not trying to sound like an asshole here (but will probably come off this way anyway), but you tend to get too stressed out in threads where people call out or criticize Nintendo (or related topics such as this one), so if you're truly feeling this way (as per your post), I'd definitely recommend stepping out for a bit and avoiding Twitter as well because this hobby ain't seriously worth mentally harming oneself over.
I understand some people take it too far, but at the same time as consumers we can criticise, and devs listen more than ever, especially Nintendo. How else are they supposed to know how we feel? Calling them lazy is stupid, but they've got their priorities all wrong.
Yeah mate, there are some batshit insane Pokémon fans, but most of us aren't like that. Every fanbase has this problem, it's nothing new, and thankfully the mods here and the Twitter admins are doing a pretty good job on trying to keep things civil.
Anyway, there's a legit argument to be made over the whole Pokédex issue, and just saying "GameFreak's not lazy!" to quell those thoughts isn't enough. You can't come out and say that you decided to keep some Pokémon out to focus on the other aspects of the game and then present an overworld that looks straight from a 3DS game and call it a day, it's ridiculous.
My favorite Pokémon are Chimecho and Klinklang, and on account of them not being very popular I know there's a low chance they make it into the game. But at least we'll have some good graphics, am engine that runs smoothly and a nice, lively open world, right? Well, I sure as hell hope what they showed in the trailer is from an early beta, because otherwise we're getting a shit game and that's not okay. Maybe they need to be more efficient instead of just working "harder", if you will.
Anyway, there's a legit argument to be made over the whole Pokédex issue, and just saying "GameFreak's not lazy!" to quell those thoughts isn't enough. You can't come out and say that you decided to keep some Pokémon out to focus on the other aspects of the game and then present an overworld that looks straight from a 3DS game and call it a day, it's ridiculous.
My favorite Pokémon are Chimecho and Klinklang, and on account of them not being very popular I know there's a low chance they make it into the game. But at least we'll have some good graphics, am engine that runs smoothly and a nice, lively open world, right? Well, I sure as hell hope what they showed in the trailer is from an early beta, because otherwise we're getting a shit game and that's not okay. Maybe they need to be more efficient instead of just working "harder", if you will.
They are too stubborn and cheap to hire the staff needed. Game Freak is a tiny studio and yet they want to do multiple HD titles at once.
And if it is actually hard work to put their assets into the game then they fucked up big time in the creation of their engine.
Dude.... what kind of response is this? You've done nothing wrong. Please take it easy...
Maybe, they should take the approach they're taking now. Stay small and slash and burn the dex.
Because you're dismissing this based on the grounds that it's really extreme while failing to acknowledge the systemic problems in Pokemon fandom that led to this even being made in the first place. That's basically what the phrase "few bad apples" is. Yeah no shit people shouldn't be defending this, but ultimately, what's the difference between that and inflammatory accusations, dog piling and conspiracy mongering, all of which basically under the same umbrella in terms of toxicity.
It's ok to be disappointed, but at this point this kind of behavior is no better than gamergate, and if you don't like being compared to gamergate, maybe some self-relection is needed because I'm seeing straight up the same tactics used.
i dont understand why you think using other words instead of lazy doesn;t make your post a "lady devs" post anyways.
cheap and stubborn?
stop beating around the bush and quote the posts you think are excusing harassment
Or maybe they should treat a series that sells 15 million every year like it's actually a big series.
I'm not calling them lazy, the people working on the game are working hard, I'm not questioning that, but the people in charge of the studio are too cheap to properly staff the team for a 15 million seller. They treat Pokemon like it's a small series when it needs more.
By what? Slashing the fat out of the Dex was something I've wanted since they crossed gen 5 and I don't see this game looking any better on Switch so I'm not sure where to go with it. Xenoblade 2 runs at like 368p, and FFXII runs under 600p so improvements to the engine will only get you so far if you're trying to hit an IQ better than either of these.
Crunch time isn't a valid argument here at all, game freak could easily hire enough employees to make game development easier but they choose not to, Masuda has been put of touch for a long time and game freak's constant removal of features in every game is ridiculous when pokemon is one of the most successful IPs in the world, the only thing that needs to stop is people tripping over themselves to defend companies that continuously try to get away with the bare minimum
The gamergate comparisons really are the laziest way for people to try to shut down criticism, like gamergate and this situation have anything at all in common.
Good for you, but every Pokemon is someone's favorite and people don't want their Pokemon to be held indefinitely in a prison.
Cool, they can play with them in the games they're in. In the mean time, the games can and should cut the size of the dex.
"Instead of trying to explain why this harassment campaign isn't anything like any other harassment campaign, I'm just going to dismiss everything you say as silly. Hehe look at me and my nuanced discussion."
They have the # 1 media property in the world. They can afford to hire a team capable of HD development.
"No one is defending harassment."
The community is rotten to the core. You add to it but I guess you fail to see that.
Wait, you're advocating that culling the dex no matter what would be an improvement?
Stop equating people being upset over Game Freak's bullshit to a harassment campaign.
None of these words are mutually exclusive traits
Its entirely possible, and most likely the case, that the devs work extreamly hard(they do, no doubt about it) while the top management care more for their profit margin while also thinking that nothing is wrong with what theyre doing
Then why did Masuda pretty much say that even in future games they'll be cutting Pokemon, even though all of the models will should be done by then?
I could accept SwSh not having all Pokemon if Gamefreak would just tell us that future games will have them all. They refuse to, and that is unreasonable.
They literally are.
I never said they should be harassed wtf are you talking about
Dude, someone literally made a fake Twitter account just to slander Game Freak. How is that not a harassment campaign?
Can we also acknowledge the fact that at every single turn, no matter how legitimate the criticism or reasonable the grievance, there are a lot of people who go out of their way to dump on those who aren't satisfied? Outright petty dismissiveness? Pulling the "it'll sell well anyway/you'll buy it anyway so stop complaining" crap all the time? Conflating everyone who criticizes the game with those who are actually being problematic? Like, y'all want to give the most weight to the fewest number of people then pretend it makes a lick of sense to say it's "most" of the conversation. Fuck those people, stop willingly giving them all the power just so you can make a point.
I've said it several times over the past month, but this community hasn't learned a single damn thing from the shitshow surrounding let's go discussion last year and it's aggravating to the point where I kind of just don't want to discuss the games at all.
I've said it several times over the past month, but this community hasn't learned a single damn thing from the shitshow surrounding let's go discussion last year and it's aggravating to the point where I kind of just don't want to discuss the games at all.
Yes?
It seems clear that it boils down to them wanting the dex to be smaller and they might rotate them out in future entries, finally.
As always, I really wish gamers knew how to just say they dislike something without all this extra shit. Criticism is fine, but it always ends up going beyond that.
This is huge. For the most part, game communities lack any real understanding of how games are made or why certain decisions are made. This leads to a lot of people talking out of their ass and riling the fanbases up with misinformation.
When you say this:
And the OP says this about the harassment and toxicity:
You do know that not one game had every single Pokemon available to catch and that isnt what people are upset about, yes?
I don't think it has anything to do with being lazy. It's probably simply a lack of skill set at Gamefreak required to produce a game that is worthy of the AAA label. In this case they should think about recruiting talents with the right skill set for the kind of production the fans expect.
You literally said the only thing that needs to stop is people defending Game Freak. That means you don't think the harassment needs to stop.
That is defending harassment.
Then what is the benefit, from your point of view, of culling the dex?
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory comparison contributing to thread derail; Previous bans for inflammatory behavior
Imagine thinking calling out the "few bad apples" excuse is "rotten to the core".
I'm not even part of this community, I like the games and the series but I would never associate myself with a fandom who can't criticize anything without being angry vitriolic. If you don't like the Gamergate comparison, too bad this shit should be called out more often. And if you don't like being compared about a gamergator, well buddy try not to make yourself look like a gamergator.
It really is just this. If they want to make a policy of every new Generation be lacking in some Pokemon then that's fine but having it be a policy for each new game to not have the full dex for no reason is kind of where I start question of why.
To be honest I don't think Dexit would be nearly as big of a deal if it was just that and more people would be willing to accept it. Granted not everyone but I feel the lack of information of how much this will effect the series moving forward is a large part of the reason for the fans lashing out
This is not an organized harassment campaign, there are plenty of shitty individuals harassing people but the majority of people are just loudly stating how upset they are over Game Freak's shit. GamerGate was an organized effort to harass women for daring to exist on the internet, there is literally nothing in common here and the comparison is quite frankly gross.
If you know this then why did you say this is only about the curated dex when literally every game has a curated dex?
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