Would love to see how this goes but I guess it would involve all other remaining alive characters to be included somehow but that would be hard to get them all back probably
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The Battle to Replace ‘Game of Thrones’: The network researched Martin’s collective works and compiled about 15 possible prequel concepts
- Thread starter Magister Xehanort
- Start date
Would love to see how this goes but I guess it would involve all other remaining alive characters to be included somehow but that would be hard to get them all back probably
It's interesting that they initially passed on the Dance of the Dragons idea and greenlit The Long Night because the former was *too* similar to GoT and the latter felt distinct enough from the brand.
D&D don't own the rights to Game of Thrones. Letting D&D end the series when and how they did had more to do with deferring to their creatives -- and maintaining a reputation of HBO as a place of deference to creatives -- than any legal hassle. If you didn't like S8 it's easy to say now that HBO should've muscled D&D off the show, but imagine in 2016 the optics of the studio firing the showrunners of their biggest property and replacing them with a new team explicitly to keep the show running even longer. People would've cried foul of corporate interference and it would've been a huge black eye to HBO's rep.
I remember Mitch Hurwitz saying that the reason he wrote so many similar names into Arrested Development (George, Michael, George Michael, GOB who is George Oscar, then George's brother named Oscar) was to force the viewers into paying closer attention to the show. If you couldn't keep track of the names, the jokes were probably going to fly over your head anyway.
I don't think it's that they knew better, it's that they ran out of material to adapt. Before the last season, the show changed when they ran out of books. The characterization became flatter and the entire show became more streamlined because they no longer had the books to rely on to give them the detail and color that made game of thrones special. I think the showrunners knew that giving them more time would not have helped them because that wasn't their real problem. They needed the books to adapt from and the books were not coming in time. So it was either try to spin their wheels or work with the information they had. I bet they would even admit they are better adapters than writers so adding on two or three more seasons wouldn't have made the show better, it would have made them just write more worse things while getting to the same place.
Yeah, wow. Literally playing politics, installed someone loyal to him and his world in a top spot when HBO needed him and thought that a Game of Thrones show would be their equivalent to Disney's Mandalorian.
Now that'll never happen again.
They weren't good adapters though. By the time they started adapting stuff from the last two books they were already cutting out entire plotlines and butchering characters for no reason and replacing it with terrible original material. Even though a lot of focus is put on their choices in seasons 7 and 8, the showrunners were making changes that didn't work as early as season 5 that were pilling up and resulted in the shitshow that was the final season.
This is 100% on them. They had direct access to Martin, to additional writers who could elaborate better ideas on how to continue the threads left by the books and instead they chose to ignore all of it and rush to an ending all out of their own heads.
That's what Game of Thrones was, the series is about the politicking.
As a book reader, I am just so uninterested in any sequel series. The main series should end with ASOIAF. The aftermath left to our imagination.
Same as clone wars when they eventually got it right
I just find the parallels amusing and chose to be snarky. I think you could start at either point and be fine. Wars have turning points and that's just as great a place to start
Problem is if you start right at the war then your series is only going to be about 2-3 seasons if you follow the source material.
I can only assume that writing for so long about crafty, shrewd characters immersed in politicking rubbed off on him 🤣
As for the "too many similar names" discussion: I wonder how some of those people who complain or are unable to differentiate between different people with similar sounding names function IRL, with plenty of people having the same name everywhere.
Then again, I remember people still misunderstanding the ending of LOST despite said episode clearly stating, without any ambiguity, what happened... Or, currently, not catching the incredibly non-subtle hints about a certain character's sexual orientation in Stranger Things 4, and then I realize that having two characters with similar names can be too much for them.
I highly doubt that. Time is flexible. They made a 24 episode season documenting 1 day in Jack Bauers life.
8-10 episodes a season lasting as many hours gives them lots of room to tell the story in smaller details. Just depends on how specific they wanted to go.
While I agree it seems smarter to start with setup I think there is a way to tell that story just as effectively without it
You have to remember that the last two books were very divisive, too. And for a reason, even most people who like AFFC/ADWD would probably agree that GRRM introduced way too many new side plots and characters while the main story moves too slowly.
Before S5 came out, I remember a lot of book fans agreeing that the show couldn't possible adapt all that, and streamlining or even outright cutting Dorne, the Iron Islands or fAegon would probably be for the best
Now I agree that what D&D came up with was largely worse. Their Dorne plot is a trainwreck. And after S8 everybody realized that fAegon is actually vital to the story, and cutting him was a big reason why Dany's ending seemed so nonsensical. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. D&D are professional writers and should have done way better, but I don't think trying to streamline the story was unreasonable in itself
I agree with you about the problems with the show that snowballed into a bad ending began back then but for me it's because they went from guiding a train on the train tracks to actually having to lay down the track themselves as the train was moving. If they knew the final books would not be ready by the time the show caught up the released books, they would have approached the show differently. They lost that gamble and that's why the story suffered that instability. They had to rejigger and decided to work around the plots that they knew Martin had already solved versus the other plots that Martin was still figuring out.
GoT replacement? It is called the First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. Come on, someone buy the rights!
I might be off here but didn't he kind of step away on his own? So he could focus on finishing the book(s)? Or was he forced to be sidelined?
Not sure why HBO ever went ahead with a shortened seasons 7 and 8 idea. I get that D&D wanted to wrap it up, but they could have simply told them you can walk away after season 6 and let someone else lead the show to an end. Don't think it needed 10 seasons but maybe a full 10 episodes season 7 and 8.
I still contend season 6 was amazing though! Didn't think there was a way for them to mess it up after how season 6 wrapped up.
The problem is that D&D had started to see Game of Thrones as THEIR show as opposed to an adaptation. I very much disagree that their choice to leave out so much of the last two books was some gamble on compensating with material from the next ones that weren't out yet. We've seen their interviews, the way they talked about taking full control of the scripts and story in the later seasons instead of working with additional writers and a team who could come up with different better ways to handle what Martin hadn't finished yet.
It's one thing to not expand the side-characters at the same extent that Martin does in the books, that's just to be expected of a TV show with non-infinite budget. But D&D, the same showrunners who would say they're not good writers, decided they should be the only ones who would decide the direction of the story, the development of the characters and events, and that they would close out everything in season 8 no matter what it took to make it happen.
If they already did this when adapting Feast and Dance, what makes people so sure that with Winds or Dream out they wouldn't just keep reducing characters to one-liners, inverting character arcs and making the plot developments paper thin? Anyone who wasn't so eager to get rid of the show and rush out to other projects could have done a more reasonable job with these final seasons. They had the resources for it, and the good will of HBO executives. They just didn't want to.
With David Zaslav at the helm now, a soulless AI might actually be an improvement.
From the Battle of the Five Pitches, from most to least interesting to me
Dance of the Dragons
The Long Night
Aegon the Conqueror
Doom of Valyria
Dornish Queen show
I think they made the right decision going for the Dance of the Dragons, even if I personally would have preferred the Blackfyre Rebellions. That being said, I'm glad they didn't do Dunk and Egg, it's just too close to the original material and I'm not really a big fan of their small scale adventures. Also even worse was that one Flea Bottom pitch that I really hated haha
Also I'm extremely okay with sequel shows, bring them on! Can't wait for The Jon Snow Show
Dance of the Dragons
The Long Night
Aegon the Conqueror
Doom of Valyria
Dornish Queen show
I think they made the right decision going for the Dance of the Dragons, even if I personally would have preferred the Blackfyre Rebellions. That being said, I'm glad they didn't do Dunk and Egg, it's just too close to the original material and I'm not really a big fan of their small scale adventures. Also even worse was that one Flea Bottom pitch that I really hated haha
Also I'm extremely okay with sequel shows, bring them on! Can't wait for The Jon Snow Show
I will say that, as much as I'd want to see Dunk & Egg, it's going to be hard for them to adapt that first book without people thinking of A Knight's Tale.
I don't think he ever openly said what it was, just that he checked himself into a mental care facility to deal with some stuff around the time the last season was airing.
The Dance of the Dragons is less a prequel in any sort of direct narrative sense, and more an exploration of exactly everything people loved about Westerosi politics in a different time period of the kingdom.
How come you aren't interested in that, out of curiosity? The story should be very compelling. Very arguably more so than even the peak political intrigue of the GoT show.
They also don't seem that interested in returning either.
But then, neither did Kit and he was the one that actually pitched Snow lol, so who the fuck knows at this point?
Agree, people will tune in for sure, and if it's good they'll stay.
Recent data seem to point to the IP still being ridiculously popular. We are about to find out anyhow. I suspect GoT's demise is overstated similarly to Avatar.
'Game of Thrones' still one of the world's biggest shows: Data
"House of the Dragon," the "Game of Thrones" prequel series, is pacing ahead of Amazon's upcoming "Lord of the Rings" series in engagement.
www.businessinsider.com
It's also the most bitter, cynical, and depressing story in Westeros history (and that is REALLY saying something) with a bleak and hopeless ending.
Almost every single character involved is is an unlikeable asshole. Those few that aren't either die horrible deaths or are left broken and depressed, and the entire war reduces House Targaryen to a burnt shadow of its glory from which it never recovers.
Everyone repeats that, but honestly, showrunner is a super stressful job, even if they just wanted to have a break and do something different after 8 years, that would've been completely fine
The problem is that they didn't just hand over the reigns to someone else, so GoT had to end when they left
Plenty of show creators have stepped away after a couple of seasons. And of course that's not always good because the quality might dip with other writers.
But well, we saw the quality of D&D's last seasons. And also they had Bryan Cogman right there to take over, who always seemed like a great guy, good writer and super respectful of the source material (a lot more repectful than D&D).
Dunk and Egg is still in development. It has a writer (Steve Conrad) and tellingly, GRRM has started to reemphasize on his blog the need to write more Dunk and Egg novellas.
House of the Dragon and Dunk and Egg were the two shows GRRM originally pitched and wanted made. So if HotD is successful, I think HBO will probably defer to George again and greenlight a pilot for Dunk and Egg.
A lot more interested in this new series after reading this. I dont know about a Game of Thrones franchise, but there are definitely more stories they can tell, as long as GRRM is part of the process.
The Jon Snow show is also something I would like to see.
The Jon Snow show is also something I would like to see.
I don't think every character is an asshole, most just become assholes as a result of the circumstances.
I thought the story was that HBO tried everything they could to get them to squeeze in a few more episodes, but they wanted to wrap things up fast because they wanted to move on to their Star Wars project.
EDIT: nvm i see it's already being discussed
mostly contractural reasons. show would be ridiculous expensive to hammer out a deal for another 2+ seasons, even for a show so successful
D&D said they wanted to end the show in 7 seasons for forever, don't think it had much to do with Star Wars.
D&D were smart anyway. Another two seasons wouldn't have changed the ending because GRRM still ain't done writing. We're three years past the ending and George still hasn't finished the next book. So, why would D&D sit there spinning around another two seasons when they still would be no closer to having an actual ending to follow?
My man. HBO are one of the few I'd trust to do it decently.
Kinda funny that The Dragon Demands, who vehemently despises James Hibberd, coined the phrase "The War of the Five Pitches" and then Hibberd goes and uses it in this article, even though no one else in the fandom really uses that phrase.
That would require George giving them such an ending. And the series having a "coherent" ending was dashed since Season 5.
I mean George told them the ending, they chose to rush to it
From all the pitches HBO got I have to say my favorite was the Doom of Valyria one - we would get more politicking but in a pseudo-Rome setting! How can you say no to that?! On the other hand, it might've had the same pitfalls as the Naomi Watts pilot: not enough info on the depicted setting, meaning it would probably diverge a lot from GRRM's ideas.
Long Night doesn't interest me at all in terms of TV, considering how stupid the whole White Walker business ended up becoming in GOT S8. Long Night in the books, however? Fuck yeah, give it to me.
Long Night doesn't interest me at all in terms of TV, considering how stupid the whole White Walker business ended up becoming in GOT S8. Long Night in the books, however? Fuck yeah, give it to me.
We don't know what George told them, and given his writing style it is highly unlikely he gave detailed notes on his ending. He might've told them Bran ends up on the Iron Throne, Daenerys goes crazy, and Jon Snow is exiled. But how he gets to those points and the fate of other minor characters I doubt he even knows at this point.
And you have to understand that by Season 5, the show had largely diverged from the books that adhering to Martin's endings would cause incoherence. Daenerys turning evil will likely make sense in the books due to how things are being setup. But the show cut all those plotlines and characters, so them having to still have her turn bad at the end proved challenging and a mess.
If you've read the books then you'd understand the last two novels greatly expanded the plot to the point that it is clear Martin himself cannot reign it back in. I seriously doubt he knows his end goal for a lot of those plots which all affect the larger plot. So no, giving the show an extra two seasons wouldn't solve this problem when Martin still ain't done writing.
Agreed. I'm all for HotD, but Old Valyria was actually really interesting to me. The budget would have had to be insane though.