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The Batman (2022) |OT| Riddle Me This [TAG SPOILERS]
- Thread starter ContractHolder
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Liked it, didn't love it. I felt it was missing an identity and that it wasn't nearly dark enough. It never really went for the jugular like I expected it to go. It felt really tame as well, like it was held back or something. I'd watch a sequel though, this was better than Nolan's efforts at least.
There's been a ton of Bruce Wayne interpretations that are similar to this Bruce. It's not a plot hole, lol.
I do agree with those saying the film is too dark/grim in tone.
Different versions of Batman and some may need to be dark/gritty/realistic, but taking too much fun away from the proceedings makes for something that isn't you know...Batman.
There's a lot of cheesy stuff in Nolan's movies, but one thing he understood is that these moves need a propulsive urgency about them to offset the terrible things like people dying in explosions or whatever.
Different versions of Batman and some may need to be dark/gritty/realistic, but taking too much fun away from the proceedings makes for something that isn't you know...Batman.
There's a lot of cheesy stuff in Nolan's movies, but one thing he understood is that these moves need a propulsive urgency about them to offset the terrible things like people dying in explosions or whatever.
From the Art of book: They have Martha Wayne looking like the demon from Exorcist lol.
I shouldn't laugh.
Also, I LOVED Batman in this, especially by the end. I think a lot of superhero stuff nowadays tends to (unfortunately imo) focus more on "stopping the bad guy's plan/beating him up" than straight up "saving people", and I really like how this movie kind of turned that on its head for Batman's growth.
I've seen mixed reactions to the 3rd act, but I feel like it was actually a highlight for that reason and really rounded out his arc. Seeing Bats reaching out a hand to guide people out of the wreckage, or gently comforting that woman who was clinging to him as she was airlifted out because she was scared. That was heartwarming af.
I've seen mixed reactions to the 3rd act, but I feel like it was actually a highlight for that reason and really rounded out his arc. Seeing Bats reaching out a hand to guide people out of the wreckage, or gently comforting that woman who was clinging to him as she was airlifted out because she was scared. That was heartwarming af.
This was a movie with a good script that was ruined by the director. 85% of the movie was just too dark to even see what the heck was going on. Even in scenes where there is supposed to be daylight is filmed with everyone wearing black clothes and cars that are dark as fuck. There is no shame in actually using lighting in the movie to actually show the audience that a movie is going on.
Best Catwoman since Michelle Pfeiffer? How can you even tell with everything so dark and all the action and acting covered in darkness?
Police investigation going on? Just swallow the room in darkness and have the cops bumbling around stepping all over the evidence instead of having proper lights to actually investigate.
Then you have Batman who is verifiable psychopath in this movie.
Just a bad movie overall.
Best Catwoman since Michelle Pfeiffer? How can you even tell with everything so dark and all the action and acting covered in darkness?
Police investigation going on? Just swallow the room in darkness and have the cops bumbling around stepping all over the evidence instead of having proper lights to actually investigate.
Then you have Batman who is verifiable psychopath in this movie.
The scene where he is chasing after the Penguin on the freaking freeway with all the innocent drivers getting blown up in a fiery burst of car explosions was just incredible. Instead of helping those people, Batman goes after Penguin, captures him, and interrogates him. Nothing about the people on the freeway who are burning to their fiery deaths.
Then the scene where the shooters are at the top of the arena shooting at the people below. He breaks through the glass ceiling by setting up explosives that shatter all the glass that falls at least 100 feet down on the people below is insane. What is he thinking trying to kill more innocent people?
Then the scene where the shooters are at the top of the arena shooting at the people below. He breaks through the glass ceiling by setting up explosives that shatter all the glass that falls at least 100 feet down on the people below is insane. What is he thinking trying to kill more innocent people?
Just a bad movie overall.
Looks like it was my TV. I just got a new Apple TV and it is making everything look darker than it should on my old calibration settings.
I am not sure if I want to go through that movie again. Just a very long movie and I am not sure I want to sit through it. Maybe later on if there is nothing else to watch.
I had that thought too when I rewatched the movie yesterday. Especially with how he raged out.
My partner suggested it was the Drops.
Can see why it wasn't some people's cup of tea, but holy hell did that movie really work for me. I loved the last act, which was a bit of a surprise after hearing it was the weakest bit from a few friends.
Some of these takes...yikes.
IMO, this was better than any MCU movie I've seen. For comparison, also, I think BvS and Justice League are worse than any MCU movie I've seen. This was an actual movie that came out and said something. Maybe it could have cut a bit, but overall it was fantastic. Also...people saying Bruce had no arc? Did they see the final 30 minutes where he realized that being an edge lord obsessed with revenge only hurt himself, and clearly realized he needs to mature? This was a young, flawed Batman who effectively lost to the Riddler. The only victory here was for Selena, and then for Bruce realizing the error of his current method. And for the guy dismissing all of cinematography as superfluous to movies...there is no point in even engaging someone like that. It's equivalent to saying that prose doesn't matter in a book as long as you get the characters from point A to B.
IMO, this was better than any MCU movie I've seen. For comparison, also, I think BvS and Justice League are worse than any MCU movie I've seen. This was an actual movie that came out and said something. Maybe it could have cut a bit, but overall it was fantastic. Also...people saying Bruce had no arc? Did they see the final 30 minutes where he realized that being an edge lord obsessed with revenge only hurt himself, and clearly realized he needs to mature? This was a young, flawed Batman who effectively lost to the Riddler. The only victory here was for Selena, and then for Bruce realizing the error of his current method. And for the guy dismissing all of cinematography as superfluous to movies...there is no point in even engaging someone like that. It's equivalent to saying that prose doesn't matter in a book as long as you get the characters from point A to B.
The only answer is that he has been there before Selina arrived like a true creeper
I'm a Marvel fanperson! I make this known, I do not hide it. Anyone who has ever followed my posting knows this...
The Batman is one of the best superhero movies ever made.
I watched it for the second time this weekend and I was still in awe.
Come one Warner Bros, give me a Superman movie with a bright color pallet and a message of hope.
I know you can, you gave me a Batman movie with a dark color pallet and a message of hope.
The Batman is one of the best superhero movies ever made.
I watched it for the second time this weekend and I was still in awe.
Come one Warner Bros, give me a Superman movie with a bright color pallet and a message of hope.
I know you can, you gave me a Batman movie with a dark color pallet and a message of hope.
Batman heard one of those incels say "I'm vengeance" and thought Jesus, I'm no better than these fools. It was about as clear as you could get and you still have people saying Batman had no arc.
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Just checked this out. Really enjoyed it. Glad we stayed with Batman for most of the film instead of them trying to build the Bruce Wayne side as well. Looking forward to the sequels and tv spinoffs based on this movie/universe. Was funny seeing John in this after watching him in Severance.
"This how I look sayin that?"
Batman's reaction to that was funny as hell.
"This how I look sayin that?"
I love the whole thing, but I think its really the tone of the finale that really makes this movie. The message of hope, especially with the usage of that song. It stirs something in me. I love a good dark Batman story, but he's more than that.
I liked this movie even more the second time.
I liked this movie even more the second time.
The best part of that scene to me was how the woman he carried to the stretcher was scared and clutched to his arm, but he paused for a moment unsure how to react only to realize he should place his hand on her arm to let her know she would be ok. It was such a great display of Batman making an effort to grow into the hero the people needed and learning to be more than just ¨vengeance¨.
Just finished watching it last night - I really, really liked this take on Batman. Extremely dark, as others are saying. It's basically Se7en with Batman. My wife commented how she was surprised this didn't get an 'R' rating and felt sorry for kids who went to this thinking they'd expect the normal superhero movie and got this instead. I imagine the ensuing nightmares, lol.
The Riddler was a great villain, and they couldn't have cast a better actor for the role.
At three hours long, this is more of a detective movie than an action one, although the action set pieces were amazing. Especially that car chase. I think making it a detective movie was a great choice - really brought Batman back to its roots.
Just a couple of spoilers I wanted to mention:
The Riddler was a great villain, and they couldn't have cast a better actor for the role.
At three hours long, this is more of a detective movie than an action one, although the action set pieces were amazing. Especially that car chase. I think making it a detective movie was a great choice - really brought Batman back to its roots.
Just a couple of spoilers I wanted to mention:
I wasn't familiar with the Martha Wayne backstory, and didn't know she was related to the Arkhams. And especially didn't know about the murder-suicide and controversy there. That was a fresh take that I wasn't expecting. It was a little talky in that third act, when Alfred comes out of his coma to deliver fully lucid exposition, and there was bit too much back and forth as to was Thomas Wayne corrupt, was he not, etc.
I also didn't know Falcone was Selina Kyle's father, but again looks like that had been established in a comic storyline. Since I was aware that these two storypoints were previously established in the comics, it kind of took me out of the movie a bit as I was thinking if they made some big changes in lore to satisfy the movie. Now that I better understand, again I really appreciate the fresh take and deep cuts from the comics.
I also didn't know Falcone was Selina Kyle's father, but again looks like that had been established in a comic storyline. Since I was aware that these two storypoints were previously established in the comics, it kind of took me out of the movie a bit as I was thinking if they made some big changes in lore to satisfy the movie. Now that I better understand, again I really appreciate the fresh take and deep cuts from the comics.
The first of your spoiler was represented in Earth One a bit. It definitely was fresh for cinema but not completely unique to the character.
Do projects get announced a Cinema Con? If so, I wonder if they'll announce the sequel there as a "Look, we're not going to abandon you" type of gesture.
Yes, I remember that The Lost City was announced last year at Cinemacon but they will probably hold up a sequel announcement for WB's annual DC Fandom stream.
YES. Exactly. That moment was really overdue in a Batman film. Wonderful
I didn't notice in the theater because the projection sucked, but he actually holds her hand the rest of the way until they start lifting her up too.
I just checked myself and yes you can see the second half of the word "-ephrine" on the capsule.
That's really too bad because it would've been a clever tease, and because epinephrine isn't some neon green colour.
Who knows, maybe he just happen to use the capsule to store whatever liquid inside. But it is unfortunate. Oh well.
That scene with the flare is also where the cinematography (wonderful throughout) was especially striking to me and where it was at its most impactful to the storytelling, with Batman acting as a literal beacon in the darkness to lead others to safety, signifying his acceptance of his new role.
i think it's the best batman movie. it's about batman and what it means for a guy to actually give himself to it. the next closest best thing in that realm is mask of the phantasm. the next best live action films are more about what batman means to people other than bruce.
I really liked how Batman spends the entire movie in the dark surrounded by cops but after his crisis of faith seeing someone else be all "I AM VENGEANCE!" his change in character is reflected by helping people in need out in daylight surrounded by Firefighters and rescue workers. He's literally coming out of the dark to become something greater. It was almost sad when he finally realized how much terror he spreads, even to the point that someone won't take his help while they're literally drowning in a stadium.
ooh that is a great point. i think if there's one major thing i have to pick against this movie, it's the 'not all cops' part towards the end, but i never thought about how that doesn't change until after his come to jesus moment.
i absolutely cannot understand the people who think the movie didn't need the third act. it's like... the point of the movie.
and look - i really love parts of the dark knight: the joker parts. heath ledger is astounding in the role and i would have loved a third movie with him in it. but the batman had me evaluate the way i see the dark knight trilogy in ways i hadn't considered.
batman begins: bruce goes through his 'the batman' phase in act one of the film. his come to jesus moment is that he can't stop all the crime in the city by being bruce wayne - he has to become a symbol to terrorize the criminals of the city. and in fairness he does start off by going after mobsters and a criminal conspiracy instead of going right after street thugs. like the batman, bruce can only really trust jim gordon - but that mostly comes from personal experience. the bad cop is obviously bad and corrupt - which is probably accurate. but he also isn't meant to be representative of the whole force. in the end, with the help of his love interest, his cop buddy, and his father figure, he takes down the ultimate bad guy before too much damage can be done to the city.
the dark knight: the actions of batman have started a positive change throughout gotham, but also brought about an element of chaos. bruce wants out so he can live a normal life. he's bruce wayne doing good guy stuff and the film is meant to show order=good vs. chaos=evil. the major setpiece in the middle of the film stars two police officers and eventually batman. the corrupt cops in this movie are corrupted because someone had something over them. there's one guy who also is about to do police brutality for funsies, which is probably more accurate, but it's not portrayed as a necessarily bad thing. bruce is willing to sacrifice batman a couple of times: at first to stop the joker kilings, and at the end to take the blame for harvey's serial killings. because at the end, good=order and it's better if people have faith in the institutions and that those institutions are working for them.
the dark knight rises: guess what: those institutions were lying to you. your former district attorney was actually a murderer. and the good apple and batman covered it up. but, like, you wouldn't get it, man.
the dark knight rises is the messiest thing here, because it really tries to make bruce a hero even though he was in the wrong. like people are against the thing you did and for a good reason. but that gets swept aside because there is a bigger threat out there that's gonna just kill everyone, so who cares about nuance am i right. batman fights alongside an army of cops in the daylight, up a flight of stairs towards a building of 'justice'. gordon's probably the most corrupt cop in the whole film because of that you know, whole cover-up thing. there's kind of a point of the rich ignoring the plight of the common people and that a reckoning was coming. this is overshadowed by a bigger threat out there that's gonna just kill everyone, because who cares about nuance am i right.
bruce was a hero in batman begins for being a symbol of... fear? in... criminals? to give hope i guess. in the dark knight, he's a hero because he shoulders the blame so that we can live in sweet, blissful ignorance. in the dark knight rises, he's a hero because he takes the nuke away from the city, solving gotham's societal problems i guess. the movie ends with a literal cop becoming the next actual batman.
the batman takes its sweet fucking time to do what it does. maybe parts of it can be shortened up. i think maybe it gets a little bogged down in batman figuring out who the rat is. bruce also finding out the movie's bad guy is actually a bad guy was a little too dumb for a 'detective' (although to be fair, falcone is convincing in that scene). fuck - those are just nitpicks though. the broader way the film presents the characters and its world just works. colson sold his soul for ten thousand dollars. why? probably because he was lazy. or greedy. he doesn't come across as scummy like the bad cop in batman begins or like anyone was holding something over him in the dark knight - he did what he did out of convenience. that's probably the most accurate depiction of corruption - people taking the easier option to live a better life at the expense of other people.
batman also punches a couple cops and doesn't appear to have a great working relationship with them otherwise. they mostly don't like or trust him in basically every scene he's present. gordon is given free reign to kinda do whatever he wants for some reason, but that's fine. the riddler stuff is pretty great in general if you go into it with the context that he thinks batman, his hero, is totally on his side. he sends riddles to batman in particular because he's looking for assistance (though i wonder what woulda happened if bruce wayne's email sent out a shitload of pics from that thumb drive).
batman returns tries to say that bruce is actually batman, and that bruce wayne is a mask. i don't think that's true. at least, i don't think the film is successful in portraying that. the dark knight trilogy is basically bruce wayne as batman. he plays dress-up for the good of the city for three movies, wanting out more and more with each film. the batman is the first film that goes at lengths to show that bruce is batman whether he likes it or not. reeves apparently likened it to bruce needing batman like a drug addict needing a fix. that comes through here more than any other live action film and it's so much better for it.
The film needed a third act, just a better one. One that didn't turn the villain into a cartoon caricature to serve the plot and main character and in a way that felt more at home in some 90's Batman film than this one
Though tbf, I'm not sure a single Batman movie I've seen has not had third act problems. It's like a constant of the series at this point.
Though tbf, I'm not sure a single Batman movie I've seen has not had third act problems. It's like a constant of the series at this point.
My main issue with the third arc is more on the execution. It's hard to explain in my thoughts but the first 2 arcs were very gritty and grounded with the focus on the detective side of Batman. It was very consistent and I really did enjoy that. But then the last arc has Gotham be flooded thanks to the explosions that Riddler setup and now it is turned more of a action set piece with Batman fighting Riddler's followers. It was an enjoyable set piece none the less but I just felt that it did went too much of the opposite direction in terms of feel in comparison to the first 2 arcs.
Despite that, I do enjoy that they showed Batman having to be more than vengeance with the Riddler's follower saying his catch phrase and how he had to save all those people trapped in the stadium. It was something quite unique to show in a Batman movie. I just wish the flood was replaced with something less bombastic.
Despite that, I do enjoy that they showed Batman having to be more than vengeance with the Riddler's follower saying his catch phrase and how he had to save all those people trapped in the stadium. It was something quite unique to show in a Batman movie. I just wish the flood was replaced with something less bombastic.