The Batman (2022) |OT| Riddle Me This [TAG SPOILERS]

[BossAttack]

and how about the rest of what I wrote?

Click to shrink...

It all it applies to that, he's a shit detective.

Spoiler

Batman: Everybody the Riddler has been apprehended!

Reporter: Awesome, did you manage to stop him from killing anyone else?
Batman: No, the Riddler successfully managed to kill every one of his targets on his list, well except for Bruce Wayne. 😏

R: Did you find out how he killed all those people on your own?
B: Well, he told us how he did it complete with live video tapes.

R: You at least discovered his identity in time, right?
B: No, we were unable to identify his true identity prior to apprehending him.

R: How did you end up catching him then?
B: Funny story, he turned himself in and then confessed again to everything with detail.

R: So, what exactly did you do?
B: I solved all his riddles. I'm really good at solving riddles, puzzles, really any sort of game.

R: Okay, but at least he's not committing any further crimes now that he's locked up, right?
B: ...

R: Right?!


Like, okay you spotted ecchymosis before the medical examiner looked at the body. But did you actually solve the case? Did you prevent a single murder? Did you personally apprehend the killer? If not, then you're a shit detective.

EDIT:

I just also realize how much of a drama queen The Riddler is in the film.

Spoiler

After he shoots Falcone, he bolts from the apartment which the police try and chase him and lose him. But then he proceeds to take off his mask and sit in a diner with the intention of getting caught. So, other than the sake of being a cool shot, why did he run all the way to the diner when he could've just surrendered in his own apartment?

 

[Dr PeterVenkman]

It all it applies to that, he's a shit detective.

Spoiler

Batman: Everybody the Riddler has been apprehended!

Reporter: Awesome, did you manage to stop him from killing anyone else?
Batman: No, the Riddler successfully managed to kill every one of his targets on his list, well except for Bruce Wayne. 😏

R: Did you find out how he killed all those people on your own?
B: Well, he told us how he did it complete with live video tapes.

R: You at least discovered his identity in time, right?
B: No, we were unable to identify his true identity prior to apprehending him.

R: How did you end up catching him then?
B: Funny story, he turned himself in and then confessed again to everything with detail.

R: So, what exactly did you do?
B: I solved all his riddles. I'm really good at solving riddles, puzzles, really any sort of game.

R: Okay, but at least he's not committing any further crimes now that he's locked up, right?
B: ...

R: Right?!


Like, okay you spotted ecchymosis before the medical examiner looked at the body. But did you actually solve the case? Did you prevent a single murder? Did you personally apprehend the killer? If not, then you're a shit detective.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

can you point to the evidence that he overlooked that he should have noticed that would have lead riddler's identity, or location, or literally anything your referring to? if a killer doesn't leave any evidence that leads to their identity. the person investigating the crime is not a bad detective for not arresting them.

that's such a bizarre take

 

[PanzerKraken]

It all it applies to that, he's a shit detective.

Spoiler

Batman: Everybody the Riddler has been apprehended!

Reporter: Awesome, did you manage to stop him from killing anyone else?
Batman: No, the Riddler successfully managed to kill every one of his targets on his list, well except for Bruce Wayne. 😏

R: Did you find out how he killed all those people on your own?
B: Well, he told us how he did it complete with live video tapes.

R: You at least discovered his identity in time, right?
B: No, we were unable to identify his true identity prior to apprehending him.

R: How did you end up catching him then?
B: Funny story, he turned himself in and then confessed again to everything with detail.

R: So, what exactly did you do?
B: I solved all his riddles. I'm really good at solving riddles, puzzles, really any sort of game.

R: Okay, but at least he's not committing any further crimes now that he's locked up, right?
B: ...

R: Right?!


Like, okay you spotted ecchymosis before the medical examiner looked at the body. But did you actually solve the case? Did you prevent a single murder? Did you personally apprehend the killer? If not, then you're a shit detective.

EDIT:

I just also realize how much of a drama queen The Riddler is in the film.

Spoiler

After he shoots Falcone, he bolts from the apartment which the police try and chase him and lose him. But then he proceeds to take off his mask and sit in a diner with the intention of getting caught. So, other than the sake of being a cool shot, why did he run all the way to the diner when he could've just surrendered in his own apartment?

Click to shrink...

I mean that was the point,

Spoiler: Batman

he played Batman the whole time. As for not saving anyone, well no Batman saves a ton of people at the end during the stadium invasion and that it was a turning point for this character as he now is no longer about vengeance and fear, but to be a hero and now "out in the light" for Gotham as hope.

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

You're weirdly hostile about this. There isn't any issue with it from a "mythos" perspective but it really serves no purpose in the movie or to Bruce's journey in the movie, so it's only really there to sequel bait, and not everyone wants or needs that. I don't see an issue with liking OR not liking its inclusion.

Click to shrink...

If I came across as hostile, it would only be because I'm way too tired of the same talking points people keep making but refuse to elaborate, like how "the third act was executed poorly".

 

[BossAttack]

Spoiler

can you point to the evidence that he overlooked that he should have noticed that would have lead riddler's identity, or location, or literally anything your referring to? if a killer doesn't leave any evidence that leads to their identity. the person investigating the crime is not a bad detective for not arresting them.

that's such a bizarre take

Click to shrink...

Yes, the point is he does not attempt in anyway to locate or identify The Riddler.

Spoiler

For example:

• We never get a scene where he tries to trace the Riddler's IP address. Never attempts to locate one of his 500 followers on his weird social media.
• We never get a scene where he attempts to locate the Riddler from the trace elements of whatever clues he left behind. Ex: "There's a thin layer of red dust on this maze he built, analysis suggests it comes from a specific type of brick only used in Gotham during the late 1800's in kiln fire factories."
• He never attempts to identify the Riddler through the various clues he gets, even after being led to the orphanage. Ex: "Alfred, the killer appears to be a white male in their 30's who spent their childhood in this specific orphanage. Run a search for every child with that description that passed through that orphanage between 1985-1991. Cross-reference with any reports of violence or mental illness noted in the children. Remove any children without glasses."
• He never attempts to goad the Riddler into revealing more through psychological manipulation. When he chats or speaks with the Riddler it's always business like as he waits for the next clue. And when they finally meet face-to-face it's the Riddler that psychologically breaks him.
• He never attempts handwriting analysis, word analysis, never does a psychological profile of the killer to anticipate next targets.
• I could go on.

Meanwhile, TDK at least shows Bruce trying to find the Joker even when it fails. We first see him trying to do facial analysis for a match, but it fails either due to makeup or him not existing in any database. We later see him attempt to lift the Joker's fingerprint off of a shell casing he manages to reconstruct, it fails as the Joker anticipated this. The whole film is an actual cat and mouse game between the two and not simply one being blindly led by the other.

 

[OSHAN]

In my imaginary cut

Spoiler

the movie has its The Batman/Riddler convo at Arkham, there's no bomb plot, Batman realizing he got played and is inspiring the "wrong" type of people, and understands he needs to change his approach; has the same convo with Catwoman, the end.

Embrace the noir genre, and it's 40 minutes shorter. 4 out of 4 bats.

 

[Dabanton]

In my imaginary cut

Spoiler

the movie has its The Batman/Riddler convo at Arkham, there's no bomb plot, Batman realizing he got played and is inspiring the "wrong" type of people, and understands he needs to change his approach; has the same convo with Catwoman, the end.

Embrace the noir genre, and it's 40 minutes shorter. 4 out of 4 bats.

Click to shrink...

But then the people of Gotham wouldn't know

Spoiler

that Batman went to bat for them. He'd still be the scary dude that the guy he rescued at the beginning of the film saw and feared.

I know some people didn't like the third act but its Batman showing himself on the world stage as a beacon to people.

He needed that and we needed that.

Now he has a clear path and the city has a guardian

 

[BossAttack]

But then the people of Gotham wouldn't know

Spoiler

that Batman went to bat for them. He'd still be the scary dude that the guy he rescued at the beginning of the film saw and feared.

I know some people didn't like the third act but its Batman showing himself on the world stage as a beacon to people.

He needed that and we needed that.

Now he has a clear path and the city has a guardian

Click to shrink...

Well, it's dirty but the film could

Spoiler

just introduce an ending montage of Batman helping people and not being a scary vengeance seeker.

 

[OSHAN]

But then the people of Gotham wouldn't know

Spoiler

that Batman went to bat for them. He'd still be the scary dude that the guy he rescued at the beginning of the film saw and feared.

I know some people didn't like the third act but its Batman showing himself on the world stage as a beacon to people.

He needed that and we needed that.

Now he has a clear path and the city has a guardian

Click to shrink...

That can easily be conveyed in the sequel within the first 2 minutes.

 

[Dr PeterVenkman]

Yes, the point is he does not attempt in anyway to locate or identify The Riddler.

Spoiler

For example:

• We never get a scene where he tries to trace the Riddler's IP address. Never attempts to locate one of his 500 followers on his weird social media.
• We never get a scene where he attempts to locate the Riddler from the trace elements of whatever clues he left behind. Ex: "There's a thin layer of red dust on this maze he built, analysis suggests it comes from a specific type of brick only used in Gotham during the late 1800's in kiln fire factories."
• He never attempts to identify the Riddler through the various clues he gets, even after being led to the orphanage. Ex: "Alfred, the killer appears to be a white male in their 30's who spent their childhood in this specific orphanage. Run a search for every child with that description that passed through that orphanage between 1985-1991. Cross-reference with any reports of violence or mental illness noted in the children. Remove any children without glasses."
• He never attempts to goad the Riddler into revealing more through psychological manipulation. When he chats or speaks with the Riddler it's always business like as he waits for the next clue. And when they finally meet face-to-face it's the Riddler that psychologically breaks him.
• He never attempts handwriting analysis, word analysis, never does a psychological profile of the killer to anticipate next targets.
• I could go on.

Meanwhile, TDK at least shows Bruce trying to find the Joker even when it fails. We first see him trying to do facial analysis for a match, but it fails either due to makeup or him not existing in any database. We later see him attempt to lift the Joker's fingerprint off of a shell casing he manages to reconstruct, it fails as the Joker anticipated this. The whole film is an actual cat and mouse game between the two and not simply one being blindly led by the other.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

i'll give you the orphanage....that would have been a nice touch. he technically does try to psych profile him but they cut that scene. i'm not sure exactly who he'd do handwriting analysis on. you need a suspect for that.

do you have experience with investigation and police work? correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like you're just naming very tropey movie detective things. and you're disappointed that it was different

 

[PopsMaellard]

That can easily be conveyed in the sequel within the first 2 minutes.

Click to shrink...

You want the arc from the first film to be left hanging and then completed in the first two minutes of a sequel?

 

[OSHAN]

You want the arc from the first film to be left hanging and then completed in the first two minutes of a sequel?

Click to shrink...

Arc is complete for Batman--showing citizens isn't integral to that, the audience knows. It's certainly a much bleaker movie, but tonally more consistent. What it is not consistent with is a traditional cape movie, which The Batman really isn't up until the third act.

I still really enjoyed the movie. I've seen it two damn times already.

 

[Serpens007]

Yes, the point is he does not attempt in anyway to locate or identify The Riddler.

Spoiler

For example:

• We never get a scene where he tries to trace the Riddler's IP address. Never attempts to locate one of his 500 followers on his weird social media.
• We never get a scene where he attempts to locate the Riddler from the trace elements of whatever clues he left behind. Ex: "There's a thin layer of red dust on this maze he built, analysis suggests it comes from a specific type of brick only used in Gotham during the late 1800's in kiln fire factories."
• He never attempts to identify the Riddler through the various clues he gets, even after being led to the orphanage. Ex: "Alfred, the killer appears to be a white male in their 30's who spent their childhood in this specific orphanage. Run a search for every child with that description that passed through that orphanage between 1985-1991. Cross-reference with any reports of violence or mental illness noted in the children. Remove any children without glasses."
• He never attempts to goad the Riddler into revealing more through psychological manipulation. When he chats or speaks with the Riddler it's always business like as he waits for the next clue. And when they finally meet face-to-face it's the Riddler that psychologically breaks him.
• He never attempts handwriting analysis, word analysis, never does a psychological profile of the killer to anticipate next targets.
• I could go on.

Meanwhile, TDK at least shows Bruce trying to find the Joker even when it fails. We first see him trying to do facial analysis for a match, but it fails either due to makeup or him not existing in any database. We later see him attempt to lift the Joker's fingerprint off of a shell casing he manages to reconstruct, it fails as the Joker anticipated this. The whole film is an actual cat and mouse game between the two and not simply one being blindly led by the other.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

Batman spends the whole movie trying to anticipate the Riddler and getting to him through that, it also ourright tells us that Batman knows that he's being played by Riddler but that there is no other way he can get to him outside of that. It's implicit that Riddler covers his traces rather good. It would have been cool to have more exposition to understand a pretty obvious thing, but I guess the movie was already too long.

In any case, I think one of the movie's goals was precisely to show that Batman still has a very long way to go.

 

[More_Badass]

Spoiler

Batman spends the whole movie trying to anticipate the Riddler and getting to him through that, it also ourright tells us that Batman knows that he's being played by Riddler but that there is no other way he can get to him outside of that. It's implicit that Riddler covers his traces rather good. It would have been cool to have more exposition to understand a pretty obvious thing, but I guess the movie was already too long.

In any case, I think one of the movie's goals was precisely to show that Batman still has a very long way to go.

Click to shrink...

Also to that point, TDK Batman had the resources and tech of Wayne Enterprises, and the tacit support of the GCPD behind him.

Despite the costume, this Batman is essentially still at the "Now we're two" stage of Batman Begins

 

[Tophat Jones]

I agree that

Spoiler

Batman was just along for the ride, without imposing his will on anything. While the Riddler manipulated everything and everyone to move the plot forward. But I think it kind of works for this one. Even though we have this two-year window he's been active, it still feels like an origin story where Batman needs to find out how he can help and what's he up against. Him being played like a fiddle for a full three hours could be part of a good arc, assuming they kind of follow that story thread for the sequels. Or at least have him learn from it.

 

[Alienous]

The more I think about the movie the more I appreciate how they handled the Riddler.

Spoiler

It's probably the best justification for why there would be a villain who leaves riddles. It's usually just an egomaniacal motive or a pathological one.

Leveraging the fact that GCPD is corrupt is smart. He didn't just decide one day he wanted to leave riddles. The riddles weren't ever taunts, but cryptic messages he wanted to go over their heads. Seeing Batman as his intellectual and moral equal he's just trying to send notes during class that the teacher can't read.

That recontexualization of all of the 'To the Batman' letters is a really smart twist.

 

[BossAttack]

Spoiler

i'll give you the orphanage....that would have been a nice touch. he technically does try to psych profile him but they cut that scene. i'm not sure exactly who he'd do handwriting analysis on. you need a suspect for that.

do you have experience with investigation and police work? correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like you're just naming very tropey movie detective things. and you're disappointed that it was different

Click to shrink...

These are all common police investigation techniques and tools. The only difference is that in fiction the investigation/analysis time is sped up. It would take weeks, if not more, before the lab comes back with any DNA results or trace analysis. I'm not sure why you think these are tropes yet everything happening in the film isn't? It's a fictional story, it's riddled with tropes. Tropes are not inherently bad as every story has tropes.

Spoiler

Batman just comes off as incompetent by refusing to do any actual investigative work. He just assumes it's all hopeless and spends his time solving riddles.

Regarding the handwriting, it goes back to creating a psych profile. Handwriting experts can create profiles based on some ones writing style including their literal handwriting style as well as grammar and prose. Why does the Riddler right so sloppily? Why does he use these specific symbols? Is there a personal connection between the symbols and him? Why does he use these specific words and sentences? Why does he wear green?

Quick example how this could come together, "it appears the Riddler uses a combination of astrological signs and Norse symbols to write their messages, all of which stem from end of the world texts. We see repeated references to words like 'rats,' filth,' 'dirt,' and the need to 'cleanse.' I think it's clear the killer's end goal is to attempt some form of cleansing of Gotham. The killings are merely a preceding action to the main event."

It doesn't matter whether Batman succeeds or not, but he has to at least ATTEMPT to be detective and not just say, "sorry, it's impossible. We gotta do things the Riddler's way," the whole film.

Spoiler

Batman spends the whole movie trying to anticipate the Riddler and getting to him through that, it also ourright tells us that Batman knows that he's being played by Riddler but that there is no other way he can get to him outside of that. It's implicit that Riddler covers his traces rather good. It would have been cool to have more exposition to understand a pretty obvious thing, but I guess the movie was already too long.

In any case, I think one of the movie's goals was precisely to show that Batman still has a very long way to go.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

Batman says this, but nothing in the film shows The Riddler doesn't make mistakes, especially when I can point out several ways he could've been tracked from the start. See above.

 

[More_Badass]

These are all common police investigation techniques and tools. The only difference is that in fiction the investigation/analysis time is sped up. It would take weeks, if not more, before the lab comes back with any DNA results or trace analysis. I'm not sure why you think these are tropes yet everything happening in the film isn't? It's a fictional story, it's riddled with tropes. Tropes are not inherently bad as every story has tropes.

Spoiler

Batman just comes off as incompetent by refusing to do any actual investigative work. He just assumes it's all hopeless and spends his time solving riddles.

Regarding the handwriting, it goes back to creating a psych profile. Handwriting experts can create profiles based on some ones writing style including their literal handwriting style as well as grammar and prose. Why does the Riddler right so sloppily? Why does he use these specific symbols? Is there a personal connection between the symbols and him? Why does he use these specific words and sentences? Why does he wear green?

Quick example how this could come together, "it appears the Riddler uses a combination of astrological signs and Norse symbols to write their messages, all of which stem from end of the world texts. We see repeated references to words like 'rats,' filth,' 'dirt,' and the need to 'cleanse.' I think it's clear the killer's end goal is to attempt some form of cleansing of Gotham. The killings are merely a preceding action to the main event."

It doesn't matter whether Batman succeeds or not, but he has to at least ATTEMPT to be detective and not just say, "sorry, it's impossible. We gotta do things the Riddler's way," the whole film.

Spoiler

Batman says this, but nothing in the film shows The Riddler doesn't make mistakes, especially when I can point out several ways he could've been tracked from the start. See above.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

This Batman was "home-schooled" to fight and such by Alfred; I think you're basing your impression on what he should have been based on like world-traveling TAS/Nolan Batman or been-doing-it-for-decades Batman of the comics than the one that the movie established. This Batman didn't have enough knowledge of the criminal/working class element to know what the carpet tool was or how he was putting Selina in danger when he sent her into the club. But you expect him to analyze handwriting on a psycho-socio-cultural level?

 

[Mekanos]

Yeah I don't know about all that hyperbole on that scene , felt like I was listening to the Whiz Khalifa song. Also going back to the club so many damn times too felt tired

Click to shrink...

Yeah that was weird to me too, felt like a video game side quest where you have to return to the same place over and over. I think they could have come up with a different way for Bruce to meet Falcone to cut down at least one of those scenes.

 

[Serpens007]

These are all common police investigation techniques and tools. The only difference is that in fiction the investigation/analysis time is sped up. It would take weeks, if not more, before the lab comes back with any DNA results or trace analysis. I'm not sure why you think these are tropes yet everything happening in the film isn't? It's a fictional story, it's riddled with tropes. Tropes are not inherently bad as every story has tropes.

Spoiler

Batman just comes off as incompetent by refusing to do any actual investigative work. He just assumes it's all hopeless and spends his time solving riddles.

Regarding the handwriting, it goes back to creating a psych profile. Handwriting experts can create profiles based on some ones writing style including their literal handwriting style as well as grammar and prose. Why does the Riddler right so sloppily? Why does he use these specific symbols? Is there a personal connection between the symbols and him? Why does he use these specific words and sentences? Why does he wear green?

Quick example how this could come together, "it appears the Riddler uses a combination of astrological signs and Norse symbols to write their messages, all of which stem from end of the world texts. We see repeated references to words like 'rats,' filth,' 'dirt,' and the need to 'cleanse.' I think it's clear the killer's end goal is to attempt some form of cleansing of Gotham. The killings are merely a preceding action to the main event."

It doesn't matter whether Batman succeeds or not, but he has to at least ATTEMPT to be detective and not just say, "sorry, it's impossible. We gotta do things the Riddler's way," the whole film.

Spoiler

Batman says this, but nothing in the film shows The Riddler doesn't make mistakes, especially when I can point out several ways he could've been tracked from the start. See above.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

Uh... yeah, in fact, a central plot point is an example of how The Riddler actually doesn't make mistakes. "El Rata Alada" was assumed to be a mistake but it wasn't. He specifically made a typo in spanish to be two riddles in one. His only mistake is to think that The Batman had his same goal, but other than that, it's pretty stated from the first crime scene that The Riddler is a perfect serial killer

 

[Azzanadra]

This was phenomenal. Wow. I have become so jaded and fatigued by superhero movies (thanks Disney) but this movie had me glued to my seat in a way very few cape flicks manage to do.

The world they created is a very grounded one, but I still hope we can get Batman's more fantastical foes. Give me Clayface.

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

Guess we know who's been binge-watching Criminal Minds re-runs during the weekend.

 

[rashbeep]

It all it applies to that, he's a shit detective.

Spoiler

Batman: Everybody the Riddler has been apprehended!

Reporter: Awesome, did you manage to stop him from killing anyone else?
Batman: No, the Riddler successfully managed to kill every one of his targets on his list, well except for Bruce Wayne. 😏

R: Did you find out how he killed all those people on your own?
B: Well, he told us how he did it complete with live video tapes.

R: You at least discovered his identity in time, right?
B: No, we were unable to identify his true identity prior to apprehending him.

R: How did you end up catching him then?
B: Funny story, he turned himself in and then confessed again to everything with detail.

R: So, what exactly did you do?
B: I solved all his riddles. I'm really good at solving riddles, puzzles, really any sort of game.

R: Okay, but at least he's not committing any further crimes now that he's locked up, right?
B: ...

R: Right?!


Like, okay you spotted ecchymosis before the medical examiner looked at the body. But did you actually solve the case? Did you prevent a single murder? Did you personally apprehend the killer? If not, then you're a shit detective.

EDIT:

I just also realize how much of a drama queen The Riddler is in the film.

Spoiler

After he shoots Falcone, he bolts from the apartment which the police try and chase him and lose him. But then he proceeds to take off his mask and sit in a diner with the intention of getting caught. So, other than the sake of being a cool shot, why did he run all the way to the diner when he could've just surrendered in his own apartment?

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

because he had to order a latte with the "?" art duh!

 

[More_Badass]

This was phenomenal. Wow. I have become so jaded and fatigued by superhero movies (thanks Disney) but this movie had me glued to my seat in a way very few cape flicks manage to do.

The world they created is a very grounded one, but I still hope we can get Batman's more fantastical foes. Give me Clayface.

Click to shrink...

A lot of people keep saying that, but I disagree. Okay maybe not entirely considering this had a Bat wingsuit instead of using the cape, but overall this felt more pulpy and heightened than the Nolan trilogy ever did. '70s New York fused with Burton Gotham, filtered through Blade Runner's grime and decay. Seemed like any villain could emerge from this Gotham, no matter how unnatural

 

[NinjaScooter]

A lot of people keep saying that, but I disagree. Okay maybe not entirely considering this had a Bat wingsuit instead of using the cape, but overall this felt more pulpy and heightened than the Nolan trilogy ever did. '70s New York fused with Burton Gotham, filtered through Blade Runner's grime and decay. Seemed like any villain could emerge from this Gotham, no matter how unnatural

Click to shrink...

There was definitely sci-fi elements but I thought even those were handled well. like all of Bruce's computer equipment in the bat cave looked worn down and sort of shitty, even the contact lens cameras, which were probably the most "high tech/scifi" thing in the movie, had a video feed that was still consistent with the grimy feel of the movie.

 

[Khanimus]

Arc is complete for Batman--showing citizens isn't integral to that, the audience knows. It's certainly a much bleaker movie, but tonally more consistent. What it is not consistent with is a traditional cape movie, which The Batman really isn't up until the third act.

I still really enjoyed the movie. I've seen it two damn times already.

Click to shrink...

lol how he perceives his influence to the city is entirely integral to that.

 

[Kaswa101]

People in this thread have some of the worst filmmaking ideas I've ever heard lol

 

[Lifejumper]

People in this thread have some of the worst filmmaking ideas I've ever heard lol

Click to shrink...

Would make some fine WB executives.

 

[BossAttack]

Spoiler

because he had to order a latte with the "?" art duh!

Click to shrink...

Also I think he drew the ? himself in the foam.

 

[More_Badass]

Spoiler

It should be reiterated that this early Batman could have stopped many of the schemes and threats that are taken to fruition if he wasn't wholly focused on being just Batman and just beating on the criminal element. He misses the larger corruption ties to his company and the Riddler ties to his own life until it's too late purely because of his unhealthy imbalance of Batman to Bruce

So not incompetent as much as misguided and myopic

 

[VorpalNonsense]

People in this thread have some of the worst filmmaking ideas I've ever heard lol

Click to shrink...

 

[super-heated plasma]

I really dont like How Bruce is an anti-socialite in this film. Other adaptations of having Bruce Wayne be a playboy are spot on. It's not much of a stretch to think that the brooding billionaire recluse might be the weirdo who goes around dressed up as a bat.

 

[OSHAN]

lol how he perceives his influence to the city is entirely integral to that.

Click to shrink...

I agree it is a cape movie at the end and we need the ham. I just think of Chinatown, Angel Heart, Se7en, and so on. It is what it is. I'll be getting the 4k regardless.

 

[Deleted member 81119]

I really dont like How Bruce is an anti-socialite in this film. Other adaptations of having Bruce Wayne be a playboy are spot on. It's not much of a stretch to think that the brooding billionaire recluse might be the weirdo who goes around dressed up as a bat.

Click to shrink...

I feel like in the sequel he'll become more or a playboy.

 

[super-heated plasma]

I feel like in the sequel he'll become more or a playboy.

Click to shrink...

Well, I suppose. But hes already been Batman for two years so...should be kind of too late I would think. Plus Gotham is already used to him being anti-social, so to suddenly become a social butterfly would raise even more questions I would think.

 

[Khanimus]

I really dont like How Bruce is an anti-socialite in this film. Other adaptations of having Bruce Wayne be a playboy are spot on. It's not much of a stretch to think that the brooding billionaire recluse might be the weirdo who goes around dressed up as a bat.

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This is a Batman who has let Bruce Wayne (as a public facing expression and a notion of his own identity) completely atrophy. There is a point to that - he doesn't see Bruce as having any purpose, and he doesn't perceive his mission to be anything other than doling out violence.

Spoiler

And thus why he has to realize that doing so has only perpetuated Gotham's downfall. Still putting on parties would go against this film's expression that this Batman is like a ravenous vampire.

 

[effzee]

Also I think he drew the ? himself in the foam.

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While I enjoyed it a LOT and def a lot more than you, I did get the same sense. There is no big mystery, revelation, or moment where Batman out does the Riddler and gets ahead of him.

Spoiler

The Riddle only fails when he foolishly assumed he and the Batman are on the same side. I would have loved if after failing to stop the mayor murder, commissioner, that Bruce at some point figured out on his own who the Riddler was and stopped him from killing Falcone. That instead they set a trap for the Riddler to draw him out. You could still have the plot of what happened with Thomas Wayne, Renewal, and Falcone running the city. Hell you could have had Batman get 1 step ahead of the Riddler, capture him, and then the Riddle reveal his final flooding the city idea. As is in this movie, Batman never really learns or out smarts the villain.

That all said, like with TDK, you can nitpick and tear away at the plot. TDK has been ripped apart. Begins. God knows TDKR has. Still incredible movies IMO that I can always watch and enjoy. And I loved this one as well.

 

[PennyStonks]

I cant stop thinking about those meaty boot sounds when batman would walk in

Also its obvious this batman is bad at the job. He not only fails in the movie, but he has been failing for 2 years. Not only batman but Bruce too

I expect that orphanage will be getting some big and public funding in the future. The Waynes raised these terrorists. And Batman only set fire to the flame

 

[Rod]

God forbid The Long Halloween... one of the most celebrated Batman novels ever: an story where Batman gets beaten 3/4 of the time, both intelectually and physically, that he can't figure out the holiday killer for a very long time (the assassin keeps killing people for a whole year, mind you), ends up not being able to protect one of his biggest and most important friends/allies, and when finally catches the cuprit after guessing wrongly twice or thrice, turns out not really sure if was it 100% the correct outcome/conclusion - even up to the actual days.

If we wish, we can sum up that story this way.

Still, amongst the most loved tales of the dark knight. Must have it's qualities, too, I take it.

No worries, he'll eventually catch up to his Grant Morrison Batman R.I.P days, where he has a plan and contigency for just about everything. Just a process of development.

 

[Peru]

It nails the tone and style, which is ultimately the most important thing I guess. The script, especially the dialogue, is sometimes bad, often clumsy. But the Bat-man stomps convincingly through the film. I won't mind a couple more of these - but the next relaunch needs to be bright, fun and the opposite of gritty.

 

[Khanimus]

God forbid The Long Halloween... one of the most celebrated Batman novels ever: an story where Batman gets beaten 3/4 of the time, both intelectually and physically, that he can't figure out the holiday killer for a very long time (the assassin keeps killing people for a whole year, mind you), ends up not being able to protect one of his biggest and most important friends/allies, and when finally catches the cuprit after guessing wrongly twice or thrice, turns out not really sure if was it 100% the correct outcome/conclusion - even up to the actual days.

If we wish, we can sum up that story this way.

Still, amongst the most loved tales of the dark knight. Must have it's qualities, too, I take it.

No worries, he'll eventually catch up to his Grant Morrison Batman R.I.P days, where he has a plan and contigency for just about everything. Just a process of development.

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They were literally giving away copies of The Long Halloween #1 at my showing too lol

 

[BossAttack]

While I enjoyed it a LOT and def a lot more than you, I did get the same sense. There is no big mystery, revelation, or moment where Batman out does the Riddler and gets ahead of him.

Spoiler

The Riddle only fails when he foolishly assumed he and the Batman are on the same side. I would have loved if after failing to stop the mayor murder, commissioner, that Bruce at some point figured out on his own who the Riddler was and stopped him from killing Falcone. That instead they set a trap for the Riddler to draw him out. You could still have the plot of what happened with Thomas Wayne, Renewal, and Falcone running the city. Hell you could have had Batman get 1 step ahead of the Riddler, capture him, and then the Riddle reveal his final flooding the city idea. As is in this movie, Batman never really learns or out smarts the villain.

That all said, like with TDK, you can nitpick and tear away at the plot. TDK has been ripped apart. Begins. God knows TDKR has. Still incredible movies IMO that I can always watch and enjoy. And I loved this one as well.

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I mean, I enjoyed it. It's a damn good mood piece. I just feel the Nolan films are better overall. It's weird I remember leaving TDK and immediately wanting to see it again. And I did like three more times. But with this I was like, "that was pretty good, long, but not bad. But I don't need to see it again."

 

[Deleted member 81119]

I mean, I enjoyed it. It's a damn good mood piece. I just feel the Nolan films are better overall. It's weird I remember leaving TDK and immediately wanting to see it again. And I did like three more times. But with this I was like, "that was pretty good, long, but not bad. But I don't need to see it again."

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I'm the opposite. I do still prefer The Dark Knight and even the Dark Knight rises. But this film has lingered in the same way as those two films did. I like The Batman more than Batman Begins.

 

[Spehornoob]

The Long Halloween is so fucking good. This movie, and how often Batman fucks up and fails in it, reminds me very much of TLH.

 

[lemmykoopah]

Anyone else noticed the part early in the film where he beats up a thug in the subway was way more brutal in the trailer? In the trailer it was like 10 punches with a very punchy hit sound and the movie is a few punches and less oomph to the sound effect.

 

[Lifejumper]

even the Dark Knight rises

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Nani da fuk.

 

[BossAttack]

Nani da fuk.

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TDKR is a damn good film.

 

[Solo]

Riddle me this - what movie fucking slaps harder on the second viewing? This fucking one. Wow, I already loved it mostly but with reservations after seeing it initially on Saturday, but this thing plays soooo much better the second time through. I'm now fully of the belief that this is the best Batman movie ever.

It has the best script (I actually like the cleverness of a lot of the Riddler stuff and how a rat with wings does kinda fit with each and all of Penguin/Falcone/Batman), the best acting, the best set and costume design, unquestionably the best cinematography and is probably the best directed too.

I mentioned before that I wasn't sure if Bruce Wayne appeared in a single shot of the movie, that it was Batman the whole way through, and how unique of a take that was. I think I'd backtrack a bit and say Bruce is in there, however he is in a state of arrested development. He's a 10 year old boy inside who hasn't gotten over his trauma. And instead of looking within himself to find Batman like most previous incarnations of the character, this time he is using Batman to try to climb out of his trauma. Just a staggeringly cool and unique take on the character that I don't think we've ever seen onscreen before.

Also, in every Batman movie we are shown that criminals are afraid of Batman. Just because. I feel like this is the first movie that actually shows why. The scenes of hearing his footsteps in the dark and his ghostly visage bleeding out of the darkness is just *chef's kiss*

And the third act? It's still too long but goddamnit, it works beautifully. Batman's presence and the chicken and egg scenario of it also creating and inspiring the mania around him is something that has been discussed for years but this is the first movie to really do a deep dive into that and come out the other side with the realization that it isn't enough to mercilessly beat thugs to a pulp in the darkness and that he has to step into the light and be a symbol of hope.

 

[J_Viper]

TDKR is a damn good film.

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I'm with you

TDKR is often unfocused and sloppy, but Nolan knows how to make his films look and feel grand

Also, I didn't catch this until my rewatch last year, but TDKR strikes me.as a film about Bruce descent into depression and his eventually rise out of it.

I relate to that much more now that I did in 2012

The escape from the Lazarus scene hit me harder with that in mind.

Riddle me this - what movie fucking slaps harder on the second viewing? This fucking one. Wow, I already loved it mostly but with reservations after seeing it initially on Saturday, but this thing plays soooo much better the second time through. I'm now fully of the belief that this is the best Batman movie ever.

It has the best script (I actually like the cleverness of a lot of the Riddler stuff and how a rat with wings does kinda fit with each and all of Penguin/Falcone/Batman), the best acting, the best set and costume design, unquestionably the best cinematography and is probably the best directed too.

I mentioned before that I wasn't sure if Bruce Wayne appeared in a single shot of the movie, that it was Batman the whole way through, and how unique of a take that was. I think I'd backtrack a bit and say Bruce is in there, however he is in a state of arrested development. He's a 10 year old boy inside who hasn't gotten over his trauma. And instead of looking within himself to find Batman like most previous incarnations of the character, this time he is using Batman to try to climb out of his trauma. Just a staggeringly cool and unique take on the character that I don't think we've ever seen onscreen before.

And the third act? It's still too long but goddamnit, it works beautifully. Batman's presence and the chicken and egg scenario of it also creating and inspiring the mania around him is something that has been discussed for years but this is the first movie to really do a deep dive into that and come out the other side with the realization that it isn't enough to mercilessly beat thugs to a pulp in the darkness and that he has to step into the light and be a symbol of hope.

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I'm thinking the same thing will happen to me this weekend

 

[Pau]

They were literally giving away copies of The Long Halloween #1 at my showing too lol

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Should have bundled it with Dark Victory so people would ask for that next.