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The Batman (2022) |OT| Riddle Me This [TAG SPOILERS]
- Thread starter ContractHolder
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Watched it last night. Easily the best live action Batman movie but Mask of the Phantasm is still the GOAT.
I loved it. The tone and atmosphere was 10/10. It's nice to finally see Gotham on screen instead of just a slightly shittier Chicago. Performances were great all round. I loved the fact they went full Dredd and kept Pattinson in the costume for basically the whole movie. Was nice seeing the characters interact like it was just a day on the job. All the third act complaints I saw on here were totally overblown imo I really enjoyed it. It felt like an escalation in scale but didn't betray what came before it.
My only issues were that it was hard to see a lot of what was happening due to blurriness and darkness but maybe that was just my cinema.
I loved it. The tone and atmosphere was 10/10. It's nice to finally see Gotham on screen instead of just a slightly shittier Chicago. Performances were great all round. I loved the fact they went full Dredd and kept Pattinson in the costume for basically the whole movie. Was nice seeing the characters interact like it was just a day on the job. All the third act complaints I saw on here were totally overblown imo I really enjoyed it. It felt like an escalation in scale but didn't betray what came before it.
My only issues were that it was hard to see a lot of what was happening due to blurriness and darkness but maybe that was just my cinema.
film wise the instant GCPD heel turn from insanely corrupt to good guys gave me huge whiplash and it felt like either they cut that narrative for time or the studio meddled because copaganda. Also THAT cameo was totally unnecessary and took me out the movie. Jesus can we not go two minutes without this character.
It was pretty nonsense. Batman was like knocked out on the ground, then suddenly the batmobile starts revving up. I know it's his thing to walk around undetected but this is a bit much..In general I found the car chase to be a bit of mess that was pretty hard to follow for the most part.
edit: ahah Kermode brought up this exact same complaint in his review. The chase was like watching Batman and the Pengiun driving in a total void with like zero sense of space and direction.
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Why haven't we got a spoiler thread for this film yet? You have the witty OT right there with Riddle Me That come on people…..I should be running things
People keep talking about Batman getting completely bamboozled like it's a bad thing. It rocks. The best movies are about guys who just fuck everything up and get owned.
For all the cleverness of figuring out the riddles within mere seconds I was kinda baffled at the "rat with wings" one. When they seriously discussed that a falcon is "kinda looking like a rat with wings" I rolled my eyes so hard. 😂
The whole rata alada thing is one of the wonkiest things in the script, and the punch line being that the Penguin has to give them Spanish lessons is just a really weird bit of humor in that moment. I really couldn't believe they decided to keep bringing it up throughout the entire picture.
It's just pure cheese.
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Hey, everyone, check this out: Great insight on the design of the Batsuit and the Batmobile:
Also, very nice stuff, DC was apparently holding community discussions so fans could directly share their input, debate and suggest stuff to improve and do in this Batverse
Also, very nice stuff, DC was apparently holding community discussions so fans could directly share their input, debate and suggest stuff to improve and do in this Batverse
That's the thing...how's this even remotely a good detective movie ? And it's literally the entire film lol. It's half baked in so many ways, feels like it never goes passed second gear. The cinematography is the real mvp
To me I liked that Bruce wasn't the world's greatest detective. He was just this slightly-better-than-real-detectives detective that is still learning. I liked that better than a lot of detective films where the lead seems to just solve everything either by luck or because they are so good at their job.
Here we see a Bruce being lead by the Riddler's plans. He's clever enough to solve the riddles but not clever enough to be ahead of Riddler, and it was the point.
The 'rope' was an electrified cable that would have killed everyone in the water below. He jumps to sever it.
Great numbers for Monday - it seems positive word of mouth is really kicking in (analysis inside)
"It's a nice 23.6% Friday to Saturday increase. It's a great 21.1% drop on Sunday (lowest of any of the comparison films). Followed by a 68% drop on Monday (Again, the lowest of the comparison films).
In my experience, if a film already goes past other films in daily numbers this quickly, it doesn't swing back"
www.reddit.com
WB likely breathing sigh of relief with this drop right now
"It's a nice 23.6% Friday to Saturday increase. It's a great 21.1% drop on Sunday (lowest of any of the comparison films). Followed by a 68% drop on Monday (Again, the lowest of the comparison films).
In my experience, if a film already goes past other films in daily numbers this quickly, it doesn't swing back"
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
WB likely breathing sigh of relief with this drop right now
Wasnt a fun of
Other than the movie was pretty damn good.
how Alfred came out of his injury and he immediately started grinding him about his dad.
Other than the movie was pretty damn good.
I mean
I didn't see any grinding! jk! You have to remember up to that point Bruce doesn't really like or care for Alfred much. Its through that confrontation, conversation, and realization that Alfred has been like his dad and he almost lost him too, that he comes to terms with their relationship
Barry seems really eager to work in this universe - guess we gonna see him in Arkham series, perhaps?
Q: Matt Reeves has confirmed that yes, this is Joker, or rather, the man who will become Joker–a man who has been plagued by a a condition that forces him to smile uncontrollably since his birth, and has been driven mad as a result.
I know we can't say out-loud the role that you're playing in The Batman, but could tell me about Matt Reeves as a filmmaker?
A: "He's brilliant, man. And Matt Reeves and Dylan Clark especially and together were amazing to me– eally, really amazing to me. And, you know, getting to be part of the Batman universe is [a huge deal for me]. I'm a fanboy of these movies, and especially the Batman universe. So be to be in that world, I'm still pinching myself. He's a filmmaker I hugely admire as well. And to get to walk alongside him and see how he works, and seeing much like Chloe Zhao, how comfortable he makes you on set, and he gives you the time you need and what you want. I'm in such a blessed position."
Q: Matt Reeves has confirmed that yes, this is Joker, or rather, the man who will become Joker–a man who has been plagued by a a condition that forces him to smile uncontrollably since his birth, and has been driven mad as a result.
I know we can't say out-loud the role that you're playing in The Batman, but could tell me about Matt Reeves as a filmmaker?
A: "He's brilliant, man. And Matt Reeves and Dylan Clark especially and together were amazing to me– eally, really amazing to me. And, you know, getting to be part of the Batman universe is [a huge deal for me]. I'm a fanboy of these movies, and especially the Batman universe. So be to be in that world, I'm still pinching myself. He's a filmmaker I hugely admire as well. And to get to walk alongside him and see how he works, and seeing much like Chloe Zhao, how comfortable he makes you on set, and he gives you the time you need and what you want. I'm in such a blessed position."
Feel like this is more on the directors than the actors. Nolan should have fixed that with Bale and I am sure they tried a bunch of voices but he went with what he liked. I still think its overblown, just like most of the critiques of those movies, but yeah Pattison did it better. I remember reading that he tried a bunch of different voices, even shot some scenes with a heavier voice, and then they all decided to change it to what they settled with.
2nd viewing made me like it even more as well! And I agree with your point on Falcone!
In fact I expected him to whisper "Bruce?" right before he died.
Not all of GCPD were bad cops. Don't think that was what they were trying to show, just the guys running the show. Mayor, Commissioner, DA, and some cops working for Falcone. I didn't read it as "every single cop" is dirty. And of course after seeing all their superiors get knocked off, they would be more than willing to follow the new leader, Gordon.
Wait its doing better than Spiderman NWH there?
Luck, like the Penguin pointing out Alfreds faulty translation or that the cop guarding the Riddlers apartment knows about the carpenters tool?
I do like that he's still learning and all that, but I feel like certain things could've been handled better. Hopefully we get more movies that can build off this in a good way.
They didn't say a falcon looked like a rat with wings, they said falcons have wings too. They were looking for every possible connection.
(Given how loose people are getting about spoilers in the thread I'll just tag this whole thing. But on the topic of Batman as a detective in the movie)
I can't say I was entirely a fan.
I think the movie drops the ball on that pretty early on. There are fun moments, like 'thumb-drive', but there were few moments that stood out as clever. Alfred takes on Riddler's cipher like it's his morning Sudoku, and Batman reaches the solution to 'You are El Rata Alada' through trial and error. Batman doesn't outsmart anything. It doesn't take a detective to figure out an escape room.
For me I think the film just needed a moment. Maybe after the Riddler laments that he didn't solve the puzzle Batman uses 'El Rata Alada' / Spanish against the cipher and gets out 'Drown' instead of 'Drive' - drown a rat and give it its wings - the seawall! Just something that requires initiative.
It works as it is anyway.
I can't say I was entirely a fan.
I think the movie drops the ball on that pretty early on. There are fun moments, like 'thumb-drive', but there were few moments that stood out as clever. Alfred takes on Riddler's cipher like it's his morning Sudoku, and Batman reaches the solution to 'You are El Rata Alada' through trial and error. Batman doesn't outsmart anything. It doesn't take a detective to figure out an escape room.
For me I think the film just needed a moment. Maybe after the Riddler laments that he didn't solve the puzzle Batman uses 'El Rata Alada' / Spanish against the cipher and gets out 'Drown' instead of 'Drive' - drown a rat and give it its wings - the seawall! Just something that requires initiative.
It works as it is anyway.
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The man gives some long ass answers. By the end of the movie he will be still talking about the first scene on the directors commentary.
I love it tho.
I took as not that a falcon is a rat with wings, but Falconi is both the rat, and has wings because of a Falcon.
I like the Rata Alada stuff because it was confusing and ambiguous enough to mean many things
The movie would have been so much better if this ~5 minute sequence was left out, IMO. I'm so tired of not only the Joker, but just ham-fisted cameos/intros.
Basically. Also Riddler has always played dirty with his riddles where the correct answers are not really that, and he's doing a play on words to screw with people.
People being bothered by the inclusion of Joker in a Batman movie lol. Next you're gonna say, maybe he doesn't need Alfred. Jim Gordon can fuck off. Could lose the gadgets, too. Maybe even get rid of the cowl, let us look at the actor's face more.
Maybe some of you just don't like the Batman mythos, and it's fine. But let's not pretend that the inclusion was in any way detrimental.
What if I love the Batman mythos but hate the Joker. :(
Watched this last night.
Found it entertaining, but thought it was mediocre.
Found it entertaining, but thought it was mediocre.
Batman was super one dimensional and also rather ridiculous. LIke in some ways they were attempting to make it more grounded than even Nolan's films, but him having more mundane abilities and equipment somehow made his feats less believable. He didn't have any meaningful growth within the course of the film nor interesting conversations. The Riddler basically gave himself in, when he could have easily got Scot free. On the other hand, he waterlogged the city, so I guess he kind of came out on top. Catwoman was good, much less boring than Batman. Yeah, I went to see this film because eh, I enjoyed some of the previous batman films. But this doesn't really do anything new, and was also way longer than it should have been, given the content.
Disagree heavily with Bruce not having meaningful growth.
The film was fairly on the nose with it, but seems a lot of people just missed out on it?
Movie needed more that that "studio mandated" narration.
I think the includsion serves a secondary purpose as well.
Gets rid of potential years of speculation on whether Joker is in the next movie, who they get to play him, what his take on the character will be, etc. Anyone remember all of the mockups of different actors in clown paint for TDK before they announced Ledger's casting? I like that Reeves has neatly sidelined all of that.
It was on the nose yes. Maybe that wasn't the right way of framing it.
He started off as a stoic monotonic dullard, and he finished the same way. Sure there was growth - he found out about his parents, and opened up a bit more to...catwoman. but his core character remained pretty uninteresting. That is partly due to the dialogue and partly his boring stoic portrayal, particularly Bruce Wayne actually - I dont care about my money, I just want to do what is right! I do find it interesting how they are trying to reposition these characters, developed to encapsulate certain masculine and individualistic cliches, into more contemporary relevant reflections of heroism and justice. I don't think they did much interesting here, but despite that still found it entertaining. Just not very good.
Went last night with my son. My son absolutely loved it. Loved everything about it. I just liked it. Wasn't a fan of Emo-Bruce. I'll just copy what I wrote in the movie I watched thread.
So... I'm not as big a fan as from what I'm hearing from people. I liked it. My son loved it. All I could think when guys are shooting Batman and he just kinda walks at them
Wasn't a fan of emo Bruce Wayne. Just move the fucking hair from your eyes. You look like bully Maguire. Oh and
fucking Emo-Bruce.
That said, I thought the performances were great. Really enjoyed Penguin. Kravitz won't have me forgetting Pfeiffer anytime soon but leagues better than Hathaway. Surprised by how much Gordon was in it and how little Alfred was... And actually how little Bruce was too. But since it was emo-Bruce, I was fine with that.
The ending
So... I'm not as big a fan as from what I'm hearing from people. I liked it. My son loved it. All I could think when guys are shooting Batman and he just kinda walks at them
Wasn't a fan of emo Bruce Wayne. Just move the fucking hair from your eyes. You look like bully Maguire. Oh and
when Alfred wakes up after getting an explosion to the face meant for Emo-Bruce, first thing he hears from Emo is "you lied to me."
That said, I thought the performances were great. Really enjoyed Penguin. Kravitz won't have me forgetting Pfeiffer anytime soon but leagues better than Hathaway. Surprised by how much Gordon was in it and how little Alfred was... And actually how little Bruce was too. But since it was emo-Bruce, I was fine with that.
The ending
Joker showing up, meh. That was more a whatever for me. I feel like any Batman movie that becomes a series is going to have him at some point so why not go the Batman Begins route and let us know he's coming.
It was only detrimental in the sense that it tore me out of the movie because I was scared shitless it was going to be
Jared Leto.
You're weirdly hostile about this. There isn't any issue with it from a "mythos" perspective but it really serves no purpose in the movie or to Bruce's journey in the movie, so it's only really there to sequel bait, and not everyone wants or needs that. I don't see an issue with liking OR not liking its inclusion.
Yeah, Bruce has the most growth here of... I dunno, any of the live-action Batman movies? Outside of the origin of Begins, but any actual exploration of his interiority is basically resolved by minute 40 when he gets on the plane back to Gotham.
nah the momentum of the movie grinded to a halt when that cameo came up -- it was weird and proved why we typically save that stuff for after the credits.
batman as a detective:
i'm ok with batman being an imperfect detective. i'm just happy he was, you know, actually a detective in this. i see the complaint that he didn't solve all of the riddles or clues without help. but i feel like that's being overblown quite a bit. he solves nearly every riddle almost immediately. he notices things that the cops don't notice. he seems like he's the smartest one in the room in every scene (e.g. he noticed the ecchymosis that i guess presumably wouldn't otherwise be noticed until a medical examiner looked at the body). even after penguin pointed out the flaw in the spanish, batman was the one who put 2 and 2 together and knew it was a web address. even after the cop pointed out that the tool was for carpets. it was batman who figured out to use the tool to lift up the riddler's carpet. so yeah, he's not exactly the world's greatest detective...yet. but that's clearly intentional and it was awesome to see batman and gordon working a case together
Yeah, I think once the honeymoon period is over this will be picked apart even worse than TDK. I love TDK, I never got these nitpick complaints about the Joker's "plan." It's a film. But The Batman hinges far more on its "detective" plot which is far messier with big holes. It's just not a good detective film.
People complain about Batman in the Nolan films not getting to flex his detective skills, but he comes across as a way bigger genius and detective than idiot Batman in this film.
This is a film where Batman doesn't solve or prevent a single crime from occurring, but thinks he is "smart" because he solves the serial killer's clues in time to witness his next murder. Batman comes across as equally deranged with regards to puzzles as The Riddler. It's like he is compelled to solve every riddle presented despite the fact that IT'S NOT HIS JOB! His job to stop the serial killer aka The Riddler, to capture him. Yet at no point does he actually try and either figure out who The Riddler really is or attempt to locate him. Instead he keeps solving the riddles claiming "it's The Riddler's game now." So what, you just have to play?
In these types of stories, both broad mystery clue stories and even specific Batman Riddler stories, there always comes a point when the hero stops playing the game and instead goes on the hunt using everything they've found so far. Hell, take Die Hard with a Vengeance and its whole game of Simon Says. At a certain point McClane realizes it's all a wild goose chase and stops playing the game and instead tries to hunt down Simon. There's just never a point in the film where Bruce thinks, "maybe I should stop being led around and instead try to put one over on the Riddler."
Instead he gets completely caught up in the Riddler's game to the point that he doesn't save a single target and the Riddler has to turn himself in because he's too dumb to figure it out. And then the Riddler is always waiting at the exact moment Batman solves the Riddle to commit the murder or relay his next instructions without delay.
In these types of stories, both broad mystery clue stories and even specific Batman Riddler stories, there always comes a point when the hero stops playing the game and instead goes on the hunt using everything they've found so far. Hell, take Die Hard with a Vengeance and its whole game of Simon Says. At a certain point McClane realizes it's all a wild goose chase and stops playing the game and instead tries to hunt down Simon. There's just never a point in the film where Bruce thinks, "maybe I should stop being led around and instead try to put one over on the Riddler."
Instead he gets completely caught up in the Riddler's game to the point that he doesn't save a single target and the Riddler has to turn himself in because he's too dumb to figure it out. And then the Riddler is always waiting at the exact moment Batman solves the Riddle to commit the murder or relay his next instructions without delay.
Solving riddles doesn't make you a good detective.
Villain of the day gets on Arkham and is immediately greeted by the Joker is just classic Batman.
This movie is just so unapologetically Batman that my reaction was "Well of course"