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Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
User Banned (Permanent): Anti-Black Racism
A few months ago I made a thread.

www.resetera.com

I'm black but I'm not sure if I'm pro-black anymore

This sounds like a bizarre statement but it's how I feel. Hopefully this is a safe space to express that feeling. When I say I'm not sure if I'm pro-black anymore I mean it in the sense I don't care about black issues. I care. I deeply care. But caring about those issues and being pro-black...

For whatever reason, it was closed. These feelings have not gone away.

Full disclosure it has nothing to do with social media. It's about art, specifically black art.

I used to think that the reason we don't see black artists that speak on things is because we just aren't afforded the opportunity. Increasingly, however, I'm starting to think it's because many black creators put themselves in boxes and only speak on blackness.

I live in NYC and am an artist. I am being mentored by a renown black artist. He is schooling me in the biz. I have began to build a professional and creative network and a lot of them are black and their work is almost always, universally, typified by their blackness. It's so banal and ubiquitous here that it feels like a giant fucking grift, where talent isn't rewarded so much as being black is. A lot of the work in my network is really sub standard. Like one collective in the local area that has been making rounds talks almost nothing of social issues. Their main thing is blackness. Here in Brooklyn, the Brooklyn Museum is opening an exhibit to show Obama's Presidential portrait. How is this group going to commemorate it? By making portraits of people surrounded by trees to mimic the overall aesthetic of Obama's portrait. That's it. Using one persons art as a basis to make money.

This is just one spurious example. I notice people of races don't do this shit and if they do they are smart to not make it the totality of their artistic identity. They realize that there's wisdom in having an oeuvre that works for people of different backgrounds.

So much black art boils down to "Hey, I'm black." It's so fucking boring. The worst part is how black artists are cajoled into this corral of creative stagnancy. I fear that if my career goals line up, I'll still be forced by my bosses to only make pictures pertaining to blackness. What about the recent Afghan situation? What about the War on Terror? What about the ripple effects that has on views on military? Or Islam/Muslims? I'm really interested in the sociology of what makes us human and the webs that we are connected to, and too often it feels like this is an attitude only afforded by non-black artists. Take a look at a lot of black art and it often feels copied and pasted. I'm again, convinced it's a grift for many. I go to exhibit after exhibit and it's almost always the same. Meanwhile the non-black people get to tell cool, diverse stories and they're not obsessed with their identities even if they're people of color. This doesn't mean they have no pride of where they come from, but they seem just as interested in telling stories about people who aren't like them as much as they are interested in telling stories about people that are.

It's getting hard to hold back my tongue and just flat out say,"your work sucks and your blackness is the only reason you're here. Please tell us something about you besides your blackness."

You can see this is dynamic in the pop culture. Like how they replace characters that are historically white with a black version of that character rather than making a unique black character. It's as if black art is constrained to a specific plane and if you go outside of it you're going to get tomatoed.

I'm not saying speaking truth to power and articulating your blackness has no value. But creatively, is that all there is? So your answer to white people making art that features only white people is to make art that only features black people? And you live in New York City?

zRkWRzm.gif


How could you, reliably, critique white peoples pastiche that limits this world to a select race if you're doing the same?

I'm really, really scared I'll make my career goals of working for the New York Times or AP or something, and they only give me black stories where I'm just pigeon holed.

To counter this, I've started to distance myself almost entirely with the movement and black art. I'm in the process of making my own collective and unlike other collectives ran by black people I've decided to make it non-black. The first guy I recruited, my co-partner, is a straight white man. The goal of the collective is find diverse voices where we can tell stories visually in a high level manner. I'm really trying to build a group of people from diverse backgrounds: black, brown, Muslim, Jewish, Asian, Latino, Arab, LGBTQ, Native;etc. even white as long as they have something to say and don't reduce their messages to just identity politics.

I told someone I know about joining my collective. He's a black man. He told me no because he wants to focus only black issues. It's always like this. It's as if that's all they have to say.

The worst part of black arts limited dynamics is that it teaches white people that black people are just victims. More than that, it teaches black kids that blackness is a fashion statement. In the end, we all lose.

Here's a picture to close this out.

6m6wp4j.jpeg
 

Zampano

The Fallen
Dec 3, 2017
2,242
This is really interesting to read. Do you feel your career would be limited by creating art not related to your blackness?
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,621
I have a layman's understanding of this but i feel like there's a current zeitgeist around this topic in particular. I would expect this to naturally change and gain more complexity over time (that is, over the years), but i suppose motions like the one you're making are key steps in adding something else to what you feel is superficial and banal.

That said i would blame anyone for focusing on creating art that they feel is representative of something about themselves and sticking to it, even if it results in relatively poor outputs. Perhaps to them it's not that important to be novel, or radical in that way.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
Extrapolation: black people will never heal if we do not make our own works that hope to inspire rather than remind us we are black. White people make Star Trek. Black people make another reminder I'm black.

It's why I think Afrofuturism and a lot of blaxploitation sucks. To be granted, the need for a platform to make things about blackness and black people, as an underclass race, is important. But we will never transcend nor heal if that's all we have to communicate.

If black people can make work that resonates with people because it's related to the human condition and aspires as much as it inspires, we can likely gain more international acceptance rather than if we just made black art for black people along ever continuing rigid lines.

I used to question,"where's the black art masters?" I used to think it was only because they weren't allowed to contribute. Increasingly I'm aware many don't want to. You will never master art if you keep yourself to a box.

Rather than creating our own DBZ, black people are more interested in making black Goku art. Other races create; black people don't.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,675
Very interesting read, thanks for sharing your thoughts OP. I will also read that locked thread.

This sort of reminds me of issues I see with creative arts in the Caribbean, where there is also a fine line between celebrating one's culture and ethnicity (which is valued in general at least in the countries I've been to) and making your art solely about that to the exclusion of all else. I think some of the most successful creatives I've seen here never lose sight of what they view as their identity, but leverage all sorts of other ideas (even European/Classical ones) in an interesting kind of syncretism to form something multifaceted and unique. I've more seen this with authors and poets than visual artists, but I'm sure it exists for vis art down here too. I'm quite out of the loop.

If black people can make work that resonates with people because it's related to the human condition and aspires as much as it inspires, we can likely gain more international acceptance rather than if we just made black art for black people along ever continuing rigid lines

Related to this I think a lot of people underestimate the degree to which human beings can empathize with and find value in stuff that speaks to them even if made for a cultural context that is reasonably distant from their own. Stuff like Marxism finding a foothold in Caribbean discourse and politics because of the comparisons of the bourgeoisie and proletariat to the masters and enslaved. Or post colonial literature and theory in general, despite being often created in the context of a particular nation in a particular decade following independence, can help influence debate in other countries about general international and cultural imperial relationships.

Regardless, thanks for so clearly explaining your case. Keen to see what discussion comes out of this thread.
 
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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,675
I'm not familar with the high art world, but it seems that you don't gel with that particular group. Moreover, art is personal, if those artists want to highlight those topics, I don't see anything wrong with that. Art is derivative.

Let them do them.

But if you have no interest in those topics, shouldn't be hard to go on doing your own things, as you mentioned you are.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,269
It feels natural to me that people who have historically been denied a voice in media and broader society would use their newfound voice to talk about that denial and celebrate that liberation - especially when so many other people don't understand those forces in the first place.

I'm not Black, so I obviously don't know this from firsthand experience, but that seems completely logical. It also seems like something that will evolve quite quickly. It's not as though Black artists and musicians and filmmakers will want to solely talk about Black issues forever, but those issues are still raw and current so I get why people want to make them a focal point of their creative endeavours.
 

E.Balboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,477
FlorianĂłpolis, Brazil
That was a very interesting read. I'm a straight while 40 yo male and I respect all kind of arts and statements.

I feel black artists usually are defined by the blackness, as you said, because we are still in the process of balancing the scale. Whenever things are more equal (hopefully), then I think black artists will feel 'free' to pursue general art goals. That's, at least, what I always thought.

Perhaps in places where equality is nearer , people already feel like they have to freedom to express themselves however they want, while in communities where blackness is still viewed as a handicap black artists have to double down on 'blackness' to try to make things even.

I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. But I'm sure that if you feel like your goal is the one you defined, all the power to you. I'm sure you'll make the difference you are shooting for!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
Obviously there's been a push to "represent your people", not only in being Black but in being a woman, LGBT, etc, in pop art so what you say is real. There's value in "Hey, Im Black(TM) !" art because it feels nice to many to force your way into the public consciousness with a coherent image, but there's also a need for "DBZ, authored by a Black guy" as well. OP I think you should go ahead and diversify your art when you see fit, we need more of that. Don't let trends limit your capabilities as an artist. The stories I write for the most part involve Black protagonists but I let my settings and scenarios go beyond "textbook Black-ness" partly because there's already plenty of that out there by talented and passionate artists

People of any group will talk about how their side isn't monolithic, so go ahead OP and provide that much needed look into that subset of folks that haven't gotten represented yet
 
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Era Uma Vez

Member
Feb 5, 2020
3,265
Black people created a shit ton of stuff, but by now some white guy has taken credit for it, most likely.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,635
This is something I've thought about a lot over the years, how I can consume art and media by or featuring white people without the piece having to be about whiteness, but for other races (or even non male genders and non straight orientations) the work feels like it has to justify featuring PoC. "If Nintendo makes Link female they have to justify it through gameplay and story" for example, even though they didn't have to justify him as male.

I think part of the problem is that straight white male is considered default, even subconsciously by people that wouldn't want to do that. Like your Star Trek example, Star Trek might actually be a story about whiteness but because whiteness is the default common denominator it cancels out and isn't noticed.
 
OP
OP
Space Lion

Space Lion

Banned
May 24, 2019
1,015
Further extrapolation: by making art only about blackness this will pigeonhole your work so that the only work you get is about blackness. A wide diversity of subject matter and topic will result in higher success of getting better jobs.

OP really typed out "other races create; black people don't" with 0 pushback.

I believe in the mantra of tough love.
 

J2C

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,407
I believe Wesley Morris spoke about this in adjacent fashion. He spoke of wishing much of his life to see black creators get a chance to make more films, and was frustrated how many of them are simply biopics of notable black figures. Which he argued was his least favorite type of film, was becoming oversaturated, and was a very limited scope of film type

That said I think art in general, films in general, are dominated by people following pre-established trends. There's always really great art to seek out still (by black creators) within the rigidity.

From my own funneled experience I feel like Love Jones (1997), which I almost made a thread about, has a really unique perspective on romance, the city of Chicago, pursuing a career in the arts and the conflicts that causes in relationships. I also adored the dignity it gave its supporting cast, in an incredibly refreshing way we don't see in a lot of modern dramas/rom-coms. But it also wasn't successful upon release, and really disheartening to me the black writer/director hasn't made another film

I just think any artist has to have the courage to put down what they believe in, and I believe audiences will find it. Appreciate the ruminations anyway in the OP, I often think art is just a series of conflicts and challenges in finding your specific individual path
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,675
Extrapolation: black people will never heal if we do not make our own works that hope to inspire rather than remind us we are black. White people make Star Trek. Black people make another reminder I'm black.

It's why I think Afrofuturism and a lot of blaxploitation sucks. To be granted, the need for a platform to make things about blackness and black people, as an underclass race, is important. But we will never transcend nor heal if that's all we have to communicate.

If black people can make work that resonates with people because it's related to the human condition and aspires as much as it inspires, we can likely gain more international acceptance rather than if we just made black art for black people along ever continuing rigid lines.

I used to question,"where's the black art masters?" I used to think it was only because they weren't allowed to contribute. Increasingly I'm aware many don't want to. You will never master art if you keep yourself to a box.

Rather than creating our own DBZ, black people are more interested in making black Goku art. Other races create; black people don't.
I have to hard pushback here.

Art by nature is derivative. There's no group that does not take produce derivative works, both in amateur and professional spaces.

Also, when I used to be more involved in the art world, I never really saw this. Tons of highly original black artists.

Just because people are inspired by the most popular anime ever, doesn't negate other contributions. You will always have artists of all kinds producing derivative stuff. I also don't think it's a bad thing. You may not like it. That's fine.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,888
It's important to consider that an easy mindset to fall into (I've fallen into it myself) is that as a black creator you have a sort "responsibility" to speak of blackness and make it an important part of your work simply because in the grand scheme of things most people don't do that, and if most people don't do that then it feels as if the onus falls onto you.

This is also the kind of mindset that makes some people very demanding of "perfect representation" that is characters that only display the best kinds of qualities with little to no wiggle room for error. When you're in charge of an idea that doesn't get much use (outside of just the circle of black creators) then you feel a pressure to be as perfect with it as possible otherwise you're poisoning well for everyone else, people can be really nasty to uncommon ideas and don't give it the luxury that they give proven factors no matter how poorly they may individually go wrong.

Like you said though, we're largely playing catch up. We're going to making a bunch of mistakes and falling into a lot of pitfalls over art in the coming decades, I don't think we HAVE to make these mistakes since we can just look at history but I do think we at least have the right to make these mistakes, just as more white focused media is allowed to be as uncreative and derivative as possible before they pump out something amazing we should at least also be allowed to do that.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
21,074
I locked your thread the last time because I said Era isn't the place for you to discuss this- specifically, it's not the place for you to discuss how much you absolutely hate Black people and their accomplishments to the point of delusional historical revisionism, and the fact that a bunch of whites came in completely oblivious to what this was displays why Era isn't the place to discuss this.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,616
Nep is right but I got to say some of the responses not only suck they fucking hurt. I don't expect much but goddamn
 
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