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Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,109
Ys 3 on the SNES was my intro the series so it holds a special place in my heart. Beat it dozens of times as a kid in the 90s. I will say it was always hard, and I didn't know how bad of a port it really was until recently. I really need to try the Genesis version some day.

It was the same for me. I first was introduced to the franchise through the SNES version. The Genesis version seemed rarer, compared to it's SNES counterpart, but it's so much more fun to play.

The SNES version ramps up the difficulty for no apparent reason. The worst change is probably to enemy defense. If Adol doesn't have the right weapon in any version, the enemies will take reduced damage and you'll hear a special sound indicating your attacks aren't powerful enough. In the SNES version, however, that damage reduction has been bumped up massively, with enemies that take up to 90% less damage. Excessive level and money grinding basically becomes mandatory, as does gratuitous use of the Power Ring. Speaking of the Power Ring, the rate at which lose Ring Power in the SNES version is twice as fast. I'm not certain if this is a bug, or if it's intentional, but either way it makes the game a lot harder.

The enemies in the SNES version are just wonky in general too. Hit detection is off compared to other versions (try dodging Dulan's swords in the SNES version), and many of the enemies move faster for no apparent reason.

It's a real shame. The other versions are fantastic (if difficult) ARPGs. :\
 
OP
OP
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
that's why the castle boss is so BS, you do 1dmg unless you're lvl 25 or use the elec rings. it's the one bad thing about the game.

I spent another hour grinding, had to go back to the forest though because the castle enemies at level 18/19 took 1 damage so it look about 2mins to kill each one

The wolfs in the forest took heavier damage so stayed there for an hour to get to 20 then spent 30mins at the front of the castle getting to 21

This section of the game is really badly designed. I can't believe these areas follow one another. It feels like there should be 1 or even 2 areas between them. The first 10 hours of the game were really well paced as well, so this is a bit of a kick in the teeth

Anyway, I'm level 21 and I have 3 electric rings and a zap ring, so I'll try the actual level soon
 

Eila

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,941
Heaven and Earth trilogy so gud.
Not the biggest fan of the Secret of Mana games, myself. The hit detection always felt off.
The Ys games on SNES are very mediocre, all 3.
Ganpuru is like the bastard child of Zelda and Earthbound, but again, the hit detection is very wonky.
Think I've played some others. One about a tomato vampire or something.
 

4859

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,046
In the weak and the wounded
you broke up the Quintet Trilogy by squeezing SD3 inbetween :)

they belong together!

Terranigma is the best game ever so that naturally is worth playing. Combat is amazing.

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Thanks for this post, op had me crying posting the menu room.
 

tiesto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,865
Long Island, NY
Ruin Arm is an okay arpg by Banpresto iirc, Japan only with no fan translation. Worth trying though.

There's also Neugier, a real short arpg made for speed running. It's by Wolf Team, and was one of Gotanda's (Star Ocean) first games.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
Neugier was going to get a western release from Renovation retitled The Journey Home: Quest for the Throne. It didn't happen because Sega bought them out first and canned all their planned SNES releases (Arcus Spirits -> Arcus Odyssey, Psycho Dream -> Dream Probe). The games were complete and even had boxarts, printed ads and reviews.
 
OP
OP
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tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
Beat Bloody Mary in Terranigma at level 22, she wasn't that bad at all
 
OP
OP
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tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
with the rings, though?

I had 4 of them but only used 3

She was easy if you just sprint side to side and hit her upper level and then run like hell when she disappears

Had to eat though 3 or 4 large bulbs though, but my grinding meant I was loaded so I could buy them all day long
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
I had 4 of them but only used 3

She was easy if you just sprint side to side and hit her upper level and then run like hell when she disappears

Had to eat though 3 or 4 large bulbs though, but my grinding meant I was loaded so I could buy them all day long
at lvl 22 you didn't do much damage though? 2 at most, I guess?

thing is, she isn't hard, it's that you need the stats from lvl 25 to do any significant damage or use the elec rings.
 

motherless

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,282
The Legend of Zelda: A link to the past and Secret of Mana are the only two I was really into. A Link to the Past is a wonderful experience. I never completed Secret of Mana but enjoyed what I played. I remember it being very hard.
 
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OP
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Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
at lvl 22 you didn't do much damage though? 2 at most, I guess?

thing is, she isn't hard, it's that you need the stats from lvl 25 to do any significant damage or use the elec rings.

Yeah I was doing 3-4 damage a hit and eating 25-30 when she hit me, but she only had 350hp and the rings did 49 a pop
 
OP
OP
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
yea, you do low single-digit damage until you hit 25, that's why that annoying requirement is there. I wish I had known about the elec ring weaknesss as a kid already...

Bit of a bump but I just beat Terranigma

What an ending, I didn't expect that at all. It's quite touching for a SNES game. The credits scene is great and really lets you reflect on the game, and the music is just fantastic

It really is such a great game
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,684
Philadelphia, PA
Eh are these really ARPGs? I think of them as the Diablo games. These are more JRPGs with action combat which I suppose are ARPGs lol

None of the games listed in the OP or this topic remotely share the same gameplay loop comprised of Diablo, neither mechanically or controls.

Games like Diablo, Torchlight, Titan Quest, Dungeon Siege are specific subset of RPG commonly known as a Dungeon Crawler which typically not categorized by the typical Action RPG formula (kb+m control centric, randomized loot and dungeon environments)
 
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TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
Bit of a bump but I just beat Terranigma

What an ending, I didn't expect that at all. It's quite touching for a SNES game. The credits scene is great and really lets you reflect on the game, and the music is just fantastic

It really is such a great game
Congrats and welcome to the family of world restorers.

Imagine playing this with that ending when you're like 10 after having dealt with some rl shit nobody wants to deal with.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
Bit of a bump but I just beat Terranigma

What an ending, I didn't expect that at all. It's quite touching for a SNES game. The credits scene is great and really lets you reflect on the game, and the music is just fantastic

It really is such a great game
It's Quintet's masterpiece.
 
OP
OP
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
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Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
It's Quintet's masterpiece.

It's the only Quintet game I've played but that does seem to be the general consensus

It's such a shame so few people seemed to have played it. It's right up there with the best games on the SNES

I assume Square now own the rights, since this was published by Enix?

We could do with a Quintet collection being released
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
It's the only Quintet game I've played but that does seem to be the general consensus

It's such a shame so few people seemed to have played it. It's right up there with the best games on the SNES

I assume Square now own the rights, since this was published by Enix?

We could do with a Quintet collection being released
Square Enix has all the Squaresoft and Enix stuff. Nintendo probably owns the localizations (English, German, Spanish, French), though, since they made them.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
It's the only Quintet game I've played but that does seem to be the general consensus

It's such a shame so few people seemed to have played it. It's right up there with the best games on the SNES

I assume Square now own the rights, since this was published by Enix?

We could do with a Quintet collection being released
Don't hold your breath, the only Quintet game SquareEnix has ever released was ActRaiser.

By the way check out ActRaiser, Soul Blazer and Illusion of Gaia they are all good (oh and ActRaiser 2 has one of the best pixel art on SNES ever, Ayano Koshiro did really an awesome job).
 
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Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
Don't hold your breath, the only Quintet game SquareEnix has ever released was ActRaiser.

By the way check out ActRaiser, Soul Blazer and Illusion of Gaia they are all good (oh and ActRaiser 2 has one of the best pixel art on SNES ever, Ayano Koshiro did really an awesome job).

ActRaiser has never really appealed to me, but I might check it out one day

Illusion of Gaia is a game I will probably get to at some point

I visited the Quintet office in Terranigma which was nice, but also kind of sad since they're no longer around
 
Apr 19, 2018
3,969
Germany
Does Shadowrun count? Because Shadowrun is just the best!

EDIT: From the op i only played Evermore, great game. Only played a bit of Mana but from what i played i prefer Evermore.
 

Faria

Member
Jan 26, 2018
360
I just started YS: Mask of the Sun through Retrix on X1 and it's great. The music constantly gets stuck in my head.

I used to own the games from the series on Steam, but I only completed 1+2 before going back to consoles. I'm definitely looking to get my fill of the series, now that I can play them on console again.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,866
Netherlands
As someone who's always liked real-time JRPGs more than turn-based, *this* was the real golden era of JRPGs. I'm not sure I've ever been as infatuated with a game as Secret of Mana. But Evermore, Terranigma, Illusion of.. are all fantastic.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,866
Netherlands
Playing Secrer of Mana 3 player with the multitap is one of my favorite gaming memories. IMO the game was way more fun with 3 players, especially compared to single.
All JRPGs should have couch coop. After Secret of Mana my favorite JRPG is probably Tales of Symphonia, and for neither of the two it's because of the story or the gameplay (though both have very decent gameplay).
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
All JRPGs should have couch coop. After Secret of Mana my favorite JRPG is probably Tales of Symphonia, and for neither of the two it's because of the story or the gameplay (though both have very decent gameplay).
I never played Tales but I distinctly remember Mana not being nearly as enjoyable by yourself.

It was kind of above average in everything. It had good but not FF6 quality music. The story had its moments but it was not something I would be dying to play the game for. And the gameplay was just not as fun in single player. Having to coordinate all 3 characters for puzzles and boss fights was where most of the joy in the game came from. Or even something as stupid as sprinting from one side of the screen to the other to see who got there first.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,703
I'm so happy to see so much love for Terranigma in here. It's a game that I can truly call a masterpiece. I still think about the ending to this day. I wish the people involved still made games.
 

Mr.Beep

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
832
None of the games listed in the OP or this topic remotely share the same gameplay loop comprised of Diablo, neither mechanically or controls.

Games like Diablo, Torchlight, Titan Quest, Dungeon Siege are specific subset of RPG commonly known as a Dungeon Crawler which typically not categorized by the typical Action RPG formula (kb+m control centric, randomized loot and dungeon environments)

Yeah makes sense. Guess our group always kind referred to them as action RPGs but there is no reason it can't encompass a range of series (e.g. action RPG but a dungeon crawler sub genre).

Like you Google action RPG and you get Diablo 3 to Dark Souls to Secret of Mana.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
Yeah makes sense. Guess our group always kind referred to them as action RPGs but there is no reason it can't encompass a range of series (e.g. action RPG but a dungeon crawler sub genre).

Like you Google action RPG and you get Diablo 3 to Dark Souls to Secret of Mana.
Diablo-likes are action RPGs. They're RPGs but in real-time and focused on quick-thinking action in their combat scenarios. Doesn't mean they can't also be dungeon crawlers and thus a very specific subset in that genre. Diablo-likes are also called hack-n-slash. Let me be cute and invent the Loot'em Up term (which probably exists already lol) and they're also that. They're all of these things. Most games are more than just one thing anyway. Action RPG is a super broad family/umbrella-term which then houses various sub-genres that can have links to other sub-genres or even wholly separate genres. We'll never have these neat little "this is an X game" genre labels that nail a game down to two or three words, especially the longer this keeps going.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
16,024
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Diablo-likes are action RPGs. They're RPGs but in real-time and focused on quick-thinking action in their combat scenarios. Doesn't mean they can't also be dungeon crawlers and thus a very specific subset in that genre. Diablo-likes are also called hack-n-slash. Let me be cute and invent the Loot'em Up term (which probably exists already lol) and they're also that. They're all of these things. Most games are more than just one thing anyway. Action RPG is a super broad family/umbrella-term which then houses various sub-genres that can have links to other sub-genres or even wholly separate genres. We'll never have these neat little "this is an X game" genre labels that nail a game down to two or three words, especially the longer this keeps going.

RPG in general is a really vague term, so I find it best not to get too caught up in the intricacies of what game is what genre etc

God help anyone who wants to have the character action/spectacle fighter/ 3D brawler debate

Team character action
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
I never played Tales but I distinctly remember Mana not being nearly as enjoyable by yourself.

It was kind of above average in everything. It had good but not FF6 quality music. The story had its moments but it was not something I would be dying to play the game for. And the gameplay was just not as fun in single player. Having to coordinate all 3 characters for puzzles and boss fights was where most of the joy in the game came from. Or even something as stupid as sprinting from one side of the screen to the other to see who got there first.
IMO SoM music has higher high than FFVI music.

Secret of Mana is a case of an ambitious game for the time with features previously unseen.
The problem is that such ambition wasn't match by the a sound execution and that once unique feature like coop in a console RPG are now more common.
First off SoM represented a big evolution for Square RPG with its real time combat and the three players coop mode was a first for a JRPG.
The problem is that every aspect of the game is marred by bad execution which makes the coop clumsy and the gameplay worse than what it could have been (bad hit detection, characters that stuck in places, lock stun and chaining magic which render the game unbalanced).
The story and NPC dialogues are mediocre at best with some specific high point (the beginning and the revelation at the end are good).
To the point I believe the biggest star of the narrative in SoM is the evocative graphics and music.

The true high points of SoM are the presentation (the colorful graphics looks still good and the OST is one of the best ever done albeit some tracks sucks) and how methodical the combat and growth system are which makes the game addictive if you like the gameplay loop.
In fact SoM feel is close to Diablo where you are in constant pursuit to improve your character(s) but with a much less emphasis on the loot system.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
I'm currently playing through SFC Tales of Phantasia and it's fun, though the dungeon designs are real weird and frustrating. Combat is very different to what came later too.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
RPG in general is a really vague term, so I find it best not to get too caught up in the intricacies of what game is what genre etc

God help anyone who wants to have the character action/spectacle fighter/ 3D brawler debate

Team character action
Having categories is useful, I think the only real problem is when people try to force things into too narrow groups for simplicities sake.
I'm deep in the "anything as long as we abolish the meaningless character action term" camp
lol
 

Soneji

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,454
IMO SoM music has higher high than FFVI music.

Secret of Mana is a case of an ambitious game for the time with features previously unseen.
The problem is that such ambition wasn't match by the a sound execution and that once unique feature like coop in a console RPG are now more common.
First off SoM represented a big evolution for Square RPG with its real time combat and the three players coop mode was a first for a JRPG.
The problem is that every aspect of the game is marred by bad execution which makes the coop clumsy and the gameplay worse than what it could have been (bad hit detection, characters that stuck in places, lock stun and chaining magic which render the game unbalanced).
The story and NPC dialogues are mediocre at best with some specific high point (the beginning and the revelation at the end are good).
To the point I believe the biggest star of the narrative in SoM is the evocative graphics and music.

The true high points of SoM are the presentation (the colorful graphics looks still good and the OST is one of the best ever done albeit some tracks sucks) and how methodical the combat and growth system are which makes the game addictive if you like the gameplay loop.
In fact SoM feel is close to Diablo where you are in constant pursuit to improve your character(s) but with a much less emphasis on the loot system.
My friends and I are starting up our playthrough of Secret of Mana again after stopping for a very long time due to the game getting glitchy/annoyance of Wii Classic Controllers(we're playing through the Wii mode VC on Wii U). I can't even remember what even happened in the story prior to where we're at, I don't remember it being anything special. The problems with the hit detection and stunlock were apparent quickly after the restart, getting the Engulfed condition sucks so much. Still really fun though, changing between weapons, charging up attacks, trolling your friends by making them run into traps...can't imagine playing this game solo. It's perfect for my group as I have two best friends of over a decade, so a specifically 3-player coop RPG is tailor-made for us.
 
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tag reference no one gets
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Oct 25, 2017
16,024
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Having categories is useful, I think the only real problem is when people try to force things into too narrow groups for simplicities sake.
I'm deep in the "anything as long as we abolish the meaningless character action term" camp
lol

Well genre names are just shortcuts so we know what we're talking about

I think they only become an issue when people get really defensive over what game is what genre, or over what each genre needs to have define it

Terranigma and Dark Souls and Diablo are all ARPGs, which isn't that helpful, so we add more qualifies or give them new terms

I like character action as a term but I'm fine with people who don't, we both know what kind of game I'm talking about when I say character action so as a genre name it does it's job
 

Mr.Beep

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
832
So I think it's fair they have sub genres as mentioned. Do we really need to get into specifics of what makes an action RPG western or eastern otherwise...
 

jnWake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,108
It's such a shame that it's pretty much impossible to play Terranigma legally nowadays, it's a really good game with a really good soundtrack.