89 Characters & Not a Single Black Character: The Anti-Blackness of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

[2shd]

Skin color is not priority when choosing which character makes it into smash.
Main characters, mascots or very important characters are priority, let us not ignore this basic requirement.
It is a gaming industry problem.

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There is no "basic requirement". It's Nintendo's product and they can put in whoever they want. A charcater that players can identify with should be very important, especially at this point. There are 80+ characters now. Aren't we past these silly arbitrary metrics for exclusion?

Also, Nintendo is at the forefront of the industry and this game has high visibility, so they are in the perfect position to take a step to address the problem by making a positive move in terms of inclusion. They are choosing not to by hiding behind these so-called requirements, which have been addressed already.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm actually having a tad bit of a realization/emotional crisis right now involving this, after having read some other takes in the thread plus the update to OP. I might actually be secretly terrified at the backlash a character might receive for being similar to another character. I'm scared that if Marina gets in, the conversation won't be about her finally being a black character getting in, it would be around how she's just an inkling clone and a "waste of a spot." I'm scared Doc Louis will be dismissed as a bad choice simply due to being a mere Little Mac clone.

I think the reason why I feel a black character needs to be unique and stand on their own as a character is because I don't want the character to get backlash from the Smash community for being derivative. I want a black character to get in and get no backlash from a gameplay perspective since that would overshadow the fact that that a black character got in. If Nagoriyuki got in, I feel the conversation would revolve around him being a sword fighter rather than black. I don't want the black character to get more hate than they will already get from racists for being supposedly uninspired, and that's fucking terrifying. I fucking hate that I'm scared that I have to fear a black character getting backlash. I don't quite know why I feel that scared, and I feel might be something I've accidentally internalized or something.

The fact that my honest thoughts on this got me, a young black man, compared to a fucking white supremacist is giving me some severe anxiety almost to the point of nearly crying and if this whole thread ultimately ends up changing my views on diversity in smash (and diversity in gaming media in general) I think you did your job OP...

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I'll be real blunt with you.

Who gives a fuck what the Smash community thinks? What authority do they have to warrant deferring to their collective opinion, when frankly they've been telling you, me, and every other black person to our faces for literal years that we aren't good enough for Smash but the fucking Wii Fit Trainer and Mr. Game and Watch is? Yeah, they'll whine, complain, feel a spot was "taken from them." But fuck 'em. It's not like ultimately they care about your black ass.

There's no reason to kowtow to gamers in 2021 (or any year, but especially after the fuckery of last year) on the basis of how you feel your blackness gets to be on screen. If you want black characters, then say so. We don't need qualifiers for our inclusion, because I guarantee you no one else- especially whites- are putting qualifiers on theirs. If they get to show up for no reason, so do we. So yes, when people start adding qualifiers that only black characters need to meet to even exist, all you're doing is playing into racist tropes, which anyone can do. Even if you're doing it for reasons of self-preservation, it is ultimately indistinguishable from outright racist rhetoric from some of the more insidious folks here. If this is a wake-up call, then good. Now you know.

Now then: Lúcio for Smash.

 

[dgamemaster]

Thank you for being super frank about all this and continuing to engage. It's easy to shut down when something like this comes up, especially if it feels like it's hitting close to home. The OP deserves a ton of credit for how it presents deflections/excuses we may be falling into without realizing it, but isn't too judgmental/personal in calling them out.

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No yeah, OP definitely made a lot of great points, and I thank this thread and the discussion surrounding it for giving me a lot to think about in regards to my own internal biases. Didn't think a Smash thread would get me close to crying but eh, stuff does happen.

 

[HeroR]

Disco Kid lol

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Picking a black character for Smash from a gamer series all about having fun with racial stereotypes and exaggerating them. I can't imagine that ending well.

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Pretty much. Too many people go 'they have dark-skin, they're black.

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To be fair, I think we have to consider that for a lot of black people growing up with this media that rarely ever depicts us, we go a little further in finding representation even if it's ambiguous. I don't know where the line is drawn there... like in anime fandoms it's so often that a black person identifies with a character they see as black and people come to "correct" them that it's actually just a tan.

Like how many people see Brock from Pokémon as black? I don't think he actually is but am I wrong in saying that or are people wrong in identifying blackness within that character? Perhaps the problem is at the root what I already pointed out as a scarce selection of black representation. Idk, I'm just rolling out my thoughts as opposed to making a counter stance.

 

[Neiteio]

Someone had an amazing idea for Marina where you directly control her but she carries Pearl in one of those baby harnesses, lol

 

[Garlador]

Broadly I agree, and as a black man myself it's pretty cool to see this thread. However I'm unsure as to how this is anything but an industry problem, as opposed to a Smash problem. I hear whats being said in the associated paragraph, but I think the industry has to evolve past the point of black people only ever being secondary protagonists at best before we look at 'best of' and widely fan dictated games like Smash.

That's not to say that Sakurai and co. don't have a choice, but as it stands there's always going to be an easy out.

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I lean very much towards it being an Industry-wide problem, but that Smash being as big as it is has a responsibility for being a leader and trailblazer in these issues, but seems to want to avoid that responsibility entirely.

I think I'm guilty of this as well, as I routinely do levy my feedback towards companies about choices regarding diversity and inclusion, but I admittedly have never sent feedback to Nintendo to prioritize PoC in leading roles in future games.

Japan has a pretty bad history with race - Some would argue as bad as the US. They just have never gone through any reckoning about it, so they simply do not have the same history of successful civil rights movements.
Japanese game companies are not going to change shit unless foreign markets forces them through financially.

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[zaxil456]

To be fair, I think we have to consider that for a lot of black people growing up with this media that rarely ever depicts us, we go a little further in finding representation even if it's ambiguous. I don't know where the line is drawn there... like in anime fandoms it's so often that a black person identifies with a character they see as black and people come to "correct" them that it's actually just a tan.

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Honestly, this. I'm black and at this point, I just want more representation. It'd be nice to have the correct facial features and more emphasis on black culture, but I mean we're getting ahead of ourselves just thinking about that stuff.

We need to actually start using dark skinned characters, then we can talk about what needs doing, next.

 

[Village]

I'll be real blunt with you.

Who gives a fuck what the Smash community thinks? What authority do they have to warrant deferring to their collective opinion, when frankly they've been telling you, me, and every other black person to our faces for literal years that we aren't good enough for Smash but the fucking Wii Fit Trainer and Mr. Game and Watch is? Yeah, they'll whine, complain, feel a spot was "taken from them. But fuck 'em. It's not like ultimately they care about your black ass.

There's no reason to kowtow to gamers in 2021 (or any year, but especially after the fuckery of last year) on the basis of how you feel your blackness gets to be on screen. If you want black characters, then say so. We don't need qualifiers for our inclusion, because I guarantee you no one else- especially whites- are putting qualifiers on theirs. If they get to show up for no reason, so do we. So yes, when people start adding qualifiers that only black characters need to meet to even exist, all you're doing is playing into racist tropes, which anyone can do. Even if you're doing it for reasons of self-preservation, it is ultimately indistinguishable from outright racist rhetoric from some of the more insidious folks here. If this is a wake-up call, then good. Now you know.

Now then: Lúcio for Smash.

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No black people
but fucking piranha plant, you don't get to say qualifiers when the fucking plant is in smash

 

[Gestault]

No yeah, OP definitely made a lot of great points, and I thank this thread and the discussion surrounding it for giving me a lot to think about in regards to my own internal biases. Didn't think a Smash thread would get me close to crying but eh, stuff does happen.

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Definitely. The emotions tied to this stuff are no joke.

 

[The Adder]

Reminder for anyone talking about "well, but, Japan"

It took Street Fighter two games. Capcom got it right 30 years ago.

 

[SalvaPot]

I'm actually having a tad bit of a realization/emotional crisis right now involving this, after having read some other takes in the thread plus the update to OP. I might actually be secretly terrified at the backlash a character might receive for being similar to another character. I'm scared that if Marina gets in, the conversation won't be about her finally being a black character getting in, it would be around how she's just an inkling clone and a "waste of a spot." I'm scared Doc Louis will be dismissed as a bad choice simply due to being a mere Little Mac clone.

I think the reason why I feel a black character needs to be unique and stand on their own as a character is because I don't want the character to get backlash from the Smash community for being derivative. I want a black character to get in and get no backlash from a gameplay perspective since that would overshadow the fact that that a black character got in. If Nagoriyuki got in, I feel the conversation would revolve around him being a sword fighter rather than black. I don't want the black character to get more hate than they will already get from racists for being supposedly uninspired, and that's fucking terrifying. I fucking hate that I'm scared that I have to fear a black character getting backlash. I don't quite know why I feel that scared, and I feel might be something I've accidentally internalized or something.

The fact that my honest thoughts on this got me, a young black man, compared to a fucking white supremacist is giving me some severe anxiety almost to the point of nearly crying and if this whole thread ultimately ends up changing my views on diversity in smash (and diversity in gaming media in general) I think you did your job OP...

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Hey man, videogame discussions can get intense and I hope you are ok.

When something is popular it always has detractors, always always. There is no such a thing as something that is made for everyone, and in the internet in particular it seems like hating on something is just "cooler"".

If a black characters gets in you can be sure a lot of people will celebrate, and sadly a good amount of people will find a reason to hate on it. It's just how it is. Look at the COVID crisis and how some people literally protest the distribuition of vaccines because they don't believe in them, ignorance and upbringing is at fault for a lot of terrible things.

The smash community has a lot of noisy people that will hate on anything that is not their specific want. Don't be afraid of them, it's ok to enjoy what you enjoy. What would make you happy? What would make others happy?

I think this thread is great because It's actually asking for something meaningful: representation. Personally, I think it's a hard task to make happen because it's clear it's not a Nintendo priority. And if I'm 100% honest, it's not something I want to think that much about because it's a game I love. But we can love something and criticize it. And ultimately it matters.

Maybe if enough people raise their voice Nintendo will shift their priorities and make it happen. That is what this thread is about.

 

[Neiteio]

I think the most striking observation in this thread for me has been how games with character creators nearly always default to white dudes. One of those design choices that has become so normalized.

 

[Village]

We need to actually start using dark skinned characters, then we can talk about what needs doing, next.

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Then make them cool, which is another issues entirely. I have played so many games where the black dude is the least cool dude in the room. Part of better representation is allowing black people to just be cool. And smash would be a perfect venue for that

 

[HeroR]

To be fair, I think we have to consider that for a lot of black people growing up with this media that rarely ever depicts us, we go a little further in finding representation even if it's ambiguous. I don't know where the line is drawn there... like in anime fandoms it's so often that a black person identifies with a character they see as black and people come to "correct" them that it's actually just a tan.

Like how many people see Brock from Pokémon as black? I don't think he actually is but am I wrong in saying that or are people wrong in identifying blackness within that character? Perhaps the problem is at the root what I already pointed out as a scarce selection of black representation. Idk, I'm just rolling out my thoughts as opposed to making a counter stance.

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The anime fandom is weird. Like how black men call Piccolo a black character and I still don't get till this day. As for the 'ambiguous black', it never bothered me too much since anime is weird about how they show race. Like Sailor Moon who has blond hair, blue eyes, and is often drawn pale is Japanese.

Games, however, tend to be less ambiguous on modern times. Like there is no denying that Doc from Punch Out is black. Little Mac is interesting since he's Italian and can be classified as non-white since there are parts of Italy with dark-skin people and Mac in modern material is drawn tan skin and features that are not just 'white'. Which is why some think he's hispanic.

 

[Apath]

.

 

[PaperSparrow]

People trying to excuse Japan with "they can't help it, they're a homogeneous culture who have never had to deal with diversity" really need to stop. Not only are you treating them like shut-in children who couldn't possibly know better, you are erasing black Japanese people among others who face discrimination there.

 

[L Thammy]

I've seen the idea of a black Fire Emblem character mentioned in this and some other threads, and so I also think it's worth mentioning that Fire Emblem's arrangement has a unique opportunity. Because they switch out characters every game, making diversity decisions for their main character is easier for Fire Emblem than with other series that commit more to their main characters. Fire Emblem could make the next customizable playable avatar black by default and push that appearance in marketing, then go back with the next game as if nothing had happened.

In fact, Fire Emblem's biggest competition in the Japanese SRPG field has already done this, and it also uses a format wherein the main characters are usually switched out every game. It included a Hispanic lead protagonist option in 2000 and a black lead protagonist option in 2008, both in games that were Japan-exclusive. The Fire Emblem series has still not totally caught up to Super Robot Wars in terms of unit sales the last I checked despite the latter being almost totally Japan-only (Super Robot Wars has sold 19 million as of 2020 whereas Fire Emblem sold 16 per the respective companies' own official statements).

So Fire Emblem's competition has already demonstrated that it's capable of supporting a black lead character was and still remains successful despite doing it. And, of course, Fire Emblem is taking a position of Smash newcomer mainstay to the point that the series is penciled into the roster before the character and their are even finalized in their source game.

 

[RyanBankz]

1st let me state.. I'm a black dude.

Started off reading thinking it was gonna be an overly "woke" rant but my mind was completely changed by the end. Such a good read. Thanks for putting that together OP.

For years I've been wanting more diversity in my games. I remember being a kid I would naturally gravitate towards picking a black character because it's like "Hey! People like me can star in games" and it was a good feeling.

Many years later the gaming industry has multiplied. Many more eyes are on the product. I think it's important for impressionable kids to see diversity. They step outside into the world and they see many races. Why can't it be the same for their entertainment??? Thanks again for the awareness bro!

 

[L Thammy]

I only dabbled in Punch-Out Wii, but from my immersion in the Nintendo fandom I always thought King Hippo was the big bad. Granted, I didn't get far enough to see him or Sandman. (Not even sure what Sandman looks like, come to think of it. I do remember a Black guy who danced.)

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The dancing one is DIsco Kid. King Hippo's always been in the middle of the game when he's appeared, Mr. Sandman was the final boss of the original arcade Punch Out as well as the Wii one. I believe the Wii one also uses Mr. Sandman to reference the Mike Tyson and his fight from the NES game.

Haven't watched this video, but it looks like it might be a good one for this character:

 

[IHaveIce]

Good OP and yeah it is a travesty.

Twintelle was such a good choice for a female poc character and they messed it up.

 

[HeroR]

It's touched on in the OP, but this really feels like a combination of Super Smash Bros having an issue with inclusion being compounded by a lack of inclusion in the industry as whole. In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single black main character in any major Nintendo franchise (Splatoon, I guess?).

Either way, I'd argue that a game with a roster of nearly 100 iconic gaming characters failing to include even a single black character in the main roster is beyond problematic.

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Doc from Punch-Out. Probably one of the most iconic black men that Nintendo has unironically. He was even in a Smash commercial:

 

[Neiteio]

I've seen the idea of a black Fire Emblem character mentioned in this and some other threads, and so I also think it's worth mentioning that Fire Emblem's arrangement has a unique opportunity. Because they switch out characters every game, making diversity decisions for their main character is easier for Fire Emblem than with other series that commit more to their main characters. Fire Emblem could make the next customizable playable avatar black by default and push that appearance in marketing, then go back with the next game as if nothing had happened.

In fact, Fire Emblem's biggest competition in the Japanese SRPG field has already done this, and it also uses a format wherein the main characters are usually switched out every game. It included a Hispanic lead protagonist option in 2000 and a black lead protagonist option in 2008, both in games that were Japan-exclusive. The Fire Emblem series has still not totally caught up to Super Robot Wars in terms of unit sales the last I checked despite the latter being almost totally Japan-only (Super Robot Wars has sold 19 million as of 2020 whereas Fire Emblem sold 16 per the respective companies' own official statements).

So Fire Emblem's competition has already demonstrated that it's capable of supporting a black lead character was and still remains successful despite doing it. And, of course, Fire Emblem is taking a position of Smash newcomer mainstay to the point that the series is penciled into the roster before the character and their are even finalized in their source game.

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That's really neat. Any pics of the Black lead from Super Robot Wars?

 

[Merc_]

I'm actually having a tad bit of a realization/emotional crisis right now involving this, after having read some other takes in the thread plus the update to OP. I might actually be secretly terrified at the backlash a character might receive for being similar to another character. I'm scared that if Marina gets in, the conversation won't be about her finally being a black character getting in, it would be around how she's just an inkling clone and a "waste of a spot." I'm scared Doc Louis will be dismissed as a bad choice simply due to being a mere Little Mac clone.

I think the reason why I feel a black character needs to be unique and stand on their own as a character is because I don't want the character to get backlash from the Smash community for being derivative. I want a black character to get in and get no backlash from a gameplay perspective since that would overshadow the fact that that a black character got in. If Nagoriyuki got in, I feel the conversation would revolve around him being a sword fighter rather than black. I don't want the black character to get more hate than they will already get from racists for being supposedly uninspired, and that's fucking terrifying. I fucking hate that I'm scared that I have to fear a black character getting backlash. I don't quite know why I feel that scared, and I feel might be something I've accidentally internalized or something.

The fact that my honest thoughts on this got me, a young black man, compared to a fucking white supremacist is giving me some severe anxiety almost to the point of nearly crying and if this whole thread ultimately ends up changing my views on diversity in smash (and diversity in gaming media in general) I think you did your job OP...

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The Smash fanbase gets mad about every new character for pretty much any reason. No matter who is chosen they'll get at least some backlash for not being whoever the angry person wanted, so you shouldn't concern yourself with that. Hell, even Sephiroth had people whining about him being added to the game.

As for black characters, I don't see one being added this pass. MAYBE if there is a next pass and this becomes enough of an issue that Nintendo and Sakurai hear about it.

 

[skillzilla81]

Who gives a fuck about the smash fanbase when the latest game has sold approximately eleventy bajillion copies?

The people posting online are a minuscule fraction of the people buying and enjoying the game.

 

[Garcia el Gringo]

It's a shame that I move the goal post personally - as it's inexcusable already - but I feel it'll be very telling with whatever the next iteration of Smash is if current-gen black characters Nintendo introduced like Marina and Twintelle aren't front and center alongside Mario and Link. No stage background flavor or assist trophy representation, but a full seat with the prime mascots.

And it goes farther than Smash, even if I understand that Smash is the celebration, it's "making it". Super Mario should absolutely have black heroes. How are Waluigi (wtf?!) and Rosalina added to the human roster before a black character? Nintendo should make black renditions of Zelda and Link. New IP should be built with black mascot characters at the center. Nintendo should have already squared this away with so it wouldn't even be a stretch for Smash to be diverse with its human characters.

And yet, as already said above, it's inexcusable that Smash doesn't work with what is there and popular and beloved right now. Or that Sakurai doesn't use his influence to lift up these established black characters through Smash representation.

 

[Sesha]

Wow on those spirit choices...

Great post OP, it is kind of sad their is now playable dark skinned characters besides skins or ambiguous characters.

Recently I'd been thinking of human Pokémon characters that could be put into Smash that could play differently from Pokémon Trainer (brought up my idea for Misty elsewhere), Iris is a very popular character and of course Brock... Who unfortunately is also the victim of being paled up in later media and games like the Gen 1 and 2 remakes (why?!)

Unfortunately, I doubt we'll get another human character Pkmn team (would want one though) and even if we did, I could see Giovanni, Blue or Cynthia (how would she work given one of her mains, Lucario is already a character?) getting priority.

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Each of the individual Pokemon chars should have a designated trainer, imo. At the very least. No real reason we can't have, say, Iris, Marshal, Olivia or Nessa for one of the existing Pokemon. Aside from "it's always been like this so it can't change now", but who gives a shit about that.

 

[L Thammy]

That's really neat. Any pics of the Black lead from Super Robot Wars?

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Rand Travis here is one of two character options in this game, with both having their own stories. The other is Setsuko here:

 

[SalvaPot]

The dancing one is DIsco Kid. King Hippo's always been in the middle of the game when he's appeared, Mr. Sandman was the final boss of the original arcade Punch Out as well as the Wii one. I believe the Wii one also uses Mr. Sandman to reference the Mike Tyson and his fight from the NES game.

Haven't watched this video, but it looks like it might be a good one for this character:

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Honestly I love the idea of Mr. Sandman. Huge reach, can put enemies to sleep, make the hug his side B, debastating upercutt as the Up-B.

Doc Louis has more options. You can use his Bike as his side B to give him some recovery.

 

[Neoxon]

Each of the individual Pokemon chars should have a designated trainer, imo. At the very least. No real reason we can't have, say, Iris, Marshal, Olivia, Nessa or Leon for one of the existing Pokemon. Aside from "it's always been like this so it can't change now", but who gives a shit about that.

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Professor Thorgi actually had this exact idea for his dream Pokkén 2 roster.

 

[dgamemaster]

I'll be real blunt with you.

Who gives a fuck what the Smash community thinks? What authority do they have to warrant deferring to their collective opinion, when frankly they've been telling you, me, and every other black person to our faces for literal years that we aren't good enough got Smash but the fucking Wii Fit Trainer and Mr. Game and Watch is? Yeah, they'll whine, complain, feel a spot was "taken from them. But fuck 'em. It's not like ultimately they care about your black ass.

There's no reason to kowtow to gamers in 2021 (or any year, but especially after the fuckery of last year) on the basis of how you feel your blackness gets to be on screen. If you want black characters, then say so. We don't need qualifiers for our inclusion, because I guarantee you no one else- especially whites- are putting qualifiers on theirs. If they get to show up for no reason, so do we. So yes, when people start adding qualifiers that only black characters need to meet to exist, all you're doing is playing into racist tropes, which anyone can do. But it is indistinguishable from outright racist rhetoric from some of the more insidious folks here. If this is a wake-up call, then good. Now you know.

Now then: Lúcio for Smash.

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And this post is what made me start to cry. I want the Smash community to care about these things. Smash is one of the greatest games I've ever played and I love seeing all the discussion surrounding speculation and all that, but oh so frequently I've seen people within the community turn it to absolute shit. I know there are figures within the Smash community that does care about diversity and these things, but it's been hard for me to find them. I find it hard to believe that no one cares. I find it disgusting that very few prominent figures care about promoting diversity in the smash. I find it disgusting that a view I had about qualifiers for Smash which I had applied in general to all characters of any skin tone, would end up indirectly perpetuating racist rhetoric.

I understand that maybe the Smash community won't care, and it might be foolish, but I do wonder if there's any way said discussion can change within the Smash community. Still though, thanks for giving me this wake-up call. It's much appreciated. (And yes, Lucio would be a great choice for Smash)

 

[Deleted member 33533]

Honestly, this. I'm black and at this point, I just want more representation. It'd be nice to have the correct facial features and more emphasis on black culture, but I mean we're getting ahead of ourselves just thinking about that stuff.

We need to actually start using dark skinned characters, then we can talk about what needs doing, next.

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Yes and I think a lot of scrutiny comes down to specific facial or hair features being required for a character to be black. Like reading this thread, apparently Hop and Leon from Pokémon can't be black but Nessa is? But in terms of physical traits, they both have dark skin and that's it. What's the difference?

The anime fandom is weird. Like how black men call Piccolo a black character and I still don't get till this day. As for the 'ambiguous black', it never bothered me too much since anime is weird about how they show race. Like Sailor Moon who has blond hair, blue eyes, and is often drawn pale is Japanese.

Games, however, tend to be less ambiguous on modern times. Like there is no denying that Doc from Punch Out is black. Little Mac is interesting since he's Italian and can be classified as non-white since there are parts of Italy with dark-skin people and Mac in modern material is drawn tan skin and features that are not just 'white'. Which is why some think he's hispanic.

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I think the Piccolo one is because of the severe lack of black characters in Dragon Ball. Black kids growing up with the show had to pull out traits of the character to see themselves in him just to have someone to identify with.

The ambiguously black topic is a difficult one because while we deserve undeniably black characters, a character being ambiguously black in any way is often used to deny black people from identifying with them. And so we end up caught in this weird area of questioning if a character is really black or not because they might have straight hair or blue eyes, light colored hair etc.

For example, I always saw Flavia from FE as a black woman but she has blonde, straight hair. Is she too ambiguously black to be black? If someone sees her as black should we say they're wrong? I don't know tbh, it's a messy subject.

 

[Sesha]

Professor Thorgi actually had this exact idea for his dream Pokkén 2 roster.

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Great minds etc etc. Give me Nessa controlling Blastoise/Greninja / Bea controlling R. Pika/Hawlucha/Incineroar or give me death.

 

[Tavernade]

I would hope that Nintendo is actually aware of this issue by now. Hopefully it can be on their mind to push into action either for the next Smash or the next Nintendo crossover (if there's one before). I recall Sakurai talked during Smash 4 about wanting to include more female characters in the roster and, you know, did. It is a little concerning that this conversation was happening before Fighter's Pass 2 was announced and we don't really see any hints of its impact yet. Doc Louis, Mr. Sandman, and Marina could all have been Wolf/Isabelle-like characters they could have pushed forward with alongside the locked-in FP2 cast to fix things (it's not like they don't have the budget to) but we haven't really seen any fixes or public statements at all that I'm aware of.

 

[Trejo]

I have nothing to contribute to this conversation other than to say I think this is a great thread and I agree with most of the points raised by the OP. Here's hoping to see some much needed change going forward.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Btw, if any mod or admin is reading this, I saw that Kakadu18's ban was made permanent, and I want you to know I appreciate it.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

I've said it before, but (outside of the spirit battle stuff), I don't fully agree.

Of the potential chars listed, I can only imagine Marina or Rodin getting in (and I hope they do), but otherwise the pipeline is bare.

I'd actually also add that I feel like it's very much a Western view. That is to say - Uub in DBFZ or Min Min in Smash are treated as "oh, that's nice, but we still need a specific black character."

Comparatively, if we had a black character and no Indian coded characters or Chinese characters in these games, it wouldn't be a topic. On top of that, we're not asking for more Chinese/Indian characters... we're specifically asking for black characters.

That's where I'm willing to give Japan a pass - there are tons of other cultures that need representation just as much as black characters.

Which isn't meant to be "whataboutism," but rather "this isn't a place where I'm willing to call anti-blackness, because I don't think there's sufficient justification for that." In another culture, sure.

As for the Street Fighters and Tekkens of the world - they can make up characters as they please. And for Street Fighter in particular, it set out to be a very worldwide kind of game and roster.

 

[Deleted member 59126]

They're a global company, and represent a major pillar of gaming worldwide. They don't get to not be part of that conversation.

Smash Bros alone represents decades of Nintendo franchises. It's not out of place to ask Nintendo "where the fuck are the black and brown people".

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I agree with you. As a global company, they should strive to cater to a global audience. The argument that their Japanese culture excuses them only works if they where predominantly targeting Japanese audiences. Smash Brothers doesn't actually sell that well in Japan and has long been a "foreign" success for Nintendo. If they want to stay relevant to western audiences then they should dedicate time and resources to representing the audiences that they are selling products to. Otherwise they deserve to be left behind.

 

[sulis]

There is no "basic requirement". It's Nintendo's product and they can put in whoever they want. A charcater that players can identify with should be very important, especially at this point. There are 80+ characters now. Aren't we past these silly arbitrary metrics for exclusion?

Also, Nintendo is at the forefront of the industry and this game has high visibility, so they are in the perfect position to take a step to address the problem by making a positive move in terms of inclusion. They are choosing not to by hiding behind these so-called requirements, which have been addressed already.

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For smash it is, they want to sell DLC, there is no point to add a secondary character unless it is overwhelmingly more iconic than the main character.
Since main characters are mostly white dudes, most gamers will most likely want these characters to be added to the game first.
Black characters a mostly secondary characters in the gaming industry. Not hard to understand.

Arms is the only game where we might have gotten a black character, and we already know why that did not happen. There is no point to try to insinuate why sakurai didn't think of twintelle.

 

[Ashlette]

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I don't know why people keep bringing up this image up. To prove that Japanese people are unfamiliar with race? As a joke? I swear, at this point parody is dead.

Might as well post Tucker Carlson and say that his beliefs reflect every American person's.

 

[Instro]

The unfortunate nature of it being a mascot based fighter is that it's also a big reminder that popular video game characters have been almost entirely white/light skinned, and the other chunk are non-human creatures.

It's ultimately going to take a conscious effort from Nintendo to target some non-white characters even if they are lesser known. Nintendo internally creating a non white mascot at this stage seems kind of slim since even when they do create new characters it's often not human. Monolith at least seems to try, given Elma, but Xenoblade X wasn't popular. Maybe one of their other partner studios will do it. That said for immediate Smash purposes obviously getting some from 3rd parties is easier.

On that note, I think someone like Lucio from Overwatch would be a good one. Activision/Blizzard is not a company they've typically partnered with, and Overwatch has a really great cast to choose from that would fit with Smash.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Smash does need more black characters, Doc louis and Twintelle would be great characters for Smash (I personally want Akuma too but he'd be another villain...).

Nintendo really needs to be more aware and diverse about this subject because a lot of their series until recently didn't even have a black option for characters in their big franchises.

It took until Animal crossing happy home academy to let people choose a darker skin villager.
Pokemon Sun/Moon was the first in the series to add a black character option.
FIRE EMBLEM STILL does not let you create a darker skin option for a customization character in the veins of Robin/Corrin.

Let's not forget Nintendo went and patched out same sex marriage in Tomodachi life, only to give a half ass response they''ll add it to the next mythical game.

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Being a minority myself, representation in smash is the last thing I'm looking for in a game about (mostly) classic gaming icons. Which does highlight the fact that there are barely any classic gaming icons who are gay or black, etc. At least not as the main heroes. Having said that, I don't see Smash as being anti anything.

 

[A Syrian Communist]

I liked Twintelle but the fact her ARMS are on her hair made her not that representative of the franchise, I feel that hurt her chances. Maybe as a second rep if ARMS 2 blows up? I'll like that.

Rodin with a similar moveset like Bayo would be cool, he is awesome.

I think Marina would be great but if she makes it then you'll need Pearl too. Also I would expect octolings to get in first and I hope the default the black skin.

Elma is awesome but if you have not played Xenoblade X you wouldn't realize she has a few twist of her own that makes her don't fit what the thread wants.

Doc Louis would be a... bigger, stronger, slower Mac? I can see it, give him an attack that makes hiw throw chocolate around, lol. Honestly I think Sandman would be cool too, but the more I think about the comedy potential of Doc Louis the more I want him.

Shinobu over Travis would be cool, but I see that hard to happen if Travis is not already in.

Garret as the third character on the same game with a franchise with several games that don't have representation would trigger another thread war, lol. Sephiroth felt like a miracle.

Ooof, I don't know man, I feel that Nintendo may feel they don't have a quota to fill, or maybe they think that adding the inkling/villager black skins are good enough. If you look at Japanese media in general Darker Skin is usually just not used for protagonists, just looking at your list is sad. It does make sense because, well, they just don't see people of darker skiin over there as much. The 3 times I traveled to Japan I had people staring at me, even kids pointing at me because I'm brown. They are nice enough but it's just exotic to them. And that is not taking into account the inherent xenophobia that comes by default.

The fact that even with Western 3rd Parties its hard to come up with an iconic black character it's tellng of the larger issue on the industry.

If anything I'm still angry Daisy is white in smash.

Sigh...

But back on topic, I guess Twintelle was the big chance if they wanted to get a genuine Black character in, instead we got Min Min that is cool with me since she is Chinese.

So my hope is on the octolings, Splatoon is big enough to get more than one rep. I don't think it's happening on Ultimate, but I 100% expect Sakurai to stop at this round of DLC and Nintendo to decide they want to make more and pass the development to someone else to keep adding characters to this game.

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I know that Daisy was supposed to be an Egyptian Princess or whatever in concept in the original game but was she actually ever illustrated as anything other than White?

 

[Neoxon]

The unfortunate nature of it being a mascot based fighter is that it's also a big reminder that popular video game characters have been almost entirely white/light skinned, and the other chunk are non-human creatures.

It's ultimately going to take a conscious effort from Nintendo to target some non-white characters even if they are lesser known. Nintendo internally creating a non white mascot at this stage seems kind of slim since even when they do create new characters it's often not human. Monolith at least seems to try, given Elma, but Xenoblade X wasn't popular. Maybe one of their other partner studios will do it. That said for immediate Smash purposes obviously getting some from 3rd parties is easier.

On that note, I think someone like Lucio from Overwatch would be a good one. Activision/Blizzard is not a company they've typically partnered with, and Overwatch has a really great cast to choose from that would fit with Smash.

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Funny enough, Jeff Kaplan would be between Tracer & Doomfist if he was given the chance to choose an Overwatch rep for Smash like the opportunity Yabuki was given for the ARMS rep. But as you said, ActiBlizz.......

 

[Gay Bowser]

I've said it before, but (outside of the spirit battle stuff), I don't fully agree.

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I don't think we can view that spirit battle stuff in a vacuum, though. Like, I think we're at 80+ characters and no black people expressly because the people making the game are the type of people who make choices like those spirit battles.

Arms is the only game where we might have gotten a black character

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[citation needed]

 

[Merc_]

Yes and I think a lot of scrutiny comes down to specific facial or hair features being required for a character to be black. Like reading this thread, apparently Hop and Leon from Pokémon can't be black but Nessa is? But in terms of physical traits, they both have dark skin and that's it. What's the difference?

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In Nessa's case it's aided by her voice actress being a black woman. I get your point though and that's just certain anime styles in general. Some will put emphasis on our features and others won't and we'll just look like a dark skinned white/Japanese character.

 

[Hybrid Rainbow]

I'll be real blunt with you.

Who gives a fuck what the Smash community thinks? What authority do they have to warrant deferring to their collective opinion, when frankly they've been telling you, me, and every other black person to our faces for literal years that we aren't good enough for Smash but the fucking Wii Fit Trainer and Mr. Game and Watch is? Yeah, they'll whine, complain, feel a spot was "taken from them. But fuck 'em. It's not like ultimately they care about your black ass.

There's no reason to kowtow to gamers in 2021 (or any year, but especially after the fuckery of last year) on the basis of how you feel your blackness gets to be on screen. If you want black characters, then say so. We don't need qualifiers for our inclusion, because I guarantee you no one else- especially whites- are putting qualifiers on theirs. If they get to show up for no reason, so do we. So yes, when people start adding qualifiers that only black characters need to meet to even exist, all you're doing is playing into racist tropes, which anyone can do. Even if you're doing it for reasons of self-preservation, it is ultimately indistinguishable from outright racist rhetoric from some of the more insidious folks here. If this is a wake-up call, then good. Now you know.

Now then: Lúcio for Smash.

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Holy shit this is a fantastic post.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Yes and I think a lot of scrutiny comes down to specific facial or hair features being required for a character to be black. Like reading this thread, apparently Hop and Leon from Pokémon can't be black but Nessa is? But in terms of physical traits, they both have dark skin and that's it. What's the difference?

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She's darker than them, that's all I can think of? But yeah I never got this either.

The "ambiguously dark skinned" stuff is really weird and awkward topic because as you said, it's often used to shut down black people seeing themselves in these characters. On the other end though you also do have the prevalent assumption, that having brown or dark skin tones means black (OP initially used melanin to specifically describe black people, even, despite brown people existing?) that kinda feels like erasure. I feel like people should head canon or identify them as whatever they want there which is kinda where I think "ambiguous" helps here, but it doesn't work when these characters are the majority in Japanese media.

 

[The Adder]

I'd actually also add that I feel like it's very much a Western view. That is to say - Uub in DBFZ or Min Min in Smash are treated as "oh, that's nice, but we still need a specific black character."

Comparatively, if we had a black character and no Indian coded characters or Chinese characters in these games, it wouldn't be a topic. On top of that, we're not asking for more Chinese/Indian characters... we're specifically asking for black characters.

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What country is "black" from?