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Oct 26, 2017
8,206
Via NYTimes:
"It's good to be in something from the ground floor. I came too late for that, I know. But lately, I'm getting the feeling that I came in at the end." —Tony Soprano

You're wrong about that one, Tony. It may be that no TV show does anything entirely new — change always builds on change. But "The Sopranos" was as clear a marker of the beginning of an era (even if I hate the term "Golden Age") as anything in TV.

Before "The Sopranos," yes, TV dramas could take risks ("Twin Peaks") and tell stories about difficult people ("NYPD Blue"). But after the ducks landed in Tony's backyard pool in January 1999, an immense flock followed. TV series, we saw, could rely on audiences to pay close attention to a long-running story. They could have high visual and narrative ambitions. They could resist quick answers (or any answers, in the case of the Russian from "Pine Barrens") and tidy moral conclusions.

If "The Sopranos," which debuted 20 years ago this week, built the ground floor, this list looks at what TV erected on top of it. These are the 20 best drama series to emerge since "The Sopranos," arranged in chronological order.

For the sake of focus and sanity, Mike Hale, Margaret Lyons and I limited our debates to American series TV drama. What is American? (Shows made specifically for the United States TV market rather than acquired.) What is a series? (Shows that were meant to continue more than one season.) What is TV? (What isn't, these days? Anything broadcast, cable or streaming was fair game.)

Oh, yeah: What is "best"? It's not "most influential" (sometimes great art is inimitable) or "most widely praised" (a cop-out). Here, it's the subjective, rough consensus of three humans, each with different tastes and priorities, after argument and bargaining. It ain't science. The final judgment, while hopefully well-informed, is no more inherently right than yours.

The trickiest question, though, was, What is a drama? Episode length isn't an absolute guide, and awards nominations are no help. ("Orange Is the New Black," say, has been Emmy nominated as both comedy and drama.)

I'd like to say we came up with some bulletproof formula — length plus tears divided by jokes — but truth is, we went by feel. "Transparent," by our lights, is clearly a drama, awards submissions notwithstanding; "30 Rock" is plainly not. The nebulous in-between zone is where some of the best TV is being made now, and that's where some of our later picks come from (like "Atlanta," which can be TV's best drama or its best comedy any given week).

If our resulting list stretches the definition of drama, good: "The Sopranos" certainly did. (It was the funniest show on TV most weeks it was on.) You'd swap out some shows here and there. (So would we, individually, and we wrote about some of our near-misses too.) But step back, and I think this list broadly tells the story of what American TV drama has become over two decades.

Looking at this period historically, or geologically, I see three somewhat overlapping sub-eras. Concurrent with "The Sopranos," a set of dramas took TV staples (the cop show, the western, the sci-fi saga), roughed them up and problematized them. Next, starting around "Mad Men" (from "Sopranos" alum Matthew Weiner), drama ventured into more varied subject matter (and a greater variety of outlets).

Finally — the period we're still in now — came the Great Diversification, not just of characters (Tony's early followers were a lot of middle-aged white guys with agita) but formats, styles, voices and tones.

What comes next? We were conscious (and maybe a little surprised) that only one streaming-TV series made this list. I've theorized before that just like in the early days of TV, comedy is more easily adaptable to new platforms, whereas drama is still figuring out how to mesh episodic TV with the endlessness of the binge. Very likely the next version of this list (which you'll read in 10 or 20 years on your corneal implants) will reflect how the next wave of dramas evolved to master that format, and maybe others.

"The Sopranos," we all remember, ended with a cut to black. The genre that followed, though, takes its cue from the lyrics of Tony's final jukebox selection, "Don't Stop Believin'": It goes on and on and on and on.

The West Wing
The Shield
The Wire
Battlestar Galactica
Deadwood
Lost
Veronica Mars
Grey's Anatomy
Friday Night Lights
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
The Good Wife
Adventure Time
Enlightened
The Americans
Rectify
The Leftovers
Transparent
Jane The Virgin
Atlanta

Halt and Catch Fire
Justified
Queen Sugar
Southland
Game of Thrones

Saw this pop on my Facebook feed. Originally from January. I would recommend reading the whole feature so you can better understand why certain choices are on the list. Lock if old.
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,025
I respect that they at least included it in Toughest Omissions, but I'll maintain that Halt and Catch Fire is one of the best TV dramas of all time (and my personal favorite by a good measure)
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
Imagine putting a single cartoon on this list, and choosing something other than Avatar: The Last Airbender.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I personally would knock off those last two (Jane the Virgin and Atlanta) and replace with Game of Thrones and True Detective Season 1 if that could count
 

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,725
Deadwood, Mad Men and Breaking Bad are as close to that quality of television we have come.

Game of thrones seasons 1-3 and part of 4 was on its way.
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
I don't care about any omissions so long as FNL made the cut. Seriously everyone recommends breaking bad and the wire but I contend Friday Night Lights competes with them. Watch it.
 

Chunky Alien

Member
Feb 25, 2019
111
So The Wire isn't unequivocally the greatest drama? It has competitors??
giphy.gif
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
Adventure Time, Jane The Virgin, Atlanta? Come the fuck on with these. I'm not even saying they're not quality shows, but they're not top twenty dramas. The rest of the list is mostly solid.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
Can't agree with this, Game of Thrones is absolutely groundbreaking and the TV industry is going to keep trying to find the next thrones. Regardless of the quality of its forthcoming final season, the show will leave a legacy most of these shows can only wish for. People will be rewatching the 'Raines of Castarmere', 'Battle of the Bastards', 'Hardhome' and the end of 'The Door' for years. It's not just hugely popular just because of the sex or the 'who is going to die?" fad. The show has been very effective at what it tries to do, acting, visuals and mostly a sensible adaptation of its strong source material. I know a few weak moments "Bad pussy" Jaime's development being slower than the book but it's mostly great.

Also worth mentioning Hannibal
 
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MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,025
I stopped midway through the first season. Is the rest that much better?
Definitively. The first season has a lot of value in establishing starting points for the characters, but is inconsistent for sure. Season 2 is where the kind of quality people praise the show really starts to become clear (the entire 'pitch' of what the show focuses on also shifts permanently from the getgo in S2). There are almost no critically low-reviewed episodes henceforth once you get moving in season 2. And Seasons 3 and 4 are master class television, that even manage to retroactively frame season 1 as a valuable starting point.

I'm also a big sucker for a show sticking the landing and Halt and Catch Fire has one of the best ending episodes I've seen.

It's worth acknowledging that as a software developer an game maker (game-making becomes a bigger focus later in the series) the show really spoke to me. That may bleed into my high praise for it, but in terms of stories about the sense of comeraderie that comes about when people create together Halt and Catch Fire has a lot to say, and says it really well.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,911
The Netherlands
Good to see The Leftovers in that list.

Also, I was getting annoyed that Six Feet Under wasn't mentioned, but it started and ended during Sopranos run :o
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I get that the writing isn't exactly stellar these days but Game of Thrones was still robbed. There is nothing like it on TV.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
Grey's Anatomy, Adventure Time, Transparent, and Atlanta absolutely should not be on the list. Also, omitting non-American shows for reasons is dumb.
 

KNZFive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,756
Adventure Time is hardly a drama.
I can handle arguments for Adventure Time being a better overall cartoon than its peers based on its creativity, but I'd argue Steven Universe and definitely Avatar: The Last Airbender handle drama much better than it. AT had a tendency for not sticking the landing and defaulting to a joke when it came to some dramatic moments.

Either way, I wouldn't put any of those three on a Top 20 of best dramas, except maybe Avatar. One could make an argument for Bojack Horseman as a character drama though.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,640
Adventure Time? That's brazy

Anyways, as long as The Americans and Atlanta is on there, I'm cool
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,129
Australia
Adventure Time is a good show, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it belongs among the others in this list.
It's clearly a comedy first, with occasional limited drama here and there.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,261
If you're gonna include an animated show in the list choose The Venture Bros. It is in a league beyond stuff like Adventure Time and I'll straight up say its a better show than half those listed in the OP. Its an amazing show that has run for nearly 2 decades and there are few to no shows as daring as The Venture Bros. Its quite possibly the greatest thing Adult Swim has ever created and quite possibly one of the best animated shows ever made.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,809
Adventure Time, Jane The Virgin, Atlanta? Come the fuck on with these. I'm not even saying they're not quality shows, but they're not top twenty dramas. The rest of the list is mostly solid.
Teddy Perkins and Wood. Some of the best dramatic episodes of TV period. Adventure Time is a great character drama. Can't speak for Jand since I only saw the first season but good that the list isn't just a bunch of Difficult anti hero men show.
 

Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
Rectify, The Wire, The Americans and The Leftovers are the only ones that really matter. Looking back at Breaking Bad, it comes off as more of a male power fantasy than a drama.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
Most of my favorite dramas are on there so I can dig it.

Only omission is Better Call Saul. I still really need to get around to The Americans, The West Wing, and The Leftovers. Oh, and I need to watch the last season of Rectify.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,809
If you're gonna include an animated show in the list choose The Venture Bros. It is in a league beyond stuff like Adventure Time and I'll straight up say its a better show than half those listed in the OP. Its an amazing show that has run for nearly 2 decades and there are few to no shows as daring as The Venture Bros. Its quite possibly the greatest thing Adult Swim has ever created and quite possibly one of the best animated shows ever made.
Venture Bros has been going on for so long I had to check if it premiered before Sopranos lol.
 

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,744
Deadwood is the best show of all time, better than Sopranos.

Also, Lindelof keeps winning.
 

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,744
Props to getting Veronica Mars on there too. Only the first season is good, but goddamn it is good. One of the best seasons of television ever.
 

OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
I see at least 3 comedies on that list.

But fine, if we allow dramadies - Bojack Horseman absolutely should be here.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I'm in pain over Halt and Catch Fire not being on that list. That show was taken more for granted than The Americans, and that's saying something.