This is fucking wild and horrific. What the hell?! I had no idea about this.
There being no official law stating the age of consent is insane, too.
There being no official law stating the age of consent is insane, too.
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'That's enough': France confronts decades of neglect of incest cases
- Thread starter Shoot
- Start date
I'm glad these things are being put out in the open. We have a long way to go but nothing will improve if we sweep our issues under the rug.
Yeah, just reading up on its prevalence, this is what Wikipedia says :
I really want this old data to be wrong tbh
Well, both are considered incest.
The story that started the nationwide discussion was about a very famous professor and politician being accused of abusing his step son in the 80s.
This types of posts is what happens when your whole knowledge of a country and its culture consists of thread titles.
Both are incest. And, just for the record, the range of this can be anything from improper "touching" to full-on "intercourse" rape.
That 10% figure just made my head spin. I really hope they improve their laws for the sake of their children.13 years is still way too low.
The Ministry of Justice said this week he is in favor of an age of consent of 15 and he added an exception today: he wants it to be 18 when it's an incest case
(Source in French : https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/arti...t-a-18-ans-en-cas-d-inceste_6069936_3224.html)
But with a justice system underfunded and understaffed (I think France is one of the western country who spend the less to its justice system), even if it's a start, it may change nothing and may just be a way to say "look, we are fighting against incest, aren't we the good guys ?" without putting money where your mouth is.
It's old people in charge accepting to put an age in place, but not one high enough for victims to win legal cases against them. As they die off expect the age to rise slowly.
It is but as I found out a few years back in I think a new York Times article on it, maybe elsewhere, that federal age of consent somehow in a lot of the usa can end up meaning jack shit in a lot of cases of sexual abuse and it's disgusting. The article showed how a lot of states have exemptions for marriage below 18 if parents and/or a judge agree to it. And in a lot of regions communities especially they had the data showing that a lot of young girls were sexually abused for years and then if they ended up pregnant at a ridiculous young age from it, the families and judges would push for the abuse victim to marry the abuser so they could hide the "shame" of the abuse and a baby out of wedlock. Which leads to the abuser having basically free reign on the underage victim because a lot of places waive the age limit after you're officially married. It was a disgusting and awful article to read and learn about.
As for the French situation in the OP, very fucked up and I will never understand how people can be so care free with abusing anyone, let alone a child.
Difference being that if a child alleges molestation or if any such crime is revealed in the US swift legal action will take place, while in France it would be considerd concentual if the minor concented to it.
Which sure as shit would not be an argument any lawyer in the US would ever make Polanski would not be charged with a crime in France for what he did but he is a wanted man in the US.
I'm not totally sure I'm understanding molestation, but if violence was used to impose a sexual relationship, it fall under the French law as, at minimum a sexual assault and could also be a rape depending of what was the sexual relationship. A rape, under French law is "any act of sexual penetration, of whatever nature, committed on the person of another person or on the person of the perpetrator by violence, coercion, threat or surprise is rape" (translation be Deepl of article 222-23).
And speaking about swift legal action right after a message saying that in some part of the US, girls are forced to marry their rapist is a bit like the story about the kettle and the pot.
13 is the normal in many places, but not like this.
In Brazil it's 14, but in the case of "hierarchical superiors" (family, teachers, doctors, etc) is considered rape no matter what until 18.
Unless I'm missing something, this simply seems not to be true:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#France
Unfortunately, these numbers are supposedly spiking many places due to people staying home more now right?
I don't know how it works in other countries (I'm not sure I really know how it works in France either), but as far as I understand it, the current French debate is about deciding an age under which someone can not, under any circumstances, consent to a sexual relationship. It would add a new threshold to the list of those already in place (the age of the victim of a rape / sexual assault is already taken into account by French laws) and this one is regularly asked by victims and NGO of victims.
Yeah, the point isn't that these situations aren't punished at all, it's that there's no statutory rape strictly enshrined in the law, as the current law distinguishes between consensual and non-consensual acts with under 15 minors, each bearing a different charge. Organically, judges and juries actually factor in whether meaningful consent could have existed, which is basically the problem here. It shouldn't come to individual appreciations of these situations, and it should be crystal clear that there can be no consent under a certain age.
The article fails to convey the situation and what activists have been fighting for for decades now.
That Wikipedia quote I posted upthread seemed to indicate that. I haven't looked into figures, but incest is probably the number 1 cause of child sexual abuse.
Maybe I should have said it better, but my point would be better expressed if I said that I bet there is a major overlap between the two groups. (Not all French people)
Agreed but the problem here was the excuse that France was more sexually liberated or some nonsense like that.
I interpreted the following to be just that, but I guess it depends on the meaning of "sexual offence":
"The fact of the commission without violence, constraint, threat or surprise of a sexual offence by an adult on the person of a minor under fifteen years of age is punished by five years' imprisonment and a fine of 75,000€."
Not surprising, yet the focus everyday people have is on some stranger doing it.
People need to wake up to this fact and be more aware of the people they let their kids be alone with, especially friends and family.
For all the jokes about rapist priests, how Islam somehow condones pedophilia or how the left is full of rapist.
The only truth is that France really has an issue with sexual abuse.
Hopefully something is done about it?
Like why the fuck hasn't everything about abuse changed in the law books already?
Do we have to wait for the Left to get in power again? (Because we sure as well know anything Right of center isn't going to do shit about it).
Another time for people in the back : Austerity fucked people more than you could possibly imagine.
The only truth is that France really has an issue with sexual abuse.
Hopefully something is done about it?
Like why the fuck hasn't everything about abuse changed in the law books already?
Do we have to wait for the Left to get in power again? (Because we sure as well know anything Right of center isn't going to do shit about it).
A big round of applause to Sarkozy and Dati who decimated our justice system, killing rural France at the same time.
Another time for people in the back : Austerity fucked people more than you could possibly imagine.
There's one, in that intercourse with minors is penalized under the law for minors 15 and under.
What's missing and hugely problematic is a statutory rape law, so that the notion of consent for minors isn't left to the courts or any kind of individual appreciation, which in turn affects the penalty.
OP is basically missing this from the article
Yeah, that stranger danger bullshit is a pet peeve of mine, as our whole perception of these crimes is informed by sensationalist news, TV shows, and movies that for decades have overrepresented super predators while completely ignoring the verifiable fact that a lot of the victims know the criminal.
This segues in turn into a conservative worldview that strangers, foreigners, the other are the ones you should be afraid of when the monster too often lives under the same rooftop. It's a great way to not address the actual issues.
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Baby Boomers, rich ones especially, as many other countries.
As for why ours are so fucked up, that i don't know.
The age of consent thing in France is one of those things I wanna google and find an answer that confirms what this thread is saying. Cause that sounds insane from my perspective. But at the same time I don't wanna. Cause I think I'll get put on a list.