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hersheyfan

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
Manila, Philippines
Tetris Effect (PS4) was one of my top 10 games of 2018 - a truly amazing game, and my new favorite Mizuguchi title. I wouldn't mind buying another digital copy on PC, but I'm content to wait for a Steam release (not giving Sweeney any more money). For shame, Mark MacD!

If they ever ported this to the Switch, though... portable Tetris Effect, yeah thats a double dip for sure.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,706
USA USA USA
wow.. didn't see this one coming to PC at all, but I'm glad it's coming out. That means we may see Dragon Quest Builders some day.. please EGS, throw some money at S-E, thanks.
they don't throw money at them until they're already coming to pc, probably because it would cost significantly more

they had nothing to do with the quantic dream games but for some reason people keep giving them credit for bringing them over
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,934
Are Valve ever going to do something? Or are they just thinking they can wait this out?
 

staedtler

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
Can't wait, don't care what delivery service has it. It could be sold on a damn rice cracker for all I care.
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,934
any attack on epic hurts all of us just like any of epics dumb shit against valve

why would anyone want them to do anything

Oh I wouldn't want any kind of attack or anything, but like, maybe trying to compete a little? Ramp up in house game production for more exclusives? Put in any apparent effort whatsoever?

I realize Epic can't fund exclusives indefinitely, but it's gotta have an impact on Steam if they keep losing nearly every mid-sized (along with some AAAs) game that's announced.

I'm not against the EGS, but my ideal outcome would be Valve being snapped out of complacency and being forced to take EGS seriously.
 

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
Timed exclusive is no problem for me.

I've waited this long to experience Rez in VR(and still waiting, given the knuckle controller fuckup), I can wait a year for this.
 

DeadlyVenom

Member
Apr 3, 2018
2,806
Oh I wouldn't want any kind of attack or anything, but like, maybe trying to compete a little? Ramp up in house game production for more exclusives? Put in any apparent effort whatsoever?

I realize Epic can't fund exclusives indefinitely, but it's gotta have an impact on Steam if they keep losing nearly every mid-sized (along with some AAAs) game that's announced.

I'm not against the EGS, but my ideal outcome would be Valve being snapped out of complacency and being forced to take EGS seriously.

Oh. We are back to the Valve doesn't do anything narrative. Alright.
 

OceanicAir

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
122
It's not "love," terms like "love" or "fanboy" or "stan" or whatever get used in these situations and it is so wrong when the correct reason why people talk passionately about this stuff is much more simple: it's a symbiotic relationship. I don't "love" valve, I don't "love" any gaming company. I left my fanboy shit behind when Sega exited the business. I am very, very passionate about what valve does, because what they do benefits me as someone who wants to make games. There's nothing altruistic about any of the gaming industry. Selling games isn't noble. When I hear things like "Competition is GOOD" it makes me roll my eyes because none of this is a battle between good and evil. None of it is an imperative.

The simple truth is what valve does for the industry benefits them and developers (indiscriminately, including myself) and consumers, while what Epic does for the industry only benefits them and the select developers and not anybody else. It's not a very hard thing to grasp.

EDIT: Take this a step further, I don't hate tim sweeny or epic games or any of that, we just don't align on what is being done at all. I don't hold allegiances. 12 months ago, I was agreeing with Tim Sweeney and felt Microsoft was doing real harm to the PC gaming ecosystem, and today my feelings on both have switched. I care less about the "who" and more about what they're doing and saying at any given moment. If Valve and Epic switched practices, I'd be critical as fuck about valve as well. If valve starts buying exclusives to "combat" epic, I'll be pissed.

Again, it's not about love or hate or any of that. The current EGS exclusivity situation just presents too many negatives for me without seeing any positives. Simple as that.
All those feelings might not be concerning you in particular, I was talking in a general sense. All of this is not a passive relationship with an indifferent company that doesn't care about your coming to vocally back them up. And a majority of people aren't developing games and aren't coming from your perspective. And I wasn't really using love in a negative fashion, it was more in the passion standpoint. It also would be easier to believe that the sentiment towards Epic isn't hatred if the same level of ire was sent to companies that accept the money because that action should be worse. When discord has its timed exclusives there wasn't as much of a hubbub, it seems largely due to interest the game itself than the action independently. No mass calls for boycotts of their services either.

And honestly, what's really sad is the whole exclusivity thing is not even why I bought stuff from EGS, it was their mega sale which was good me as a consumer.

Which is why I can't agree with the opinion that Epic does nothing for consumers because I literally get free games every week and I got $10 off 3 different games on their bill. I wasn't the only one who took advantage of the sale either. Whether or not that's meaningful to you is besides the point.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Which is why I can't agree with the opinion that Epic does nothing for consumers because I literally get free games every week and I got $10 off 3 different games on their bill. I wasn't the only one who took advantage of the sale either. Whether or not that's meaningful to you is besides the point.

When I say "does nothing for the costumer" I mean in the overall dynamic they are promoting. They push the Epic Games Store as a fundamental shift in the way games will be sold to the customer. This contract is spun as "better developer percentages" and "curation." That's their "benefit" to me, that their market is curated. As a consumer, that reads to me as a more limited selection to chose from, and I can already back that view up with specific examples of games. The existence of a few sales or discounts you receive is literally meaningless, we already had things like that before in the "old" system. Our position as consumers hasn't improved, in fact it's gotten demonstratively worse as lack of competition (tm) from actual stores selling the same product has vanished:

monopoly-v-competition.png


Also, regarding "throwing ire towards the companies taking these deals," I do that plenty. I've called it a callous, short sighted "fuck you got mine" attitude that screws developers who aren't lucky enough to get into the club. I've typed literally pages worth of posts explaining how it's creating a division in the minds of gamers, using actual examples. Games being rejected from the Epic Games Store invites conversation about what was "wrong" with the game for them to get rejected. I've seen this happen with games with incredibly high review scores and sales on steam who got rejected from the EGS. They have talked about how that actually hurt their bottom line. I have bitched pretty constantly about how Yu Suzuki has poisoned the Kickstarter well, one I was very much planning on dipping from. Everybody who engages in these exclusivity deals deserves scorn, even if not being able to walk away from that amount of money is impossible. However, it is ultimately epic who is the most at fault, it's their policy. They don't NEED exclusivity. I buy from lots of stores beyond steam. If they competed in ways that actually benefited the consumer, they'd come. Epic isn't some startup in a 4 bedroom house trying to compete with the big boys, they ARE the big boys. Virtually every game on the market uses their engine, they own fortnite, they're one of the biggest, most powerful companies on the planet. How about competing the usual way? Spreading the word on your client, advertising, really great deals for users, instead of throwing around money so that other stores can't even begin to compete? The cycle people try to point to when they claim "competition is good" would actually occur if Epic was actually competing with the other stores instead of just buying exclusivity.

Regarding hating Epic, you'll find much of the PC community "loved" Tim Sweeney when he argued against the Microsoft Windows Store. It wasn't the person they loved, it was the message. Once Epic adopted the same type of mentality the Microsoft Windows Store adopted, the ire went towards the person they used to "love". It's not a hatred of any company, it's this practice people dislike. And it's pretty constant and consistent, no need to try and paint it as some sort of double standard.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,285
Oh I wouldn't want any kind of attack or anything, but like, maybe trying to compete a little? Ramp up in house game production for more exclusives? Put in any apparent effort whatsoever?

I realize Epic can't fund exclusives indefinitely, but it's gotta have an impact on Steam if they keep losing nearly every mid-sized (along with some AAAs) game that's announced.

I'm not against the EGS, but my ideal outcome would be Valve being snapped out of complacency and being forced to take EGS seriously.

Either you buy all these exclusives (which is horrible for everyone), or there is nothing to be done. There isn't a studio in the world that can develop a ton of exclusives. An AAAA game has a dev team of like 1000 people. The entire Valve company is around 300. Expanding to a couple thousand so they can release a massive game every 2 - 3 years isn't going to do anything in this scenario.

It's just an absurd proposition you're asking for. Because Epic isn't doing shit. You want Valve to do something that Epic isn't doing (or anyone else in the world). Epic has produced one notable game in the last decade. Big. fucking. whoop. This is purely about buying exclusives. And Valve joining this stupidity means we all lose.

Epic should start spending some of their Fortnight money on building a platform that doesn't suck. Then we could have some real competition. I realize that would cost actual money and mean they invested their royalties into the platform, but hey, you're supposed to be able to do a lot with 12 percent. So start doing something, Epic.
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,905
This will probably sound very wrong here, but I'll quote a friend of mine who worked on games like Mortal Kombat and NBA Jam who has been a game developer for many, many years: "A million dollars isn't a lot of money for a product like people think it is."
You're friends with Mark Turmell?
Edit: Probably not, but definitely someone from Midway. Very cool.
 
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morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,052
I mean, after Shenmue 3 there is nothing more Tim Sweeney can do to me.

I'm unsure if his goal was to create a customer or an angry husk of a man that would just silently stare with steely eyes as his office burned down outside normal work hours, hand grasping a cellphone -- a clamshell-style for the ultimate dramatic and satisfying hard close with a 9 and a 1 displayed on the illuminated blue screen -- and a smirk slowly stretching out from either cheek, washing over his face like the afternoon tide across a marsh.

But here we are.
 

Fishsnot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
Japan
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory false equivalence
Well Epic is getting my money here. Tetris Effect is too damn good to skip out on over launcher shittyness.
I'm afraid you are part of the problem then.
Don't you have any standards? You really don't care that buying this is supporting everything that is wrong with PC gaming?
I want this game too, as I love Tetris and have been playing it since the 80's but this "bend to my will" nonsense has to stop before it goes out of control.
The more money people spend on that store means the more they can use to lock down upcoming games.
 
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NekoNeko

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
18,536
i love the EGS, it's clean and not cluttered and does exactly what i want (start games).
everytime i boot up steam i get windows 3.11 flashbacks.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Of course the company that has done nothing with VR, buys this as an exclusive.
Epic was good to early VR. They rolled VR support into UE4 back with the DK1, which is one of the major reasons VR took off. VR wouldn't have taken off had both Epic and Unity not picked up support. That you could sit down with a DK1 and download and install an entire VR toolchain from a single packaged installer like UE4 without touching command prompts or configuring json files or anything complex is amazing. Had VR been limited to, like, Source Engine, it wouldn't have had nearly the adoption. It very much mattered that the most widely used engine in the entire industry, and the second most widely used engine in the industry, both rolled support so early and well. By contrast, look at all the other major players in the gaming industry and how long it took them to step into any sort of VR support.

Rather, it's more disappointing that such an early pioneer of VR would do something like this. This isn't VR's first foray with exclusivity, a topic I made a while back: https://www.resetera.com/threads/oculus-quests-curated-store-is-deeply-hurting-vr-developers.112140/

Thing is, Tim Sweeney has made the exact points regarding the need for VR titles to spread quickly to prop up the nacient industry that I point out in that thread, which is why it is doubly sad to watch this. But to say Epic had nothing to do with VR is not right. The current VR concept had one of the sleekest, smoothest roll outs of any technology I've seen regarding the SDKs. And again, that's largely because the industry leading technologies stepped up and very quickly and loudly put their support behind it.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Oh I wouldn't want any kind of attack or anything, but like, maybe trying to compete a little? Ramp up in house game production for more exclusives? Put in any apparent effort whatsoever?

I realize Epic can't fund exclusives indefinitely, but it's gotta have an impact on Steam if they keep losing nearly every mid-sized (along with some AAAs) game that's announced.

I'm not against the EGS, but my ideal outcome would be Valve being snapped out of complacency and being forced to take EGS seriously.
Valve's latest Steam exclusive* game is directly competing with an EGS exclusive*.

*on PC
 

Clowns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,886
I'm afraid you are part of the problem then.
Don't you have any standards? You really don't care that buying this is supporting everything that is wrong with PC gaming?
I want this game too, as I love Tetris and have been playing it since the 80's but this "bend to my will" nonsense has to stop before it goes out of control.
The more money people spend on that store means the more they can use to lock down upcoming games.
This is the PC equivalent of Trumps "building a wall" bullshit! I wouldn't fund that shit and recommend that none of you do either.
Nope. Not remotely.
 

ChrisD

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,623
It's absolutely amazing on the PSVR, can only imagine what it'd look like on the higher end VRs running on a much stronger box.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
6,001
There is no such thing as a "vive exclusive," what I quoted explains why. exclusivity is precisely what SteamVR is an attempt to squash. Valve outright doesn't believe in exclusivity. All their VR software works with the Rift, Windows VR headsets, even stuff like VR tunneling software to cardboard. That's the point of SteamVR, to prevent exclusivity. Which is why it's so gross to see Epic use it precisely because using the alternative, the Rift Runtime drivers, is impossible due to exclusivity.



They do, except as outright grants, not sales advances. Valve spends tons of money funding technologies that everyone, including epic, uses. Stuff like SDL2, dx2vk, Vulkan, renderdoc, etc. Valve funds these things without any requirement of ownership. Those are NOT valve products, they don't own them at all. But they are all primiarily, sometimes even solely funded by Valve.

Are there any good places to read more about all this funding and behind-the-scenes work Valve does for PC gaming? It seems like even quite a few typical pc news outlets spam the idea that Valve doesn't do anything.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,993
Somewhere.

luca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,562
This so the GOAT game I've been waiting for. Nowadays I only ever play Tetris. And this is the one I really wanna try out!
 

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,231
South East Asia
Beautiful game. It's going to look insane on a beastly rigs.

Shame about the one-year exclusivity. I'll consider picking this up when it's dirt cheap a few years down the road.
 

Zeouter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
Ireland
So start doing something, Epic.

Trello

Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.

Epic are doing plenty.
And finally are a big player fighting the 70/30 split.
Do they need to do more? Sure, who doesn't?
It's not like Valve couldn't take a lot of the wind out of Epic's argument and position if they addressed the split.
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,978

Trello

Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.

Epic are doing plenty.
And finally are a big player fighting the 70/30 split.
Do they need to do more? Sure, who doesn't?
It's not like Valve couldn't take a lot of the wind out of Epic's argument and position if they addressed the split.
If the split was enough, Epic wouldn't need to moneyhat timed exclusives.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,706
USA USA USA

Trello

Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.

Epic are doing plenty.
And finally are a big player fighting the 70/30 split.
Do they need to do more? Sure, who doesn't?
It's not like Valve couldn't take a lot of the wind out of Epic's argument and position if they addressed the split.
i honestly can't tell if this is a joke or not

like posting the trello board as evidence they're doing something in a timely manner
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,916

Trello

Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.

Epic are doing plenty.
And finally are a big player fighting the 70/30 split.
Do they need to do more? Sure, who doesn't?
It's not like Valve couldn't take a lot of the wind out of Epic's argument and position if they addressed the split.
If this is a joke: Well, you got me.

It not, then yikes. I'm not sure bringing up their Trello is such a hot idea, considering it includes basic features that they have pushed back month after month now.

And yet again, there have been plenty of other stores that have provided better cuts than Epic including Discord, Itch.io, and even Valve in many cases.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I'm afraid you are part of the problem then.
Don't you have any standards? You really don't care that buying this is supporting everything that is wrong with PC gaming?
I want this game too, as I love Tetris and have been playing it since the 80's but this "bend to my will" nonsense has to stop before it goes out of control.
The more money people spend on that store means the more they can use to lock down upcoming games.

Not even going to bother quoting your last line. it's totally ridiculous.

As for this 'nonsense'. Well I'm afraid that boat has sailed many decades ago when console companies realized software can be used as leverage with third party to entice you to but their hardware. As far as I know the PC is an open market that can also use software as leverage to get you to use their store instead of hardware in this case. So instead of getting consumers into their ecosystem through hardware they are now doing it through storefronts because at the end of the day there is one common theme among all of this. Money!
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,078
i love the EGS, it's clean and not cluttered and does exactly what i want (start games).
everytime i boot up steam i get windows 3.11 flashbacks.
Once you have more than a few games on the client (I've picked up all the free ones) navigating the library is a chore due to the huge icons you can't resize, and lack of view/sort/search options.
The client is also really slow and a big CPU hog if you aren't running it on a fast PC. Running it inside a VM to download games is excruciatingly slow -taking >30 seconds to do anything, with the CPU stuck at 100%- while none of the other clients have that problem.

See their last game, which came to PC without Epic's money.
store.steampowered.com

Rez Infinite on Steam

The legendary action-shooter finally comes to PC, and in style! Blast your way through mind-melting visuals and amazing beats, all in your quest through cyberspace to save a world on the verge of collapse. Playable on your desktop or in fully immersive VR.
Oh, they're the same company that released Rez Infinite on PC?
Maybe they can use that money to finally patch the game and fix the problems it has with audio, mouse support, and frame rate! (never going to happen…)
 
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Red Devil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
824
But if the split is what mattered most then developers wouldn't need paid exclusives...
EGS is still in its first year so it makes sense Epic wants to pay the devs in advance, thereby bearing their risk. I think Epic's plan is that once the store becomes big enough, the split will become much more attractive merit than it is now, and hopefully by then Epic won't rely on paid exclusives any more.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,149
Oh I wouldn't want any kind of attack or anything, but like, maybe trying to compete a little? Ramp up in house game production for more exclusives? Put in any apparent effort whatsoever?
Can you put into your own words what Epic's in house game production is versus Valve's is right now? I can't fathom how a smaller number of titles is spun into sounding like more than a larger amount of titles.