Terms like sad dad, oscar/gotybait, walking sim, etc used to describe certain games, especially Sony

[Charamiwa]

None of the main GOTY winners last year were similar, at all.
Just see the Goty Tracker( https://www.gameawards.net) Top 8:
TLOU2, Hades, Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Doom Eternal and Half Life Alyx.
This whole ''You need to fit specific requirements to win a GOTY'' thing simply isn't reality, even if you followed TGA only it wouldn't be the case(The only ''sad dad'' games in this decade that won were GOW and TLOU2).

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If you follow "the big winner" of Gotypicks every year, it's been a third person action game since... how long exactly? Now I know what you might say, BotW and Uncharted don't have much in common, but still, they have more in common than with say a strategy game. If you're not a third person action game, you ain't winning the majority of GotYs. Even just at the TGA the only recent exception was Overwatch (still an action game though). If there is something as a GotYbait, it's the genre. It doesn't hurt to be story driven too, the only recent exception there being BotW. There's definitely a type.

 

[Kemono]

Yeah this is the big one for me. I really don't understand why people can't let negative comments towards a company they like slide off their backs

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Won't somebody please think of the users who want to post negative comments.

Yeah, totally their fault and not the users who're flinging shit.

Just because i'm not a big fan of Gran Turismo i 'm not over here trying to get zingers in against the developers.

You do know many developers post here on Era? There's an effort to make this side different from other places on the net. Especially in terms of negativity.

If some people can't help themselves maybe they should go to youtube or reddit to get their negativity out.

 

[Deleted member 51789]

I think it's simple, people vote for games they played. And some genres just aren't as popular as others.

Disco Elysium was my GOTY 2019 and it won best RPG, but it wasn't nominated for GOTY probably because more people played Outer Worlds, who lost to DE at "Best RPG" category.

Just see Among Us, it won some prizes 2 years after release because that's when people played it.

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Popularity is one aspect but it's also a lot harder for one person (even people whose job it is to cover games) to have played a lot of qualifying games just due to length, and means they might not play them at all or wait a few years.

It wouldn't happen, and don't know if it would change too much but I've recently been of the idea that Goty voting for a particular year shouldn't really be done until 2-3 years down the line due to that factor.

 

[Nanashrew]

Walking sim is an odd one because that was used mainly to hate on indies in the early 2010's and not big budget titles. A very negative term and widely used. They were even called "streamer bait". Now they're a normal genre with a variety of subgenres that people enjoy.

 

[Nestunt]

What makes games like The Last of Us, Uncharted and God of War really great is the fact that they are exceptions in the gaming realm.

They don't make you decide if you play a game for the story or the gameplay.

 

[Wackamole]

People identify with products and brands they buy. It's kinda sad but it's a thing.
It works two ways: They insult other brands (to feel good about themselves) and they can't take jokes about the brands they buy themselves.

 

[DongBeetle]

Won't somebody please think of the users who want to post negative comments.

Yeah, totally their fault and not the users who're flinging shit.

Just because i'm not a big fan of Gran Turismo i 'm not over here trying to get zingers in against the developers.

You do know many developers post here on Era? There's an effort to make this side different from other places on the net. Especially in terms of negativity.

If some people can't help themselves maybe they should go to youtube or reddit to get their negativity out.

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Hahaha so to make ResetEra different from other places we should uh ban negative comments on video games? What?

If you don't like it you can always hide posts but yeah criticism is essential in game discourse :)

 

[Linus815]

These aren't widely used terms. And sad dad wasn't even particularly aimed at sony games, just a general trend and it originates from around 2013. Walking Dead S1, Bioshock Infinite, TLOU all came out relatively close to eachother. And those were games with heavy narrative focus that got a lot of attention, so.... yes, "sad dad" was a pretty apt way to describe it.

As for GOTYbait... sure, this term carries a negative connotation. And yes, this isn't a popular term either. I view it as a reaction to the obsession this place carries for deeming things "best of the best" constantly. There always has to be a competition between games, even when they're wildly different. GOTY picks tend to follow certain trends and it's crystal clear looking at the past 10 or so winners that narrative heavy, high budget games are generally favoured. A game like Forza Horizon for example simply doesn't have the chance to win GOTY. It'll win specific sub categories, sure,, but a vast majority of critics will continue acting like it's a lesser game than cinematic third person games because... I guess it doesn't have combat and a dramatic story?

I'm not a fan of umbrella terms like these but with how infrequently they are used, I think the games will be OK, given that these terms mostly apply to superproductions with tens of millions of sales anyway.

 

[Angie]

Kiddy games is another term that it really annoys me Often people use it to describe any game with non realistic graphics, and to try and devalue the games.

 

[Deleted member 51789]

I dislike the slang terms and they're almost always used pejoratively, but I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about the concepts they're meant to describe as there are trends.

In regards to the specific call out of people using those terms for Sony games, it's certainly something I've seen. Though specifically for walking sim, I've only seen that used for one Sony game (Death Stranding) and while it may not be used flatteringly, I don't feel that's an entirely unfair description considering the actual mechanics of the game. Far closer to one than other titles that have been given that tag.

 

[DongBeetle]

Yea, but the thing is...at least with Sony games, they all happen to be games that are just really wanted to be made by the different teams. GoW 2018 was something Cory wanted to come back to due to himself becoming a dad, but also wanted a change in playstyle.
Bend for a long time wanted to make an open world game set in Oregon, well because Bend. Horizon was also a game that was something a long time in the works as a pivot from Killzone, plus having a female protagonist, which almost wasn't allowed. Ghost of Tsushima maybe could be the one argued as "just making another open world game", but even then, they had Feudal Japan along two other choices that they really wanted to try for a historical game.

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Why do you only talk about Sony games? It really just feels like a veiled "why do people criticize Sony games with brainless buzzwords" thread

 

[Dever]

Eh, imo "Sad dad sim" is just a funny observation about some recent trends. Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, God of War and Death Stranding fit into that category probably.

 

[Nanashrew]

These aren't widely used terms. And sad dad wasn't even particularly aimed at sony games, just a general trend and it originates from around 2013. Walking Dead S1, Bioshock Infinite, TLOU all came out relatively close to eachother. And those were games with heavy narrative focus that got a lot of attention, so.... yes, "sad dad" was a pretty apt way to describe it.

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On this particular part, it also had a lot to do with many veteran devs becoming fathers around this time so it was natural to also see a lot of games with narrative focus around a father and son or father and daughter. I remember topics around 2015 or so wondering if we'd ever see any mother and son or mother and daughter focused games, and that just wasn't going to happen because there aren't any women in a powerful enough position to make that happen. I don't believe it has happened yet either outside of indies.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

The most funny thing to me is that for some people being a story focused game somehow means that the gameplay isn't good.

Like I see all those posts about TLOU Part 2 trying to be a movie or that they want to play real games and I'm left puzzled since Part 2 is one of the finest 3rd person shooter in terms of mechanics and level design.

 

[Rosebud]

On this particular part, it also had a lot to do with many veteran devs becoming fathers around this time so it was natural to also see a lot of games with narrative focus around a father and son or father and daughter. I remember topics around 2015 or so wondering if we'd ever see any mother and son or mother and daughter focused games, and that just wasn't going to happen because there aren't any women in a powerful enough position to make that happen. I don't believe it has happened yet either outside of indies.

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Life is Strange has a "sad mom" I guess.

Wish it was more common too.

The most funny thing to me is that for some people being a story focused game somehow means that the gameplay isn't good.

Like I see all those posts about TLOU Part 2 trying to be a movie or that they want to play real games and I'm left puzzled since Part 2 is one of the finest 3rd person shooter in terms of mechanics and level design.

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At least you know they didn't played it lol

I wasn't a fan of TLOU I gameplay, but II plays like a dream.

 

[Aarglefarg]

I'll be honest, I've used Sad Dad as shorthand before. It is a kinda funny name with a ring to it, but it is definitely not all-encompassing. I mean, TLOU has a sad dad, but so does Halo Infinite as I joked on XboxEra the other day, so it doesn't quite work. Then you get into "Third Person Slow Walk and Talk Sad Dad Third Person Over The Shoulder Forest Walking Sim Third Person Shooters" as I've seen it dubbed which doesn't have the same ring and can be at times reductive, although it is more often than not said in a satirical matter like "dudebro shooty bang bang" for Xbox.

As for GOTY bait, I will defend that designation. Here are the GOTY Picks Winners from 2011 to 2020

2011 - Skyrim

2012 - Telltale's Walking Dead

2013 - TLOU

2014 - Dragon Age Inquisition

2015 - Witcher 3

2016 - Uncharted 4

2017 - Breath of the Wild

2018 - God of War

2019 - Death Stranding

2020 - TLOU Part II

3 RPGs, 1 Graphic Adventure, 6 Third-Person Action Adventure.


And here's the GOTY consensus winners from 2003-2010 + the DICE Awards for 2001 and 2002

2001 - Halo CE

2002 - Battlefield 1942

2003 - KOTOR

2004 - Half Life 2

2005 - Resident Evil 4

2006 - Oblivion

2007 - Bioshock

2008 - Fallout 3

2009 - Uncharted 2

2010 - Red Dead Redemption.

4 FPS Games, 3 RPGS, 1 Horror Game, 2 Third Person Action Adventure.

There was more variety beforehand, whereas now one genre holds a strangehold on the GOTY awards. Hell, it swept the last 5 years. Before people go on about polish or whatever, Overwatch, MSFS, Ori, Hades, Celeste, Mario Odyssey, Doom Eternal, Wolfenstein 2, Dreams, Forza Horizon 4, etc. So many great games go without winning. Several go without nomination in favour of more audience friendly choices (just look at 2019 where games like Disco Elysium, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Apex Legends and Luigi's Mansion 3 went unnominated in favour of worse reviewed games like Control and Death Stranding (which in fairness did win Consensus GOTY).

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If BOTW and TLOU2 are considered the same genre as each other, or God of War the same genre as Death Stranding, then the grouping is too broad to be meaningful. And as a side note, Resident Evil 4 should also be counted as a third person action adventure if all four of those are.

 

[DongBeetle]

I think of this particular discussion the way I do that one about "Nintendo fans and anime": Who cares what other people think of something I like, as long as it gets to continue being the thing I like? Yeah sad dad oscar bait games bore the shit out of me so I avoid them like the plague and sometimes make allegedly funny posts about them to an audience receptive to that joke.

It's at best a minor part of the discourse surrounding these games that have sold millions upon millions and received mass critical acclaim and not worth worrying about for anyone who actually gives a damn about the games they love.

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Yep. Nobody should worry about this and nobody on earth should be concerned about what negative comments someone online makes about a multimillion dollar corporation. They're not your friends, they don't need you defending them. Let the negative comments flow down your back and maybe try to explain tot he person why they're wrong? We definitely have a culture of corporate cheer leading and hopefully i'ts something that becomes less common as the gen progresses

 

[TechnicPuppet]

It's more of a developer pedigree than a genre. Many think that Naughty Dog are working on a new IP right now. We have no idea what it'll be. But it's pretty safe to say that whenever it comes out it'll be a GotY contender.

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Nonsense thats ridiculous. Martin Scorsese is making a new movie, movie of the year contender definitely. Have you seen it? No he's only just started on it but it's Martin Scorsese and he has a lot of money and he's using the same actors and there will be a lot of motion capture and it's about a theme everyone likes.

This would not happen in any other media it speaks to the immaturity of games journalism and people who play games. It's utterly cringeworthy.

 

[ClickyCal']

Why do you only talk about Sony games? It really just feels like a veiled "why do people criticize Sony games with brainless buzzwords" thread

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Because I don't really know the backgrounds as much for some other games. I was just telling them that Sony isn't going into force these types of games to be made.

 

[DongBeetle]

Because I don't really know the backgrounds as much for some other games. I was just telling them that Sony isn't going into force these types of games to be made.

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I think if there's anyone responsible for how homogenized the current lineup is, it's Sony directly. Like how the closing of Japan studio was Sony's fault. There is a lot of validity to that criticism

 

[Rosebud]

Nonsense thats ridiculous. Martin Scorsese is making a new movie, movie of the year contender definitely. Have you seen it? No he's only just started on it but it's Martin Scorsese and he has a lot of money and he's using the same actors and there will be a lot of motion capture and it's about a theme everyone likes.

This would not happen in any other media it speaks to the immaturity of games journalism and people who play games. It's utterly cringeworthy.

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Except this happens, people who follow the Oscars knows exactly the kind of movie that will be nominated each year.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Nonsense thats ridiculous. Martin Scorsese is making a new movie, movie of the year contender definitely. Have you seen it? No he's only just started on it but it's Martin Scorsese and he has a lot of money and he's using the same actors and there will be a lot of motion capture and it's about a theme everyone likes.

This would not happen in any other media it speaks to the immaturity of games journalism and people who play games. It's utterly cringeworthy.

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That's definitely not true, it's the same in any and every medium.

 

[Psamtik]

A lot of high-budget, prestige games include sections in which you slowly walk-and-talk, or hold forward on the analog stick while cool things happen around you. That's just the nature of AAA storytelling, and it was a conscious, nearly industry-wide shift away from the old reliance on cutscenes.

As for "sad dad", it's just that a number of (male) game directors hit a certain age, became parents, and wanted to make games about fatherhood.

 

[ClickyCal']

I think if there's anyone responsible for how homogenized the current lineup is, it's Sony directly

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It's not though. That's exactly what I was saying in that post. It just happens to be these games that the different teams wanted to make.

 

[Phendrana]

I recall Xbox being painted as the 'dudebro games' console during the early 360 generation too.

It's just salt directed at whoever's in front at that point in time.

 

[DongBeetle]

It's not though. That's exactly what I was saying in that post. It just happens to be these games that the different teams wanted to make.

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Right but the fact that they dont have very much spread currently IS a testament to which studios they fund and which ones they let die off. And likely in the beginning phases of certain projects that we never hear about

 

[TechnicPuppet]

That's definitely not true, it's the same in any and every medium.

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It really isn't. What will win the Oscar for best movie in 2023? Best book? Best album? You should already know this. I know that God of War as long it makes 2022 will win Goty with many if not most games publications.

So if I know that ,do you not maybe imagine publishers know the formula as well and plan game accordingly? Don't be so naïve.

 

[Redcrayon]

If BOTW and TLOU2 are considered the same genre as each other, or God of War the same genre as Death Stranding, then the grouping is too broad to be meaningful. And as a side note, Resident Evil 4 should also be counted as a third person action adventure if all four of those are.

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One trend that is visible there is that the critically acclaimed games struggle to get out of sci-fi/fantasy. Out of the last 20 GOTY winners, 16 are sci-fi/fantasy, there's at least half a dozen different flavours of zombie and three of the remaining ones (Uncharted and Red Dead) toy with referencing the undead in at least one game in their series too.

 

[ClickyCal']

Right but the fact that they dont have very much spread currently IS a testament to which studios they fund and which ones they let die off. And likely in the beginning phases of certain projects that we never hear about

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Okay, well that's getting into a completely different conversation. But if we are being honest, look at GG and Bend before Horizon and Days Gone. GG made some shooters that were just not seen highly, not liked a lot, and didn't sell good. Going to a completely new genre and ip was both risky, but also necessary. Bend was also very possibly on the chopping blocks leading up to Days Gone, and they used their maybe last strike on a passion project. So things could be a lot worse.

 

[Peek-a-boo!]

I know that God of War as long it makes 2022 will win GotY with many if not most games publications.

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And if God of War Ragnarök ends up being as good as the one before, then what's your problem with this?

 

[Rosebud]

It really isn't. What will win the Oscar for best movie in 2023? Best book? Best album? You should already know this. I know that God of War as long it makes 2022 will win Goty with many if not most games publications.

So if I know that ,do you not maybe imagine publishers know the formula as well and plan game accordingly? Don't be so naïve.

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Oscar 2023 will be given to a drama/art movie, everyone knows that.

The difference is that we don't know what movies are coming out in 2023 to make guesses.

 

[DongBeetle]

Nonsense thats ridiculous. Martin Scorsese is making a new movie, movie of the year contender definitely. Have you seen it? No he's only just started on it but it's Martin Scorsese and he has a lot of money and he's using the same actors and there will be a lot of motion capture and it's about a theme everyone likes.

This would not happen in any other media it speaks to the immaturity of games journalism and people who play games. It's utterly cringeworthy.

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Yep. The corporate fanaticism present in gaming goes pretty deep. It's like if idk Disney's slate of movies swept the Oscars every year and people cheered it on. It's kind of evidence that games are still seen primarily as a product and not an art form, even by the people who play them

 

[Rosebud]

Yep. The corporate fanaticism present in gaming goes pretty deep. It's like if idk Disney's slate of movies swept the Oscars every year and people cheered it on. It's kind of evidence that games are still seen primarily as a product and not an art form, even by the people who play them

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Everyone celebrated when Disney bought Fox because it meant X-Men on MCU.

 

[DongBeetle]

Okay, well that's getting into a completely different conversation. But if we are being honest, look at GG and Bend before Horizon and Days Gone. GG made some shooters that were just not seen highly, not liked a lot, and didn't sell good. Going to a completely new genre and ip was both risky, but also necessary. Bend was also very possibly on the chopping blocks leading up to Days Gone, and they used their maybe last strike on a passion project. So things could be a lot worse.

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They went from the most popular genre at that time to the most popular genre in the world right now to create a new IP. Bend made a survival zombie game as their "passion project". I'm not saying these aren't quality games but do you start to see where the criticism comes from?

 

[ClickyCal']

They went from the most popular genre at that time to the most popular genre in the world right now to create a new IP. Bend made a survival zombie game as their "passion project". I'm not saying these aren't quality games but do you start to see where the criticism comes from?

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Well yea, if it comes down to just not being happy about the Japan Studio situation, then people could be more up front with it and that's fine.

 

[eXistor]

Just trendy things to say. They'll thankfully go away in due time.

 

[DongBeetle]

Everyone celebrated when Disney bought Fox because it meant X-Men on MCU.

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I'm confused, did this have any bearing on what movies are sweeping awards? Will it when those characters are finally in the MCU? No? Ifs gonna be like how things are now where Superhero movies don't win prestigious awards? Righr

 

[DongBeetle]

Well yea, if it comes down to just not being happy about the Japan studio situation, then people could be more up front with it and that's fine.

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I think people see it as a symbolic thing. Sony really hasn't innovated past these handful of genres in quite a while and the lack of real oddball creativity is something that's lacking. Closing down a studio that usually breaks the mold in a time where it's needed the most is a bad look

 

[Mass_Pincup]

It really isn't. What will win the Oscar for best movie in 2023? Best book? Best album? You should already know this. I know that God of War as long it makes 2022 will win Goty with many if not most games publications.

So if I know that ,do you not maybe imagine publishers know the formula as well and plan game accordingly? Don't be so naïve.

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The marketing cycle for other medium is much shorter than for a game so we don't currently know what movie will even release in 2023. However the Oscars for exemple have an extremely clear formula for the best picture award, that's why Oscar season is a thing.

 

[Rosebud]

I'm confused, did this have any bearing on what movies are sweeping awards? Will it when those characters are finally in the MCU? No? Ifs gonna be like how things are now where Superhero movies don't win prestigious awards? Righr

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You said "It's kind of evidence that games are still seen primarily as a product and not an art form, even by the people who play them", cheering an acquisition like Fox is seeing a media as a product and not an art form.

And if Disney made Oscar-worthy movies every year, why would people be angry they won?

 

[Terbinator]

Okay, well that's getting into a completely different conversation. But if we are being honest, look at GG and Bend before Horizon and Days Gone. GG made some shooters that were just not seen highly, not liked a lot, and didn't sell good. Going to a completely new genre and ip was both risky, but also necessary. Bend was also very possibly on the chopping blocks leading up to Days Gone, and they used their maybe last strike on a passion project. So things could be a lot worse.

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GG created an open world game with a bow (very much in vogue) where you play as Ygritte from the worlds most watched and hyped TV series. But as you mention the Killzone games were never thought that highly of aside from 2 so the risk wasn't really there.

Sony are going to greenlight projects where the money is.

Likewise DG is another zombie/outbreak backdrop in open world which is pretty much Sons of Anarchy the game.

 

[ClickyCal']

I think people see it as a symbolic thing. Sony really hasn't innovated past these handful of genres in quite a while and the lack of real oddball creativity is something that's lacking. Closing down a studio that usually breaks the mold in a time where it's needed the most is a bad look

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But the thing is that they weren't even breaking the mold. They took ten years to come out with a game that ended up with mixed reactions and not great sales, sandwiched inbetween a couple of Knacks and Gravity Rushes. It's not like they didn't have chances, and they just didn't have the juice they used to.

 

[PianoBlack]

I think it's simple, people vote for games they played. And some genres just aren't as popular as others.

Disco Elysium was my GOTY 2019 and it wasn't nominated for GOTY probably because more people played Outer Worlds, who lost to DE at "Best RPG" category.

Just see Among Us, it won some prizes 2 years after release because that's when people played it. Dreams was robbed.

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Yeah that's part of it too for sure.

 

[pswii60]

Console warriors mostly. It'll be amusing to see them get excited when these games get announced for PC.

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Why would console warriors get excited about PC ports though?

 

[DongBeetle]

You said "It's kind of evidence that games are still seen primarily as a product and not an art form, even by the people who play them", cheering an acquisition like Fox is seeing a media as a product and not an art form.

And if Disney made Oscar-worthy movies every year, why would people be angry they won?

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I didn't see anybody in those threads saying these movies would be the film of the year or the best movie of the year. Yes it is corporate fanaticism but a gamers choice for fav game is much more likely to correlate with their favorite multimillion dollar corporate than a filmgoers fav movie. The state of game criticism right now is if Deadpool was an Oscar sweeper

 

[Ovvv]

I think people see it as a symbolic thing. Sony really hasn't innovated past these handful of genres in quite a while and the lack of real oddball creativity is something that's lacking. Closing down a studio that usually breaks the mold in a time where it's needed the most is a bad look

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Death Stranding is more "oddball creativity" than the AAA space has seen the entire generation. It's not particularly close, either. Definitely wouldn't say they're lacking in that space.

 

[DongBeetle]

But the thing is that they weren't even breaking the mold. They took ten years to come out with a game that ended up with mixed reactions and not great sales, sandwiched inbetween a couple of Knacks and Gravity Rushes. It's not like they didn't have chances, and they just didn't have the juice they used to.

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Who's their owner? Where do you think the juice comes from? Why do you think they worked on those games? Sony is directly responsible. I've never seen a similar situation in which the closed studio was blamed for their owner closing them lmfao

 

[DongBeetle]

Death Stranding is more "oddball creativity" than the AAA space has seen the entire generation. It's not particularly close, either. Definitely wouldn't say they're lacking in that space.

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I love that game but I really struggle to wrap my head around how you seemed to come to the conclusion that one game nullifies all discourse? Really bizarre

 

[Rosebud]

I didn't see anybody in those threads saying these movies would be the film of the year or the best movie of the year. Yes it is corporate fanaticism but a gamers choice for fav game is much more likely to correlate with their favorite multimillion dollar corporate than a filmgoers fav movie. The state of game criticism right now is if Deadpool was an Oscar sweeper

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That's very dismissive, games that win GOTY usually have a great story/writing, gameplay and art.

 

[DongBeetle]

That's very dismissive, games that win GOTY usually have a great story/writing, gameplay and art.

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Sure I'm not saying they're bad products. But neither are superhero movies