Terms like sad dad, oscar/gotybait, walking sim, etc used to describe certain games, especially Sony

[Amibguous Cad]

"Gotybait" is just an adaptation of "oscarbait," and is useful for similar reasons. In order to get serious consideration for the Oscars or for Game of the Year, you have to fall into a pretty narrow template of game spanning a few genres at most with precisely the right amount of production values, more often than not done by the same studios. It makes sense to me get you'd want a separate term for the sort of game/movie that meets this criteria.

 

[sacrament]

I think Sad Dad is used to describe games that have sad, offen violent, trauma-plagued characters. The derogatory nature stems from the implication that Game companies create games in this vein becauae they know critics rate this type of story and 3rd person cinematic game very highly.

Whther that seems true or not depends on you and your experience with media in general.

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Makes me want to watch Tropic Thunder.

Point being, there is probably some truth to companies making games to earn awards - just like any/all other entertainment. So what? The awards are meaningless - whether you enjoy them or not is all that matters - "critic" validation is hardly any validation at all.

 

[northnorth]

At least "dudebro" has been dying off in usage.

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Hahhaha. I totally forgot about this term. I've enjoyed the "dudebro" game threads on here the past year. Normal NON "dudebros" def enjoy college football games and golf games. I've loved the discussion. And the absence of people saying that term.

 

[Uzupedro]

It's incredible how the person makes a non aggressive and well thought OP and even so this does not prevents weird hostile responses to pop up.
Like, jesus, how is this bootlicking or whatever.

"Gotybait" is just an adaptation of "oscarbait," and is useful for similar reasons. In order to get serious consideration for the Oscars or for Game of the Year, you have to fall into a pretty narrow template of game spanning a few genres at most with precisely the right amount of production values, more often than not done by the same studios. It makes sense to me get you'd want a separate term for the sort of game/movie that meets this criteria.

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None of the main GOTY winners last year were similar, at all.
Just see the Goty Tracker( https://www.gameawards.net) Top 8:
TLOU2, Hades, Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Doom Eternal and Half Life Alyx.
This whole ''You need to fit specific requirements to win a GOTY'' thing simply isn't reality, even if you followed TGA only it wouldn't be the case(The only ''sad dad'' games in this decade that won were GOW and TLOU2).

 

[E.T.]

People who use these terms probably would enjoy them and defend them if they were available on their console/platform of choice. Seeing as they are not, you get a lot of hate directed toward award winning games that are actually quite different from one another.

Console warriors are a special breed.

I would not even bother engaging people like that, you always end up losing even if you win the argument.

"Some don't even know they are console warriors." - Kid from the sixth sense

 

[sredgrin]

It's incredible how the person makes a non aggressive and well thought OP and even so this does not prevents weird hostile responses to pop up.
Like, jesus, how is this bootlicking or whatever.


None of the main GOTY winners last year were similar, at all.
Just see the Goty Tracker( https://www.gameawards.net) Top 8:
TLOU2, Hades, Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Doom Eternal and Half Life Alyx.
This whole ''You need to fit specific requirements to win a GOTY'' thing simply isn't reality, even if you followed TGA only it wouldn't be the case(The only ''sad dad'' games in this decade that won were GOW and TLOU2).

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Geralt is a total sad dad too.

 

[TrueSloth]

I've been using the term "Sad Dad" to describe games like Heavy Rain, TLoU and GoW for years. Get on my level, scrubs.
That being said, I wasn't really being critical of the trope, it was more a laugh at the trend of gaming plots about sad dads. I suspect because most developers at the time were becoming dads themselves and wanted to create a serious cinematic gaming experience about fatherhood.
Hades is kind of a sad dad game too. But from the perspective of his son.

 

[Forkball]

Yoshi's Island was the first sad dad game.

There are really only two Sony sad dad games, but you could argue that's too many, hence the ridicule. GoTY bait is a bit nebulous since there's no award on the level of the Oscars (sorry Geoff) in the gaming sphere. But if you look at what wins the most awards each year, it's typically third-person story-driven action games, which Sony has a lot of. Sony makes these games to bring in the big bucks though, not to win awards.

 

[CabooseMSG]

Makes me want to watch Tropic Thunder.

Point being, there is probably some truth to companies making games to earn awards - just like any/all other entertainment. So what? The awards are meaningless - whether you enjoy them or not is all that matters - "critic" validation is hardly any validation at all.

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Totally, i agree completely. Some people wont care that some games were tailor-made to impress judges, and others will find that knowledge ruinous to their enjoyment or some type of sacrilege.

Sure, some games definitely tick boxes to impress critics and judges at the expensw of originality and invention, but that is in no way true for every game. More importantly your enjoyment of these games (or lack thereof) doesn't invalidate someone else's

 

[ClickyCal']

I also would say that even outside just related to specifically defending criticism and that kind of stuff, it's also just beneficial in turn.
Like an example that isn't even Sony, I saw tons of people say that Splatoon looked like a silly kiddy game and they ignored it completely. Then way later played it or the second game and loved it, and regretted ignoring it before from being deductive. I feel like getting into the habit of downplaying a lot of types of games could then hurt them missing out on something you might like.
It won't always happen, but it could.

 

[Cheesebu]

As you can probably tell from the hostility that your completely benign and respectful OP conjured, it's mostly console war stuff.

Only one first party studio is putting out a ton of award winning AAA games so people who miss out for whatever reason get salty about it.

It's the same as dismissing all Nintendo games as kiddy. Just childish behavior from undeveloped manchildren.

 

[Fabs]

I don't think it means a sad father per se. Just that games that get nominated for awards nowadays feature a narrative that involves a character reeling from trauma a lot of times involving the loss of a love one. It's a troupe in a lot of media but as narratives continue to be something the people that make picks for GOTY value it's kind of a bummer seeing so many games use the same troupe. I enjoyed the first season of the Walking Dead but every narrative after that has been also ran IMO.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

It's incredible how the person makes a non aggressive and well thought OP and even so this does not prevents weird hostile responses to pop up.
Like, jesus, how is this bootlicking or whatever.


None of the main GOTY winners last year were similar, at all.
Just see the Goty Tracker( https://www.gameawards.net) Top 8:
TLOU2, Hades, Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Doom Eternal and Half Life Alyx.
This whole ''You need to fit specific requirements to win a GOTY'' thing simply isn't reality, even if you followed TGA only it wouldn't be the case(The only ''sad dad'' games in this decade that won were GOW and TLOU2).

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Do you not see a pattern in that list?

 

[nib95]

"Gotybait" is just an adaptation of "oscarbait," and is useful for similar reasons. In order to get serious consideration for the Oscars or for Game of the Year, you have to fall into a pretty narrow template of game spanning a few genres at most with precisely the right amount of production values, more often than not done by the same studios. It makes sense to me get you'd want a separate term for the sort of game/movie that meets this criteria.

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It's not really a narrow category, it's just that gamers in general (not just critics) tend to prefer games that go beyond meagre mechanical expertise, and instead actually also move them on an emotional level, be that with memorable characters, dialogue, stories and so on.

Ultimately games that are fun/engaging to play, whilst also simultaneously being emotionally stirring or powerful, are more likely to leave a mark or impression. This isn't exactly a recent thing either, games like Monkey Island, Deus Ex, Final Fantasy VI/VII, Half Life/Half Life 2, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, Metal Gear Solid/2, Grim Fandango, Chrono Cross etc were championed partly for this (eg their evocative stories, characters, worlds etc) despite belonging to very different genres.

Likewise with Hades picking up the second highest number of awards last year, despite being so different to TLOU2. Its story, characters and world making that added difference.

In that sense, there's really nothing "gotybait" about it, unless you call wanting to make a great game whilst simultaneously telling a great story, characters, worlds etc, "gotybait", when really it's simply the intention of a majority of game designers out there, with greatly varying levels of success in execution.

Ultimately, it's just that those other things outside of mechanics, are also deeply meaningful in games, and can and often do make games that much more impactful and memorable.

 

[PianoBlack]

Lol. Amazing thread. Also I'd imagine Nate is now an honorary sad dad after UC4, true he wasn't a dad at the same time he was sad, but close enough.

 

[cakely]

I've also seen "Oscar bait" used here but, yeah, that made no sense either.

 

[Decarb]

'Risk-averse" is the new term, you gotta keep up OP.

 

[gitrektali]

I like Sony games, and I don't think these are that different from other AAA titles. Sony games might be more cinematic, but all of those have the same crafting, skill points, open/semi-open world, and third-person shooting/combat. I would love to see bigger studios make smaller riskier titles, but I know the execs won't let that happen. Props to Insomniac for making smaller titles over the years though. I enjoy these well enough and thought TLOU 2 was pretty good but I don't think most of these titles are really special or innovative. Having access to better tech, voice actors, and all that isn't pushing the industry forward, and I don't think AAA has done that in a while anyway.

Edit: Oh, and these terms are stupid
Edit 2: I also don't think Sony games are a victim to these terms. Walking Sim was thrown around at a whole lot of indie titles like Virginia. We had a thread recently about indie games where posters said these titles can't tell stories effectively (ffs). Anything retro FPS is put under "boomer shooter" despite bringing so much to the genre.

 

[Alpheus]

Just waiting on my new Wipeout, especially one that isn't a remake of a remake of a remake, Gravity Rush, Ape Escape, Siren, etc kind of games. And my monster hunter clones. Sony's current crop of games are fine for those who enjoy them. The only first party game I can think that I might be buying on PS5 is probably Gran Turismo 7.

Outside of that I enjoy sad dad kind of games, and love walking simulators. I just don't find much of Sony's first party output first party output appealing.

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This is p much where I'm at.

Also I figured people would be tired of Sad Dad games given how often that term is thrown about but yea, only a few games really fit that criteria as was mentioned in the thread it's become a catch-all term to use to meme about something.

 

[SuperBoss]

Salt

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Think first post nails it again here. People are bothered by the praise and adoration certain games receive so they resort to grossly reductive statements of the games in order to cope.

 

[Theanine]

Sad dad is a hilarious term, and very accurate.

 

[E.T.]

If The Last of Us was a Xbox exclusive
If God Of War was a Nintendo exclusive

I am certain the bashing would subside.

 

[julia crawford]

All I really want is sad moms

And happy moms, just moms in general

 

[Keldroc]

Do you not see a pattern in that list?

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I don't, no.

It's also telling that the justification for the "sad dad" thing seems to be four games that came out across the span of a fucking decade. Yeah, clearly there's nothing else to play anymore.

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

I dunno, but maybe we could add some 'grandma' or 'hella budget' to it.

 

[MizziPizzi]

People who use these terms probably would enjoy them and defend them if they were available on their console/platform of choice. Seeing as they are not, you get a lot of hate directed toward award winning games that are actually quite different from one another.

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You pretty much nailed it.

 

[Captain of Outer Space]

They feel like dumb terms that people that don't like those kinds of games put on them as their way of putting them down. That's definitely how walking sim started after adventure games started evolving to the Quantic Dream-style of game.

 

[Budi]

We need some mom games first. Where are they? Most of the time, moms are either dead or exist in the background.

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This one had motherhood in rather integral part narratively.

 

[Father Kratos]

So, Trees arent used to describe Sony games any more?

 

[Haze]

Sony does make GOTYbait tho

 

[Saint of Killers]

Some people will piss and moan about anything. It used to be "All games are brown," then it was "Why are they all bald and space marines?" Now they complain about greenery and characters with traumatic pasts.

 

[Cantaim]

Now maybe I'm not too well versed in forum wars. But is walking sim used a lot for Sony games? I've seen the others used in other threads but I can't remember if I've seen walking sim used that much haha.

Spoiler

I actually love games described as walking sims as normally they nice ways to play games where the player isn't hurting anyone. Usually just a nice written story or a fun puzzler. Kinda wish Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo made some too

 

[nekkid]

I'm really not sure why I'm seeing people let these terms get to them.

 

[DeoGame]

I'll be honest, I've used Sad Dad as shorthand before. It is a kinda funny name with a ring to it, but it is definitely not all-encompassing. I mean, TLOU has a sad dad, but so does Halo Infinite as I joked on XboxEra the other day, so it doesn't quite work. Then you get into "Third Person Slow Walk and Talk Sad Dad Third Person Over The Shoulder Forest Walking Sim Third Person Shooters" as I've seen it dubbed which doesn't have the same ring and can be at times reductive, although it is more often than not said in a satirical matter like "dudebro shooty bang bang" for Xbox.

As for GOTY bait, I will defend that designation. Here are the GOTY Picks Winners from 2011 to 2020

2011 - Skyrim

2012 - Telltale's Walking Dead

2013 - TLOU

2014 - Dragon Age Inquisition

2015 - Witcher 3

2016 - Uncharted 4

2017 - Breath of the Wild

2018 - God of War

2019 - Death Stranding

2020 - TLOU Part II

3 RPGs, 1 Graphic Adventure, 6 Third-Person Action Adventure.


And here's the GOTY consensus winners from 2003-2010 + the DICE Awards for 2001 and 2002

2001 - Halo CE

2002 - Battlefield 1942

2003 - KOTOR

2004 - Half Life 2

2005 - Resident Evil 4

2006 - Oblivion

2007 - Bioshock

2008 - Fallout 3

2009 - Uncharted 2

2010 - Red Dead Redemption.

4 FPS Games, 3 RPGS, 1 Horror Game, 2 Third Person Action Adventure.

There was more variety beforehand, whereas now one genre holds a strangehold on the GOTY awards. Hell, it swept the last 5 years. Before people go on about polish or whatever, Overwatch, MSFS, Ori, Hades, Celeste, Mario Odyssey, Doom Eternal, Wolfenstein 2, Dreams, Forza Horizon 4, etc. So many great games go without winning. Several go without nomination in favour of more audience friendly choices (just look at 2019 where games like Disco Elysium, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Apex Legends and Luigi's Mansion 3 went unnominated in favour of worse reviewed games like Control and Death Stranding (which in fairness did win Consensus GOTY).

 

[TechnicPuppet]

I think the terms are fair enough. If there's no such thing as GOTY bait games then why are folk saying games are GoTY nominees before they have seen anything whatsoever from the game?

Why are better reviewed games in certain genres ignored in favour of certain types of games often with certain types of story lines?

 

[IOTS]

The quality of the games is undeniable, so people that dont like them for whatever reason make up negative and inaccurate connotation/terms to justitify their dislike for them. I see the people that throw around those phrases as simply being very salty and thats their way to cope and spread negativity.

All of them are pretty silly but "GOTY/Oscar bait" is the most ridiculous one, because its makes light of the effort that went into the games and as if its so easy to make a GOTY caliber games when so many games fail at being even passable.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think the terms are fair enough. If there's no such thing as GOTY bait games then why are folk saying games are GoTY nominees before they have seen anything whatsoever from the game?

Why are better reviewed games in certain genres ignored in favour of certain types of games often with certain types of story lines?

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It's more of a developer pedigree than a genre. Many think that Naughty Dog are working on a new IP right now. We have no idea what it'll be. But it's pretty safe to say that whenever it comes out it'll be a GotY contender.

 

[Axumar]

People dislike certain games and it's ok. Those games are massive in terms of sales and critical reception. It makes sense that there would be backlash against certain aspects. They also have a lot of thematic, aesthetic, and gameplay similarities. Hence the nicknames. Though I admit walking sim isn't really fair.

It isn't always salt (what does that even mean?) or console wars. It's just the biggest games with biggest coverage getting some due criticism and some trolling thrown in. It happens with other games that do not have those titles.

There are a lot of people out there who do not have the enthusiasm for big AAA releases/tropes. That's perfectly ok.

 

[Rosebud]

People dislike certain games and it's ok. Those games are massive in terms of sales and critical reception. It makes sense that there would be backlash against certain aspects and . They also have a lot of thematic, aesthetic, and gameplay similarities. Hence the nicknames. Though I admit walking sim isn't really fair.

It isn't always salt (what does that even mean?) or console wars. It's just the biggest games with biggest coverage getting some due criticism and some trolling thrown in. It happens with other games that do not have those titles.

There are a lot of people out there who do not have the enthusiasm for big AAA releases/tropes. That's perfectly ok.

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I dislike FPS games, but I don't go in threads about COD to say how they don't deserve the sales, how the dev should make something different or whatever.

I think the terms are fair enough. If there's no such thing as GOTY bait games then why are folk saying games are GoTY nominees before they have seen anything whatsoever from the game?

Why are better reviewed games in certain genres ignored in favour of certain types of games often with certain types of story lines?

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Because of the developer past works. Everyone (including me) was sure Cyberpunk 2077 would sweep the prizes before the release.

 

[wafflebrain]

I think the sad dad is mostly a meme thing and personally find it pretty funny, as someone that enjoys sad dad games :P

Award bait has been a thing surrounding movies a lot longer so its natural its going to extend to games since we're getting a lot more cinematic ones now. It does do a disservice to all the hard work put into the development and script of a game, agreed on that. I don't think its something to get that bothered by though, people will always find some petty label or reductive way to criticize something without actually taking the time to develop an actual critique. Most of the time its just trolling anyway.

 

[Patapuf]

It's more of a developer pedigree than a genre. Many think that Naughty Dog are working on a new IP right now. We have no idea what it'll be. But it's pretty safe to say that whenever it comes out it'll be a GotY contender.

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Nah, there's a particular brand of self-serious cinematic action game that does particularily well at these awards. That's across multiple devs. These games are good but they are of a type.

 

[Axumar]

I dislike FPS games, but I don't go in threads about COD to say how they don't deserve the sales, how the dev should make something different or whatever.

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That's not quite the context of this post though, is it? I see those words thrown around more in other threads or in personal reflection (tweets, posts, etc). If someone is out there going into threads just to hate on things, they aren't really worth engaging with.

 

[Phabh]

No diversity at all

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All I see is violence.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Walking Sim in particular I feel is a good descriptor for certain types of games. I don't personally feel like it has a negative tone anymore, even if it may have started out that way. Now it's just another genre name along the rest. I don't know what recent Sony games someone would refer to when using that discriptor though.

 

[Rosebud]

That's not quite the context of this post though, is it? I see those words thrown around more in other threads or in personal reflection (tweets, posts, etc). If someone is out there going into threads just to hate on things, they aren't really worth engaging with.

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This happens all the time here.

Walking Sim in particular I feel is a good descriptor for certain types of games. I don't personally feel like it has a negative tone anymore, even if it may have started out that way. Now it's just another genre name along the rest. I don't know what recent Sony games someone would refer to when using that discriptor though.

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I love "walking sims", but they are games like Firewatch and Gone Home. Sony big games are all combat heavy.

 

[Ravenwraith]

There are games that are basically guaranteed to get high marks from critics. The critics community tend to intermingle with eachother more than they do general audiences. They also just analyze games under different circumstances than most(A limited window pre release so they can get their reviews out on time for launch day with no real way to account for how the game will hold up under the scrutinty of time.)Not every "awards bait" game is bad, but you can usually call them when you see them.

I tend to notice it most with mechanically light games that don't ask too much at all from the player buthave strong production value elsewhere ie: visuals, story, sound design etc. I would give this designation to Naughty Dog games but it's important to note that they're just the ones on the hot seat now. Before this I would have said the Zelda series. Keep in mind that I grew up on both Zelda and Uncharted and both IPs are very important to me.

Personally speaking though, my favorite game of last year was Streets of Rage 4. That will never be a GOTY contender in any year because it lacks qualities that are inherent to those high production value rollercoaster rides, but unfair or even detrimental to the type of game Streets of Rage 4 is. That's a shame, I think. 2017 was the only time I felt like the best man won and it was by a hair.

 

[PianoBlack]

It's more of a developer pedigree than a genre. Many think that Naughty Dog are working on a new IP right now. We have no idea what it'll be. But it's pretty safe to say that whenever it comes out it'll be a GotY contender.

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Maybe, but consider the opposite point - if they released a racing game, sim, or CRPG it almost certainly wouldn't be considered (at least for mass market awards like TGAs) because those genres are de facto excluded.

That's one reason I prefer organizations like BAFTA, they are willing to give more varied games awards. For example last few years BAFTA GOTY have included Outer Wilds and What Remains of Edith Finch, and they nominated games like Disco Elysium, Return of the Obra Dinn, or Astro Bot. TGAs didnt even nominate any of those games. There's a certain "type" that they are looking for and it's fair to say that most of Sony's high profile titles fall squarely in that type.

(Obviously I'm not saying Sony makes their games with the purpose of choosing a style so they win TGA GOTY, just that there is a category of games there that it makes sense to group together. "GOTY-bait" is a purposefully inflammatory way to refer to them, but it has a real basis.)

There are games that are basically guaranteed to get high marks from critics. The critics community tend to intermingle with eachother more than they do general audiences. They also just analyze games under different circumstances than most(A limited window pre release so they can get their reviews out on time for launch day). Not every "awards bait" game is bad, but you can usually call them when you see them.

I tend to notice it most with mechanically light games that don't ask too much at all from the player buthave strong production value elsewhere ie: visuals, story, sound design etc. I would give this designation to Naughty Dog games but it's important to note that they're just the ones on the hot seat now. Before this I would have said the Zelda series. Keep in mind that I grew up on both Zelda and Uncharted and both IPs are very important to me.

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Yes, this is a good post that I think points to the reasons for the association I'm trying to highlight.

 

[DongBeetle]

The huge studio definitely needs you to defend them from any and all insults.

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Yeah this is the big one for me. I really don't understand why people can't let negative comments towards a company they like slide off their backs

 

[Rosebud]

Maybe, but consider the opposite point - if they released a racing game, sim, or CRPG it almost certainly wouldn't be considered (at least for mass market awards like TGAs) because those genres are de facto excluded.

That's one reason I prefer organizations like BAFTA, they are willing to give more varied games awards. For example last few years BAFTA GOTY have included Outer Wilds and What Remains of Edith Finch, and they nominated games like Disco Elysium, Return of the Obra Dinn, or Astro Bot. TGAs didnt even nominate any of those games. There's a certain "type" that they are looking for and it's fair to say that most of Sony's high profile titles fall squarely in that type.

(Obviously I'm not saying Sony makes their games with the purpose of choosing a style so they win TGA GOTY, just that there is a category of games there that it makes sense to group together. "GOTY-bait" is a purposefully inflammatory way to refer to them, but it has a real basis.)



Yes, this is a good post that I think points to the reasons for the association I'm trying to highlight.

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I think it's simple, people vote for games they played. And some genres just aren't as popular as others.

Disco Elysium was my GOTY 2019 and it wasn't nominated for GOTY probably because more people played Outer Worlds, who lost to DE at "Best RPG" category.

Just see Among Us, it won some prizes 2 years after release because that's when people played it. Dreams was robbed.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

Never heard any of these except for walking sim.