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Oct 27, 2017
404
Ireland
Been a week since I saw it, still every day mulling it over in my mind - imagining that world (a sign of an excellent movie imo). So I am thinking about that initial bullet, and how inversion works and free will.
It has a lot in common with Arrival, which deals with a predetermined future - while in Tenet the predetermined part is relative to the view of someone in that instant e.g moving to catch the bullet 'causes' it to leap up.

It's the inverted persons interactions with non inverted material that causes me to lose grip at times. One question about the inverted items the scientist shows him, why was the future sending them back and how would one know how to use inverted items to your advantage. ?
 

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
Cool movie but I guess i would have wished for a less scenes/complicated way to get Sator and more scenes about the future affecting the past

One of the reviews I read said the future is at war with the past for allowing climate change? Did anyone catch this?
Its covered a bit in a conversation between Sator and The Protagonist, its brief and kind of dissovles more into Sator's ego than the mysterious future antagonist that are pulling the strings.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
One of the reviews I read said the future is at war with the past for allowing climate change? Did anyone catch this?

Yes. But, only after rewatching the film the way god intended.

8C4MMr2.jpg


Sator says during his big villain speech that the future is trying to wipe out the past because their oceans are boiling and whatnot. Thus, inverting the world is their only means of survival. He then asks the Protagonist if he still wants to stop him knowing this. P retorts that its not his problem, each generation must look out for itself. Sator replies that, that is exactly what they are doing. P finally jibes back that Sator is thus a traitor to his own generation.

Watching the film a second time with CC certaintly helped pick up on certain key piece of dialog. I realize now that it's not just the music and effects that prevent you from hearing certain critical dialog, it's the way dialog is delivered so plainly. Important dialog is just thrown out there like a regular conversation where with any other film it would linger on the moment to ensure the audience digests what was just said. Like, Priya is the one that tells P that TENET is created in the future, not the past. But, the film never lingers on this, it blows right past it. Whereas a regular film would hold on the moment including a close-up of P's reaction.

I still find the final climactic battle clunky, especially Kat and Sator's role. You've got this massive intricate battle happening yet Kat's role in everything is so boring and mundane. Hey lady, please keep your husband happy for like an hour, okay? Please? Crazy time shit is happening yet they have to cut back to Kat trying to sweet talk her insane husband which does not have the same urgency as the battle. Compare this sequence with the finale of Inception and its night and day with each layer having really intense sequences happening simultaneously.

I think the best sequence is the Oslo airport scene. The inverse climactic battle just doesn't have that same level of intensity but also personal factor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,360
I'll read through the whole thread tomorrow, but was there some speculation here who Neil could be?

A possible (?)sequel/prequel(?) could dive deeper into their relationship, right?

There's mild speculation that it could be Kat's kid but that's needlessly overcomplicated imo, even if it adds an extra layer as to why he buys into the mission, to the point of years of living inverse.
 

Antialias

Frostbite Physics
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
27
I enjoyed this film but I couldn't ignore how much of the plot was lifted from the Night Manager; Elizabeth Debicki even plays exactly the same character in this as she does in that series. At least there, the main character was given enough motivation to care about her - in this film the lengths the Protagonist goes to to protect her despite their paper thin relationship are just nonsensical.

Maybe not that many Americans have seen the Night Manager but I found it a very distracting similarity, especially in the 20 minutes or so set on the yacht in the middle of the film, which was almost indistinguishable from the BBC series.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
I'll read through the whole thread tomorrow, but was there some speculation here who Neil could be?

A possible (?)sequel/prequel(?) could dive deeper into their relationship, right?

Just a fan theory that he's Kat's kid, but while it's a nice fan theory it is clearly not the case. Nolan doesn't deal in subtlety. If Neil was someone important or related to anyone, Nolan would have straight up revealed that. He doesn't leave twists out in the open, he slams them in your face.
 

Jeffolation

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,146
I'll need to see it a few more times to get a better understanding of the plot but the thing is I can't wait to see it again cause god damn the action sequences and soundtrack alone fucking brought it.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
I'll need to see it a few more times to get a better understanding of the plot but the thing is I can't wait to see it again cause god damn the action sequences and soundtrack alone fucking brought it.
Same, I'm not sure if I need to be blown up with the audio again though.

Apparently some theaters were lowering the volumes because the vibrations were too strong and ruining adjacent rooms.
 

Future Gazer

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,273
This film was a fucking mess. The frantic pacing, constant location jumping, and indiscernible dialogue just ended up giving me a headache.

I mean, I enjoyed parts of it. The highway scene was really fucking cool when everything clicks into place. But that final battle... woof.

And I feel like I still don't understand the concept of inverted bullets. Like, how exactly is John David Washington able to catch them by just waving his hand over them? Shit makes no sense to me.
 

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
one thing I need clarified is Priya said nine devices nine super powers

Is she implying at one point all the devices were under the protection of the government. Soviets lost their piece and at some point Sator managed to get the rest?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,641
This film was a fucking mess. The frantic pacing, constant location jumping, and indiscernible dialogue just ended up giving me a headache.

I mean, I enjoyed parts of it. The highway scene was really fucking cool when everything clicks into place. But that final battle... woof.

And I feel like I still don't understand the concept of inverted bullets. Like, how exactly is John David Washington able to catch them by just waving his hand over them? Shit makes no sense to me.
Cause and effect looks like it's reversed for us when interacting with inverted objects. The effect is that he dropped the bullet, the cause is that he was holding it. Think of it as a closed loop. It's not that he waved his hand over the bullet. He was holding the bullet and then dropped it.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
This film was a fucking mess. The frantic pacing, constant location jumping, and indiscernible dialogue just ended up giving me a headache.

I mean, I enjoyed parts of it. The highway scene was really fucking cool when everything clicks into place. But that final battle... woof.

And I feel like I still don't understand the concept of inverted bullets. Like, how exactly is John David Washington able to catch them by just waving his hand over them? Shit makes no sense to me.
hes not waving his hands, hes dropping it.

the movie specifically tells you that waving your hand wont work, you had to have dropped it.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
one thing I need clarified is Priya said nine devices nine super powers

Is she implying at one point all the devices were under the protection of the government. Soviets lost their piece and at some point Sator managed to get the rest?
no, the scientist who made the device hid the pieces in 9 different nuclear facilities. sator was able to find all of them because hes an arms dealer with connections to those nuclear facilities. thats why he was picked by the people in the future, he was the best person to acquire them.
 

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
no, the scientist who made the device hid the pieces in 9 different nuclear facilities. sator was able to find all of them because hes an arms dealer with connections to those nuclear facilities. thats why he was picked by the people in the future, he was the best person to acquire them.
thanks.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
One question about the inverted items the scientist shows him, why was the future sending them back and how would one know how to use inverted items to your advantage. ?
the future wasnt sending them back. sator was inverting the bullets every time he went through the machines. thats why Priya tells the protaganist that the bullets were perfectly ordinary when she sold it to him.

As for how did they take advantage of it, thats where Tenet comes into play. there are two factions in the future. one is trying to destroy us (the grandfather paradox) and the other is tenet, the agency the protagonist belongs to. they have scientists in the present who have been able to study the inverted stuff and have figured out how it works. the protagonist himself goes through the machine and inverts himself. the soldiers are clearly well trained so either they are from the future or they have known about this for a while and have prepared (masks, containers, inverted bullets etc.)
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
After seeing it again, elements became more clear. I will say the actual inverted objects mechanic isn't really used in the film. It's introduced in the first act and then dropped, never to be utilized again.

All the inverted weapons and objects the scientist has in her lab aren't actually from the future, they are from the past. They come from the final battle in the film which chronologically speaking occurs before the film begins. These weapons were used by the inverted soldiers in that fight and were brought to the lab by TENET afterwards.

The funny thing about the film is that TENET "saves" the past by dooming their future. The future world is suffering the havoc of Global Warming which we know will occur because Tenet stops the future antagonists from inverting the world.
 

MetalGearZed

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,932
Just got out of the theater. Man, between this and Black Panther, Ludwig Göransson is quickly becoming one of my favorite composers. That score kicked ass.

(For some reason, prior to viewing, I thought Lorne Balfe was doing the score)
 

oni_saru

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
828
I saw this at a drive in and didn't think the audio was too bad.

I was still a bit confused by the end but will need to watch it again which is okay because I really liked it!

I was confused about how the inverse stuff really works. The general plot made sense.

Loved the action scenes and the music!! I wish I could see it again in IMAX but will just wait till the BR release
 

Future Gazer

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,273
Cause and effect looks like it's reversed for us when interacting with inverted objects. The effect is that he dropped the bullet, the cause is that he was holding it. Think of it as a closed loop. It's not that he waved his hand over the bullet. He was holding the bullet and then dropped it.
hes not waving his hands, hes dropping it.

the movie specifically tells you that waving your hand wont work, you had to have dropped it.

Thanks. I think I kind of get it. So the future is already written and free will is basically just an illusion? Nobody else could have walked into that room and picked up those bullets, it had to be Washington, because that's the timeline that has already played out from the bullets perspective.
 

TechMetalRules

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,215
United States
I enjoyed this film but I couldn't ignore how much of the plot was lifted from the Night Manager; Elizabeth Debicki even plays exactly the same character in this as she does in that series. At least there, the main character was given enough motivation to care about her - in this film the lengths the Protagonist goes to to protect her despite their paper thin relationship are just nonsensical.

Maybe not that many Americans have seen the Night Manager but I found it a very distracting similarity, especially in the 20 minutes or so set on the yacht in the middle of the film, which was almost indistinguishable from the BBC series.
Thank you! I forgot the name of that show, but I was totally thinking the same. I'm in the US and I did see Night Manager when it was on Netflix (I think that's where I saw it).
 

TheKeyPit

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,865
Germany
What do you mean? Neil is, well... Neil.
There's mild speculation that it could be Kat's kid but that's needlessly overcomplicated imo, even if it adds an extra layer as to why he buys into the mission, to the point of years of living inverse.
Just a fan theory that he's Kat's kid, but while it's a nice fan theory it is clearly not the case. Nolan doesn't deal in subtlety. If Neil was someone important or related to anyone, Nolan would have straight up revealed that. He doesn't leave twists out in the open, he slams them in your face.
That was definitely a thought that crossed my mind while watching it.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,625
One of the reviews I read said the future is at war with the past for allowing climate change? Did anyone catch this?
Not while watching it

I still find the final climactic battle clunky, especially Kat and Sator's role. You've got this massive intricate battle happening yet Kat's role in everything is so boring and mundane. Hey lady, please keep your husband happy for like an hour, okay? Please? Crazy time shit is happening yet they have to cut back to Kat trying to sweet talk her insane husband which does not have the same urgency as the battle. Compare this sequence with the finale of Inception and its night and day with each layer having really intense sequences happening simultaneously.
Clunky is a very good word for it.

After seeing it again, elements became more clear. I will say the actual inverted objects mechanic isn't really used in the film. It's introduced in the first act and then dropped, never to be utilized again.
Yeah, it's so weird. Feels like there's so much missed potential if Nolan had just took more time to focus on the actual tenet stuff rather than the generic spy movie plot.

The funny thing about the film is that TENET "saves" the past by dooming their future. The future world is suffering the havoc of Global Warming which we know will occur because Tenet stops the future antagonists from inverting the world.
Wait the idea was that inversing the world would reverse climate change? Absolutely never got that idea from what I could hear
 
Last edited:

blanton

alt account
Banned
Jul 28, 2020
1,576
Really enjoyed Göransson's work in this. He elevated a lot of the film and deviated enough while keeping the usual Nolan flair. The entire heist sequence on the highway with the trucks was solid.

 

mandiller

Member
Oct 27, 2017
573
Australia
Wait the idea was that inversing the world would reverse climate change? Absolutely never got that idea from what I could hear

The only time it's mentioned is during the big baddie's speech over the phone to the Protagonist while he's stuck behind the gate trying to reach the algorithm. I didn't hear everything in the film, but I did hear that part fairly clearly. It's strange that they didn't dwell on that concept of the future world being screwed by the past too much.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,625
Alright, I love Christopher Nolan still, but I'm going to talk about the main reason, for me, why the story of Tenet fundamentally doesn't work for me.

4206e9a90514ad25944aada4a58f25a9.jpg


Think about the protagonists of all of Nolan's previous films. All of these characters have deep conflict within them and we also know clearly what their goals are. Leonard Shelby (Memento) wants to avenge the rape and murder of his wife while suffering from a severe memory loss problem. Bruce Wayne as Batman is driven by his desire to bring justice and devoting himself to an ideal to become a legend. Robert Angier (The Prestige) wants to beat Alfred Borden at magic and will go to extreme lengths to do it, driven by sheer obsession. Cobb (Inception) wants to get back to his kids in America and he has to take on this one last job to make that happen, while being deeply conflicted over what happened with his wife. In Dark Knight Rises Bruce rises above his pain and his trauma and lets himself live a happy life. Cooper (Interstellar) wants to save the world and get back to his son and daughter, knowing that decades will go by for them while he experiences months or years.

Now consider The Protagonist, the protagonist of Tenet. The protagonist's whole journey is driven by...this.

tenor.gif


There's no deep conflict at the heart of The Protagonist's journey, and he doesn't have a clear goal aside from seeing where this one word will take him. Yes, he feels bad for Kat and he doesn't want her to die because of him using her, but that's an added complication. His journey is basically driven by the need to unlock a mystery box, to solve a puzzle. Which ends with him realizing that he was the one in the future to set events in motion and started Tenet. Basically...his character arc concludes in learning about learning a future plot development.

A story needs to have clear character motivations and goals set up early on in the first arc not only for it to be good but for it to work. Instead, Tenet seems to think its premise is good enough and gets lost and caught up in plotting and keeps adding new idea after new idea. Sure, Inception is complicated too, but it's very simple and easy to follow at its core.

Additionally, structurally, the prologue showing the Protagonist doing his job works fine, but we are not given nearly enough to actually empathize with him following this. Our takeaway from his torture and passing the test is, he's a good guy and a good soldier. But we're not supposed to sympathize with him throughout the film for having to endure such ordeals in the name of service. He's a pretty chill dude consistently making jobs.

Again, compare this to All of Nolan's other films. The Prestige almost immediately makes us sympathize with its protagonist when his wife tragically dies during a magic trick because of an accident by Bale's character. Inception gives us a similar opening prologue to Tenet with the protagonist living his "day to day life" doing his job, but this prologue and the scene that follow generate empathy for him as we learn that he can't go home and be with his kids, which is what he wants the most. We see his memory of his kids. "When are you coming home, dad?" In the same scene, we also learn that he's feeling pain over the death of his wife ("Mommy's not here anymore") and that he has self doubt in his grasp of reality, pointing a gun to his head while watching the totem spin.

And yeah, there's a good amount of clunkiness to the plotting as Daneel_O and BossAttack have said...but I think I should review the film some more to talk about that. Inception really was a masterwork in storytelling and this movie sadly failed in so many fundamental ways that Inception succeeded in.
 

Donos

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,541
I like Washington's vibe but i hope he doesn't go the same path as his father and plays the same "cool" character in all his movies. Want him to show some range.
 
Oct 27, 2017
404
Ireland
Thanks. I think I kind of get it. So the future is already written and free will is basically just an illusion? Nobody else could have walked into that room and picked up those bullets, it had to be Washington, because that's the timeline that has already played out from the bullets perspective.
It's kinda like arrival, you need to first know that time is not linear, and every actions consequences are immediately known. You can interact however you please but at each instance time sorts itself out it's ever changing. At least that's my take.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
Thanks. I think I kind of get it. So the future is already written and free will is basically just an illusion? Nobody else could have walked into that room and picked up those bullets, it had to be Washington, because that's the timeline that has already played out from the bullets perspective.

Well, Neil and some other protagonists take a more optimistic view of free will. Your fate is predetermined, but you still have free will to act. No one forced JDW to move his hand over the bullet, he chose to do that. He could've chosen not to, yet he freely chose to do that. And, in doing so the eventual fate of the bullet was predetermined.

Neil puts this aptly when he states that just because events are predetermined is not an excuse not to act.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,054
tenor.gif


There's no deep conflict at the heart of The Protagonist's journey, and he doesn't have a clear goal aside from seeing where this one word will take him. Yes, he feels bad for Kat and he doesn't want her to die because of him using her, but that's an added complication. His journey is basically driven by the need to unlock a mystery box, to solve a puzzle. Which ends with him realizing that he was the one in the future to set events in motion and started Tenet. Basically...his character arc concludes in learning about learning a future plot development.

This is over simplifying it, but it wasn't just curiosity of a word. He had died, he was erased as his CIA life by a mysterious group who gave him a location to seek answers. His motivation comes into play when he is shown the truth with the inverted slab and the bullets. He was curious in the movie for like a whole 5min of screen time before he got to the Dr who shows him whats going on. That is when he understands what he is up to and his new motivation. He wasn't trying to simply solve a puzzle but also just doing "good" in a sense by saving the world, we see many times throughout the movie how he's a good guy, tries to avoid needless killing or harming. He's trying to prevent this "war", if anything it kinda simplifies him for all we know is that he's a dedicated soldier in a sense but then they give him Kat as a further motive once the ball is rolling.
 

Sylvestre

Banned
Mar 20, 2020
763
Watched this over the week-end
Worst Nolan for me, by far

Couldnt understand about 65% of the dialogue (masks didnt help...) so story made little sense to me.

I did not understand why the "forward" version of the characters didnt see the "backward" version going backward. Eg: in the boat scene, why did "forward" Kat saw "backward" kat jump in the water istead of getting out of it ? How could the "backward" people breath without masks ? Is it because they went backward until before the boat scene, then took another machien to go forward ? If so, what did they do the whole time they were backward to pass time ?

I didnt understand who the 2 "factions" were fighting at the end. Why did we never see the ennemy ? It was only people shooting at buildings for 45 minutes.
I really struggled not to leave the theater half way through...

I didnt undestand the main character motivations, or why he was so strung out about saving Kat. The world is ending, why is she such a priority ?

I guessed the "twist" about the masked men being the two main guys as soon as Neil removed that dude mask and it was out of frame... not too clever.

I think I'm done with seeing that guy's movies in theater, Inception was his last good movie imo.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
Watched this over the week-end
Worst Nolan for me, by far

Couldnt understand about 65% of the dialogue (masks didnt help...) so story made little sense to me.

I did not understand why the "forward" version of the characters didnt see the "backward" version going backward. Eg: in the boat scene, why did "forward" Kat saw "backward" kat jump in the water istead of getting out of it ? How could the "backward" people breath without masks ? Is it because they went backward until before the boat scene, then took another machien to go forward ? If so, what did they do the whole time they were backward to pass time ?

I didnt understand who the 2 "factions" were fighting at the end. Why did we never see the ennemy ? It was only people shooting at buildings for 45 minutes.
I really struggled not to leave the theater half way through...

I didnt undestand the main character motivations, or why he was so strung out about saving Kat. The world is ending, why is she such a priority ?

I guessed the "twist" about the masked men being the two main guys as soon as Neil removed that dude mask and it was out of frame... not too clever.

I think I'm done with seeing that guy's movies in theater, Inception was his last good movie imo.

Well you're not wrong about the muffled dialogue, but most of your questions are answered in the film.

You need to understand how inversion and the turnstiles work. When you invert the world around you appears to move in reverse. Meanwhile, an inverted person will appear to be moving backwards to a person moving through the regular flow of time. Someone who is inverted needs their own air supply because they can't breathe through inverted air. Inversion is basically how you can go backwards in time. However, you can't stop going backwards unless you revert through the use of another turnstile. That's what they were doing by returning to the Oslo freeport. They had inverted in Estonia "after" the chase scene to save Kat's life, but they needed to revert to have continue back through the normal flow of time. Once they revert, they no longer need masks since they are passing through time normally.

At the end, the invert/time travel to the very start of the film (chronologically speaking) and then revert to participate in the final battle, the same goes for Kat and the boat.

As for the main character's motivations, that is a legitimate complaint as his characterization is thin. He's basically a good guy, he cares about saving Kat because he cares about saving people just like how he saved the opera house attendees at the start despite the fact that it wasn't his mission. He's just a good dude.
 

Sylvestre

Banned
Mar 20, 2020
763
Well you're not wrong about the muffled dialogue, but most of your questions are answered in the film.

You need to understand how inversion and the turnstiles work. When you invert the world around you appears to move in reverse. Meanwhile, an inverted person will appear to be moving backwards to a person moving through the regular flow of time. Someone who is inverted needs their own air supply because they can't breathe through inverted air. Inversion is basically how you can go backwards in time. However, you can't stop going backwards unless you revert through the use of another turnstile. That's what they were doing by returning to the Oslo freeport. They had inverted in Estonia "after" the chase scene to save Kat's life, but they needed to revert to have continue back through the normal flow of time. Once they revert, they no longer need masks since they are passing through time normally.

At the end, the invert/time travel to the very start of the film (chronologically speaking) and then revert to participate in the final battle, the same goes for Kat and the boat.

As for the main character's motivations, that is a legitimate complaint as his characterization is thin. He's basically a good guy, he cares about saving Kat because he cares about saving people just like how he saved the opera house attendees at the start despite the fact that it wasn't his mission. He's just a good dude.

Ok that's what I gathered, they went back to "normal" time flow.

About the dialogue, I think ill need to go to an hear doctor actually, I realized I couldnt hear anything any time the mouths were covered, which I suspect might be because I rely on lip reading ...

Still, what was the last fight about ? Who are they actually fighting ? Why dont we see the enemy faction ? This whole "war" scene was so bad... dont want to think how much it cost damn.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I did not understand why the "forward" version of the characters didnt see the "backward" version going backward. Eg: in the boat scene, why did "forward" Kat saw "backward" kat jump in the water istead of getting out of it ? How could the "backward" people breath without masks ? Is it because they went backward until before the boat scene, then took another machien to go forward ? If so, what did they do the whole time they were backward to pass time ?
Kat had gone through the machine twice. thats how she was able to breathe. she was no longer inverted.

she is told to travel back a day prior to the vietnam vacation to give her enough time to travel to vietnam.

so yes, they have to wait. they are basically living in the past. waiting.

as for why hes so hung up on kat, well, it's a character flaw. he's a good guy, and you see that he doesnt want to let people in the auditorium die. he lets his team go at it alone knowing that they have been compromised. So its not the first time we have seen him risk the mission.

Oh and the final battle scene, it is very confusing and i am still not sure why they had to go in inverted. But from what i could make out, you had two teams, one inverted, the other not. The inverted team and the regular team both have to put on a show, their job is to FAIL the mission. the bomb HAS to go off. if the bomb doesnt go off, Michael Caine's character doesnt tell the Protagonist about an explosion and the Protaganist doesnt know where to find the final pieces of the algorithm. The inverted team is actually sitting in the containers when the other team is getting briefed. They had the advantage of knowing what is going to happen because the inverted team had technically gone through it already.
 

TheKeyPit

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,865
Germany
Did anyone who watched a dubbed version have problems with the dialogue?

I understood every word here in Germany except for some scenes where they said something on the battlefield, but those weren't very important bits.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
Ok that's what I gathered, they went back to "normal" time flow.

About the dialogue, I think ill need to go to an hear doctor actually, I realized I couldnt hear anything any time the mouths were covered, which I suspect might be because I rely on lip reading ...

Still, what was the last fight about ? Who are they actually fighting ? Why dont we see the enemy faction ? This whole "war" scene was so bad... dont want to think how much it cost damn.

Nah, your hearing is fine, the audio mixing is shite. This is a common complaint everyone is having, including me. I actually rewatched with a CC device, I also noticed the audio was mixed a little better in standard theaters as opposed to Dolby.

The final battle is between the Tenet organization and Sator's men. Sator is attempting to detonate the algorithm and thus invert the entire world, which would likely wipe everyone from existence. The battle takes place at Stalsk-12, the secret soviet city that Sator first learned about the algorithm from the future. This battle is also taking place at the exact same time as the opera house shootout at the start of the film.

To assault the base, Tenet employs a "temporal pincer movement" in which half the team goes into battle in normal time and the other half inverted thus they can feed information to the other team. It's a bit complicated, but it makes sense. Basically, Blue Team is inverted and lands at the battle at the start, after Sator blows up the mine to seal away the algorithm. Thus, we see as Blue lands the explosion inverting itself and we see Neil's truck go backwards from saving Ives and P ("at the end," which as you can see is merely a perspective). Blue watches the battle play out in reverse and returns to their chopper so they can relay everything they saw to Red Team in the past. As Blue returns to their chopper, they witness Red Team beginning the assault, the "start" of the battle," in possession of the information they've already received from Blue Team.

Blue Team goes into their chopper, still inverted, and gives their information to Red Team who plan their assault based on the intel Blue Team has acquired. When Red Team starts their assault, from their perspective they witness Blue Team walking backwards out of their chopper, attempting to leave the battlefield with the intel to give to Red Team. Neil starts on Blue Team, but he witnesses the entrance to the hypocenter being mined. He notices this and instead of returning with Blue Team he reverts in the middle of the battle, effectively switching from Blue Team to Red Team. He then hops in a truck, almost runs over himself, and saves Ives and P.

However, at the very "end," we see that an inverted individual takes a bullet for P and unlocks the gate to reach the algorithm. That individual has the same red tag coin that Neil carries around. Thus, it was Neil that opened the door and sacrificed his life to save P. At the "end" Neil realizes he was the individual in the tunnel and understands he's got to go back in at some point to invert himself again to open the door and die.

I will say its unclear if Neil goes "back in" right away or if he does it sometime later. The fact that inversion/time travel exists means that so long as he knows and is committed to returning to that point to open the door it makes no difference if he does it right then or years "later." Pretty trippy. We also know Neil is the one that saves P's life at the start of the film in the opera house.
 

495

Member
Jun 17, 2018
287
I like Washington's vibe but i hope he doesn't go the same path as his father and plays the same "cool" character in all his movies. Want him to show some range.

Should I be ashamed that this post right here let me know that JDW was the son of Denzel? I had no idea! And I was even a fan after blackklansman... wow! He doesnt look anything like his father but has the acting chops for sure!
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
For anyone who didn't really get the story, this is the entire plot from start to finish.

www.vulture.com

A Beat-by-Beat Explanation of What Happens in Tenet

Turns out the plot of Christopher Nolan’s movie is also a mystery to people who have seen it.

Thanks to this I saw the Reddit thread asking the same damn question that has been bugging me, how did Sator get the 241? I still can't work it out in my head. For one, it happens off-screen. But also the logistics boggles my mind, I don't get when he got the 241.
 

Ripcord

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,785
I dunno why I wasn't expecting a lecture on non-linear time from Nolan. Lol. I thought the film was fascinating but nobody disrespects my time like Nolan. Not even the Cohen's would ask me to parse three tracks of dialog occurring at the same time in the same scene repeated twice. Madman.

I'm the only one in my group who enjoyed it. Everybody else was bored to tears and I don't blame them.
 

JasonV

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,968
To assault the base, Tenet employs a "temporal pincer movement" in which half the team goes into battle in normal time and the other half inverted thus they can feed information to the other team.

The battle scene was a great idea but terribly executed and entirely incoherent.

We needed to see the normal team actually benefit from the inverted teams intel; I can't remember a single scene of that.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,138
The battle scene was a great idea but terribly executed and entirely incoherent.

We needed to see the normal team actually benefit from the inverted teams intel; I can't remember a single scene of that.

Well, I think the point was to confuse the viewer. Also, the entire battle is mostly a diversion for the splinter team to get inside the hypocenter and retrieve the algorithm.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,775
I dunno why I wasn't expecting a lecture on non-linear time from Nolan. Lol. I thought the film was fascinating but nobody disrespects my time like Nolan. Not even the Cohen's would ask me to parse three tracks of dialog occurring at the same time in the same scene repeated twice. Madman.

I'm the only one in my group who enjoyed it. Everybody else was bored to tears and I don't blame them.

I don't understand how anyone could be "bored to tears" with this movie. Not understanding everything, sure. Being confused by some aspects, fine. But bored? The action set pieces are incredibly grand and enthralling.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,459
New York
Thanks to this I saw the Reddit thread asking the same damn question that has been bugging me, how did Sator get the 241? I still can't work it out in my head. For one, it happens off-screen. But also the logistics boggles my mind, I don't get when he got the 241.
Yea, stuff like this is what is still confusing me. The movie makes such a mess of basic stuff like this.
 

Ripcord

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,785
I don't understand how anyone could be "bored to tears" with this movie. Not understanding everything, sure. Being confused by some aspects, fine. But bored? The action set pieces are incredibly grand and enthralling.
I wouldn't describe the action as grand or enthralling. I think that's really generous myself. Not to mention that most of the action was moved forward by exposition attempting to explain the action as it unfolded.

I described it as an action oriented Ted Talk to a friend of mine, which I enjoyed. I think it's an average action movie with an uninspired plot considering the subject matter.

Of course I also don't know how I would write a 4d story that 3d brains with no understanding/interest of time would enjoy so I'm not trying to be critical. Just in awe that Nolan gets these movies to the big stage in the first place. Lol.
 

cyba89

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,641
Did anyone who watched a dubbed version have problems with the dialogue?

I understood every word here in Germany except for some scenes where they said something on the battlefield, but those weren't very important bits.

Same. I had no problem understanding the dialogue with the german dub.
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,296
NJ
This movie was okay. extremely entertaining, but overwhelmingly unnecessary in its complexity in regards to getting from plot point A to B.

The whole first half is a mess because of the absurd breakneck pacing. Just think back of everything that happens in like the first 45 minutes:

- an insane opera siege that barely takes a second to explain what is happening or why;
- protagonist gets brutally tortured, his teeth get pulled;
- he slips in a coma [how long?] and his teeth are magically back, no problems;
- out of nowhere is recruited in.. yeah, in what? An organisation called Tenet? Is it a nameless organisation where Tenet is the codeword? What is it?
- He sleeps in a wind turbine [why?] and goes to [???] somewhere to meet this doctor, we don't know why;
- Then out of nowhere he's confronted with the most insane, life changing, mindbogglingly incredible situation anyone has ever experienced [that time can move in reverse, seemingly at will with certain objects];
- The protagonist just shrugs it off, there is ZERO time for him or us to contemplate the meaning of this concept;
- Now we're in Mumbai and do some insane stunt that ends up being a colossal waste of time [heh] because the lady is actually in the same organisation as you [???];
- O look we're in London to talk to Michael Caine;
- There's a plot about a forged painting that feels hilariously arbitrary considering all the insane time stuff that's somehow put on the sideline;
- can't emphasize enough how terrible the "my husband is blackmailing me with this forged painting I made him buy" plotline is in the overarching plot of the movie;
- Now we're in Oslo and the movie is a full-on heist movie;
- Now we're in Italy I guess?
- Back to Mumbai
- etc.

I mean, the sheer effort it takes just to get to talk to Sator is absolutely insane.

Aside from the crazy globetrotting and pace the movie is constantly moving its own goal posts. It starts with Tenet being this shadow organisation only a handful of people know with time inversion being some top-secret concept. By the end there is an army, a literal army, traveling backwards in time using their very own turnstils while seemingly everyone and their mom is inversing at will whenever it suits them.

Movie tries to be smart but isn't really? There were some clever scenes where timeflows intersect and I could almost hear Nolan thinking to himself "holy shit I am so clever" from behind the camera. But I kinda feel the more you actually try and think about what's happening, the less you'll enjoy this movie.

I left the theater feeling a lot of the same thoughts. I love love love Nolan. My favorite director right now but this seems like a misfire. Its good, not great, but its only good because it fails at the basics. The best comparison I can make, like others have, is to Inception:

  • Inception has no audio/hearing problems so you hear and comprehend everything clearly.
  • Inception: Yes exposition but ITS NEEDED and it lets you hear it and understand it and holds for a moment so you get what is going on and what is going to happen.
  • As a result, you also get a better "reason" for why everything is happening and why. In Tenet the stakes are huge. Basically the end of the world/our timeline/reality but everything is brushed aside so rapidly we are already on to the next 2-3 plot points if you spend 10 seconds to even try to think about it.
  • Tenet is like 2-3 movies in 1. Tenet gives you no time to breathe at all in a bad way. I love that pace during action sequences but not when you are trying to world build and set up the rules. And again nothing seems to hit the characters for them to show how shocking, earth-shattering, and revolutionary all of this is. No one reacts to anything.

Maybe I need to see it again but unlike Inception, I left the theater confused and not necessarily entertained. I left Inception and couldn't wait to see it again. Yes, some of it was confusing but it was great fun and the ending left you guessing.

I know ppl kill Nolan about his characters being sterile but Tenet is the first film where I have felt like that was true. In Inception, I cared a ton about Leo getting back to his kids (as someone with kids this always hits home), I felt the pain he had, the battles with his dead wife in his dreams, and even Cilian Murphy's character connecting with his dad in a dream.

And I know ppl are very mixed on Hans Zimmer but he knocks it out of the park with emotional tones which are completely missing in TENET. Yes, the score is good but its lacking something IMO. Inception hits all the perfect notes, and the music takes it over the top. The track TIME is perfection for that last sequence. The music when Cilian Murphy is talking to his dad makes the scene. Same with Interstellar start to finish.

he probably regretted using her

Yea this part isn't that confusing. He finds her to be a helpless woman stuck in a terrible situation AND he is going to use her to get to her husband. So of course he wants to help her by saving her and her kid.
 

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,861
Yea, stuff like this is what is still confusing me. The movie makes such a mess of basic stuff like this.
Wasn't the point that it wasn't actually 241 but the ninth part of the algorithm?

During the highway chase [and the segment where protagonist is inverted] you can see forward moving protagonist throw the case to Sator but the algorithm to inverse protagonist. Sator then makes the car crash and takes the algorithm and sets the car on fire [which turns to ice because somehow that's how physics work when inverted].

Some stuff happens so superfast in extremely hectic situations and editing that it made me go "...wait, what, did I see that right?" multiple times.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,664
The battle scene was a great idea but terribly executed and entirely incoherent.

We needed to see the normal team actually benefit from the inverted teams intel; I can't remember a single scene of that.
This is what bugs me. The execution is just shoddy.
If the blue team is waiting an hour so that they can pass info to the red team, then they need to show this passing of information.

While we are at it, wouldn't the meeting point for both of them would be right before the red team goes into the battlefield and blue team goes into the turnstile. So that way Red team already knows everything that's about to happen before they even head in....else what is even the point of Blue team waiting an hour and going back in time lol? I think a better way to show this sequence would be to show each perspective one at a time rather than at the same time concurrently. So you show it from Protagonist's perspective then stop at the cave in without showing us whether the Portagonist survived or not, switch over to Neil and go backward from that point onwards so as to show him doing things to save the protagonist. Then flip over and show us how the protagonist is alive due to the action Neil just did. That's simple...3 time frames in sequence. Not this back and forth bs several times.

Another thing I'm confused about is, why did Pattinson had to do the switcheroo several times during the battle when he could have simply gone all the way back to the point where Blue team goes into the turnstile, and simply told the protagonist about the trip wire then.
 
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