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Tell me a flaw of a game you consider a masterpiece
- Thread starter Lightjolly
- Start date
Super Mario Bros. 3: The artifacts on the right side of the screen.
Bloodborne: Frame pacing, bad anti-aliasing.
Bloodborne: Frame pacing, bad anti-aliasing.
Care to provide a reasonable counter example instead of saying "Nah, ya wrong!", bud?
Mini bosses at the end of each Act in Sonic 3 & Knuckles
the stages are already so huge, sometimes I just wanna complete a level by getting to the end of a level y'know
the stages are already so huge, sometimes I just wanna complete a level by getting to the end of a level y'know
Hollow Knight could've improved with slightly better pacing and giving the player a couple of more skills during the opening hours.
I think Nier Automata is the greatest game created in the past two console generations and I can list many flaws with it. Route B repeats too much of route A, those shmup sections go on for way too long and there's too much of them, the side quest objectives are boring, the open world felt very limiting with few pathways and too many invisible walls, the difficulty balancing is a mess, the map is awful and the characters aren't as good as Nier's.
World of Warcraft (Vanilla/Classic):
The PvP ranking system is an obtuse mess. There's no way to figure out what you need to do without addons and even then it's barely understandable and incredibly grindy.
The PvP ranking system is an obtuse mess. There's no way to figure out what you need to do without addons and even then it's barely understandable and incredibly grindy.
Witcher 3 is stunning in every way but its combat system feels really antiquated and the horseback controls blow.
TES: Morrowind is still amazing to this day but the combat was REALLY poorly thought out even back then.
The Wind Waker was a beautiful experience overall but dungeon design wasn't very good and the fetch quest at the end felt like content padding.
TES: Morrowind is still amazing to this day but the combat was REALLY poorly thought out even back then.
The Wind Waker was a beautiful experience overall but dungeon design wasn't very good and the fetch quest at the end felt like content padding.
Bayonetta (and W101 for that matter) have "mini games" that go on too long and happen too often. Bayo 2 got this right, but they also changed the combat in ways that make it easier and encourage stricter methods of dealing with enemies.
DMC3 on DMD is tedious, and the game knows this by lengthening the S rank time requirements.
Metroid Prime has never been released, officially, in HD ;D
DMC3 on DMD is tedious, and the game knows this by lengthening the S rank time requirements.
Metroid Prime has never been released, officially, in HD ;D
When you take RE4 1% seriously, you realize Leon and Ada have a nothing relationship.
"Hey Leon. Whoops, gotta go"
"ADA WAIT. Huh, typical Ada"
Riveting
"Hey Leon. Whoops, gotta go"
"ADA WAIT. Huh, typical Ada"
Riveting
And failed, at that.
Don't talk shit if you can't hold up a counter argument. I already given an extensive reason to why I think Mega Man X isn't perfect.
Outer Wild's hands-off approach can make the game feel a bit boring for the first few hours.
Also some of the end-game puzzles can be real head scratchers if the little hints of the solution go over your head or are missed entirely.
Also some of the end-game puzzles can be real head scratchers if the little hints of the solution go over your head or are missed entirely.
lol
If everyone's telling you you're wrong, maybe it's time to listen.
Kind of hard to listen when people have, again, failed to provide a counter argument from "You're wrong, I'm right."
And, again, Zero & ZX do a better job with designing levels with the wall climbing & dashing mechanics than the X series.
Just because you rejected everything other people said in this thread it doesn't mean people failed to provide a counter argument.
Just forget I said anything, I can see this isn't going anywhere.
Just forget I said anything, I can see this isn't going anywhere.
BotW has an inverse difficulty curve - it gets far too easy by the end and you become overpowered. The bosses are too few and pose no threat either.
The dungeons are also a step down from most games in the series. And the puzzle difficulty is too easy and one-dimensional.
That said, it nails the feeling of exploration so well, and creates so many emergent gameplay moments, I easily can forgive its flaws.
The dungeons are also a step down from most games in the series. And the puzzle difficulty is too easy and one-dimensional.
That said, it nails the feeling of exploration so well, and creates so many emergent gameplay moments, I easily can forgive its flaws.
Xenoblade Chronicles 1 has a very strong "guide dang it" syndrome. Oh you need this item to help Colony 6? Pull up a guide to find its location. Oh you need to find this NPC to continue a quest? Pull up a guide for their location. Etc. Granted, this isn't too bad if you're playing the game more casually and fine with incomplete/uncollected quests all over the place (and, to be frank, the game seems designed that way), but even something like the Colony 6 quest feels important and requires guide.
Ninja Gaiden Black gives you the option to use the bow and arrow, which is just an option until.....
Chapter 9 (I think) where you must fight through a military base and the bow becomes mandatory.
My problem with it:
1) I don't like using the bow (and you don't need to until this level)
2) It makes you a sitting duck
3) I don't use it so the controls are unfamiliar
4) No cursor (which is fine) but along with #3 it takes time to get used to which you don't have when shit is attacking you
5) You don't have to use it ever again after the tanks, heli, and comm tower
6) It is more effective to use armor penetration arrows against tanks but there is a gunner on top so you either have to manually shoot him OR go into the menu and switch to explosive arrows which do less damage but the aoe kills the gunner. Constantly switching means spending 50% of the tank battle in the menu.
7) It makes the whole level a gimmick level, and I don't like it
However, the levels before and after the military base are amazing. And thankfully the military level isn't very long.
Chapter 9 (I think) where you must fight through a military base and the bow becomes mandatory.
My problem with it:
1) I don't like using the bow (and you don't need to until this level)
2) It makes you a sitting duck
3) I don't use it so the controls are unfamiliar
4) No cursor (which is fine) but along with #3 it takes time to get used to which you don't have when shit is attacking you
5) You don't have to use it ever again after the tanks, heli, and comm tower
6) It is more effective to use armor penetration arrows against tanks but there is a gunner on top so you either have to manually shoot him OR go into the menu and switch to explosive arrows which do less damage but the aoe kills the gunner. Constantly switching means spending 50% of the tank battle in the menu.
7) It makes the whole level a gimmick level, and I don't like it
However, the levels before and after the military base are amazing. And thankfully the military level isn't very long.
Kid Icarus: Uprising is one of my favourite games of all time but man, that controller layout is uncomfortable.
-Mass Effect had some pretty significant performance issues.
-Bioshock's final boss is lame.
-The Last of Us could do without all the crate/ladder segments.
-Bioshock's final boss is lame.
-The Last of Us could do without all the crate/ladder segments.
Bloodborne- Framepacing and anti aliasing
Wind Waker - The second half of the game. First half is 15/10
Dark Souls - See Wind Waker
Super Mario Bros 3 - Nintendo rode it's dick so hard for so long that I'm kind of blasé about it now. Not the games fault tho.
Wind Waker - The second half of the game. First half is 15/10
Dark Souls - See Wind Waker
Super Mario Bros 3 - Nintendo rode it's dick so hard for so long that I'm kind of blasé about it now. Not the games fault tho.
I have been slowly keeping track of this entire mini-debate inside of this thread. It's amusing how bitter some folks have gotten about it.
Mega Man might be my favorite franchise, so I wanted to comment on this. I gave it a long think, and you're mostly right about the fundamental principals of X's level design not being altered too much. There are large portions of the X games where the dash and wall-grip are almost functionally unnecessary. Tons of segments where level design is essentially a corridor with the occasional barrier to climb over.
Most of the differences are subtle, but nonetheless meaningful. When a player can dash and and pivot like X/Zero can, you have to rethink every hazard. The same goes for the level of environmental intimacy allowed by wall climbing. In the first Mega Man X, the player was radically overpowered compared to fodder enemies. You could dash and pivot effortlessly in the air over vollies of projectiles or cling to walls and poke from a safe distance. However most bosses would find clever ways to effectively disable your enhanced mobility and make you think on your feet. Think Armored Armadillo pinballing around or Storm Eagle's air carrier detonating and him trying to push you off. Plus you had the final swath of novelty bosses in Sigma's fortress with utterly weird properties and lots of vertical thinking. In fact, the coolest thing about Mega Man X versus classic is how much more vertical the level designs tend to be since you have potentially infinite upward mobility.
That being said, very few of these changes are entirely novel. Classic Mega Man had levels where you scaled towers and arenas with death pits. Essentially every trick X games throw at the player has some infant seeds in Wily's Fortress in Mega Man 2, which I think you hinted at more or less with your first post. I would say Mega Man X 1-4 are just refined takes on expanding upon those ideas and giving a player enhanced mobility to conquer them. Mega Man X games are generally far more forgiving and liberal with their option set than classic Mega Man. It's personally why I find them more fun to play on average.
Oh and you're right about later franchises using mobility more effectively. However, in those games, you basically have to use every option at your disposal, lest you get utterly annihilated by even the earliest bosses. Yet, I don't think funneling a player into fixed patterns of movement with low thresholds of failure for achieving pinpoint platforming or conserving specialty ammo is fun. It's why I greatly prefer DOOM 2016 to DOOM Eternal in fact. Totally different means of player expression of empowerment, with radically different thresholds for failure and experimentation. Playing Mega Man X versus Classic Mega Man or Zero is far closer to a joyous romp. Mega Man X is honestly at it's lowest when bosses or hazards kill you in 1-2 hits and stifle how the player feels they can move or how many risks they can take.
Honestly, I am kind of embarrassed there are folks insisting you are wrong simply because you have an outlier opinion. I only disagree that X is somehow worse or less valuable because it doesn't iterate thoroughly. The mechanics are designed to work in an appreciable concert with the expanded economy of options and lower threshold of failure. It's a substantial departure from the classic formula that works for folks for a reason. It's actually great that Mega Man fans often have series preferences because of the minutia of each spin-off.
Wind Waker and Metroid Prime 1-3 all suffer from the same required "triforce/artifact" hunt.
I recall it being less bad in MP3 since I was able to find a lot more of them through just normally playing the game (and the level design being multiple smaller levels rather than one huge interconnected map), but MP1+2 especially were a pain to backtrack the whole map.
And outside of maybe Wind Waker which was a little light on main-game content, none of them even NEEDED large backtracking quests. Metroid Prime 1-3 are perfectly meaty experiences with plenty of optional backtracking items to find (optional weapon upgrades, as well as health and missile upgrades).
I recall it being less bad in MP3 since I was able to find a lot more of them through just normally playing the game (and the level design being multiple smaller levels rather than one huge interconnected map), but MP1+2 especially were a pain to backtrack the whole map.
And outside of maybe Wind Waker which was a little light on main-game content, none of them even NEEDED large backtracking quests. Metroid Prime 1-3 are perfectly meaty experiences with plenty of optional backtracking items to find (optional weapon upgrades, as well as health and missile upgrades).
Don't know if a demo counts...
I think the final puzzle to the PT demo is both agonizing and rewarding at the same time. You'd know if you've played the demo and solved the puzzle to get the final reveal.
I think the final puzzle to the PT demo is both agonizing and rewarding at the same time. You'd know if you've played the demo and solved the puzzle to get the final reveal.
So many people saying Bloodborne but not pointing out that Blood Vials are just worse than estus from a gameplay perspective in my opinion.
Chrono Trigger - Needed a harder difficulty option.
Bloodborne - Framepacing.
Mega Man X - I guess they could've implemented a save feature instead of the password system?
Bloodborne - Framepacing.
Mega Man X - I guess they could've implemented a save feature instead of the password system?
This. It's my GOAT and the QTEs are so bad they give you the same sensation that you get from compensating for collision issues or a bad camera in some games. And I'm not an anti-QTE guy when they're telegraphed properly and they're a fair game of reflexes.
Both NiER games: the combat isn't really what you're there for and it feels like an afterthought
Zelda oot: going back to sera like right after you left, idk I like it but it isn't the best communicated
Mario odessey: wasted levels and moreo too many moons. They feel valueless to me when you have so many and I have no reason to want to complete the thing.
Zelda oot: going back to sera like right after you left, idk I like it but it isn't the best communicated
Mario odessey: wasted levels and moreo too many moons. They feel valueless to me when you have so many and I have no reason to want to complete the thing.