Technical Warning for Ion Fury on Xbox One (all consoles?)

[Runner]

Kinda strange knowing that the engine itself is at least 25 years old and doesn't require much ram of cpu. That's one of the reasons Duke 3D is almost on all device known to mankind.
This is an adjusted version, I know, bit that should not make this suddenly thousands times more difficult.

Duke 3D was running 60fps on Vita by example. In core the same engine.

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The issue, I think, is that graphical progress was not a linear progression. The addition of GPUs and multi-cores, and other things like that mean that games can be.

A 'modern' game on an old engine wouldn't be able to take these things into account- instead if they add more complexity it dumps it all into the same DOS-optimized algorithms on one CPU core.

The difference is how 'heavily' it's modified. There's a ship of theseus argument to be made- source 2 was based on source 1 was based on the half-life engine which was based on Quake but there's no quake code remaining as of source 1- but if there's still build engine code in there it's certainly not expected to work fine when pushed harder in newer infrastructures.

 

[Izkda]

There's a certain value in derails as seen in this very thread, where multiple people didn't know of the transphobia issue until it was brought up here.

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You could probably get the same result with a mod note and a link to the original thread in the OP.

 

[piratethingy]

I went back and checked. One poster called Dark's support "very disappointing". One called it "rather problematic".

Why is the GAF defense force acting like people wanted DF shutdown over this?

 

[Eeyore]

There are ways to let someone know without being a total jerk. Dark1X doesn't deserve to be treated that way. If anything, the fact he brought up something less significant in the context of another game should have let you all know that he simply didn't know about this. Not everyone lurks on this board 24/7 and sees this stuff. While I am all about condemning the sort of behavior both the developers and the publishers exhibited, we need to be careful to inform people without ALWAYS assuming they're coming from bad faith.

Why are you guys picking on Dark so bad? DF are huge PC enthusiasts. And this game is significant for us for a couple of reasons. It's a damn good game and it's a BUILD engine game in 2019! it's interesting seeing what they were able to do from a technical perspective with such an old engine.

If you don't want to support the game due to devs political views that's good for you and you have your right to do that. But don't go telling dark or anyone how they should handle their job!

Besides if era was to be consistent, several games from Japanese darlings should not be discussed here.

Keep up the good work dark!!

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Political views? Oh fuck right off with that. It's bigotry plain and simple. The people that they punched down on are some of the most looked down upon, discriminated against, assaulted people on the planet.

The difference between games like this and Persona 5, which I assume is one of the games you're referring to, is that the developers themselves doubled down with textual evidence. There's a big difference and even so I think that P5 should be criticized even more harshly for how it depicts gay people. Atlus JP in general is trash in this regard when we look at other games like Catherine.

 

[Snowybreak]

From the responses you'd think people had burned Dark's house down, not that like two people had called his support problematic.

If you want to discuss games with NO POLITICS ALLOWED there's a shitty forum for that.

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Oh yeah, the way that the push back is being overblown is aggravating. It's not like a bunch of people came in the thread to deride him. But it does feel like a collection of users quickly jumped at the chance to defend the developers.

 

[martincrimson87]

Political views? Oh fuck right off with that. It's bigotry plain and simple.

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My bad. I'll update my original post

 

[piratethingy]

Oh yeah, the way that the push back is being overblown is aggravating. It's not like a bunch of people came in the thread to deride him. But it does feel like a collection of users quickly jumped at the chance to defend the developers.

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They're just patriots defending the right to free speech lmfao

 

[Eeyore]

My bad. I'll update my original post

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My question is do you actually believe that? I don't care if you update your post, I care what you believe. There are political beliefs (I think we should have healthcare for all) that I'm passionate about, but the messages I saw from the devs weren't about politics, they were simply hateful and fearful of people they don't understand.

 

[zoodoo]

This thread makes me so frustrated with this place.

If you watch John's content or ever read his posts there should be ONE conclusion you jump to from him talking about Ion Fury. It's a build engine game in 2020 on modern platforms, and he finds that fascinating.

Jumping to the accusations or insinuations that because he likes a game or makes content about something with problematic people involved means he endorses that or doesn't care about it is short-sided and not related to the conversation at all. This thread isn't even about that shit, it's about the technical performance of the game and John came in to talk about *that*.

I hate how it feels like every thread on this board can feel like a minefield where someone is just waiting for the chance to start tearing anyone down at any minute over something barely related to what they're even talking about.

John's a great person, this behavior drives people away from this board.

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Couldnt have said it better myself.

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People are gonna post about the devs comments in this thread even if it's not related to the subject just the same way the devs posted bigoted comments on the game discord. Regarding John, he's not at fault for his initial video as he clearly stated he wasn't aware of the issues. Now he knows and can just put a disclaimer just as he's done in the past and move on to the technical stuff. He's a valuable member here and produce some great contents on youtube and improving that wouldn't hurt

 

[Taker34]

From the responses you'd think people had burned Dark's house down, not that like two people had called his support problematic.

If you want to discuss games with NO POLITICS ALLOWED there's a shitty forum for that.

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Aye, just acknowledging publicly that the developer and publisher did something terrible is more than anyone can ask for.

I'm personally deeply disappointed when someone makes videos about a game or developer with problematic content (be it racism, sexism or homophobia) and pretends nothing happened. It's always possible someone genuinely doesn't know and that's fine but more often than not, some content creators do research, know about it and actively decide to bury their heads in the sand for a one or more reasons. When Kingdom Come was in the news people could at least being up the excuse "it's just one guy in a bigger team" but with Ion Fury this is a systematic problem from within the involved parties. So I'm more than happy about any content creator who is transparent and brings up the fact that there is an issue by simply raising awareness. At least do it for all the minorities and people who have to struggle with so much shit on a daily basis, just because of the fact that they exist.

 

[Patsy]

Ok, I will not buy It then. I'm sick of ignorant developers that perpetuate this type of behaviour. I'm not giving my money to people that hate who I am.

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I now remember there was thread about it here with those disgusting Discord group messages. Thanks for the reminder, almost bought this game yesterday on Switch but decided to wait and see about performance reports.

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Sure thing. Initially, when it first released, I was super excited for it myself until they didn't even try to hide their transphobia, homophobia & ableism. It really didn't help that their apology was like one day later completely useless as they doubled down on their shit takes once again & the publisher 3DRealms didn't do shit either & instead just banned all mentions of their transphobia etc. on the Discord channel & said they supported the Devs. God, it was such a shitshow.

There's definitely cases where even I try to look past what someone on the team said if it's only one person (like Reuben Langdon being in DMCV despite being a QAnon nutjob & thinking BLM wasn't needed among other fucked up shit). Sure, it still ruined Dante for me, but at least the devs didn't want me & others like me dead unlike the Ion Fury ones.

I don't fault anyone for not knowing about it & buying the game before that, but the "separating art from the artist" shtick others like to pull rings hollow when the art itself even has homophobic shit in it & when the whole fucking devteam is full of people that are incredibly, incredibly homophobic, transphobic & ableist. As someone who's nonbinary & a lesbian, someone who's sick of getting told my existence is "politics" - people are god damn hypocrites if they say they support us, but then turn around & buy games made by people who want us dead while knowing about it.

 

[martincrimson87]

My question is do you actually believe that? I don't care if you update your post, I care what you believe. There are political beliefs (I think we should have healthcare for all) that I'm passionate about, but the messages I saw from the devs weren't about politics, they were simply hateful and fearful of people they don't understand.

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I don't believe that. We all should we treated with respect. I am not a native speaker hence the misunderstanding

 

[Deleted member 3017]

From the responses you'd think people had burned Dark's house down, not that like two people had called his support problematic.

If you want to discuss games with NO POLITICS ALLOWED there's a shitty forum for that.

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Eh, I'm all in favor of political discussion here and I'm all in favor for calling out the devs of Ion Fury and encouraging outlets like Digital Foundry to either stop covering the game entirely or discuss its problematic elements in their coverage.

What I'm not in favor of is shaming and driving away a genuinely good member of our community, by accusing him of supporting bigotry or not caring about it. There are better ways to get your point across and a lot of you are really bad at doing so.

 

[martincrimson87]

What I'm not in favor of is shaming and driving away a genuinely good member of our community, by accusing him of supporting bigotry or not caring about it. There are better ways to get your point across and a lot of you are really bad at doing so.

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My thoughts exactly. The DF team are among the most valuable contributors on this forum and I would hate to see them go.

 

[Eeyore]

I don't believe that. We all should we treated with respect. I am not a native speaker hence the misunderstanding

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Okay fair enough, thanks for clarifying. Can't imagine wading into a conversation like this in my non-native language. I might do something similar to the time when I said "Estoy embarazado" to mean I'm embarrassed when it actually means I'm pregnant.

 

[piratethingy]

What I'm not in favor of is shaming and driving away a genuinely good member of our community, by accusing him of supporting bigotry or not caring about it. There are better ways to get your point across and a lot of you are really bad at doing so.

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Like I said, I went back. Before Dark posted acknowledging the issues with the devs, two posters pointed it out. One called his support disappointing and the other problematic.

Where is this shaming??

 

[Jedi2016]

Can we get a title change, please? This is obviously no longer a technical discussion.

 

[Snowybreak]

Eh, I'm all in favor of political discussion here and I'm all in favor for calling out the devs of Ion Fury and encouraging outlets like Digital Foundry to either stop covering the game entirely or discuss its problematic elements in their coverage.

What I'm not in favor of is shaming and driving away a genuinely good member of our community, by accusing him of supporting bigotry or not caring about it. There are better ways to get your point across and a lot of you are really bad at doing so.

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How many people are actually doing that here though?

 

[Deleted member 3017]

Like I said, I went back. Before Dark posted acknowledging the issues with the devs, two posters pointed it out. One called his support disappointing and the other problematic.

Where is this shaming??

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It's very disappointing that you continue to signal boost these devs by producing more videos for Ion Fury on Digital Foundry. It makes the statement that you either agree with their views, or that you don't care

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......

How many people are actually doing that here though?

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I'm not sure. If you're not one to imply these things about dark1x and simply have an issue with the game being covered by DF, then I'm not talking about you. As I said, I have zero issue with people being critical of the game, the devs, or coverage of it.

 

[Irminsul]

Like I said, I went back. Before Dark posted acknowledging the issues with the devs, two posters pointed it out. One called his support disappointing and the other problematic.

Where is this shaming??

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While also insisting that the only possible explanations could be he either doesn't care or actually approves of the devs stance (instead of the much more reasonable "he just didn't know"), which you conveniently left out.

 

[Deleted member 7279]

Like I said, I went back. Before Dark posted acknowledging the issues with the devs, two posters pointed it out. One called his support disappointing and the other problematic.

Where is this shaming??

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Whether that was the intent or not, it is exactly what happened, judging by one of his posts on the first page.

And normally when you say someone is disappointing or that their behavior is problematic, you absolutely are trying to passive aggressively get them to change it. The connotation behind those two words is very clear.

 

[piratethingy]

While also insisting that the only possible explanations could be he either doesn't care or actually approves of the devs stance (instead of the much more reasonable "he just didn't know"), which you conveniently left out.

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You mean the part that he edited in once he realized, that you're conveniently leaving out?

Sure, I'll give you guys that one person overreached (he admitted as much as well).

Still not seeing the widespread shaming.

 

[Eeyore]

Like I said, I went back. Before Dark posted acknowledging the issues with the devs, two posters pointed it out. One called his support disappointing and the other problematic.

Where is this shaming??

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There is a particular post that I think went in to attack him specifically rather than just his support for the developers. It contrasted his lack of saying anything on this particular subject vs. mentioning a conflict between a publisher and a developer in another video. Again, we do not need to assume that everyone is simply a jerk. Give people a chance to be one. The assholes are going to make themselves known on here for the most part.

Dark's been in this community forever and I have never seen him post something that I felt was offensive or inflammatory or bigoted. He approached this subject like many others, from the technical side, because that's his job. Dark works his ass off and there generally are quite a few people, whether console warriors, or others that seem to attack him and he takes it personally (and I have to say I would too). He simply didn't know, now he does, and he rightfully was aghast at the information.

If we're going to blast people for not being empathetic, I think a little bit of empathy is warranted for people like dark and Dictator that go out of their way to engage with us even though there are not an insignificant amount of people that aren't very nice to them.

 

[Zeta Ori]

Eh, I'm all in favor of political discussion here and I'm all in favor for calling out the devs of Ion Fury and encouraging outlets like Digital Foundry to either stop covering the game entirely or discuss its problematic elements in their coverage.

What I'm not in favor of is shaming and driving away a genuinely good member of our community, by accusing him of supporting bigotry or not caring about it. There are better ways to get your point across and a lot of you are really bad at doing so.

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"A lot of you are really bad at doing so."
"A lot of you-"
"A lot"

*quotes one person*

🤔

 

[Deleted member 2620]

I love DF's videos, I think Dark1x is a great poster, and I think it's reasonable to ask for a Devil Engine style disclaimer on coverage of this game. ...Which is a particularly fascinating one, technologically.

 

[piratethingy]

"A lot of you are really bad at doing so."
"A lot of you-"
"A lot"

*quotes one peson*

🤔

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And the one person he quoted wasn't even a part of the two people who actually said anything to Dark

 

[Deleted member 3017]

"A lot of you are really bad at doing so."
"A lot of you-"
"A lot"

*quotes one peson*

🤔

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My point isn't just limited to this particular thread.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

And the one person he quoted wasn't even a part of the two people who actually said anything to Dark

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Yes it was. The quote was a direct response to him.

Edit - sorry for the double post

 

[Irminsul]

You mean the part that he edited in once he realized, that you're conveniently leaving out?

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Yes, but that happened much later and Dark1x was obviously reacting to the original posting (as well as others reacting to this, and so on).

There wasn't "widespread" shaming, but I never claimed there was. It was a pretty hefty and baseless accusation nonetheless. Personally, I'd totally understand if that would make one post less on this forum.

 

[androvsky]

And the one person he quoted wasn't even a part of the two people who actually said anything to Dark

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So you're saying that's three people so far in this thread?

 

[piratethingy]

Yes it was. The quote was a direct response to him.

Edit - sorry for the double post

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No, it was a direct response to me, and I never said anything bad to Dark at all. I have no problem with him in any way, and I am 100% sure he just didn't know of the context around this game.

 

[Snowybreak]

My point isn't just limited to this particular thread.

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So? Fuckin bellyache to the mods if it's such a widespread issue instead of trying to blow this incident out of proportion.

 

[Shawt21]

Great job era, instead of attacking the shitty devs responsible for the content, you attack someone not aware of the situation, just trying to do their job. 👍🏾

 

[piratethingy]

I'm out. Don't want to give the impression that I'm hating on Dark or anything because I'm arguing with people here. Games are always political ✌️

 

[Tendo]

I immediately noticed the switch version felt "weird." Not smooth and kind of jumpy. I'm really sensitive to frame issues, but I noticed something was up.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

So? Fuckin bellyache to the mods if it's such a widespread issue instead of trying to blow this incident out of proportion.

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Why would I report it? That seems extreme.

Anyway, I should probably take a break from Era. Have a great weekend.

 

[M.J.]

Oh yeah, the way that the push back is being overblown is aggravating. It's not like a bunch of people came in the thread to deride him. But it does feel like a collection of users quickly jumped at the chance to defend the developers.

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They're just patriots defending the right to free speech lmfao

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Ding. Yep.

Truth be told, most or "a lot" of people are not like "Era". MANY people want to say offensive jokes in private discords with their online gamer buddies.
Only a few are bold and tactful enough to genuinely call somebody out. Not to be confused with concern trolling.

Free speech is actually being able to call out bigotry and bullshit without getting dogpiled or being called sensitive.
If you feel shame from being falsely associated with bigotry, that's on you, not the person who asked you to clarify whether you support bigots or not.

Getting accused of signal boosting is not the same as being "shamed". Definitely is not the same as being accused of supporting bigots, which isn't the case here.

People were generally respectful here when engaging the topic. Its the handful of posters in response saying "this PC culture has gone too far/leave john alone" that make it into an "issue". Yeah, it's unfortunate we can't just talk about games in a "vacuum" in 2020.

Three users does not = Era. Even if we share similar views, we are not a hivemind. I'm a hetero male and I have my own set of views, which is similar to most people here. Which is WHY i post here and not NeoGAF or Reddit. You know what kind of shit is tolerated on those sites in between talks of "games".

Great job era, instead of attacking the shitty devs responsible for the content, you attack someone not aware of the situation, just trying to do their job. 👍🏾

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Such a travesty.

 

[OldDirtyGamer]

I hope the DF guys continue posting here. They have some of the most interesting discussion here and make fantastic content .

Don't let people on the internet bully you out, guys.

 

[Dark1x]

I finished this video already a few hours ago. I got so much interesting information about console optimization and I really want to share it - I couldn't believe the details about what made porting this game so difficult. The port studio that worked on this is entirely separate from the original team as well.

It's a tough time for me right now so this stuff hits hard. I didn't realize the scope of it until now as I've been in and out of posting for chunks of time. I'll keep it in mind going forward.

 

[Zeta Ori]

My point isn't just limited to this particular thread.

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But this is the thread you chose to make that point in, correct?

Seems a bit odd then, to try and make a point that's not true in the very thread your attempting to make it in.

~

I can't speak for others, but I watch a lot of digital foundry content and until I learned about the devs, was also really interested in this game so this is a discussion that I'll weigh in on because it's close to home.

The truth is this is a discussion that deserves a lot more nuance than it's going to get because of the topics at play. The people who are coming in here to jump on others for bringing this up to dark need to realize something:

It is painful to be a part of these communities that face this level of bigotry and discrimination out in the open, and then see someone whose content you may enjoy who doesn't engage in said behavior supporting people and products that do.

Do you know why? For me, it is because on some level there is this constant realization that some people can truly live in a reality where such bigotry can be ignored in the first place. For me, it's not about if a particular person didn't do enough to know better, it's about the pain that comes with realizing someone could just not know while covering one of these products at all.

We aren't talking about console war fanboy bullshit either, this is hate. And that's not something you can expect people to just brush off when talking about something like this. The reality is (regardless of how you feel about it) that by covering the devs and this game like DF has, they are signal boosting people who want a world where many members of this forum wouldn't exist. That deserves to be discussed, and you have the rest of the internet to go to if that's an issue.

With all that said, this doesn't have to be a moment of shame, but of learning. If what Dark is saying is true, then I don't think anyone here wants to hold anything against him or DF, it's just a really sensitive topic that brings out emotions, and I don't think that's wrong given the subject. If you are going to participate in a forum that is home to the communities that are being attacked, don't be surprised if they want to talk about it. Just try and do better where you can, that's all.

 

[Rodya]

It's very disappointing that you continue to signal boost these devs by producing more videos for Ion Fury on Digital Foundry. It makes the statement that you either agree with their views, or that you don't care.
And you can't feign ignorance, because you were already called out for it after you made an extra spot for the game in your "top 11" games of 2019.

EDIT: Since people keep quoting this post, I did follow up here and here. This was perhaps too harsh, especially when it now seems that John was simply unaware.

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Yeah, it was. Before shaming him you could've asked him if he was aware of the situation. You start making assumptions like these and you could end up hurting people for no real reason. I mean, John's always been extremely polite and humble, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Moreover, it's pretty obvious he was interested in Ion Fury because of the tech behind it and game design, not because of shitty bigoted opinions. C'mon now.

I've been following DF for years now and the whole team is very professional. Keep it up John.

 

[Vilam]

How the hell does anyone release a game without an option to invert the camera controls in this day and age?

 

[OldDirtyGamer]

Isn't inversion available on system level on an xbox?

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Is it ? I loved that feature on 360 but wasn't aware xbox 1 did the same thing

 

[medyej]

I bought this game during early access, but had i known of the devs transphobia i would have never gave the devs any of my money. I think the least Dark can do is provide a disclaimer for those that are not aware.

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Yep, same here. I was pissed I wasn't able to get a refund for it. Fuck these devs.

Also in regard to the Darx1x situation, this was brought up during the original flare up of this stuff iirc. His videos on this game are completely glowing and basically great advertisement for the game, probably the best they've gotten with the small budget for the game. So I don't think it's out of hand to talk about the shitty things they've said and the fact that the videos are in fact boosting them and their product that contains homophobic messages in it.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

I finished this video already a few hours ago. I got so much interesting information about console optimization and I really want to share it - I couldn't believe the details about what made porting this game so difficult. The port studio that worked on this is entirely separate from the original team as well.

It's a tough time for me right now so this stuff hits hard. I didn't realize the scope of it until now as I've been in and out of posting for chunks of time. I'll keep it in mind going forward.

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I'm looking forward to the video!

 

[hachikoma]

I'm trans and a huge fan of Jon and DF. I'm excited to nerd out over the minutiae of the modified engine when the video is available. Fuck the devs.

 

[TheChronic2060]

Looking forward to DF video on this, finally a console version.

Would be a great addition to game pass on the xbox.

 

[Jayuk]

I finished this video already a few hours ago. I got so much interesting information about console optimization and I really want to share it - I couldn't believe the details about what made porting this game so difficult. The port studio that worked on this is entirely separate from the original team as well.

It's a tough time for me right now so this stuff hits hard. I didn't realize the scope of it until now as I've been in and out of posting for chunks of time. I'll keep it in mind going forward.

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I have always loved the work that you and the entirety of DF have done. Thank you, and I look forward to watching the video.

 

[Atolm]

I finished this video already a few hours ago. I got so much interesting information about console optimization and I really want to share it - I couldn't believe the details about what made porting this game so difficult. The port studio that worked on this is entirely separate from the original team as well.

It's a tough time for me right now so this stuff hits hard. I didn't realize the scope of it until now as I've been in and out of posting for chunks of time. I'll keep it in mind going forward.

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I want to see it. I imagine the game is super dependant on single core performance,but even so when I played it last year I think it used like 15% of one of my cores at 144fps.

 

[The Lord of Cereal]

Wait you can't invert the sticks? So by default is it up on the stick means looking up? Or is it by default flicking up is looking down? I play with inverted looks and I don't want it to be where I can't enable it