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III-V

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
I will gladly take Nanite visuals 1080p @ 60fps if possible on console. Normal Blu-ray image quality still looks great and Nanite provides image stability equivalent to pre-rendered footage.
Yeah, this is where I am at as well. With models looking this good, 1080p resolution is fine. Visuals look incredible, although not as sharp as it would be at 4K. Still prefer this highly detailed world over sharper, less detailed world at higher resolution.
 

clintar

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
88
sidebar - not every computing difference is an advancement. Some times, things are just different.
Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying you don't see the much faster storage solution as an advancement? Sorry, I'm trying to understand where you are coming from here. Really sounds like downplaying. Is it because you don't think there will be much to gain from it?
 

supernormal

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,147
I will gladly take Nanite visuals 1080p @ 60fps if possible on console. Normal Blu-ray image quality still looks great and Nanite provides image stability equivalent to pre-rendered footage.

I'll take it at 30 even. Like you said, blu-ray quality. Film quality CGI at 1080p looks way better than the games we have now at 4k.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,995
I didn't miss it. This community is a niche. For better and for worse. Obviously more responsive games are better, very few people will say otherwise, I think concentrating on JUST these aspects to be myopic.
What's more interesting about that thread, the poll choice with the least amount of votes?

"Full, uncompromised 4K resolution! (skip this if you're fine with 1440p +reconstruction techniques)"

This got the lowest votes. Start with that, and you get a better picture about what the community wants.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
Epic really needs to break the demo down step-by-step, and go down into the details on how the tech actually works, otherwise it all might was well be magic. Or maybe they don't, because they got everybody talking about it. Maybe this was their master plan....
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
While it doesn't look as good as the tech demo obviously, AC Valhalla looks like almost a generational leap to me against AC Odyssey going on the small snippets of gameplay we've seen. I imagine it's native 4k, Ultra PC settings and maybe even some forms of RT combined with many improvements to the engine and assets.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
While it doesn't look as good as the tech demo obviously, AC Valhalla looks like almost a generational leap to me against AC Odyssey going on the small snippets of gameplay we've seen. I imagine it's native 4k, Ultra PC settings and maybe even some forms of RT combined with many improvements to the engine and assets.
What on earth are you talking about? The only gameplay weve seen looks exactly like Odyssey.
 

kungfuian

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
278
This demo was amazing from a technical standpoint but also left me a bit disappointed because it was so focused on mostly static stone and rock materials.

Wonder how long until we get to see it applied to more 'alive' worlds. Like how does it handle the dense moving vegetation of a jungle with light moving through the canopy, rolling clouds over grassy plains, sun shining on a streaming river?

Can't wait to see more examples of it in action.
 

Bru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
170
UK
Possibly. Ubisoft inhouse studios are not who youd look to for any type of visual pioneering at this point.

Oh come on, that's insulting.

It would seem some have forgotten how good Origins, Odyssey even The Division 2 look and scale on current hardware, considering their scope.

Ubisoft inhouse studios (like many developers) are set to do incredible things next generation.
 

Pancracio17

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,774
Wait so nanite applying the "1 tri per pixel" approach mean that the tri count is always constant if the resolution is constant? (assuming the models havo so many tris theyre smaller than a pixel)?
 

KrAzEd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,015
Brooklyn, NY
While it doesn't look as good as the tech demo obviously, AC Valhalla looks like almost a generational leap to me against AC Odyssey going on the small snippets of gameplay we've seen. I imagine it's native 4k, Ultra PC settings and maybe even some forms of RT combined with many improvements to the engine and assets.

We haven't seen any gameplay at all. That being said I expect the game to be a looker, but a generational leap over odyssey would surprise me, especially considering it's a cross gen game.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Oh come on, that's insulting.

It would seem some have forgotten how good Origins, Odyssey even The Division 2 look and scale on current hardware, considering their scope.

Ubisoft inhouse studios (like many developers) are set to do incredible things next generation.
Division 2 is not in house. I dont consider any AC after Unity to be leading edge In any visual categories.
 

MaulerX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,693
This demo was amazing from a technical standpoint but also left me a bit disappointed because it was so focused on mostly static stone and rock materials.

Wonder how long until we get to see it applied to more 'alive' worlds. Like how does it handle the dense moving vegetation of a jungle with light moving through the canopy, rolling clouds over grassy plains, sun shining on a streaming river?

Can't wait to see more examples of it in action.



Curious about this as well.

Just look at Starwars Battlefront. This type of terrain lends itself well as it's easier to make look lifelike. Everything is dead and nothing going on. Makes sense for a demo as you can just crank everything up to make that terrain look super impressive.
 

FuturaBold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,521
It will be interesting to see how this new tech will look on a game that's not photorealistic, for example, Kingdom Hearts.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Regarding The Division 2? Point taken.

As for any AC game after Unity, to not be considered leading edge (at release) in ANY visual category?

I have to disagree.

Which categories do you believe any of the inhouse Ubi games(AC, Far Cry, Watch Dogs, The Crew etc) were visual pioneers in?
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,903
It will be interesting to see how this new tech will look on a game that's not photorealistic, for example, Kingdom Hearts.

I mean the same way really. They can choose to have really detailed areas in cartoony games if they wish and don't think it'll clash with the art direction. That said KH still has areas like Pirates which are more photo realistic, so you can imagine the detail they can put in a world like that already.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,676



Always trust people working in dev teams. The ext technical art director of ND know how it work.

Funny how we had people doubting these devs and their excitement for PS5 regarding the really fast SSD + Hardware-accelerated I/O Pipeline. It's almost like they are the people we should be trusting when it comes to what is possible given advances in hardware and system architecture. And it's almost also like Cerny is an amazing console system architect who probably deserves some trust and respect when he says something is going to make a big difference or is a game changer.
 

Bru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
170
UK
Which categories do you believe any of the inhouse Ubi games(AC, Far Cry, Watch Dogs, The Crew etc) were visual pioneers in?

Far Cry 5 on Xbox One X was a great example of leading edge graphical/engine scaling across multiple platforms.

Material quality and texture detail were outstanding. Ubisoft Montreal/Toronto achieved a native 4k HDR resolution (3840x2160 with TAA) over 5 times that of the base Microsoft console.

For a cross platform console title in 2018, FC5 was stunning.
 
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icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Far Cry 5 on Xbox One X was a great example of leading edge graphical/engine scaling across multiple platforms.

Material quality and texture detail were outstanding. Ubisoft Montreal/Toronto achieved a native 4k HDR resolution (3840x2160 with TAA) over 5 times that of the base Microsoft console.

For a cross platform console title in 2018, FC5 was stunning.
Plenty of X games are native 4k.

RDR 2, Days Gone, HZD all look much better than Far Cry. I could list many more games but im trying to limit comparisons to games with a similar type of environment.
 

Bru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
170
UK
Plenty of X games are native 4k.

RDR 2, Days Gone, HZD all look much better than Far Cry. I could list many more games but im trying to limit comparisons to games with a similar type of environment.

RDR2 released seven months after FC5. Days Gone (launched 12 months later) and HZD were developed, at the time, for PlayStation 4 consoles only.

Aspects of Far Cry 5, when released in early 2018 on One X, represented the leading edge of cross platform open world visual design.

In my humble opinion.

Will leave this alone now, for fear of derailing the thread.
 
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Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
Possibly. Ubisoft inhouse studios are not who youd look to for any type of visual pioneering at this point.
That's just plain false, TLoU2's motion matching that's making people go crazy was actually developed and then shared by Ubisoft.
And Massive entertainment is Ubisoft inhouse, Snowdrop is likely gonna be Ubisoft's go to engine this coming generation.

The vertex colouring technique to make reactive foliage that you saw in so many games this gen, including ND games....was also first seen in AC4. The water rendering Ubisoft has is also quite a bit ahead of anyone else in the industry, and it's not just about the waves in middle of ocean but also the waves at the shore...I don't think I've seen a game that actually has waves with crests falling off gradually as it reaches shore. You could see this in AC Odyssey.
 
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Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
I mean, watching such a demo on YouTube with the typical encoding makes it hard to tell resolution anyway but frame rate was definitely easy to see.
The thing is, the resolution was 4K.
It's reconstructed 4K from a base of 1440P, but for some reason people keep talking as if it was flat 1440P.
1440P reconstructed to 4K would be more demanding than 1440P native by quite a fair margin.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
The thing is, the resolution was 4K.
It's reconstructed 4K from a base of 1440P, but for some reason people keep talking as if it was flat 1440P.
1440P reconstructed to 4K would be more demanding than 1440P native by quite a fair margin.
In ue the temporal reconstruction costs just a bit more than TAA. So it is actually really cheap!

Techniques devws in ubisoft games tend to be pioneering: motion matching, froxel fog, gpu drive Pipeline (which actually is related to nanite), and much much more. Their engine teams make incredible Stuff, only Thing is that people do not view their game visuals highly for what I assume are unrelated reasons
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
I'm wondering, they didn't put much animated things here like vegetation etc.. But if they did, as those would use a different tech than nanite, how much would they have to scale down the nanite objects to make room for the rest..
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
In ue the temporal reconstruction costs just a bit more than TAA. So it is actually really cheap!

Techniques devws in ubisoft games tend to be pioneering: motion matching, froxel fog, gpu drive Pipeline (which actually is related to nanite), and much much more. Their engine teams make incredible Stuff, only Thing is that people do not view their game visuals highly for what I assume are unrelated reasons
The tech never results in something top tier.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
In ue the temporal reconstruction costs just a bit more than TAA. So it is actually really cheap!

Techniques devws in ubisoft games tend to be pioneering: motion matching, froxel fog, gpu drive Pipeline (which actually is related to nanite), and much much more. Their engine teams make incredible Stuff, only Thing is that people do not view their game visuals highly for what I assume are unrelated reasons
Probably because, being such large, by-the-numbers open worlds, they cannot build the crafted compositions and unique environments that other games do.
Their tech is great, but the artistry is lacking and does a disservice to the tech.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
Probably because, being such large, by-the-numbers open worlds, they cannot build the crafted compositions and unique environments that other games do.
Their tech is great, but the artistry is lacking and does a disservice to the tech.
The Division, Watch Dogs and Wildlands beg to differ, Wildlands especially has so much variation in environments and biomes it isn't even funny, it's basically a miniaturised Bolivia. Additionally, games like Origins and Odyssey are set in a period of time where you'd only see one type of architecture be prominent, you weren't going to get several different styles of building in ancient Greece. And Egypt basically had 2 styles which would be Greek architecture, and ancient egypt architecture (which was ancient even by the time Origins is set in).

But what is there, is immaculately modelled with a lot of care and attention put into the world, things make sense in the way that there's a logical reason for something to exist, you won't find a farm without a river stream, you won't find a quarry without a mine and waste dump with workers etc etc (Karak from ACG talks about these in his "walking the walk" videos for these games) which is why they were able to do the discovery tour mode for those games. Them being "by the numbers" games (which I totally disagree with)...does not mean they are not crafted with care and attention in mind.

Long video (it's timestamped so atleast watch it for 4-5 mins) but it completely deconstructs the argument that these worlds are not made with artistry. Their world is full of activities where the NPCs interact with the environment in a logical and appropriate manner. It gives their games a lot of life and unique look.


 
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noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Dictator great video, probably the only tech heavy video that I've watched that I actually understand everything on it. Just a suggestion, you could make a DF vids focused on the techniques used on games today and I'll be all over that.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
The Division, Watch Dogs and Wildlands beg to differ, Wildlands especially has so much variation in environments and biomes it isn't even funny, it's basically a miniaturised Bolivia. Additionally, games like Origins and Odyssey are set in a period of time where you'd only see one type of architecture be prominent, you weren't going to get several different styles of building in ancient Greece. And Egypt basically had 2 styles which would be Greek architecture, and ancient egypt architecture (which was ancient even by the time Origins is set in).

But what is there, is immaculately modelled with a lot of care and attention put into the world, things make sense in the way that there's a logical reason for something to exist, you won't find a farm without a river stream, you won't find a quarry without a mine and waste dump with workers etc etc (Karak from ACG talks about these in his "walking the walk" videos for these games) which is why they were able to do the discovery tour mode for those games. Them being "by the numbers" games (which I totally disagree with)...does not mean they are not crafted with care and attention in mind.

Long video (it's timestamped so atleast watch it for 4-5 mins) but it completely deconstructs the argument that these worlds are not made with artistry. Their world is full of activities where the NPCs interact with the environment in a logical and appropriate manner. It gives their games a lot of life and unique look.



AC origins/odyssey are decent looking games but the materials are very inconsistent and too much of the world has a plastic look. Same for textures. Then theres the janky animation which is very offputting.

AC Syndicate just looks bad. The materials are completely wrong and and often glow blindingly white when hit by any direct sunlight.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,320
Is there a reason why the character model itself looks relatively unspectacular? Like is this tech better used for environments? When they switch to the nanite triangle view the character also disappears, so maybe she's not done with nanite?