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Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
Gunblade feels very necessary on her, and IE is a must on any carry assassin, IMO.

I do really like the shadow HoJ, though, maybe even over Blue Buff. It's not like she's got trouble casting anyway, it's usually one auto and oop here we go again; the way her spell works, she does a fuckton of damage, but mostly doesn't kill anybody at first, which means she gets a lot of value out of the Shadow HoJ.
 

pronk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,644
I've been playing a lot of dawnbringer Karma in hyper roll. Hyper roll feels like you need to play differently though, I seem to get stuck around mid game with a weak comp and not enough gold to roll out of it. Might switch back to regular games for a while.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
I had a game where I got way too dizzy even on Stage 2 with about a six different pairs without any idea what I would do next. I wanted to try that Renewer Re-Roll comp that I've been seeing in all my games but didn't have the items for it. I annoyingly got too strong and won a game right in the middle of Stage 2 so didn't even have a loss streak. Bad econ, awful early game comp, found a Katarina after Krugs. Decided to build IE because I had literally nothing else after Stage 3 item shop.

I had 28 HP going into Wolves but thankfully got a second tear.

Levelled to 7 at 4-1, rolled and found Katarina 2. Won a few fights finally, but also lost and had to desperation roll to 0 to 3* her (I had a Neeko's help as well), found 4 of the 5 I needed :( Somehow survived a few more rounds and then hit. 14 hp remaining. Won almost every fight after that. Lost one to a ZZrot so I survived. Then finally lost to the same player. Result?

m3f7BYT.png


I built Nightbringer Spat to function like a pseudo GA to keep her safe (procs rather then KOing her if anything tries to oneshot her) and even gives a damage boost because I had no components for gunblade or GA and needed something to keep me alive for at least one fight. It worked out quite well tbh. It was a Vladimir in until I saw a Darius who I just figured was better. I threw Taric in by levelling to 8 for more frontline, knight, and hey maybe Katarina would be in his circle when he cast? Nocturne + Ivern instead of Khazix + Taric would've been better but I didn't have the money to hold Nocturne while trying to get Kat. Viego + Ryze would also have been better than Khazix + Taric but I never saw Viego.

I would've been satisfied with 7th, happy with 6th, and joyous at 5th in this game. Had to stop playing after this game because I was so on edge for too long x.x

Katarina is my queen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Went mostly skirmisher with a splash of assassin's (kha with skirmisher trait) then moved into 3 ironclad on top but lost because someone else threw 3 ironclad in their build of god king renewer
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
The only time I've had success with Spellweaver is with Hellion. Ziggs with AP items pumps insane damage. Never gotten the items to do the Statik Shiv build.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
Part of it is just that most of the spellweavers have a bunch of their power budget in utility; Zyra stun, Brand MR shred, Viktor shields... Ziggs and Vel'Koz are the only straight-up damage dealers. Vel can carry, though, so maybe slapping the items on Ziggs and trying to survive until Vel'Koz could work.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Finally got out of gold 3 after nearly 20 games. Finally got Skirmisher to work and got 2nd with it, then finished 3rd with a Dawnbringer Karma build.

Edit: Won my next game with Redeemed and now I'm 3LP from Gold 1.
 
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Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Very excited for Wednesday to hopefully stop there from being three Vayne comps in every game.

Though I may or may not have been one of them in two of my games today...

It's insane you don't even need to roll for the 3* for it to be this powerful. I'm assuming they're going to re-work the damage bonuses on Forgotten to have lower base but higher additional per shadow item. Though if they do that, I think they also need to work on making shadow items easier to get? But I'm okay with Forgotten being underpowered over what it is right now -.-

The changes coming up look pretty massive. They're looking to make 3 costs relevant in the game again which should help the Stage 4 part of the game. The Aphelios adjustment should be that his spell can crit now making IE / Last Whisper more useful on him and Vayne should be changing the interaction with Shadow Jewelled Gauntlet so she doesn't get the effect for free.

 
Oct 27, 2017
5,953
Las Vegas
Tried the Coven/Renewer slow roll build for the first time and managed to win pretty handedly. Got a Revenant spat off carousel that I threw on Vlad which was super dirty. Really cool comp but I'm going to assume its probably dead based off the upcoming nerfs.

Curious to see how much they buff Abomination though.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
Finally hit diamond again and done with ranked. I got in on that new Sett 3 star build about a day before people knew about it and just coasted the last few ranks. Feels good, man.
 

IHaveIce

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,746
Very excited for Wednesday to hopefully stop there from being three Vayne comps in every game.

Though I may or may not have been one of them in two of my games today...

It's insane you don't even need to roll for the 3* for it to be this powerful. I'm assuming they're going to re-work the damage bonuses on Forgotten to have lower base but higher additional per shadow item. Though if they do that, I think they also need to work on making shadow items easier to get? But I'm okay with Forgotten being underpowered over what it is right now -.-

The changes coming up look pretty massive. They're looking to make 3 costs relevant in the game again which should help the Stage 4 part of the game. The Aphelios adjustment should be that his spell can crit now making IE / Last Whisper more useful on him and Vayne should be changing the interaction with Shadow Jewelled Gauntlet so she doesn't get the effect for free.


riot again forcing a new meta instead of balancing.

I can already tell what the next metacomp will be
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Ended up spending more time in gold 3 than I did the rest of gold combined. Got back to plat 4 with a Skirmisher build.
 

Bob White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
I'm still waiting for people to see how insane Redemption is. Two of those fuckers on Pantheon or Nunu feels like it makes your front line unkillable.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Yeah, I feel like Redemption is super slept on because people keep thinking about how it worked last set. It might also be because people want to greed for Frozen Heart with how strong is right now and all the AP comps really want tears for Blue Buff / Shojin / Chalice. I think after the Frozen Heart and Chalice nerfs next patch maybe we'll see it getting used for Redemption as an earlier slam? I know I've been greeding tears a bit lol
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Finally tried a Vayne build and I get rewarded with a lobby where no one else is going it. Came really close between me and a Redeemed build but I ended up winning and got to Plat 3.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Really don't get why so many people try to force the Sett comp. Just does not seem that good to me.

i actually won with it today. Granted I also got a 3 star Taric that game but I was probably gonna win anyways.

Been seeing a lot of Skirmisher builds today as expected. Also a surprising amount of Nightbringer builds. Don't think I've seen a single Vayne build today. Seen a decent amount of Lissandra ones but they're all failed badly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,953
Las Vegas
This comp was super fun, but ended up getting worked over by Kayle at the end unfortunately. Still not sure what items I should be using on my Aboms though. Probably should have stacked more on Nunu in hindsight.

abom.png


i actually won with it today. Granted I also got a 3 star Taric that game but I was probably gonna win anyways.

Been seeing a lot of Skirmisher builds today as expected. Also a surprising amount of Nightbringer builds. Don't think I've seen a single Vayne build today. Seen a decent amount of Lissandra ones but they're all failed badly.

Yeah I mean it's not a terrible comp but it doesn't feel like S tier comp that I'm seeing it being labeled as, though I'm a pretty average player so I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Regardless, I'm avoiding it like the plague because it's been so contested in all my matches.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Hard to say immediately what the S tier comps are now post-patch. I do think Skirmishers are one of them though. The biggest problem with Skirmishers pre-patch was it was really bad early and got destroyed by Vayne and Lissandra comps, as well as Frozen Heart. Now Vayne and Lissandra comps are gone, Frozen Heart got nerfed and they buffed all the early Skirmishers besides Kennen.

I've seen a lot of people today do Nightbringer Yasuo carries today but I feel like they've been hit-or-miss. I thought Assassin's would be really good but I've only seen one person run them today (which they destroyed me with). Redeemed got hit pretty hard with the Leona and Rell nerfs but is still probably good once you get Vel'koz and/or Kayle with items. Riven low key does kind of crazy damage now so Dawnbringer and Legionaire (even with the Mordekaiser nerf) might be S tier.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Yeah, Ranked is always filled with whatever the new guide posted on Reddit is and the Yasuo comp is one NoobOwl who's ranked #1 right now has been playing a lot of too. I tried it in a weekly tournament I like to play in today to see how it would go. I went JG + Runaans + QSS and I did not like it. I think the RFC is too important to give up. Yasuo just died too often without the range.

Did some Normals with some friends and I'd like to figure out how to more consistently go into Kayle carry at the end of the game when I'm healthy enough early. Varus seems super strong early and mid and then honestly seems to take okay losses if you get 6 Redeemed or 4 Knight in? Need to try it out a few more times.

As for Sett, I've been really mixed on him. I think people like him because they find him fun and people like re-roll but I think his power largely comes from Draconic letting you hit him while also pushing levels. In the end I don't think you win unless you also find Heimer 2 or some other backline carry. Draconic has been strong since PBE, just now there's yet another carry on it depending on your items.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
I still think Redeemed is decent but I struggled with it the one time I tried it today. I had awful items for Vel'koz (0 Tears all game) and I hemorrhaged way too much hp early to find a Kayle before going out in 6th. Was also competing with someone else going Redeemed but he didn't have a Kayle yet when I went out.

The thing with Sett builds is if you don't have the items early it can be a struggle. I was lucky with items that game and had an Infinity Edge and Bloodthirster on him after the 2-4 carousel, as well as getting Draconic going at 2-1. I don't think it's a build you can consistently force but if you have the makings of it early it can carry you far.

I've actually done really well with Nightbringer Yasuo carry builds pre-patch. However all the builds I did on him were AP ones. My favorite build for him is probably RFC, Blue Buff and Rabadon.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
There's no one like set 4 Morgana that you can throw a Morello on to blanket the team, especially with set 5 Morgana just getting nerfed. The best option now is probably Rell. Karma and Aphelios would be good but they can't afford to use one if you're using them as a carry. I've seen a decent amount of Morello Katarina's lately but if I'm using her at all I'm using her as a carry. I might start throwing on a Sunfire early since it feels like I start with a vest and belt in 75% of my games.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Aphelios doesn't work for Morello because he doesn't deal magic damage I think. I don't think Rell does damage with her ability? If so that doesn't apply Morello eithe I like it on Katarina if she isn't the carry like you said. I'd been throwing it on Morgana in every comp but haven't seen how she does yet with the new changes. If Ryze has some mana recovery I think he'd be a great holder. Kennan is a great holder as always.

Heimer having a built in anti-heal effect helps with needing it late game if you didn't build Morello or Sunfire too!
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,612
Just got the biggest FU from raptors a spatula and nothing else. Already used up all my items and had no extra left over for any trait.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Been struggling a ton today. Been trying a bunch of different builds today and not having luck with any of them. My last game I finally got a good Katarina build going and then 2 of the top 3 had Trap Claws to keep her CC'd.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,953
Las Vegas
Something I think I need some help with, how do you all reach level 9 consistently in your games? I can econ to 8 pretty well but at that point 9 feels out of reach and I start to roll down.

Is it just something you go for if you go on a win streak early or should I just econ to 9 unless I'm about to be eliminated or desperately need a unit/star up?
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
I rarely actually go to 9. The only time I really push to 9 are when I'm committed to a build that requires it (9 Forgotten) or I streak so hard early that I can hit it while keeping a decent Econ. My timing on the latter is generally if I have enough hp to guarantee surviving two more losses after the 5-4 carousel to at least reach Dragon. Even then I don't do it a lot unless I'm going for something that'll really help my comp like Verdant.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
It makes no sense that skirmishers are winning consistently against people now. Everytime I see someone else going it now they just chunking people's hp down hard
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Jax was a good carry pre-patch, it was mainly that most of the rest of the comp was dead weight. Riven was the worst 3 cost and Udyr was maybe the worst unit in the game. Plus Skirmisher is the one comp that can consistently run the now buffed 4 Dragonslayer which makes its level 8 spike massive.

Edit: Finally had a good game today and won one. Started the game with two swords, a rod and 2 Katarina's so that was obviously what I was gonna run. Planned from the start to rush to 9 to hit 9 Forgotten. Got a bit scared when I fell to 17 hp. Pushed to 9 the turn after and had 30 gold to find a Ryze and Viego. Thankfully I found them pretty quick and then got Katarina to 3 star the turn after. Put a QSS on Katarina instead of Blue Buff which I think I'm gonna keep doing from now on.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Tried spellcaster carry with 3 star ziggs and 2 out of 3 items i wanted. Had 4 knights and 3 ironclad as some tanks with a semi-beefy leona. Hard loss at the very end to a 3 item 3 star khaz and redeemer Assassin comp and a person with velkoz carry. I got my 4th spellcaster super late only right before I was going to hit level 9. Not much to help dps with 2 velkoz on bench and a single zyra
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
did excellent with 4 rangers 4 cavailers and only lost b/c of a extended ranged 3 star yasou and 3 star trundle and 2 star garen just ate through my tanks before my rangers could ramp up
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Something I think I need some help with, how do you all reach level 9 consistently in your games? I can econ to 8 pretty well but at that point 9 feels out of reach and I start to roll down.

Is it just something you go for if you go on a win streak early or should I just econ to 9 unless I'm about to be eliminated or desperately need a unit/star up?
I took a look at my match history and I went LV9 on 12 of the last 20 games I top 4'd. I was LV9 in 9 out of the last 10 games I got first in.

I'd say it depends on the comp. The "standard" comps with 4 cost carries spike at LV8 and the majority of players will do so at 5-1. If they were able to go fast 8 by having amazing econ and not having to roll at LV6 (3-2) or LV7 (4-1), they may be able to do it at 4-5. As a result, I'd say it's not the play to try and fast 9 and skip rolling down at lv8 unless you're playing something that spiked earlier, have the HP, and won't lose too much HP on the way to LV9.

Normally, you will rolldown at LV8. You will need to roll to 0 if you have to. You should stop rolling once you have:
  • Your primary carry 2*'d (Aphelios, Karma, Mordekaiser, Draven, Velkozz), AND
  • Several frontline units 2*'d
Once you have your key units 2*'d, you need to figure out how to get stronger. If the majority of your board is still 1* versions of 4 cost or lower units, youwill probably roll more. If you are missing key units and synergies, you will need to donkey roll. The reasons to go level 9 are:
  • Add a key unit that adds a synergy (or ups your count of Mystic/Ironclad for the last few fights)
  • Add a strong legendary unit
  • 2* your legendary units
If you have a strong board (2* version of your most of your units and at least your key units), and can make 10+ or ideally 20+ gold at 5-2, you should be in good shape to hit LV9 in Stage 6. You don't need to go 9 with 50 gold to roll. If you have a unit you need to add to your field on your bench and that's all you really care about because it'll help you win a fight and get you Top 4, you can go 9 as soon as you have the gold to do so. If you need to roll for 5* units, then you probably want to wait until you can go LV9 with 20 - 30 gold to roll with. You'll almost never have 50+ gold to roll at 9 for a full comp unless you've been winstreaking for like 10+ rounds and are so rich you're going to build the Invoker board or something.

Sometimes 3*ing your 4 cost is a win condition, I'd only go for this if you have an extra 2--3 copies of your unit and not a single other person in the lobby is playing it or will survive another round with it. Or if it's impossible to go 9 that game.

This applies to 4 cost carry comps. If you're using a 3 cost carry like Yasuo or Katarina, I think you almost always slowroll at 8 for a 3* version unless there's someone else trying to do the same or 2+ other people using a 2* version of it.

I feel like I was a bit rambly above but that's basically what I do.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
Tried the Skirmisher/Dragonslayer build for the first time since the patch and ended up winning with it despite not having great items. Never got a single bow or rod all game besides a Locket from Dragon (along with a GA and Redemption). Had triple Redemption Pantheon which was fun though. Had a Bloodthirster, QSS and GA on Jax while I had a Skirmisher spatula, Warmog and GA on Mordekaiser.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Katarina Fan Thread Post

RT1qr3p.png


(somehow getting a FoN + useful spat items in those three games definitely helped)

I'm honestly struggling pretty hard this patch. I just cannot for the life of me figure out what to do in Stage 4 unless I'm doing a three cost carry. Rolling down all the way just feels so bad at LV7 otherwise. I also don't think I like the effect shadow items have had on carousels. There are double the components now but the same number of slots on the carousel so if you fall behind, it's harder to catch up by at least getting better items to make up for it as there's a chance the shadow component doesn't build the effect you need. The armoury helps, but I don't think by enough.

I'd also really like to see better 5 cost odds at 9 because that's two times now that I've rolled 50+ gold at 9 and failed to really hit Kayle. The game above I at least got a pair. A game before that I got 0. Playing well (and probably highrolling) to get to 9 healthy and rich should bring a stronger reward imo. Better 4 cost odds at 8 might help too I think.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
I haven't played too many games this patch. I think the meta is better than it was pre-patch but I don't like how centralizing Kayle is. There's a bunch of builds right now designed entirely around her and I don't feel like there's decent counterplay to her right now. The main thing I'd like changed is for her to not scale while she's basically not on the board (Zephyr or during GA).

I'm going to be really curious to see what they do with Skirmisher. I feel the build is too strong right now but that Jax is perfectly fine as he is and doesn't need a nerf. Nerfing the attack scaling would drastically hurt the build so I feel the only thing they can/should do is reduce the shield at the start. I can also see them reverting the Dragonslayer buff from the last patch which would nerf the build as well.
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
lol I was watching a stream yesterday and one of the players was saying that they went up against a Hellion 7 board and was wondering how Draven was putting in so much work then realized it was a Draven 3, but he was just small because of the spat. I love that effect. In one game my friend just kept putting it on different units on his bench to see them turn small :3 My favourite actual recepients of it are Heimerdinger and Velkozz. Heimer is my end-game goal if I'm doing Hellion 7 and Velkozz is good holder in the meantime as he gets spellweaver with Ziggs, frontline with Hellion waves + Ironclad + Knight + maybe fit Redeemed if you can.

I haven't played too many games this patch. I think the meta is better than it was pre-patch but I don't like how centralizing Kayle is. There's a bunch of builds right now designed entirely around her and I don't feel like there's decent counterplay to her right now. The main thing I'd like changed is for her to not scale while she's basically not on the board (Zephyr or during GA).

I'm going to be really curious to see what they do with Skirmisher. I feel the build is too strong right now but that Jax is perfectly fine as he is and doesn't need a nerf. Nerfing the attack scaling would drastically hurt the build so I feel the only thing they can/should do is reduce the shield at the start. I can also see them reverting the Dragonslayer buff from the last patch which would nerf the build as well.
I definitely agree it's a lot better than it was before the patch. I really should've stopped playing the last few days. Vayne in particular was such an issue. I don't know if I see Kayle as much of a problem as hitting her is so unreliable. It's hard to put your entire gameplan around it. I think if Aphelios becomes good again she becomes an issue because he's probably the easiest to turn to if you don't hit Kayle? But even then he will want Last Whisper or Infinity Edge which are bad on Kayle builds. I don't know. It feels like banking on Kayle is just too inconsistent unless you get an early Varus 2 and streak enough to lose health slowly while trying to find Kayle.

I think the Zephyr and GA interactions are definitely an issue, though Zephyring Taric or other frontline can help I think. I haven't had to think very much because I'm running Katarina who just rolls over Kayle. Yasuo also kills her. Skirmishers are dead to her which I think is fine given how much people seem to consider Skirmishers to be broken. I can never get Jax to work for me :( If Slayers and now Skirmishers have taught me anything, it's that melee and I don't mix.

Edit: Just watched this video and I think I agree with all of it:



1. Skirmishers
2. Draven Mordekaiser
3. Velkozz
4. Assassins
5. Karma Invoker (difficult to pull off due to Karma and then the high cost units)

Honourable Mentions:
Yasuo - Somewhat inconsistent due to items and timing of power spikes
Draconic - If you don't hit it during Stage 2, you basically can't play it
Kayle - Very inconsistent due to needing Kayle
 
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Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Man some comps hard fall off if facing assassin's late. I was always winning with a aphelos carry with 4 renewers, 3 cavilers and it just fell apart once they got kat and the one who lifts you up and turns your piece
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Went Morde carry even got to 8 set bonus. Lost because I couldn't get to the Velkoz before cast. Couldn't figure anything good that wasn't 1 star to make 8set bonus. Had a Darius but that sucked. Tried to 1 star Karma but wasn't worth it. Dropped down to 6 set at the end to try something with two 2 star Mordes but no items for it and my Draven stuck on 1 star because couldn't find the 3rd even after someone else got out with a 2 star
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,709
Vancouver, BC
Went Morde carry even got to 8 set bonus. Lost because I couldn't get to the Velkoz before cast. Couldn't figure anything good that wasn't 1 star to make 8set bonus. Had a Darius but that sucked. Tried to 1 star Karma but wasn't worth it. Dropped down to 6 set at the end to try something with two 2 star Mordes but no items for it and my Draven stuck on 1 star because couldn't find the 3rd even after someone else got out with a 2 star
Do you mean Legionnaire? I like having the spatula on Heimerdinger who is probably the best user of attack speed items in the game. Kayle uses attack speed items well too but the Legionnaires aren't tanky enough to let her ramp up so imo items are better on a Heimer with a spat if you're going 8 Legion. With Morde and a lot of the Legionnaires being frontline units, it also helps give you a ton of damage from your backline. My favourite Morde items have been Hextech Gunblade, Caustic Quicksilver, and Warmog's Armour.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Do you mean Legionnaire? I like having the spatula on Heimerdinger who is probably the best user of attack speed items in the game. Kayle uses attack speed items well too but the Legionnaires aren't tanky enough to let her ramp up so imo items are better on a Heimer with a spat if you're going 8 Legion. With Morde and a lot of the Legionnaires being frontline units, it also helps give you a ton of damage from your backline. My favourite Morde items have been Hextech Gunblade, Caustic Quicksilver, and Warmog's Armour.
yeah i meant them
i had rageblade, gunblade and the stun on ability one,
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
I've never actually built Legionnaires except once in a normal game just before the first Mordekaiser nerf. Probably the comp I've done the least besides 4 Ranger which I've never ran.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Had one of the greatest games. Went redeemers because it gave me 3 of them before PvE ended. And someone else went it so we was battling it out redeemer vs redeemer. Both of us has Kaylee with rageblade but I was winning most times because of f other items and placements. I knock them out and last one left is a Modre carry and it was down to my 2 star Kayle vs the Morde they out GA on and get revived and barely beat me with barely any HP bar and they win first with 1 hp

Velkoz damage was useless entire time due to who I was facing at the end