Target closing San Francisco stores early in response to theft and safety concerns

[Bear Patrol]

There definitely needs to be something done but making shoplifting a felony is not the answer. There is a middle ground for punishing repeat offenders, whether that's something like community service or some other solution.

So you want to sentence shoplifters to endentured servitude in dangerous wildfires where they could die


Dope

Click to shrink...

excelsiorlef You're arguing with a libertarian who is masquerading as someone with liberal ideology. finalflame is not interested in any sort of actual solution that takes into account social equity, balance or justice because their sole interest

Strawmans are just the MO here. Toe the line and support lawlessness or you're a modern-slavery-supporting conservative. Imagine someone actually holding liberal ideals but not being down for their city being ransacked.

Click to shrink...

The fact that you can imply that you have any sort of liberal ideals while repeatedly using libertarian/conservative propoganda language would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and obvious.

Remember this thread you made where you crowed about how much money you made off Facebook, a company that literally helped propagate a genocide against the Rohingya?

Then you sidestepped a lot of the very valid criticism that people had for Facebook and how utterly morally bankrupt it is to celebrate the success of a fundamentally immoral company that, among other things:

1. Regularly failed to remove child porn/child abuse images
2. Has repeatedly had issues with shared live streams and VODs of heinous, criminal acts like the Christchurch terrorist shooting, murder-suicide of an infant, sexual assault, and countless instances of other criminal behavior.
3. Has allowed groups to make pages advocating for rape
4. Has committed so heavily to "user engagement" that it was willing to be complicit in an attempt to overthrow democracy in the US

This is, of course, only the tip of the iceberg.

Your only response was this exercise in absolute boot-licking talking about what a wonderful place it is to work, completely ignoring the fact that all the benefits you espoused are built off a literal pyramid of human misery and death.

I don't know what you are but you're not liberal and I'm not entirely convinced you have a conscience or any sort of moral compass.

 

[Goldenroad]

I don't know how you combat this cycle. So, store gets taken for thousands every day, store decreases it's hours, or starts shutting down locations to help with the bottom line, have to lay off staff, who are now unemployed and desperate enough to have to resort to petty theft, which is responded to by more stores closing, more people laid off, more poverty, more theft, more closures....

These shortened hours have a knock on effect, which is dangerous as hell. I think a solution could be, extend your hours, but (I know this is extreme), stop letting customers in the store. Have a bunch of "take out" windows instead, and online apps, where people can place their orders to pick up, at least maybe outside of daytime business hours. Maybe this ends up leading to more employment opportunities, if you could then extend your hours instead of shortening them.

 

[SJurgenson]

I don't know how you combat this cycle. So, store gets taken for thousands every day, store decreases it's hours, or starts shutting down locations to help with the bottom line, have to lay off staff, who are now unemployed and desperate enough to have to resort to petty theft, which is responded to by more stores closing, more people laid off, more poverty, more theft, more closures....

These shortened hours have a knock on effect, which is dangerous as hell. I think a solution could be, extend your hours, but (I know this is extreme), stop letting customers in the store. Have a bunch of "take out" windows instead, and online apps, where people can place their orders to pick up, at least maybe outside of daytime business hours. Maybe this ends up leading to more employment opportunities, if you could then extend your hours instead of shortening them.

Click to shrink...

...or enforce laws against shoplifting, including laws and policies that allow diversion for first time offenders?

Or I guess we could go the race to the bottom route you suggested.

 

[DemyxC]

The fact this is allowed is ominous af. There are plenty of ethical solutions to this but they all require a lot of time money and human compassion. There is no real suggestion to make that the city would actually implement that isn't dogshit.

Another thing. A lot of people are falling for the trap that because they had it hard others should be able to pull through like them. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a lot of people stealing aren't doing it because they'll die if they don't. Many of these thieves are opportunistic or just don't have general respect, but throwing those people in jail is simply a half assed solution(at least if it's for stealing goods) because it won't address the route cause, which is more than just being poor. Being poor with a good foundation and being poor with a shit foundation are two very different things, and even amongst poverty their are levels to just how poor you are. Add discrimination, the general complacency people tend to have, and the self segregatory communities people tend to put themselves in (I'm assuming SF does this) and you get complete fucking disaster. It's really hard to ever see a scenario were we fix this meaningfully.

 

[Tya]

It's fun reading all the people who don't live in SF telling the people who do live in SF what their city is like.

Click to shrink...

It is hilarious.

 

[Pet]

I don't know how you combat this cycle. So, store gets taken for thousands every day, store decreases it's hours, or starts shutting down locations to help with the bottom line, have to lay off staff, who are now unemployed and desperate enough to have to resort to petty theft, which is responded to by more stores closing, more people laid off, more poverty, more theft, more closures....

These shortened hours have a knock on effect, which is dangerous as hell. I think a solution could be, extend your hours, but (I know this is extreme), stop letting customers in the store. Have a bunch of "take out" windows instead, and online apps, where people can place their orders to pick up, at least maybe outside of daytime business hours. Maybe this ends up leading to more employment opportunities, if you could then extend your hours instead of shortening them.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, it's simple enough with the right technology.

Have no human employees (or have them work remote). That way, no one can try to hold up an employee or cause physical harm to a person.

You shop by choosing from a screen what you want to purchase. Toothpaste, apples, whatever. You pay for your groceries. After payment is approved, a robot picks and dispenses them for you. (Or, you can see all the produce/items on screen and literally select the one you want the robot to get for you).

 

[Jakisthe]

It's fun reading all the people who don't live in SF telling the people who do live in SF what their city is like.

Click to shrink...

Uh oh watch out; having a sentiment about where you live and how it affects the more immediate for you sounds like NIMBYism to me!

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's also hilarious how the article in the OP is a repackaged Washington Examiner article and cites a 'white flight' panic survey from the chamber of commerce. But yeah, let's meet their framing in the middle I guess.

Click to shrink...

I completely missed this.

It's a valid story, obviously, but the source in the OP is literally a far right website.

 

[Sophistry]

UBI.

Give people money.

Click to shrink...

Whats the point of spending money when you can walk out of the store with a product without consequences? I'm sure they would sooner save their UBI for a new car than some CVS products.

 

[pewpewtora]

Lord have mercy this thread is a disaster. This is a complicated issue and I don't think shoving people in jail or letting pp still shit because they're poor is gonna fucking solve anything. Like ok, Target is a major corporation, but what, fuck small businesses? Should they have to suffer?

 

[Gay Bowser]

Honestly, it's simple enough with the right technology.

Have no human employees (or have them work remote). That way, no one can try to hold up an employee or cause physical harm to a person.

You shop by choosing from a screen what you want to purchase. Toothpaste, apples, whatever. You pay for your groceries. After payment is approved, a robot picks and dispenses them for you. (Or, you can see all the produce/items on screen and literally select the one you want the robot to get for you).

Click to shrink...

People could still steal your purchases from you on the way back from the store. Theft would still happen, we would just be moving it to immediately outside the store.

The best thing to do would be to eliminate physical stores entirely and just deliver purchases securely to peoples' homes in an armored truck. Can't have shoplifting if there are no shops!

 

[SJurgenson]

The best thing to do would be to eliminate physical stores entirely and just deliver purchases securely to peoples' homes in an armored truck.

Click to shrink...

OK, but then what keeps theives from stealing the armored trucks?

 

[Swiggins]

OK, but then what keeps theives from stealing the armored trucks?

Click to shrink...

Robocop. Obviously.

 

[Couleurs]

Whats the point of spending money when you can walk out of the store with a product without consequences? I'm sure they would sooner save their UBI for a new car than some CVS products.

Click to shrink...

people aren't stealing for fun, they're stealing to survive. I'd bet most by far would much rather relax and pay like everyone else instead of having to take what they need (or stuff to sell to get what they need) knowing they could get arrested for it if shit ever gets enforced

 

[SJurgenson]

people aren't stealing for fun, they're stealing to survive. I'd bet most by far would much rather relax and pay like everyone else instead of having to take what they need (or stuff to sell to get what they need)

Click to shrink...

But some people are stealing for fun. You can't ignore that there is non need-based theft.

Part of the problem, IMO, is ignoring that. By all-but-decriminalizing petty theft, SF has basically opened the floodgates for professional thieves.

There needs to be more nuanced solutions than pretending all petty theft is somehow moral.

 

[¡Hip Hop!]

This is definitely due to shoplifting, and not due to them not wanting to actually pay anyone to staff those hours. Yep. Absolutely buying this justification at face value.

Click to shrink...

You obviously have no idea how much money a company like Target makes.

 

[Dalek]

people aren't stealing for fun, they're stealing to survive. I'd bet most by far would much rather relax and pay like everyone else instead of having to take what they need (or stuff to sell to get what they need)

Click to shrink...

Stop it. You and I both know that isn't true for the vast majority of crimes. Making every thief out to be Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread for a starving child is disingenuous. The far higher number are people stealing because they can get away with it and profit.

People aren't getting carjacked in my town because the thief is starving.

This thread is fucking crazy, man. FUCK-ING CRA-ZY.

 

[Syriel]

What is SF if not progressive then?

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Centrist at best. SF is not liberal or progressive. In some regards it can be quite conservative.

SF has had well documented and significant vagrancy issues for years and years. Seems like there has been little headway there on addressing those underlying issues.

And to be fair, a lot of places have that issue too. And I can agree that choosing not to enforce these types of crimes coupled with doing very little else clearly is not ideal. But just seems the reaction is just jail but nothing else.

Are there any efforts voters are going for in SF to address some of these longstanding structural issues that lead to the type of desperate criminal behavior there? Or anything to address the homelessness situation from a real policy perspective?

Click to shrink...

San Francisco residents (the vast majority of which are renters) are very much AGAINST low income and affordable housing. Gotta worry about "views, parking, the character of the neighborhood, etc."

It's a utopia, but only for criminals. Everyone else is supposed to pay for things. I'm sure that'll last.

It's okay, though, we'll just raise property taxes enough to cover everything stolen, because fuck homeowners. And I'm sure no word will get out that the city isn't even pretending to prosecute theft, leading to non-residents coming into the city to steal stuff cart blanche, which residents will have to pay for. This is an excellent plan.

Click to shrink...

Prop 13 means raising property taxes isn't an option.

Which article are you talking about?

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An Excelsior woman was attacked with a knife. The SFPD discouraged her from reporting it.

At around 8:40 p.m. Tuesday, May 11, Gigi Tonguet stepped outside of her Excelsior District apartment to wait for a food delivery. After lighting a

missionlocal.org

SFPD simply doesn't want to bother investigating crime. And that's a story about an attempted assault.

If your car window gets broken into, too bad, so sad, SFPD has better things to do.

1. Law enforcement aren't doing anything because the DA is not prosecuting. It's pointless.
2. Security at stores can't do anything -- most stores have security. It's not helping.

Click to shrink...

1) That's the union line. The DA can't do anything if the cops don't hand them a case with proper evidence. The police know it, so they slow walk work and then say "Hey! Crime is up! You need more funding for cops!"
2) They certainly can. They just choose not to do anything. Most of these stores hire off duty SFPD or patrol special officers. They can both arrest a suspect if needed.

 

[SJurgenson]

Stop it. You and I both know that isn't true for the vast majority of crimes. Making every thief out to be Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread for a starving child is disingenuous. The far higher number are people stealing because they can get away with it and profit.

People aren't getting carjacked in my town because the thief is starving.

This thread is fucking crazy, man. FUCK-ING CRA-ZY.

Click to shrink...

Look, pointing out the perverse incentives of legalizing theft is police propaganda, man.

 

[Couleurs]

Stop it. You and I both know that isn't true for the vast majority of crimes. Making every thief out to be Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread for a starving child is disingenuous. The far higher number are people stealing because they can get away with it and profit.

People aren't getting carjacked in my town because the thief is starving.

This thread is fucking crazy, man. FUCK-ING CRA-ZY.

Click to shrink...

nah, i just know a weirdly large number of people who've had to steal shit at one time or another to get by. so i tend to believe it's more that than people stealing for the hell of it. i dont have any facts to back any of this up, but oh well

 

[Thorn]

Stop it. You and I both know that isn't true for the vast majority of crimes. Making every thief out to be Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread for a starving child is disingenuous. The far higher number are people stealing because they can get away with it and profit.

People aren't getting carjacked in my town because the thief is starving.

This thread is fucking crazy, man. FUCK-ING CRA-ZY.

Click to shrink...

I should look for excerpts from a pro shoplifting subreddit I"ve seen before. I'm getting the EXACT same vibes from it.

 

[SJurgenson]

nah, i just know a weirdly large number of people who've had to steal shit at one time or another to get by. so i tend to believe it's more that than people stealing for the hell of it. i dont have any facts to back any of this up, but oh well

Click to shrink...

"I've weirdly known a bunch of people that killed in self defense. I tend to believe that murder in general is moral."

It shouldn't take a lot of deep thought to understand that people can do things for the right and wrong reasons, and that negative consequences can happen by pretending bad actors don't exist.

 

[smurfx]

people aren't stealing for fun, they're stealing to survive. I'd bet most by far would much rather relax and pay like everyone else instead of having to take what they need (or stuff to sell to get what they need) knowing they could get arrested for it if shit ever gets enforced

Click to shrink...

you act like kleptomania isn't a thing. a co worker of mine got fired for stealing and he had a nice paying job with great benefits. some people don't see an issue stealing when they think they can get away with it. obviously not everybody is stealing just for the hell of it but don't act like its just people looking to survive. also many of you hand waving this stealing because its a corporation are forgetting that it isn't just corporations people are stealing from. many of the people getting their shit stolen are people that commute to work in san francisco and aren't rich and can't afford to just get stuff stolen. if police isn't doing a damn thing about big stores being stolen from you really think they are gonna do something about some persons catalytic converter being stolen? or their car battery?

 

[Gay Bowser]

Lord have mercy this thread is a disaster. This is a complicated issue and I don't think shoving people in jail or letting pp still shit because they're poor is gonna fucking solve anything. Like ok, Target is a major corporation, but what, fuck small businesses? Should they have to suffer?

Click to shrink...

Message board threads aren't very good for complicated issues.

We need to address the systemic inequalities in America and the lack of opportunity for poor people that leads some of them to turn to crime. But in the meantime, in the surely-short time before we've eliminated inequality and solved poverty and crime forever, we also kind of have to do something when people commit crimes to prevent rampant lawlessness, and that's less comfortable to talk about.

 

[Couleurs]

"I've weirdly known a bunch of people that killed in self defense. I tend to believe that murder in general is moral".

Click to shrink...

ok

 

[Muse98]

Why is it Targets, CVS or Walgreens fault that people can't feed themselves?

 

[ZeoVGM]

I should look for excerpts from a pro shoplifting subreddit I"ve seen before. I'm getting the EXACT same vibes from it.

Click to shrink...

You said this on the last page as well.

 

[Couleurs]

you act like kleptomania isn't a thing. a co worker of mine got fired for stealing and he had a nice paying job with great benefits. some people don't see an issue stealing when they think they can get away with it. obviously not everybody is stealing just for the hell of it but don't act like its just people looking to survive. also many of you hand waving this stealing because its a corporation are forgetting that it isn't just corporations people are stealing from. many of the people getting their shit stolen are people that commute to work in san francisco and aren't rich and can't afford to just get stuff stolen. if police isn't doing a damn thing about big stores being stolen from you really think they are gonna do something about some persons catalytic converter being stolen? or their car battery?

Click to shrink...

oh i know, i'm not glorifying it and i know there's plenty of assholes out there. But i can't automatically assume someone is stealing for asshole reasons

 

[Mulligan]

I don't know if that's true or not, but let's say it is. I'd hypothesize that it is usually a part of more organized crime because people largely respect the idea that you can't go around stealing whatever you want without repercussions rather than everyone harboring bootstrap fantasies or some honor code. Remove any downside and you'd, frankly, be stupid not to steal

(and no, I am not advocating throwing shoplifters in prison)

Click to shrink...

You're missing the entire point.

Shoplifting is not as big of a deal as CVS, Target, etc. are saying it is right now. CVS/Walgreens in fact announced they were closing a large number of stores last year. These stores didn't suddenly close because of theft, they closed because of CVS'/Target's/Walgreens' strategy of a capital strike against Prop 47 and a slightly sympathetic liberal San Francisco District Attorney. Adding to that, COVID hurt the bottom lines of these corporations and the best way to trim the fat is to cut real estate and labor costs.

It doesn't matter who or why there's shoplifting in SF, because the entire story is made up. Shoplifting is not the reason why these stores are closing.

 

[Muse98]

Going by the replies in this thread I should be able to go into any business I want and take whatever I want if I can't afford to pay for it?

 

[Thordinson]

1. Law enforcement aren't doing anything because the DA is not prosecuting. It's pointless.
2. Security at stores can't do anything -- most stores have security. It's not helping.

Click to shrink...

1. That doesn't make sense because if they stole more than $950 then it will be prosecuted. How would they know how much is stolen without arresting them? Doesn't this mean cops are refusing to arrest anyone even if they are stealing more than $950? This sounds like cops aren't doing their job either. I've seen police arrest people without actually having a cause before, they'll make it up later.
2. Why can't they?

Why is it Targets, CVS or Walgreens fault that people can't feed themselves?

Click to shrink...

Ummm....

 

[Dalek]

I should look for excerpts from a pro shoplifting subreddit I"ve seen before. I'm getting the EXACT same vibes from it.

Click to shrink...

Looks like that subreddit was banned-can't imagine why-but here's an article with some posts archived on it.

There's a shoplifting subreddit. Morals not welcome.

There are subreddits dedicated to nude photo sharing, dragon sex, and as we recently discovered, stealing.

mashable.com

The users in r/shoplifting aren't stealing out of necessity. They're showing off how they took a drone from the Apple Store, an engagement ring, or home goods from IKEA.

They just like free shit. However passionately they justify it, it's a pastime that happens to be illegal.

Click to shrink...

 

[SJurgenson]

Why is it Targets, CVS or Walgreens fault that people can't feed themselves?

Click to shrink...

Because scapegoating large corporations feels good and is easier than coming up with complex, workable solutions to complex social problems.

Pretending corporations are evil is easy. Realizing that corporations are generally rational actors responding to social and governmental factors is hard.

Why try and solve the perverse incentives that allow and promote negative corporate actions, when you can instead blame the corporations directly instead of the systems they operate in.

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

As an SF resident…I totally agree with Syriel that generally SF is not "progressive". There's def a lot of NIMBYism and fake woke people that when push comes to shove (like building housing for low income people) they're like fuck that. Petty crime is def on the rise but I feel that the local government and police are so apathetic to the systemic problems of this city that I don't think it will ever be solved

I feel that there def needs to be something done like some sort of deterrence because yea fuck Target as a corporation but the store workers are most def going to feel this and that's not ok…not to mention the small businesses that can't afford getting bipped all the time

 

[krazen]

Message board threads aren't very good for complicated issues.

We need to address the systemic inequalities in America and the lack of opportunity for poor people that leads some of them to turn to crime. But in the meantime, in the surely-short time before we've eliminated inequality and solved poverty and crime forever, we also kind of have to do something when people commit crimes to prevent rampant lawlessness, and that's less comfortable to talk about.

Click to shrink...

Do we though?

Like to a certain extent nobody wants to live in crime.

But there's a certain level of chickens coming home to roost (c) here. These acts are not a 'new' problem, they are a problem we let fester through inaction on very basic solutions, basic solutions that we will once again delay because the easiest route is just the business as usual criminalization of everything pushing everything to the future so our kids will be dealing with the same issues.

It's just weird the framing of 'we need to deal with these issues now!' when the reason we have these issues was the previous generation of city dwellers kicking the ball down the field to deal with later, now 'our' later.

Everyone in this post is acting like they are the victim as opposed to the part we all played in getting to this point

 

[Septimus Prime]

You're missing the entire point.

Shoplifting is not as big of a deal as CVS, Target, etc. are saying it is right now. CVS/Walgreens in fact announced they were closing a large number of stores last year. These stores didn't suddenly close because of theft, they closed because of CVS'/Target's/Walgreens' strategy of a capital strike against Prop 47 and a slightly sympathetic liberal San Francisco District Attorney. Adding to that, COVID hurt the bottom lines of these corporations and the best way to trim the fat is to cut real estate and labor costs.

It doesn't matter who or why there's shoplifting in SF, because the entire story is made up. Shoplifting is not the reason why these stores are closing.

Click to shrink...

Anecdotally, almost everyone I've talked with who lives in the Bay Area and owns a car has had their cars broken into in SF at some point. Including me. And yeah, the cops do fuck all about it.

 

[ZeoVGM]

people aren't stealing for fun, they're stealing to survive. I'd bet most by far would much rather relax and pay like everyone else instead of having to take what they need (or stuff to sell to get what they need) knowing they could get arrested for it if shit ever gets enforced

Click to shrink...

nah, i just know a weirdly large number of people who've had to steal shit at one time or another to get by. so i tend to believe it's more that than people stealing for the hell of it. i dont have any facts to back any of this up, but oh well

Click to shrink...

This isn't the right take. It's factually wrong to say everyone is only stealing to survive. But it is valid to point out that there are many people stealing for survival.

A better way of discussing this is to keep in mind that both of those scenarios exist so how do we go about punishment? The "you go to jail for years for shoplifting" idea is horrible because you end up punishing people stealing "for fun" the same as people who resort to theft for survival. And that just makes things worse in the end.

This is a complicated issue and while I think that, more than anything, we need to keep those in mind who are just trying to survive, we need to acknowledge that there are plenty of people stealing to put shit on eBay as well.

 

[PMS341]

This thread is wild and at times sociopathic. No one - not a single person - should care more about physically reproduced oft-insured consumer goods than other human beings or the socioeconomic conditions and issues that exist in their communities. Just absolutely floored by some of the responses in here, especially those suggesting the prison-industrial complex is in any way satisfactory.

 

[Midramble]

Going by the replies in this thread I should be able to go into any business I want and take whatever I want if I can't afford to pay for it?

Click to shrink...

Honestly, if you looked like you needed it, I'd not seen a thing.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Do we though?

Click to shrink...

Do we have to…try to prevent rampant lawlessness?

Yeah, I'd say that should be something a society should try to do. Sorry if that's controversial.

 

[Anaron]

this fucking thread lmao

There definitely needs to be something done but making shoplifting a felony is not the answer. There is a middle ground for punishing repeat offenders, whether that's something like community service or some other solution.



excelsiorlef You're arguing with a libertarian who is masquerading as someone with liberal ideology. finalflame is not interested in any sort of actual solution that takes into account social equity, balance or justice because their sole interest



The fact that you can imply that you have any sort of liberal ideals while repeatedly using libertarian/conservative propoganda language would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and obvious.

Remember this thread you made where you crowed about how much money you made off Facebook, a company that literally helped propagate a genocide against the Rohingya?

Then you sidestepped a lot of the very valid criticism that people had for Facebook and how utterly morally bankrupt it is to celebrate the success of a fundamentally immoral company that, among other things:

1. Regularly failed to remove child porn/child abuse images
2. Has repeatedly had issues with shared live streams and VODs of heinous, criminal acts like the Christchurch terrorist shooting, murder-suicide of an infant, sexual assault, and countless instances of other criminal behavior.
3. Has allowed groups to make pages advocating for rape
4. Has committed so heavily to "user engagement" that it was willing to be complicit in an attempt to overthrow democracy in the US

This is, of course, only the tip of the iceberg.

Your only response was this exercise in absolute boot-licking talking about what a wonderful place it is to work, completely ignoring the fact that all the benefits you espoused are built off a literal pyramid of human misery and death.

I don't know what you are but you're not liberal and I'm not entirely convinced you have a conscience or any sort of moral compass.

Click to shrink...

Looooooool I love deep dive dragging.

His replies are such textbook nimby neoliberal. Not at all surprised

 

[StoveOven]

It looks like "complex solutions" is the new buzz word in this thread. Sure, this shit is complex. But if you're complex solution is "lock everyone up then figure out the rest later," I'm not interested.

 

[Couleurs]

This isn't the right take. It's factually wrong to say everyone is only stealing to survive.

Click to shrink...

I don't know what the percentage of shoplifters is that do it for survival reasons, but i deal with them enough as part of my job that I'm more understanding of what they're going through. Obviously this shit sucks for everyone and I don't know what to do about it.

 

[Dalek]

Going by the replies in this thread I should be able to go into any business I want and take whatever I want if I can't afford to pay for it?

Click to shrink...

According to some of these replies you should be able to rob them from their own homes! As long as the other person wanted it more.

 

[Thordinson]

It looks like "complex solutions" is the new buzz word in this thread. Sure, this shit is complex. But if you're complex solution is "lock everyone up then figure out the rest later," I'm not interested.

Click to shrink...

This.

 

[GYODX]

It looks like "complex solutions" is the new buzz word in this thread. Sure, this shit is complex. But if you're complex solution is "lock everyone up then figure out the rest later," I'm not interested.

Click to shrink...

Literally one person in this thread advocated for that solution.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Looks like that subreddit was banned-can't imagine why-but here's an article with some posts archived on it.

There's a shoplifting subreddit. Morals not welcome.

There are subreddits dedicated to nude photo sharing, dragon sex, and as we recently discovered, stealing.

mashable.com

Click to shrink...

The users in r/shoplifting aren't stealing out of necessity. They're showing off how they took a drone from the Apple Store, an engagement ring, or home goods from IKEA.

They just like free shit. However passionately they justify it, it's a pastime that happens to be illegal.

Click to shrink...

So, hold on.

I should look for excerpts from a pro shoplifting subreddit I"ve seen before. I'm getting the EXACT same vibes from it.

Click to shrink...

This thread is giving you "the EXACT same vibes" from what is described above? Really?

 

[Min]

Do we have to…try to prevent rampant lawlessness?

Yeah, I'd say that should be something a society should try to do. Sorry if that's controversial.

Click to shrink...

Does rampant lawlessness occur when you don't have a large population living in the streets?

 

[Dalek]

So, hold on.



This thread is giving you "the EXACT same vibes" from what is described above? Really?

Click to shrink...

There are people in this thread saying the thieves stealing from Neiman Marcus were doing so because they were poor. Is that different than stealing a drone from the Apple Store?

 

[Thorn]

So, hold on.



This thread is giving you "the EXACT same vibes" from what is described above? Really?

Click to shrink...

Some of the excuses, yes. Though I actually visited that subreddit before it was closed, so its not necessarily the same as those pictures.

There are people in this thread saying the thieves stealing from Neiman Marcus were doing so because they were poor. Is that different than stealing a drone from the Apple Store?

Click to shrink...

Also this.