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Tank Controls Are Good. And So Are Fixed Camera Angles.
- Thread starter Twingsy
- Start date
If it doesn't feel good to control the game than i can't play it. Tank controls is a huge red flag to me.
I completely agree. Though I thought it was hilarious when Shinji Mikami in that Archipel doc last year said he was embarrassed by us folks who say they're still good.
If a game has fixed camera angles a la classic RE or Onimusha, then I want the tank controls too. Re-affirmed immediately when I tried to play the Onimusha remaster with the analogue controls and reverted to dpad/tank controls in less than 15 minutes because it just felt so much better.
I love tank controls and fixed camera angles. I had the original Alone in the Dark so tank controls were always second nature after that. I'm glad later games added the quick 180 though. Being chased by something while using the "normal" controls sucks when the camera changes and you have to keep re-centering the stick to change directions.
Disagree strongly about tank controls. Non-tank controls doesn't then automatically mean "super agile", it just means "doesn't control worse than it could". I haven't played every game mentioning them in this thread, but I've played a lot of them, and they're uniformly worse because of them, across the board. Sometimes only a little worse, sometimes much worse, but good they are most certainly are not. If it was designed well for tank, it could be designed better for non-tank.
Unless, you know, it's actually a tank being controlled, but even then, I'd say Katamari style controls are a better fit.
Unless, you know, it's actually a tank being controlled, but even then, I'd say Katamari style controls are a better fit.
Pro fixed camera, no issues here.
Any game with tank controls I'm going to have to dedicate hours of failing to proceed, compared to nothing to pick up and play otherwise. Doesn't mean I can't respect it, doesn't mean I don't think it has a place. But, if given the option, time is money and I"m not picking tank controls. If it isn't an option, its going to have to be a really good game to get me back in that mode.
Any game with tank controls I'm going to have to dedicate hours of failing to proceed, compared to nothing to pick up and play otherwise. Doesn't mean I can't respect it, doesn't mean I don't think it has a place. But, if given the option, time is money and I"m not picking tank controls. If it isn't an option, its going to have to be a really good game to get me back in that mode.
Fixed camera angles im ok if implemented properly
Tank Controls? They can remain in the trash tqvm
Tank Controls? They can remain in the trash tqvm
LOL. Same. At least with regards to tank controls. There's good reason why they're pretty much obsolete.
Agreed OP, games should be able to have different controls schemes to fit the designers vision and not just having everything be some run and gun shooter. Tank controls arent even bad but people nowadays especially will throw a super fit if its something like that so I cant imagine it will comeback.
Until Dawn was the only game in modern time to actually scratch that fixed camera style itch. It worked great in that game and should be a valid option for many horror/atmospheric, or games driven by exploration.
It took me a while to get used to tank controls, but I finally saw how they could be beneficial. When I played the first REmake, I toggled them off, and I kept them off, but I can't tell you how many times I'd swap rooms and the fixed camera angle would send me going back into the room I just left.
Edit: I still prefer playing without them, but your points aren't without merit, OP.
Edit: I still prefer playing without them, but your points aren't without merit, OP.
I agree that tank controls and fixed camera angles have a place.
That place is not on any console I own. I played a lot of fixed camera horror in the 1990s and 2000s, and after a decade of over-the-shoulder, I just, can't stand them any more. My most recent attempt to replay Remake, a genuinely good fixed camera angle game, came to a crashing halt because of the camera. So while I don't begrudge people for liking them, I view fixed camera angles in the same boat as sports and racing games--fun for someone who is not me.
Medium's coming out for the low, low price of Gamepass, so I might give it a while, but I probably ain't gonna last too long.
That place is not on any console I own. I played a lot of fixed camera horror in the 1990s and 2000s, and after a decade of over-the-shoulder, I just, can't stand them any more. My most recent attempt to replay Remake, a genuinely good fixed camera angle game, came to a crashing halt because of the camera. So while I don't begrudge people for liking them, I view fixed camera angles in the same boat as sports and racing games--fun for someone who is not me.
Medium's coming out for the low, low price of Gamepass, so I might give it a while, but I probably ain't gonna last too long.
Fake news!
I'll respectfully disagree about tank controls - I really don't like them.
However, I'll balance that out by saying I don't mind purposely placed camera angles that I can't control, and I also realize that NOT ALL GAMES ARE DESIGNED WITH MY TASTES IN MIND.
I'll respectfully disagree about tank controls - I really don't like them.
However, I'll balance that out by saying I don't mind purposely placed camera angles that I can't control, and I also realize that NOT ALL GAMES ARE DESIGNED WITH MY TASTES IN MIND.
Fully agreed.
Every type of control has a place these days and tank controls in particular are one of the most important ones.
Once you get over the fact games have to control similarly to be "good" you will be able to appreciate it. I really enjoy playing the classic RE games with them. RE4 is another type of tank control that I love.
If devs design the game around the controls they are not an issue.
Every type of control has a place these days and tank controls in particular are one of the most important ones.
Once you get over the fact games have to control similarly to be "good" you will be able to appreciate it. I really enjoy playing the classic RE games with them. RE4 is another type of tank control that I love.
If devs design the game around the controls they are not an issue.
you have my sword and axe and bow
If you've tried Resident Evil HD with "modern" controls, you probably know, as they completely break the game.
But, tank controls are good, actually. Or, specifically, they have their purpose.
The enemy placement, their movement speed, the amount of ammo you get, and level design is completely dictated by the movement and the meticulously designed camera. Every single angle is kino and filled with anticipation. The zombies' slow waltz is a threat beause you're not very fast either, and you have to slowly back up. Areas are tight and meticulously designed for you to tense up and get cornered. Two zombies can be enough to kill you.
Even if both were born out of necessity because of limited gpu specs and a lack of analogue stick, the designers still had put a lot of effort in designing an experience specifically tailored to those controls and camera, and I disagree with the modern notion that these are just "old" and not a viable design philosophy. And I'd like to argue that their proven purpose is why horror games stuck with tank controls way into the PS2 era, with games like Project Zero 5 still making use of a variation of it in its Wii U release.
This is all tied to how horror games have become more action-based as the faster your character, the more mobility options they have, the faster and more aggressive the enemies need more. And if you're so agile that a few enemies don't pose a threat, the option becomes to just add more enemies. Or, the alternate way, going the Outlast/Alien Isolation route of just having the enemies be insta-death and you're just running and hiding around.
I think this one of the core issues with RE3R compared to RE2R (which doesn't have tank controls, but they mitigated your increased movement speed by giving the zombies a sprint if they're close enough, but even then, avoiding them and Mr.X is still pretty easy) as they gave Jill the matrix dodge back, which means they had to place way more zombies and create narrower rooms as to otherwise you would just be able to roll around them all - ultimately adding so many enemies in the latter half that it just felt like a shoddy Resident Evil 6.
It's the natural evolution too - the move movement and combat options you have, the more enemies - and the more agile enemies - you need, until you eventually reach Resident Evil 6. And it is still and issue in RE2R, even with the slowed-down movement and the lunge attack of the zombies. Don't believe me? The fact that the Hunk stage works tells you enough, and that's how it works in the base game too. If you don't stop or Ronaldinhio around them, everything is rather easily avoidable.
Now I know what you're thinking, tank controls are maybe hard for accessibility reasons, but as we live in 2021, it shouldn't be that hard to add a toggle, just like in REmake.
Nothing beats the absolute erotic kino of a perfectly placed camera angle, shaking in anticipation what's around to corner, only to be greeted by a ghost and shitting your bricks so hard they blow throught the floor and create a volcano in Australia, and the feeling of satisfaction of having the pathed the area well because you know you will get bitten/hit if you walk around that fucking room with the crimson zombie where the statues are. Or you slowly backing up, unloading shots, only to be greeted by another zombie around the corner once the angle changes.
I think the hunt to deride mechanics and gameplay styles from 1990 - 2010 era as old and not fitting greatly hurt a lot genres, and I hope we'll see a locked, tank-control Survival Horror revival sooner rather than later, just like people have come around on "boomer shooters" with non-regenerative health & ammo pick ups in the past 5-6 years.
Fixed camera angles is something I cannot ever get used to. It ends up fucking with my spatial awareness.
I don't mind tank controls at all though.
I don't mind tank controls at all though.
Fixed camera angles and tank controls belong together, because rapidly changing perspectives result in control confusion otherwise. However, it's still awkward. There's no real way to prevent this awkwardness, even if that's the lesser of two evils.
I remember never having issues with tank controls as they were standard controls in survival horror games after Resident Evil. However I recently tried playing Code Veronica and my god it was so painfully awkward and frustrating to control .
I guess I've gotten old and soft and lost my edge. LOL
I guess I've gotten old and soft and lost my edge. LOL
Tank controls are fine, but with fixed camera? Nuh uh. No way. It stinks! Won't hear otherwise. Sorry that you're broken. It's not me, it's you.
The Silent Hill games knew what they were doing in allowing you to switch off of such a wretched combination.
The Silent Hill games knew what they were doing in allowing you to switch off of such a wretched combination.
What if it's not that I feel that games have to control similarly and more that I feel they have to control smoothly - that I don't want to feel like I'm fighting to do what I want to do? A game's feel has always been important to me, and I do have some tolerance for some clunk, but tank controls are well past that tolerance.
That's subjective.
I was introduced to tank controls well after other methods were introduced yet I was able to adapt and I feel they are smooth when designed well.
RE1-3 (3 in particular) is one of the smoothest classic tank control games ever made. RE4 is another form that is more modern yet it worked perfectly for me. God Hand is another one.
All of these games I mentioned are well designed and very smooth once you do get used to the way they work.
OP explains it really well with the REmake gifs. If you add a different control scheme the game gets broken. It no longer feels dangerous because it is not designed for it. Same goes the other way too.
I remember the dev commentary in Grim Fandango Remastered, back then somebody justified the tank controls as being more 'immersive' because your reference is the left/right of the character and not of the camera. "And that shows that it's possible to use good arguments to push a bad idea" was the closing comment, though
Actually I recently started playing RE HD with the default new scheme. I will try classic controls later then to see if it feels more tense or if it's just annoying
I'm liking the fixed cameras btw
Actually I recently started playing RE HD with the default new scheme. I will try classic controls later then to see if it feels more tense or if it's just annoying
I'm liking the fixed cameras btw
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I went back to play REmake and I just couldn't do it, much to my surprise. I loved the original back in the day, and I love the graphics of REmake, but it's a different world now. The RE2 and RE3 remakes are what the world looks like, and it's great.
Tank controls and fixed cameras had their day, and they were great times which I'll always cherish, but they're behind us now. The world has moved on... or at least I have. There might even be dozens of us! Dozens.
Tank controls and fixed cameras had their day, and they were great times which I'll always cherish, but they're behind us now. The world has moved on... or at least I have. There might even be dozens of us! Dozens.
100% Agree. Nice write up OP. It's incredible how resistant people are to this kind of game design. It's not like traditional modern horror design is going away just because we want one goddam game in the style of oldschool survival horror.
I'm replaying FFVII and the fixed camera angles give the world a lot of character that would otherwise be lost if I was just twirling a camera around for the most optimal view.
I completely disagree.
I don't want gut controls in order to hold on to some ideal that fixed camera angels offer a more survival horror experience. RE2 remake completely upends your argument. RE2 remake is more of a survival horror game (It has harsher save points, more thought put into inventory management) than even classic resident evil. If you look at modern survival horror games (RE2, Alien Isolation Darkwood) it becomes abundantly clear that what makes a survival horror game is limited inventory/resources, making avoiding combat a valid option and limited saves. None of which has anything to do with fixed cameras.
I don't want gut controls in order to hold on to some ideal that fixed camera angels offer a more survival horror experience. RE2 remake completely upends your argument. RE2 remake is more of a survival horror game (It has harsher save points, more thought put into inventory management) than even classic resident evil. If you look at modern survival horror games (RE2, Alien Isolation Darkwood) it becomes abundantly clear that what makes a survival horror game is limited inventory/resources, making avoiding combat a valid option and limited saves. None of which has anything to do with fixed cameras.
They aren't bad when designed around these limitations. However, some entries feel like they weren't carefully crafted with this in mind. Like Code Veronica.
You don't have to preach to me; I'm already attending the same Sermon. I still enjoy the classic Resident Evil games for thier masterful design around fixed camera angles and tank controls and no, as good or as fun as the RE2-Remake is, it doesn't quite capture the same exact feelings or sensations while playing.
I'd love to see some modern games made utilizing fixed camera angles again.
I'd love to see some modern games made utilizing fixed camera angles again.
Growing up I played Resident Evil when it was first released on the PlayStation. It was a brilliant game. Later I played through Resident Evil 2, and it was amazing also in many ways.
In both instances, however, the controls were the absolute low points in the experience. Hours and hours of gameplay and controlling the characters was never enjoyable.
Every once in a while people defend it in much the same way the OP does, but I know what I felt and what I experienced. 👎
Nah, I disagree. They are product of their time. The only time I think it's ok is if it's a David cage or Until Dawn style adventure game where there is no combat in the core gameplay loop.
Tank controls for third person games to me is like seeing first person games that doesn't take advantage of twin stick controls for the locomotion.
More power to people that enjoy it but it's not for me.
Tank controls for third person games to me is like seeing first person games that doesn't take advantage of twin stick controls for the locomotion.
More power to people that enjoy it but it's not for me.
I decided to play Onimusha Remastered before replaying Onimusha 2
That was a mistake
I still love Onimusha 2 but man I fucking hate the controls!
That was a mistake
I still love Onimusha 2 but man I fucking hate the controls!