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L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
The biggest example being the hyper violent and gory media that comes out of American movies and TV shows. Does anyone know of American media toning that down?
There are people in America itself who consistently criticize the violence in their media, and there are people in America itself who consistently criticize the violence in their reality. No culture is a monolith.

Like, google 4Kids Entertainment right now and tell me if you think you still come across as genuine making this sort of claim.
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,771
The beach episode, local festival, hot spring trip, school cultural festival, and etc. are all tropes that are readily found in anime and so it makes sense that they'll appear in Japanese games.

If that kind of content is something you would like to avoid then I think it falls on the individual to avoid supporting that content.

If your hope is to change the culture in another country that creates content you don't personally like then you should probably abandon that idea.

In the political world it would work as well as foreign nations trying to tell the US population what they should or should not like or what actions they should take.

The biggest example being the hyper violent and gory media that comes out of American movies and TV shows. Does anyone know of American media toning that down?

Sexual harrassment is not a protected 'culture' and is not a necessary component of any hot spring scene.
 

golguin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,759
There are people in America itself who consistently criticize the violence in their media, and there are people in America itself who consistently criticize the violence in their reality. No culture is a monolith.

I don't believe any culture is a monolith. I'm Mexican and Catholic, but that doesn't mean I adhere to the values most commonly associated with those two descriptors of myself. I understand very well the issues that come from assuming people are one way or another based on their culture.

That being said there is no denying that violence and sex sells in America and while there are people who don't agree with the exploitation and actively decry it's creation I would say that those voices are drowned out by the billions made by American creators in the TV, Film, and Video Game industries. Some of the most violent games are actively celebrated here.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,366
Canada
The beach episode, local festival, hot spring trip, school cultural festival, and etc. are all tropes that are readily found in anime and so it makes sense that they'll appear in Japanese games.

If that kind of content is something you would like to avoid then I think it falls on the individual to avoid supporting that content.

If your hope is to change the culture in another country that creates content you don't personally like then you should probably abandon that idea.

In the political world it would work as well as foreign nations trying to tell the US population what they should or should not like or what actions they should take.

The biggest example being the hyper violent and gory media that comes out of American movies and TV shows. Does anyone know of American media toning that down?

No culture has women who enjoy being sexually harassed.
Also, why does every single hot spring scene have the same punchline? And specifically the same victims of that punchline?
 

golguin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,759
Sexual harrassment is not a protected 'culture' and is not a necessary component of any hot spring scene.
Sexual harrassment is not a protected 'culture' and is not a necessary component of any hot spring scene.

No where in my previous post did I say that sexual harassment is a component of any "culture". At no point did I imply that it's a needed component of a hot spring scene.

I will restate what I did say though. Don't support content that you don't agree with.

I will reword the other part of my statement so it doesn't get interpreted in the way you are presenting it. American voices have very little success in changing the content made by Japanese developers. At most the scene is cut from the game or the entire game itself won't be released in the US. The kind of content created by Japanese developers will change when the Japanese audience demands the change or stops supporting it. A demand from American audiences isn't enough.
 

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,825
No where in my previous post did I say that sexual harassment is a component of any "culture". At no point did I imply that it's a needed component of a hot spring scene.

I will restate what I did say though. Don't support content that you don't agree with.

I will reword the other part of my statement so it doesn't get interpreted in the way you are presenting it. American voices have very little success in changing the content made by Japanese developers. At most the scene is cut from the game or the entire game itself won't be released in the US. The kind of content created by Japanese developers will change when the Japanese audience demands the change or stops supporting it. A demand from American audiences isn't enough.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. Do you want anyone uncomfortable with this and critical of it to just shut up? Telling people to vote by not buying it is a meaningless point when that's too quiet to be recognized for its intent. Are we not supposed to discuss the media we consume?

I did buy the game, the developer has my tacit "support" for this practice. At this point the best thing I can do to send a message about it is to be vocal in my opposition to it.
 

Saito Hikari

Member
Jul 3, 2021
2,740
The beach episode, local festival, hot spring trip, school cultural festival, and etc. are all tropes that are readily found in anime and so it makes sense that they'll appear in Japanese games.

If that kind of content is something you would like to avoid then I think it falls on the individual to avoid supporting that content.

If your hope is to change the culture in another country that creates content you don't personally like then you should probably abandon that idea.

In the political world it would work as well as foreign nations trying to tell the US population what they should or should not like or what actions they should take.

The biggest example being the hyper violent and gory media that comes out of American movies and TV shows. Does anyone know of American media toning that down?

This argument is a stone's throw away from literally arguing that sexual harassment is a valued aspect of Japanese culture. Not saying that you enjoy this kind of thing, but the argument can go both ways. Some of the arguments I've seen seem like a person's attempt to rationalize favor for this type of content in a way that simultaneously absolves themselves of any responsibility, by arguing that it's an inherent value of a culture that they aren't a part of.

Plus it's not like people haven't called out the hyper violence in American media either. Or did we all forget everything to do with TLOU2 before release?
 

blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
2,961
If we want to bring more attention to the issue maybe we could notify some games journalists who would be interested in covering it. I'm think the crew at Waypoint or Fanbyte, both who are strong progressives and have covered these types of issues before.
 

golguin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,759
I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. Do you want anyone uncomfortable with this and critical of it to just shut up? Telling people to vote by not buying it is a meaningless point when that's too quiet to be recognized for its intent. Are we not supposed to discuss the media we consume?

I did buy the game, the developer has my tacit "support" for this practice. At this point the best thing I can do to send a message about it is to be vocal in my opposition to it.

I used to play Tales games and the only factor I used to buy my first was a demo video playing at Kmart showing the anime opening to Symphonia. I barely knew what anime was at the time, but I bought the game not knowing what the content would be. I still remember a specific scene that happened in the game that had a lasting impact on me because of my grandmothers recent death. I never thought I would be confronted with that kind of scene, but I honestly never thought about video game content because I didn't really play RPGs aside from Pokemon when I was younger.

I think games need to be better about the content descriptors to avoid having people buy a product that they wouldn't have bought had they known it had content that they didn't agree with.

I listed some of the tropes found in anime because at this point in my life I have watched enough anime to know that some content is going to end up being a staple of specific genres and that kind of content still has the potential to leak into fantasy games that don't really have any business containing high school anime tropes.

If anyone were to ask me for buying advice on a Tales game and they asked me if it had any "Anime Tropes" that they had issues with I would say that it probably had them all without even playing the game. I have no reason to suspect that it would avoid any specific trope based on the past games I've played in the series.

The "vote with your wallet" idea is something that's been around for a long time and its true that it only works when enough people actively avoid a series due to whatever past issues. We have seen video game series fall and fail when enough people had issues with previous titles and refused to support the next one.

The question then obviously comes when a person likes a series overall, but doesn't want to deal with content that shouldn't be there to begin with. The only reasonable answer is again to "vote with your wallet", but if only a minority of people are willing to avoid monetary support then it can feel like it all amount to nothing.

The only reasonable option after that is to attempt a grassroot effort to bring the issues to light via various social media means or campaigns for change. If it was an American developer I would say that kind of effort has a high chance to reach the ears of those who are in a position to enact real change. I would say that we have seen success of that with American game devs.

The issue is that to my knowledge that kind of effort coming from American fans does not reach the ears of those who can enact change in Japan. It may be that those efforts are heard by an American branch, but the Japanese branch will still refuse. Biggest example of that would be Persona streaming and Atlus where the American side understands, but the Japanese side refused to move.

With all that being said I stand by my position that "voting with my wallet" is the best that my singular voice can do with the position I'm in. People are free to disagree with that and I bet that there are people with more social impact than me that can be vocal about the issue and have more impact, but I still believe that history has shown that Japanese devs will still ignore it. There is no harm in trying, but I don't see success from that avenue unless it's coming from within Japan.

That doesn't mean I want people to shut up or not express themselves. I was reading this thread and I thought I should give a viewpoint that looked at why the content exists and why it probably wont stop appearing in games made by Japanese developers and why it will probably continue to appear in JRPGs.
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,001
Damn, that's messed up. I just tried the demo on PC to see if it works but this caused me to decrease my overall interest in the game like why.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
These games are laser focused on the worst audience there is. Weebs. It's sad since the game looks great but the content is just ruined by garbage like this. Same with Ys 8 where after the shipwreck on female character decides to take a bath at a random river and the MC walks into her. Same shit all over. Anime ruined JRPG.
 

JCG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,537
We should be at a point in time where game writers and creators would be able to realize that younger characters (or any female characters, really) shouldn't be subjected to harassment as comedy (as opposed to, say, including actual serious depictions of harassment in a game, which can be a valid storytelling device even if problematic). Not only is it particularly tasteless and unfunny, it's promoting some very negative implications and tone deaf stereotypes.

That said, you can easily have a hot springs scene without such situations arising in the first place. There's been a couple of examples mentioned earlier, so it's not like all Japanese creators are completely powerless to willingly take any other approach and run with it.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,568
im not really sure why this is constantly brought up as if people overseas care way more than people in Japan.

Like, more and more people at least here in the US are watching anime. I have tons of friends who do. None of them really care about stuff like this and ERA is honestly the only place I see critical of stuff like this, most people laugh at the absurdity and move on. I don't really think they're gonna change a lot in order to appeal more overseas.

Yeah you and others are right. Most people probably don't care about this at the end of the day.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,857
As soon as I saw these DLC costumes I went...oh no!

store.steampowered.com

Tales of Arise - Beach Time Triple Pack (Male) on Steam

Time for fun in the sun! A pack with beach costumes for Alphen, Law, and Dohalim.

store.steampowered.com

Tales of Arise - Beach Time Triple Pack (Female) on Steam

Time for fun in the sun! A pack with beach costumes for Shionne, Rinwell, and Kisara.

The fact that they need to give a 14 year old character beachwear DLC is bad enough, but I've noticed a trend of not even bothering with giving male characters actual beachwear. The latest Trails did this as well, and Ys too I believe. They don't even pretend to be equal opportunity offenders any more.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
Can we stop implying that this type of gross sexual harassment is in any way an acceptable part of Japanese culture? It seems like an attempt to defend Japanese culture but instead makes a mockery of it.