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Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Cool, let's break up all the cell phone providers, now what do you do with the spectrum.

Where does Sprint's spectrum go when they file for Chapter 11? Who gets Verizon's spectrum when you break the company up, the same with AT&T. It's not as simple as saying let's break them all up.

I agree that the FTC and DOJ are fucking corrupt, but this has been an issue going back years, not just under the current administration.

The spectrum wouldn't go anywhere for Sprint. That's not how Chapter 11 works.

For AT&T and Version spectrum would be divided between each new company. I'm not an expert in antitrust though.

The corruption we see now is at an unprecedented level. What other president has so blatantly been bribed without consequences?

This sounds nice and idealistic but I guess I don't know how we know that if they all got magically broken up, things would be cheaper and better when the economy of scale drops. Like... do we really think smaller carriers could be as fast and cheap at building 5G as the major carriers can be now? Do we know that their large base of users and cash are not an advantage at upgrading across a place as massive as the USA?

It's not like break ups have never happened before and led us here

We broke up AT&T before and it resulted in some of the most innovative technology and companies in history. The failure was allowing them to merge even after the breakup and now we're back where we started.
 

mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,022
So can Sprint numbers be part of T Mobile Tuesdays and be part of the MLB deal?
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,688
Reno
The spectrum wouldn't go anywhere for Sprint. That's not how Chapter 11 works.

For AT&T and Version spectrum would be divided between each new company. I'm not an expert in antitrust though.

The corruption we see now is at an unprecedented level. What other president has so blatantly been bribed without consequences?

And how do you divide that spectrum up? How do you determine what spectrum Verizon A gets and Verizon B gets? The same for AT&T A and B. How do you ensure that customers still have support for their phone where ever they go, like they do now (for the most part). You'd have to figure out roaming agreements and no company would let non-customers have full, unlimited access on their network nation wide.

It would just be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Sprint filing for Chapter 11 would have killed them. They were already late to the game in regards to voLTE and they would have missed out of the 5G bandwagon. You can't just erase a $33 billion debt and move on like it's no big deal.

As for the corruption, while it's worse with this administration (I never said it wasn't), that's basically what lobbying is (legalized bribing). Guess who is able to do that on a level that the average person can't. There's a reason why companies like Comcast are in the top five for lobbying.

So can Sprint numbers be part of T Mobile Tuesdays and be part of the MLB deal?

Eventually, yes as Sprint is effectively being shut down and all Sprint customers will become T-Mobile customers.
 

mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,022
Eventually, yes as Sprint is effectively being shut down and all Sprint customers will become T-Mobile customers.
"I'm not gonna get the S20 deal because it'll be awhile before Sprint is TMobile and I can't use the MLB deal, I'll get the S10 instead." - Me, one month ago.

maxresdefault.jpg
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
That's the marketing backbone for them. Sacrificing that would definitely be a huge mistake.

No, this is essentially just absorbing Sprint's network coverage into T-Mobiles to make one bigger network with better coverage. In fact, by proxy, a network with better coverage will make support better as their operators won't be tied up with calls about bad coverage :P

There's pretty much no negatives to this merger


Except the T-mobile ceo being ground zero for emoluments violations to get the merger approved.


Literally renting rooms at Trump's DC hotel and making staff and himself wear tmobile regalia.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
And how do you divide that spectrum up? How do you determine what spectrum Verizon A gets and Verizon B gets? The same for AT&T A and B. How do you ensure that customers still have support for their phone where ever they go, like they do now (for the most part). You'd have to figure out roaming agreements and no company would let non-customers have full, unlimited access on their network nation wide.

It would just be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Sprint filing for Chapter 11 would have killed them. They were already late to the game in regards to voLTE and they would have missed out of the 5G bandwagon. You can't just erase a $33 billion debt and move on like it's no big deal.

As for the corruption, while it's worse with this administration (I never said it wasn't), that's basically what lobbying is (legalized bribing). Guess who is able to do that on a level that the average person can't. There's a reason why companies like Comcast are in the top five for lobbying.

That's the DOJ's and FTC's job to figure out. I am not an expert, but given the opportunity the people who are would figure it out.

I'm also not an expert on Sprint's financials but I'm willing to bet their creditors can do a better job running it than Sprint's current leadership, not that was ever a high bar to clear.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
As of now, my phone still works. Don't know when they will cut over to T-Mobile branding. Will watch out for what they do with the sprint store down the road.
Looks like within 3 years, if you are a sprint customer most likely when you purchase a new phone, it'll be on T-Mobile's line as they hope to combine Sprint and T-Mobile together and just be one.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,688
Reno
That's the DOJ's and FTC's job to figure out. IAM not an expert, but given the opportunity the people who are would figure it out.

I'm also not an expert on Sprint's financials but I'm willing to bet their creditors can do a better job running it than Sprint's current leadership, not that was ever a high bar to clear.

The same DOJ and FTC that are corrupt as hell.

As for Sprint, the only thing they hold that's of any value is their spectrum (which is why T-Mobile bought them). That would be the first thing their creditors would sell. Like I said, you can't just erase a $33 billion debt in an instant.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
The same DOJ and FTC that are corrupt as hell.

As for Sprint, the only thing they hold that's of any value is their spectrum (which is why T-Mobile bought them). That would be the first thing their creditors would sell. Like I said, you can't just erase a $33 billion debt in an instant.

You asked me what why plan was in an ideal scenario. In my ideal scenario the DOJ and FTC are competent and well funded.

Do you not know what Chapter 11 is? The debt doesn't go away immediately. The goal is for creditors to right the ship and put the company on the path to paying off the debt while still being viable. It's not a new concept and happens all the time. It may fail, but that's better than not trying and just killing off competition for no reason.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,688
Reno
You asked me what why plan was in an ideal scenario. In my ideal scenario the DOJ and FTC are competent and well funded.

Do you not know what Chapter 11 is? The debt doesn't go away immediately. The goal is for creditors to right the ship and put the company on the path to paying off the debt while still being viable. It's not a new concept and happens all the time. It may fail, but that's better than not trying and just killing off competition for no reason.

In an ideal world, sure that would be fantastic, but Softbank is trying to get rid of Sprint right now, they're trying to get some type of return on their investment (Softbank owned 85% of Sprint before the merger). They don't want to wait as they've lost a lot of money. They can't afford to wait until after the election to see what happens, as they'll just lose more money (and if Trump wins, we're right back in the same spot).

Creditors would want to right the ship and the best way to do that is by selling assets. Sprint has no assets outside of their spectrum that is worth anything (otherwise, they would have sold them off to try to drive the debt down). Guess what would be the first thing that Sprint's creditors would sell, their spectrum (and there's FCC licenses tied up in all of that). Without any spectrum, Sprint would have no option but to either close up shop, pay an ton of money to whomever bought their spectrum to continue using it, or turn into a MVNO type carrier like América Móvil (the owners of Tracfone and Straight Talk).

The whole reason T-Mobile even went down this path is to get their hands on Sprint's spectrum for their 5G network.

Sprint is barely competition. They're behind on things like voLTE (something other carriers have had since 2012), their network is basically useless out of major cities. Their customer service is god awful as well.
 
OP
OP

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
The spectrum wouldn't go anywhere for Sprint. That's not how Chapter 11 works.

For AT&T and Version spectrum would be divided between each new company. I'm not an expert in antitrust though.

The corruption we see now is at an unprecedented level. What other president has so blatantly been bribed without consequences?



We broke up AT&T before and it resulted in some of the most innovative technology and companies in history. The failure was allowing them to merge even after the breakup and now we're back where we started.
I think the biggest changes in my lifetime came from T-Mobile themselves. They dropped contracts first, paid cancellation fees, gave Unilimited a permanent place when the others had dropped it already, rolled all their pricing into one charge with no hidden fees outside the plan number. That stuff is what I remember.
You asked me what why plan was in an ideal scenario. In my ideal scenario the DOJ and FTC are competent and well funded.

Do you not know what Chapter 11 is? The debt doesn't go away immediately. The goal is for creditors to right the ship and put the company on the path to paying off the debt while still being viable. It's not a new concept and happens all the time. It may fail, but that's better than not trying and just killing off competition for no reason.
this is all very "in a different world" instead of what makes sense in the world they're actually dealing with
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
In an ideal world, sure that would be fantastic, but Softbank is trying to get rid of Sprint right now, they're trying to get some type of return on their investment (Softbank owned 85% of Sprint before the merger). They don't want to wait as they've lost a lot of money. They can't afford to wait until after the election to see what happens, as they'll just lose more money (and if Trump wins, we're right back in the same spot).

Creditors would want to right the ship and the best way to do that is by selling assets. Sprint has no assets outside of their spectrum that is worth anything (otherwise, they would have sold them off to try to drive the debt down). Guess what would be the first thing that Sprint's creditors would sell, their spectrum (and there's FCC licenses tied up in all of that). Without any spectrum, Sprint would have no option but to either close up shop, pay an ton of money to whomever bought their spectrum to continue using it, or turn into a MVNO type carrier like América Móvil (the owners of Tracfone and Straight Talk).

The whole reason T-Mobile even went down this path is to get their hands on Sprint's spectrum for their 5G network.

Sprint is barely competition. They're behind on things like voLTE (something other carriers have had since 2012), their network is basically useless out of major cities. Their customer service is god awful as well.

Again, that's not how it works. You're thinking of chapter 7 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is when the creditors become the shareholders like with Delta. The creditors will be able to put in new leadership and cut costs so Sprint can be put on a path to viability.

Yes it might fail, but you're basically saying they shouldn't try and are endorsing crony capitalism and monopolistic practices as the alternative.

TMobile might get better 5G but prices will rise and service will be worse than it has been. All the competition the wireless industry has done will slow down as the big 3 don't have to worry about a 4th competitor.

I think the biggest changes in my lifetime came from T-Mobile themselves. They dropped contracts first, paid cancellation fees, gave Unilimited a permanent place when the others had dropped it already, rolled all their pricing into one charge with no hidden fees outside the plan number. That stuff is what I remember.

this is all very "in a different world" instead of what makes sense in the world they're actually dealing with

All those big wireless changes are gonna stop with this merger. TMobile will no longer have an incentive to compete and will raise prices.

Okay? That doesn't mean what we're getting is a good thing.
 

sgtnosboss

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,786
So are their networks combined like... right now? Sprint works by me and its the only network that does that I am aware of, but it was more expensive than straight talk. Looks like T-mobile can offer me a competitive plan for military discount.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912
Again, that's not how it works. You're thinking of chapter 7 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is when the creditors become the shareholders like with Delta. The creditors will be able to put in new leadership and cut costs so Sprint can be put on a path to viability.

Yes it might fail, but you're basically saying they shouldn't try and are endorsing crony capitalism and monopolistic practices as the alternative.

TMobile might get better 5G but prices will rise and service will be worse than it has been. All the competition the wireless industry has done will slow down as the big 3 don't have to worry about a 4th competitor.
I worked in Distressed Debt.
We would absolutely not want to be the equity owners of Sprint.

Sprint requires significant capital investments to be a viable competitor going forward. Not sure what their bank group looks like, but I doubt many would be interested in throwing good money after bad.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,688
Reno
Again, that's not how it works. You're thinking of chapter 7 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is when the creditors become the shareholders like with Delta. The creditors will be able to put in new leadership and cut costs so Sprint can be put on a path to viability.

Yes it might fail, but you're basically saying they shouldn't try and are endorsing crony capitalism and monopolistic practices as the alternative.

TMobile might get better 5G but prices will rise and service will be worse than it has been. All the competition the wireless industry has done will slow down as the big 3 don't have to worry about a 4th competitor.



All those big wireless changes are gonna stop with this merger. TMobile will no longer have an incentive to compete and will raise prices.

Okay? That doesn't mean what we're getting is a good thing.

That's basically what Softbank did when they bought 85% of Sprint after Dan Hesse's time as CEO. Marcelo Claure replaced Hess as CEO in 2014 and he was replaced by Michael Combs in 2018. Softbank has been trying to sell Sprint for a while now and the only company they could get to even listen to them was T-Mobile. Hell, Dish could have bought Sprint and used the spectrum that they have, combined with Sprint's and built out a pretty good network. Even Dish doesn't want to touch them with that amount of debt.

Where are they going to get the capital to build out their 5G network? Where are they going to get the capital to buy more spectrum, especially in regards to mmWave? You need to be a growing company (meaning gaining new subscribers). That's something Sprint hasn't been able to do in years. Hell, they basically gave away a year of free service and it barely moved their subscriber count. You can't grow as a cellular company if you don't have new customers walking through the door (that's why the vast majority of promotions are targeted at new customers, or require a new line). That's why T-Mobile's Uncarrier moves were so successful, they brought in new subscribers and (in addition to the money they received from AT&T after that merger failed to go through), T-Mobile put that to use to expand their network and buy more spectrum (the 600mhz band was a huge pickup). T-Mobile's network before Legere took over as fucking awful.

Sprint can't do that. As mentioned before, they don't have the capital to run a program like Uncarrier. They tried it with the free service for a year and it did next to nothing. They don't have a capable enough network to draw customers in and they don't have the capital to build out their network, which is what they need to do draw new customers in.

Sprint has been a dead company walking for years. They're still paying for that awful Nextel merger, and that was back in 2005. They made the mistake of investing in WiMax where the rest of the industry was investing in LTE. This forced them behind the ball in regards to LTE adoptation, and they didn't start rolling voLTE out until 2018, four years after the other three. They're were still one of the worst carriers in regards to allowing unlocked devices on their network (along with US Cellular) and trying to get a Sprint phone unlocked is a huge pain in the ass. Their network is basically useless once you leave a major city and the further west you go, the worse it gets. These are all things that put Sprint in the financial mess they're in, and these are all things that aren't easily fixed.

If it was as simple as that, Softbank would have dropped them like a bad habit a long time ago. Nobody wants to touch Sprint due to the massive debt they hold. The only reason T-Mobile even entertained the idea of this is Sprint has something valuable (their spectrum) that T-Mobile needs, and T-Mobile has something valuable that Softbank needs (money and a somewhat decent return on a failed investment).

Sprint's problems aren't something that can easily be fixed by just replacing the board/CEO and saying, let's try again. It would take a serious investment to get them to where they need to be, and that's an investment that a lot of companies don't want to make.

So are their networks combined like... right now? Sprint works by me and its the only network that does that I am aware of, but it was more expensive than straight talk. Looks like T-mobile can offer me a competitive plan for military discount.

Sprint customers have unlimited roaming on T-Mobile's network. T-Mobile customers won't have access to Sprint's network as Sprint's towers are either going to be converted to T-Mobile towers or decommissioned (Dish has first dibs on those towers).
 
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Lunchbox-

Member
Nov 2, 2017
11,871
bEast Coast
by the power of 2 shit services combined we have captain đź’©

just don't raise my tmobile bill now, your coverage is too fucking disgraceful to justify it and sprints towers aren't gonna help