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Oct 27, 2017
767
It makes you wonder where Nintendo would be if they hadn't lost four and a half years by releasing a product as confused as Wii U. I liked it, but it was bizarre how badly mis-marketed it was - tons of people simply weren't aware of it, at least not in the sense that it should be perceived as a new console rather than an overpriced accessory. They didn't even manage to get certain key retailers on-side here.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,626
It makes you wonder where Nintendo would be if they hadn't lost four and a half years by releasing a product as confused as Wii U. I liked it, but it was bizarre how badly mis-marketed it was - tons of people simply weren't aware of it, at least not in the sense that it should be perceived as a new console rather than an overpriced accessory. They didn't even manage to get certain key retailers on-side here.
I suspect their position would be pretty similar. Switch was the right product at the right time, and I don't think the technology to pull their vision off existed particularly far in advance.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
I remember a few years ago when some claimed Minecraft was the go to franchise and the appeal of Mario and Pokémon was only going downhill from there out.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,355
Again. I doubt it. 2021 will be the first full year of the consoles and they are like be sold for 500 bucks.

Compared to a Switch Lite at 149 and a basic Switch at 249....hell many of us expect a Switch Pro by 2021 as well.

Sure it might happen...but i think it's unlikely, that both system can outsell Switch if they are indeed 500usd consoles.

PS4 had its peak year in UK already in 2014 when it was at its highest price. Even with the impressive yoy growth Switch will not reach those numbers this year and this is most likely its peak year. if PS5 in 2021 sells anywhere near PS4 in 2014 it should rather easily sell more than Switch. By 2021 Switch will be already slowing down.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,626
PS4 had its peak year in UK already in 2014 when it was at its highest price.
Do you have any figures for this? Not necessarily doubting you, but that really doesn't track with what I understand the PS4's sales curve to be worldwide, and I'm interested in seeing if the UK's an outlier.

FWIW, I'd be surprised- the UK is a famously price-sensitive market.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,355
Do you have any figures for this? Not necessarily doubting you, but that really doesn't track with what I understand the PS4's sales curve to be worldwide, and I'm interested in seeing if the UK's an outlier.

FWIW, I'd be surprised- the UK is a famously price-sensitive market.

My chart from earlier in this thread:
From recent thread

2019-09-28-3-31-01.jpg

2019-09-28-1-21-32.jpg
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,400
PS4 had its peak year in UK already in 2014 when it was at its highest price. Even with the impressive yoy growth Switch will not reach those numbers this year and this is most likely its peak year. if PS5 in 2021 sells anywhere near PS4 in 2014 it should rather easily sell more than Switch. By 2021 Switch will be already slowing down.

PS4 owned 2014 - but MS messed up the Xbox One launch and Nintendo was a non-factor.
There is much more competition out right now, so i dont know if PS5 selling as much as the PS4 in its first year should be a given...especially at 500 post brexit and with a stronger Xbox division.

The market would have to expand quite a bit, assuming PS4/Xbox One are still gonna sell as well.

PS. I dont really see the Switch slowing down in any mayor way unless Nintendo keeps promoting it or publishing new software. They still have alot of card to play in terms of bundling and price drops. By Holiday 2021 they will probably be able to sell a Switch Lite including a new mainline Pokemon game for 150 if they are aggressive about it.

Even with Scarlet and PS5 incoming its probably gonna stay the most popular "second" choice for people who have one of these systems.
 

Mobu

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
5,932
but some people told me swsh sold less than sun/moon so its a flop.,.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I think Nintendo really should consider a new Mario Kart. Barring the obvious Pokemon games that will come it's the biggest thing they have to continue momentum here. MK8D has done swell but I feel like the time is now for 9.


Yeah, a lot of people seem down on the idea but Mario Kart was on a four year cycle and Nintendo has said they want to be the Switch around for longer than their typical console. If they're serious about a longer console lifespan they could launch MK9 Holiday 2020 or Spring 2021 and still have a new one ready to launch relatively early in the Switch 2's life. Plus they could always do a remaster or deluxe edition at launch to tide people over.

I'm not convinced either way, but if Nintendo wants a longer lifespan Mario Kart 9 would be the perfect way of extending the Switch's. It's insane to me that some many people are 100% convinced there's no way it's happening. I can't imagine they'd go 2014 to 2023 or whatever with no original Mario Kart game.
 

Skyejack

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 30, 2019
615
buh buh but the boycott?! Good job, Nintendo/Gamefreak. Deserved.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Man next Christmas battle of the bastards (Phil & Jim) in UK is going to be fun. Have no clue how it's going to turn out, but will be there with the popcorn lol.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,355
PS4 owned 2014 - but MS messed up the Xbox One launch and Nintendo was a non-factor.
There is much more competition out right now, so i dont know if PS5 selling as much as the PS4 in its first year should be a given...especially at 500 post brexit and with a stronger Xbox division.

The market would have to expand quite a bit, assuming PS4/Xbox One are still gonna sell as well.
Xbox One actually had pretty high 2014 sales in UK with over 1 million units sold. Also Xbox division is actually in way weaker position when it comes to marketshare/mindshare than it was when Xbox One launched (X360 dominated the late gen of last generation in UK). So it's actually opposite situation. Sony launching PS5 with higher mindshare than they did had with PS4 and for MS the opposite. Brexit is good point though but almost impossible to predict.

PS. I dont really see the Switch slowing down in any mayor way unless Nintendo keeps promoting it or publishing new software. They still have alot of card to play in terms of bundling and price drops.
Even with Scarlet and PS5 incoming its probably gonna stay the most popular "second" choice for people who have one of these systems.

Historically almost every single console peaked in its third full FY (so this FY for Switch). Then fourth FY they might almost match those sales but after that sales start to slow down more. Of course individual markets might differ like UK where PS4 peaked already in 2014. Also during late gen price drops don't increase the sales anymore to peak levels They just keep sales from dropping even more than they would otherwise. Even if Sony had launched super Slim at 199€ this FY they would had not shipped same amount of consoles as in 2016 when PS4 was 299-349€. I mean never say never but it's almost sure thing that at least globally Switch will already sell less in 2021 than it does this year.
 

AxkilAvenger

Banned
Apr 8, 2018
1,641
Xbox One actually had pretty high 2014 sales in UK with over 1 million units sold. Also Xbox division is actually in way weaker position when it comes to marketshare/mindshare than it was when Xbox One launched (X360 dominated the late gen of last generation in UK). So it's actually opposite situation. Sony launching PS5 with higher mindshare than they did had with PS4 and for MS the opposite. Brexit is good point though but almost impossible to predict.



Historically almost every single console peaked in its third full FY (so this FY for Switch). Then fourth FY they might almost match those sales but after that sales start to slow down more. Of course individual markets might differ like UK where PS4 peaked already in 2014. Also during late gen price drops don't increase the sales anymore to peak levels They just keep sales from dropping even more than they would otherwise. Even if Sony had launched super Slim at 199€ this FY they would had not shipped same amount of consoles as in 2016 when PS4 was 299-349€. I mean never say never but it's almost sure thing that at least globally Switch will already sell less in 2021 than it does this year.
I keep Using this counter point to the switch potential sales slow down. We've never seen a hybrid console from Nintendo with them putting their full weight behind it. This hypothetical slow down in sales for Switch in its 3 or 4th year is just a wild guess imo
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,344
There's been previous articles like this in the UK and they hold true... Right up until Black Friday and the Christmas shopping spree.

That said, It'd be interesting if it does happen.
PS4 will likely have good deals during BF. Nintendo consoles...not so much. In any case, good to hear Nintendo is doing well in the UK.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,400
Xbox One actually had pretty high 2014 sales in UK with over 1 million units sold. Also Xbox division is actually in way weaker position when it comes to marketshare/mindshare than it was when Xbox One launched (X360 dominated the late gen of last generation in UK). So it's actually opposite situation. Sony launching PS5 with higher mindshare than they did had with PS4 and for MS the opposite. Brexit is good point though but almost impossible to predict.


Historically almost every single console peaked in its third full FY (so this FY for Switch). Then fourth FY they might almost match those sales but after that sales start to slow down more. Of course individual markets might differ like UK where PS4 peaked already in 2014. Also during late gen price drops don't increase the sales anymore to peak levels They just keep sales from dropping even more than they would otherwise. Even if Sony had launched super Slim at 199€ this FY they would had not shipped same amount of consoles as in 2016 when PS4 was 299-349€. I mean never say never but it's almost sure thing that at least globally Switch will already sell less in 2021 than it does this year.

To the first part - i think MS momentum right now is actually comparable if not better than during the 360--> One transition.
Hardcore players already felt neglected during the last 2 years because MS went full Kinect/Casual and Sony won alot of favors because of games like TLOU and the whole PS+ game library thing. Similar to how MS is gaining alot of favor right now because of GamePass, Crossbuy/play, xCloud, full BC etc. They are def. in a better position than they were last generation - just based on price, competitive hardware and marketing.

To your second point - Switch isnt you standard console either. Fact is the standard Switch has yet to receive a price drop nearly 3 years in - this is also the system that will continue to get Nintendo full support. They are also flexible in terms of how and when they can introduce a more powerful Switch - the same way we saw it with the n3DS, PS4Pro or the One X.

By 2021 i expect Nintendo to have 3 Switch models on the market between Lite(very cheap, entry level), standard and Pro system.

Nintendo has usually the most price sensitive userbase - getting the Switch price down even more will absolutely have a strong impact on what they are able to sell in coming years. The Switch is selling well - but its actually expensive for a Nintendo console. Lite is doing well - but its expensive for a Nintendo handheld.

I think the overall market based on the target audience would react stronger to a very cheap Nintendo system compared to a cheap(er) Playstation - for the male core gamer audience a 50 buck price drop 6 years in wont make or break a purchase and more than one PS4 per household is unlikely. 50 bucks on a system for the Kids or a second Switch for the family household can be a big deal and seems like something Nintendo is willing to push.

Next year and beyond will be interesting - people expect the Switch sales to suddenly take a nosedive....i dont think we have seen the full sales potential of the plattform yet.
 

Phil32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,568
That's really astounding how well the PS4 performed in the UK to hold the title for four straight years. Truly impressive!
Congrats to Nintendo and the Switch since the UK isn't exactly--to my knowledge--one of Nintendo's best regions sales-wise.
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,344
I know Nintendo has a bunch of evergreen titles still charting, but we're nearly three years into the system. It's time for some £20 Nintendo Selects games.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,315
Jordan
Third parties be like: "Yeah but it will fail eventually. Or... or... it's a kids console, only 5 or 6 year olds buy it. Or... Nintendo won't pay us or help us, but they have to. Look we just don't want to develop for the system, alright? We want money but not like that."

It will die eventually, when all the fanboys buy it no one will be left :P
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
makes total sense, PS4 is an old piece of tech

next year the king will return

Lol good luck with that. PS5 won't outsell Switch until 2021 and even then it's not a lock as more Switch models and probable price cuts will accompany Breath of the Wild 2 and the next 3D Mario aswell as all the evergreen Switch software going into 2021.
 

Zorg1000

Banned
Jul 22, 2019
1,750
I'm not sure if it's still the case but the GBA was still ahead last time I saw a comparison.
GBA as of Sept 30, 2003-42.15 million
NSW as of Sept 30,2019-41.67 million

It's not a completely 1:1 comparison since NSW has a global launch while GBA was staggered (JP-March, West-June).

Looking ahead NSW should take the lead next quarter as GBA shipped 7.27m while NSW could have a 10m+ quarter.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,355
To the first part - i think MS momentum right now is actually comparable if not better than during the 360--> One transition.
Hardcore players already felt neglected during the last 2 years because MS went full Kinect/Casual and Sony won alot of favors because of games like TLOU and the whole PS+ game library thing. Similar to how MS is gaining alot of favor right now because of GamePass, Crossbuy/play, xCloud, full BC etc. They are def. in a better position than they were last generation - just based on price, competitive hardware and marketing.

Looking at the sales of Xbox One I disagree. Even with all the positive PR the actual sales of Xbox hw peaked very early (like 2014/2015) and after that the curve has been downwards and way lower than end gen X360/Ps3 sales. On the opposite end of the spectrum even with slowing PS4 sales it's still going to hit peak X360/PS4 yearly sales this FY despite sales slowing down (shows how huge success it was). PS5 is launching from way better position than even PS4. MS might have better relations with hardcore crowd than at the end of last gen but I am not sure how that translates to sales with mainstream audience. Especially as MS has started to publish all their games on PC as well. Great for consumers but one less reason to buy Xbox.

To your second point - Switch isnt you standard console either. Fact is the standard Switch has yet to receive a price drop nearly 3 years in - this is also the system that will continue to get Nintendo full support. They are also flexible in terms of how and when they can introduce a more powerful Switch - the same way we saw it with the n3DS, PS4Pro or the One X.

By 2021 i expect Nintendo to have 3 Switch models on the market between Lite(very cheap, entry level), standard and Pro system.

Nintendo has usually the most price sensitive userbase - getting the Switch price down even more will absolutely have a strong impact on what they are able to sell in coming years. The Switch is selling well - but its actually expensive for a Nintendo console. Lite is doing well - but its expensive for a Nintendo handheld.

I think the overall market based on the target audience would react stronger to a very cheap Nintendo system compared to a cheap Playstation - foe the male core gamer audience a 50buck price drop 6 years in wont make or break a purchase. 50 bucks on a system for the Kids or a second Switch for the family household can be a big deal.

I am not just sure why Switch being hybrid will somehow give it better legs than even PS4 (Switch being in peak form in 2021 would indicate that). I mean every single console gen PS systems have had far longer end gen tails than Nintendo systems. Regarding of price you have to factor inflation. $199 in 2019 is actually very low price and Switch is not going to hit the price tags of old handhelds as it's becomes harder and harder every year (just like PS4 is not going to hit end gen price tags of PS1 or PS2). 3DS is actually good example of how after certain point price becomes smaller and smaller issue. it peaked after the huge price drop very early in its life (to $169). During late gen years 3DS got to even as low as $79 with game and it never came close to its peak numbers.
 

Mr_F_Snowman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,881
"Momentum" has proven utterly meaningless from gen to gen in large part

If the PS5 and Xbox whatever are going to be basically the same spec but for example, Xbox undercuts by 50 and includes loads of launch titles free via packing in 6 months Gamepass....

Momentum can shift pretty fast
 

PirateKingERA

Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,122
Houston, Texas
It makes you wonder where Nintendo would be if they hadn't lost four and a half years by releasing a product as confused as Wii U. I liked it, but it was bizarre how badly mis-marketed it was - tons of people simply weren't aware of it, at least not in the sense that it should be perceived as a new console rather than an overpriced accessory. They didn't even manage to get certain key retailers on-side here.
It's a good thing they learnt from it and gave us something oh so so so good.
 

Lugia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
479
I bought a Switch the day they confirmed that the next Pokemon would be there.

Same. I've never been a fan of Zelda and Mario games, and I still havent bought mario odyssey and BOTW. I only got mario kat and occasionally play with friends or family. I get more excited and immersed playing Pokemon games.
 

m051293

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,658
Sales were up 75% during the week before Pokémon launch and 30% during launch week.
- 90 000 Switch were sold in November so far

So weekly sales can be estimated.

W-E

11/3: 22,500
11/10: 39,200 (+75%)
11/17: 51,000 (+30%)

That gives us 90,000 for the two November weeks with the current week and next week yet to come.
 

Twinguistics

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
478
Weird as I've only ever seen one other switch out in the wild in the UK and that was on the bus. Never in a cafe or likewise ever in over two years. Most all just be playing at home.
 

PillFencer

Banned
Nov 15, 2018
2,431
It's insane to me that some many people are 100% convinced there's no way it's happening. I can't imagine they'd go 2014 to 2023 or whatever with no original Mario Kart game.
That's exactly what they'll do, same for Rockstar with GTA. When you have an online game selling 7.5 (15 for GTA) million units every year with no sign of stopping, there is no reason to release a new one.
 
Last edited:

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,914
Yeah, a lot of people seem down on the idea but Mario Kart was on a four year cycle and Nintendo has said they want to be the Switch around for longer than their typical console. If they're serious about a longer console lifespan they could launch MK9 Holiday 2020 or Spring 2021 and still have a new one ready to launch relatively early in the Switch 2's life. Plus they could always do a remaster or deluxe edition at launch to tide people over.

I'm not convinced either way, but if Nintendo wants a longer lifespan Mario Kart 9 would be the perfect way of extending the Switch's. It's insane to me that some many people are 100% convinced there's no way it's happening. I can't imagine they'd go 2014 to 2023 or whatever with no original Mario Kart game.
Mario Kart 8 DX is the Switch's Mario Kart game. MK9 will be a Switch 2 game.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
"Momentum" has proven utterly meaningless from gen to gen in large part
Not really. Momentum has always been pretty important for the start of a generation. Of course it´s not going to carry you alone if you shit the bed but that goes without saying. And so far Sony has all the momentum in the world while Microsofts sales and mindshare are at rock bottom. If Sony doesn´t botcher the launch this will be a very easy win.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
Going to be tough for Sony,MS to launch super expensive consoles next year with the Switch cheaper and on fire - wonder if Breath of the Wild 2, Pokemon Let's Go! 2 show up?!?
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
It's the biggest franchise in the world and inarguably Nintendo's biggest franchise so yeah, it's not a surprise. Maybe these people will branch out and play those games though.

If you mean outside of games, yes, Pokemon is much bigger than Mario. In games, no. Mario is bigger, outsold Pokemon on both DS, 3DS and so on.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
It makes you wonder where Nintendo would be if they hadn't lost four and a half years by releasing a product as confused as Wii U. I liked it, but it was bizarre how badly mis-marketed it was - tons of people simply weren't aware of it, at least not in the sense that it should be perceived as a new console rather than an overpriced accessory. They didn't even manage to get certain key retailers on-side here.

I dont think things would much more different for Nintendo than they are now, I mean when were they after Wii/DS succes?
Wii U is product that lead to Switch, not just that from start with Wii U they wanted something more like Switch (but tech wasnt ready yet),
but they also learn on mistakes they made with Wii U.


Switch will outsell the Wii U + 3DS combined. Even if it doesn't, it has remained more profitable than those systems due to high attach rates, increased digital sales, and the Online Subscription.

Wii U + 3DS LTD = ~90 million
Switch LTD (under three years in) = ~42 million, and it should end the FY closer to 50 million

Switch will probably pass 50m at end of December, not to mention FY (end of March 2020.).