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SW: Fallen Order's Protagonist is a guy because of Rey; no alien protag so people aren't "alienated"
- Thread starter Deepwater
- Start date
Um, the OT had Lando and a bunch of minorities as extras and pilots after ANH. The prequels had Samuel L. Jackson. We're past the point of token representation being something that should be applauded for.
I like how "alien" was considered before "not white." I'm constantly in awe that fantasy races are more conceivable to white people than actual people of color.
I can't front, when I saw the protagonist and first story trailer my excitement kinda plummeted. The gameplay looks fun enough though and it's Respawn so I'm still in.
Read my edit, if you can't spot the very explicit difference between representation in the OT vs. the ST/new SW media then you need to pay much more attention as they're not at all subtle about it. I'm not saying it's perfect mind you, but they have absolutely been in overdrive.
i'm very much aware. That doesn't mean that we should decry a dev everytime they cast a white actor to play the lead. That decision alone is not something deserving of ire. Context matters. I noticed that no one acknowledged my lengthy post about how that level of reductionism is harmful.
you literally have an avatar of Finn for fucks sake.
and literally the last star wars game had a woman PoC as the protagonist.
there is the diego luna tv series on the work
the mandalorian coming this year.
how the fuck is that "token representation" ????
It's a face of an actual person so...
I don't think you can design it any further. Should have added some stuff I guess like earrings, tattoos or scars.
Not to mention Ezra and Kazuda are very clearly PoC who were the leads of their own show. Like, to call Disney's effort to diversify the SW IP because one game has a white protagonist is to be blunt fucking idiotic, especially when several of the creatives have literally received harassment for being involved with the project.
They actually did add a scar.
Yeah definitely.
It just seemed odd to me to be called generic when it's an actual person's face.
Oh I didn't notice.
I had to actually look for it. If it's the one on his neck that runs to his right cheek it's actually pretty unassuming since it's barely on his face. I would prefer it if they made it longer.
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They literally had the lead in battlefront 2 be a woman. A strong soldier/killer character.
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Cantina. Spaceport. Cloud City. Heroes in space battle in RotJ. Like, wtf are you even talking about?
Did you mean in games??? Did you miss the endless stream of NPCs that are aliens and PoC in KOTOR?
I was going to say that's just Dash Rendar, but thinking about it that could be a great setup.
Basically reboot /remake Shadows of the Empire and re-canonize Dash kind of like how they did Thrawn.
Crossing Eden, why are you going so hard to bat for this game? You usually don't cape for this kind of bullshit.
I seriously don't know why you quoted that article piece when it just regurgitated what I said. There have been no diversity leads in any of the SW films, the only change now has been more women leads, white woman of course. Finn came close in TFA, but TLJ swatted his ass back down to that of a supporting character with every other minority in the franchise's history. We've had zero PoC leads in a SW film or game (unless you count player created characters). So, please spare me this nonsense. Respawn putting two black people as supporting characters is not some "overdrive" effort that should be applauded. Lucas was doing that shit since back in 1980 so I'm not impressed when corporate hacks decades later think their being progressive by shoving a few more colored folk in the background while refusing to cast them as actual leads.
1. Not the lead.
2. Wow, one game in the history of Star Wars. Also, a shitty short campaign that couldn't even focus its story on that character.
3. And?
4. And?
I don't see how any of that has to do with this game refusing to cast a female lead because as the developers put it, "Rey is already out there." Y'all keep jumping hoops to ignore this simple fact. THEY. SAID. NO. FEMALE. CAUSE. REY. EXISTS.
The day of the reveal I was walking around the office with "oh yay another blonde white boy saves the galaxy!" And people thought I was hating on the game, haha (Im not, its gonna be dope)
🆗
Emphasis on PoC and women explicitly appearing in the background , not just aliens. I suppose a perfect example of this would be this:
If that scene were made today it would look very very different.
That would literally be taking a game and fitting the character into the well established trope of aged experienced characters. And SW is usually form the perspective of young people because that's the target audience. But y'all apparently want to ignore that the last game did this:
Evidently most people on this forum outside of the OT for the game didn't play Battlefront 2.
Honestly, I'm disappointed by the white male protagonist but the game looks fun and Star Wars has been REALLY good with diversity since Disney took over so if they want one thing with a white male lead I'm not super upset over it. It's (as far as I know) the only non-legacy spin-off with a white make lead since Disney took over. Both cartoons have POC leads, the only new game prior has a POC lead, the only original character-lead comic (Doctor Aphra) ha a POC lead, Galaxy Edge's main original characters are all POC or aliens, the movies (besides Solo) have all had female leads.
I'd prefer a female lead or an alien lead but I don't think this is terrible. Their argument isn't great for why (unless they did color blind casting I wasn't aware of) and it feels like a retread of Kanan but... I just can't bring myself to be mad here.
It would have been cool to have a twi'lek lead again, though.
I'd prefer a female lead or an alien lead but I don't think this is terrible. Their argument isn't great for why (unless they did color blind casting I wasn't aware of) and it feels like a retread of Kanan but... I just can't bring myself to be mad here.
It would have been cool to have a twi'lek lead again, though.
I mean Rey is shit, wondering if Disney didn't want the game having the better written protagonist to steal away Rey's I'll gotten thunder.
"Many" lol. More like loud.
Not to mention these people tend to be rather whiny and throw temper tantrums at the mere mention of TLJ. And far far far too often have alt right talking points when you ask them for details why they feel that way.
So nah. Star Wars fandom is way better without the "Not muh Luke" types. We will keep on enjoying Star Wars without 'em just fine.
I don't get it, were you sarcastic or were you genuinely excited to play white boy jedi again?
We just had a thread on it where everyone more or less shat on it. I thought Iden was a great character and it bums me out that people dismiss that campaign. I found it very enjoyable.
In the films but they've made multiple shows with leads who were PoC. Second, casting women as the leads in a film franchise that was predominently led by men IS an explicit example of diversity and hello, Rey isn't the only lead of the new films. Finn and Poe are the leads as well. Not to mention Rose was very clearly one of the leads of TLJ.
You not liking the story does not=Finn is now a supporting character. He's still very much a lead in TLJ as Canto Bight is explicitly about his development as a character. You would have had a better arguing point about Poe not being very prominent in TFA.
I'm talking about the franchise in general but I suppose we jut gonna ignore the part where Disney's efforts for diversity have been so blatnt that multiple actresses, writers, and creative have been targeted as a result and there are several hundred youtube channels about how Disney has SJWfied the universe.
Iden Versio is not white and this was literally the last SW game:
extra points for being one of quite literally the only instances of having a playable woman be old in a video game, let alone one who has a child and husband,
you know those that execs used to explicitly say no to. Man Disney is REALLY going for that GG audiences fellas. /s
the current star wars trilogy, the rogue one movie, the last big star wars game, the last star wars tv show and the 2 upcoming tv shows all have non white male leads.
the only white male lead we've seen in star wars major media in the past 10 years was in solo and clone wars, and that was something that could obviously not have been changed because they were based on existing ancient characters.
given that I just don't see how it's reasonable to complain about the fallen order protagonist or to even think it somehow needs to be justified. it's fine honestly. lucasfilm is doing fine concerning diversity.
the only white male lead we've seen in star wars major media in the past 10 years was in solo and clone wars, and that was something that could obviously not have been changed because they were based on existing ancient characters.
given that I just don't see how it's reasonable to complain about the fallen order protagonist or to even think it somehow needs to be justified. it's fine honestly. lucasfilm is doing fine concerning diversity.
This is what bugs me about almost all sci fi and fantasy games. All the creative opportunities in the world and we're almost always stuck playing a human or extremely humanoid character. I understand in old television shows where for budget reasons alien = person in a costume but now it's just annoying.
Although I guess looking at MMOs, they're not strictly wrong about audiences preferring humans. They're the most picked in WoW, FFXIV and plenty of others. Basically what I'm saying is if you pick humans in games you fucking suck
Although I guess looking at MMOs, they're not strictly wrong about audiences preferring humans. They're the most picked in WoW, FFXIV and plenty of others. Basically what I'm saying is if you pick humans in games you fucking suck
I mean, that part is very disappointing. Im bored of playing the same main character in every game.
However, it doesnt belong with the "I heard you didnt like the trailer" coworkers threw my way. Game will be great, boring main character choice notwithstanding.
We've already been through this. Having one PoC lead in the entirety of Star Wars is not a defense for why they can't have anymore and immediately jumped back to white male lead. You keep dancing back between the same arguments every time one is easily swatted down.
It's odd. Especially propping up his mentor as if that does anything for people like me who just might want to play a Star Wars game about someone who looks like them.
this is such bullshit
i literally listed several PoC leads
and you were like
"AND? AND?
what does have this to do with this game durr durr?!"
So now we've become so toxic and unreasonable that Poe and Finn are not the co-leads of the ST? 🤔 It's almost like I made a compelling argument about why heavy reductionism is fucking harmful and hurts the cause more than it helps. You look ridiculous right now. If your response to every effort is "AND?" because of one game then you're not arguing in good faith.
We've already established that Iden is not. If anything it's the exact opposite. Ever since Disney took over this is literally the first big piece of media, (aside from Solo and CW), to feature a white guy as the main protagonist. You cannot just outright ignore all of their efforts as a result of one game.
Avellone is just one of the writers, not the main one.
Rebels.
Wake me when you do something interesting with the Star Wars universe.
Your argument was "hey, they've decided to make two series (not out yet) with Hispanics as leads, therefore it's fine that Fallen Order has a white male lead as the diversity quota has been filled."
It's a ridiculous argument, hence the "and?" So the fuck what? You realize the series has never had a PoC as a Jedi Lead?
I think what bugs me more than Cam's cameo, is Stig's explanation.
Crossing Eden Objectively, whilst SWBF II did feature a female PoC, what do you believe is the reason why so many people completely forget about it? And how much does the whole,lootbox Surprise Mechanics debacle contribute to the overshadowing of the campaign?
Also, and this my personal anecdote, the majority of the ads I saw for SWBF II were MP related. Thus, to me, their marketing budget did not come across as trying to tell me a SP story as much as selling me on a worthwhile successor to SWBF I.
Crossing Eden Objectively, whilst SWBF II did feature a female PoC, what do you believe is the reason why so many people completely forget about it? And how much does the whole,
Also, and this my personal anecdote, the majority of the ads I saw for SWBF II were MP related. Thus, to me, their marketing budget did not come across as trying to tell me a SP story as much as selling me on a worthwhile successor to SWBF I.
That is the dumbest line of reasoning I've heard in awhile. You literally have one female lead protagonist for a SW and WHOOPS! we need another dude.
therefore is fine?!
when the fuck did i say that to you??
you were the one arguing that "token diveristy" hur hur
i listed you the PoC leads but they werent good enough for some reason.
Ezra is PoC so you keep lying your ass off
I read and write homoerotic fan fiction so I feel like I'm very, very good at reading gay subtext into media even when it wasn't intentional on the writers' part. In the case of Syndicate, though? I honestly did not think Jacob was anything but straight until I saw that tweet. It was hinted at at best (and that's me being generous) but it most certainly was not in any way explicit. So yeah, they absolutely were too subtle about it and I'm pretty sure it's because they were scared of an explicitly LGBTQ protagonist hurting their bottom line. That probably wasn't up to the writer, though, and I do appreciate what he was trying to do here.
As for the archetype stuff, I did see that post and I agree up to a point, though, personality-wise, he doesn't appear to be too far off the Nathan Drake formula of wisecracking adventure hero. But at the end of the day, he is (presumably) a non-disabled, straight, white, cis male protagonist when they could have easily made him deviate from the norm. I'm not saying, of course, that devs are not allowed to make games with those kinds of protagonists but when you're trying to then sell that choice to the public using ludicrous reasons such as "there's recently been a female protagonist in this franchise that mostly features male protagonists so there can't be another female protagonist", I think it's fair to criticise it. It makes it sound like the only reason you went with this type of protagonist was that you couldn't go with someone less generic. Which, that may be true for the devs (EA and/or Disney may well have mandated what kind of main character they wanted) but if it is, they should either just be honest and say that it was a decision made for commercial and marketing reasons (I know they won't but they should) or not say anything at all. That is why people are criticising how "generic" the main character is in this thread (despite him maybe being less generic than other typical white male game protagonists), because not only could they have gone with a female protagonist if they had wanted to, there would've been many other more interesting choices even if a female protagonist had been off the table.
I'm all about playing alien characters but in this case I think it's good that they chose a humanoid.
If it's gonna be a cinematic narrative driven game especially one that needs a facial motion capture, it's gonna be hard to translate emotions on vastly different looking facial structures. I'm not saying it can't be done since we just got a Pikachu movie with Ryan Reynolds doing that. The thing with Pikachu is that it's relatively close to a human facial structure. What about Aliens with a elephant like nose or some of the aliens posted earlier by Crossing Eden.
They've had more than one. Bf2 had a women poc as a lead. All this outrage from people not even playing Star Wars games.
We've already been through this. Having one PoC lead in the entirety of Star Wars is not a defense for why they can't have anymore and immediately jumped back to white male lead. You keep dancing back between the same arguments every time one is easily swatted down.
Also Fin Poe and Rose are definitely supporting cast leads. Ofcourse Ray and Kilo are the main leads but combined fin Poe and Rose got equal if not more screen time so it's really not laughable at all and makes you seem like you're barely paying attention.
Iden Versio got her own book and even a Lego set, she was a somewhat big deal and it's kinda disingenuous to pretend she wasn't
that said this guy's comments are just kinda silly, as if we can't have another character of the same gender as the current main character of the movies, considering Kyle Katarn and Revan (canonically male) 'n all that. Hell, Jyn Erso was a female protagonist in one of the movies in between the sequel trilogy even.
Also there are plenty of Star Wars aliens that look human enough, the Twi'lek in particular. Unless he'd say Ahsoka alienated the audience, which would be downright hilarious.
It'd have been better if he said literally nothing, everyone can see through this sort of "reasoning".
that said this guy's comments are just kinda silly, as if we can't have another character of the same gender as the current main character of the movies, considering Kyle Katarn and Revan (canonically male) 'n all that. Hell, Jyn Erso was a female protagonist in one of the movies in between the sequel trilogy even.
Also there are plenty of Star Wars aliens that look human enough, the Twi'lek in particular. Unless he'd say Ahsoka alienated the audience, which would be downright hilarious.
It'd have been better if he said literally nothing, everyone can see through this sort of "reasoning".