She played both idols in case any of Tony/Sandra/Kim threw a vote on Jeremy. It was ultimately an unnecessary precaution, but I can understand her logic. She didn't want to miss her shot.
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Survivor 40: Winners at War |OT| 20 Years. 20 Winners. $2 MILLION PRIZE.
- Thread starter SoleSurvivor
- Start date
She played both idols in case any of Tony/Sandra/Kim threw a vote on Jeremy. It was ultimately an unnecessary precaution, but I can understand her logic. She didn't want to miss her shot.
Yeah, you cannot let Sandra leave that tribal council alive if you're going for her.
Anyone saying that play was bad is simply fucking terrible at tribal math or literally thinks there's no possibility that Sandra was trying to play Denise.
Per Denise, Sandra went to her before tribal and told her that she wanted the vote on Jeremy and not Tony, also. IE: There was actually a VERY good chance in Denise's mind that someone throws a vote for Jeremy just to make sure things go that way.
Denise was smart not to play the odds, even if they worked out regardless.
Per Denise, Sandra went to her before tribal and told her that she wanted the vote on Jeremy and not Tony, also. IE: There was actually a VERY good chance in Denise's mind that someone throws a vote for Jeremy just to make sure things go that way.
Denise was smart not to play the odds, even if they worked out regardless.
She is now in a split tribe with no idol and a target on her back. I'm not so sure that is better than being in a 3/1 tribe with an idol if they did go after Jeremy. She went from having basically no chance of being voted out next to a high chance she is voted out next if her tribe were to lose the immunity challenge. Burning an idol on someone else doesn't make much sense unless it leads to a power shift. In this case it didn't lead to much of anything.
You're ignoring any possibility that Denise was being played, she thought the idol was fake(it was the really shitty looking one and she had a real idol to compare it to), or that Jeremy was going to be voted out anyways and Sandra was trying to earn points or keep Denise for herself. On top of that it's ignoring the Dakal - Sele original tribe numbers and she could be worried about keeping those numbers closer in line since they're already down 2 or so.
Using the idol was just insurance. I'm guessing she went to tribal already ready to have to play her idol in case Sandra's was fake, so she just used it on Jeremy to make sure a Former Dakal went. Now she can go back and tell Tony and Kim, two players who will most likely respect the move, of how she got the idol and that she was leaving it to Denise to vote out Tony.
She's in a MUCH better position than she would've been in a 3/1. Voting out Sandra also makes it much more likely that they win the next challenge, since nobody would get to sit. It gets her into a better position later in the game, it still gives her a shield if she needs it next tribal, she obviously doesn't know that Jeremy can save himself ofc, and it meant her plan could not backfire no matter what was a lie or a truth last night.
Denise isn't the idiot that is leaving the game with an idol in her pocket. There was a non-negligible chance that that could've happened last night if she didn't use both.
Wasted an idol, but made a huge move.
Sandra was more dangerous than Tony. She is such a great player. Nobody trusts Tony with his history of shenanigans so he'll be a target soon enough.
I knew Rob and Sandra were going to be targets. When you got a shot, take it. A season full of winners were smart enough to know that.
Sandra was more dangerous than Tony. She is such a great player. Nobody trusts Tony with his history of shenanigans so he'll be a target soon enough.
I knew Rob and Sandra were going to be targets. When you got a shot, take it. A season full of winners were smart enough to know that.
I think it was the best play. Denise and Sandra play similar games of survival. They don't make for a good pair. They wouldn't be long term allies. Not to mention Sandra has always been happy to backstab. Why on earth would you trust her for a moment?
Far better to knock out Sandra. Plus Kim probably won't go to rocks for Tony. She'll vote him out to avoid a 2/2 split.
Far better to knock out Sandra. Plus Kim probably won't go to rocks for Tony. She'll vote him out to avoid a 2/2 split.
The thing people often don't take into account when evaluating how good a move is is that we have the full picture. We know Jeremy got no votes, and that Sandra was telling Denise the truth. We have a birds eye view of the game. Denise didn't know whether Sandra was fucking with her, and all it would have taken is one vote on Jeremy to screw over Denise. Not to mention it makes logical sense for the group to put one vote on Jeremy incase an idol comes into play. So from Denise's perspective it makes all the sense in the world to play the idol for Jeremy, because if Sandra is playing smart Jeremy would have one vote.
Yeah. There is just so many perspectives to see this from that makes the variables just hard to tell. That's why everyone just said it was an insurance play because there was just way too many variables that could make it funky. Even if Denise was 100% sure Sandra was real with her, who is to say that Tony or Kim aren't worried about an idol play getting them booted? Especially if either of them know where Jeremy's vote is and that they could safely put a vote on Jeremy just to be sure? There was just way too many variables to try to say this was a clear cut bad move. The main detail to think about is that Denise couldn't have it go to revote. Not using the second idol makes that instantly more likely.
OUTSTANDING
Top tier Survivor right there. RIP the goddess Parvati, but the Queen got taken out. Denise was cold blooded.
For anyone questioning Denise, I'm going to reference a play from Heroes vs Villains that quite honestly is legendary as fuck and the exact same.
Necessity and loyalty. That's how I see it.
Also in my opinion, all the extra mechanics can make it really hard to go back to a really hard to go back to an older season of survivor if you've never watched an older season. Like, go watch Micronesia, where the only "advantage" is 1 Hidden Immunity idol that you can only get from Exile Island and it only gets reset if that player holding it (assuming it gets found) uses it or gets voted out without using it. And that's only up until a certain point in the game where you can't use it anymore.
JT had no real reason to give that idol. He made a pretty baseless assumption (girls vs guys alliance because there were more girls on the tribe to guys) to play a ridiculously long game (Russel will join their alliance at the merge) and got savagely conned out of it.
In both scenarios, it was a situation of buying future loyalty with assumed security and no need for the idol, but Sandra had way more to gain out of it and way more details to go off of when making her move. JT didn't for either of them.
Top tier Survivor right there. RIP the goddess Parvati, but the Queen got taken out. Denise was cold blooded.
For anyone questioning Denise, I'm going to reference a play from Heroes vs Villains that quite honestly is legendary as fuck and the exact same.
Necessity and loyalty. That's how I see it.
Just because it's a veterans season, mostly. These guys all have previous storylines and "character arcs" that pay off and play into their alliances far beyond just this standard season. Rob's played with at least like, 4 members of the cast prior to this and is married to one of them, for example.
Also in my opinion, all the extra mechanics can make it really hard to go back to a really hard to go back to an older season of survivor if you've never watched an older season. Like, go watch Micronesia, where the only "advantage" is 1 Hidden Immunity idol that you can only get from Exile Island and it only gets reset if that player holding it (assuming it gets found) uses it or gets voted out without using it. And that's only up until a certain point in the game where you can't use it anymore.
I'd also like to throw Heroes vs Villains into the ring.
Yes and no. Sandra was giving away a dead idol to get fire tokens. She didn't think she was going to get voted out, but it wouldn't last past that council so if she wouldn't need it and it wouldn't have any use, then give it to someone to buy loyalty and get something in return.
JT had no real reason to give that idol. He made a pretty baseless assumption (girls vs guys alliance because there were more girls on the tribe to guys) to play a ridiculously long game (Russel will join their alliance at the merge) and got savagely conned out of it.
In both scenarios, it was a situation of buying future loyalty with assumed security and no need for the idol, but Sandra had way more to gain out of it and way more details to go off of when making her move. JT didn't for either of them.
She JT'd herself. Gave her idol away to another player and got booted when it was used against her.
Worse than that, she Erik'd herself! Gave away guaranteed immunity at the next council, making herself vulnerable when she didn't have to, and immediately got booted at that tribal council.
Her motivations were not nearly as dumb as either of those two guys, it's true. And her legacy won't be diminished. But the end result is the same. Ousted.
Worse than that, she Erik'd herself! Gave away guaranteed immunity at the next council, making herself vulnerable when she didn't have to, and immediately got booted at that tribal council.
Her motivations were not nearly as dumb as either of those two guys, it's true. And her legacy won't be diminished. But the end result is the same. Ousted.
Her idol expired after this tribal council. She was trying to turn a nearly dead idol into fire tokens and an ally.
Yes. I understand that. The idol was still valid at this tribal council. Had she simply kept it and used it for herself, she would still be in the game. I know what she was trying to do. She took a risk and got burned.
The idol wasn't dead yet. That there was no insurance vote is insane. She got full of herself and got burned for it badly. Giving the idol to your enemy was a huge mistake even if she survived.
I'm not saying she wasn't completely full of herself and got played because of it. I just don't think trying to get something out of her idol before it expired at a time when she wouldn't normally need it isn't automatically bad. Her downfall was wanting to keep her hands clean, not necessarily the selling of the idol. She could have done a whole lot of different things to change up the dynamic but it was her wanting to keep her hands clean that's the root of the issue. Not the idol deal.
I think a key detail is missing: she states when she voted for Denise "this is for show, I don't think you're going home tonight"
So why target Denise? Idol bait to get the final token and to buy that loyalty I'm assuming, but that was based on whether the idol was real rather than if she got voted for. What that tells me is that everyone voted for Denise and Sandra didn't know. I mean on the one hand, why does she care, it isn't her? On the other hand, it obviously wasn't the plan, but there wasn't really a plan. At least her reaction to the votes didn't show.
So why target Denise? Idol bait to get the final token and to buy that loyalty I'm assuming, but that was based on whether the idol was real rather than if she got voted for. What that tells me is that everyone voted for Denise and Sandra didn't know. I mean on the one hand, why does she care, it isn't her? On the other hand, it obviously wasn't the plan, but there wasn't really a plan. At least her reaction to the votes didn't show.
I don't get what you're trying to say? Sandra had to vote Denise because that's what her alliance decided they were going to do. If she had voted for someone else, she'd have her loyalty questioned. And she wouldn't want to push for Denise to stay because 1. she's safe anyway and 2. she wants their alliance to be a secret.
I don't quite get what you're saying, but this isn't true. Sandra says that Denise can now decide who goes home ('which one of the two boys'), which means Sandra knows everybody will vote for Denise, making it so that Denise's vote is the only valid vote after she plays her idol.
Actually, I just checked it to be sure, and Sandra even explicitly says to Denise: 'Your name is gonna get written down by all of us'.
EDIT
Oop well I forgot that part then. My bad. Must've missed it somehow. I was watching with my parents. Must've been talking during that part.
Yul's in a really good position right now in his tribe. It's hard to imagine them not sending Michele home if they go to tribal again.
His primary risk is as an early merge boot provided that everyone else in the game does the math and recognizes they have to stand strong against Yul/Sophie's unconnected quartet and Cops R Us because he's going to be largely recognized as the leader of that group.
That's a solid 6 w/ 12 people left in the game and presumably one more episode prior to merge. So Yul's side will have numbers at merge barring another Dakal immunity loss and Jeremy/Denise pulling in Kim and booting Tony. It gets dangerous at that point as it would transition Sarah into a wild card and make the end game much more volatile and coalition voting-heavy.
Presumably that scenario doesn't happen so long as the original Dakal remain a cohesive group. The Sophie-Sarah relationship over on Yara is the most compelling for me to watch right now as they're going to have the most influence on how stable (or not) the back-half of this game proceeds. We can't forget that Sophie knows about Kim's idol as well.
The Edge returnee is going to shake things up as well. As they're definitely going to be a number for the other side. Yul definitely has merge boot potential. But I'm confident he at least gets to merge.
That preview made it seem like Wendell might flip on Nick and Yul. Also, the Sele idol will be rehidden and if Michele finds it and they lose imunity it is GG for either Nick or Yul.
I suppose the main threat there would be if Jeremy relays to Michele during a challenge that Denise's idol was used to prompt her to look for one.
The other wrinkle will be whether it has the same activation clause that the others did. Because she doesn't have a buddy to do that with unless she starts throwing her fire token weight around. Because even turning her ex into a vote for her only forces a 2-2 tiebreaker.
I usually don't get too hung up on preview clip narratives as they're typically designed to set up false expectations. If I see a clip telling me a certain castaway is in jeopardy, that's usually a tell for me that they're going to be just fine that week.
Do we know that idols get rehidden in this season given that you can buy them? And the amount of advantages that can be bought and gained?
We have no idea. But I'd be really surprised if they didn't get rehidden.
I've just never watched a season with this many advantages before. I don't know how many of these have existed prior to this season. I know tokens are brand new, but beyond that I don't know. Last season I watched terms of recency was Redemption Island.
I think Yul is in trouble. I've heard that Nick and Michelle made a pregame alliance, and of course Michelle and Wendell have history. I could easily see Yul being odd one out.
All of the other advantages have appeared in some form before, though not usually in these numbers. The producers have clearly decided that advantages produce entertaining episodes, and I'm not sure they're wrong, so I'd expect to continue to see them. I hope it's with the strings attached "split with another person" idols they've been doing so far, as it means at least one person knows you have an idol.
But hey, ultimately I'm just guessing. It's possible they won't reappear. I suspect the producers are carefully controlling how many advantages can be in play at once and only offering up the juicy advantages to exile when it's appropriate.
Don't post that sort of stuff in the thread (i.e. rumors of alliances or boot lists taken from outside the show itself), please, as it could easily be a spoiler.
Okay, I'm not spoiled in anyway so don't worry about that. I understand that some might not like any outside info though, so I won't mention anything like that again.
Episode 7 (3/25) Discussion Begins Here
Fucking Rob, goddamn as usual he's all over it. And Tyson thought he was slick with the peanut butter.
Man, Wendell just keeps getting drowned.
I love when we see some change up in editing. Wish they did it more often. The pull back to reveal Rob had them was nice.
I love when we see some change up in editing. Wish they did it more often. The pull back to reveal Rob had them was nice.
Really making Adam look like an idiot here, whoops.
I feel like Yul and Sophie have gotten the best winner edit so far. They haven't really had any negative posturing, while Tony's spy shack stuff last week pointed him in a goofy negative light. On the other hand, they are really really playing up how big a threat Tony is as he continues to get by
I feel like Yul and Sophie have gotten the best winner edit so far. They haven't really had any negative posturing, while Tony's spy shack stuff last week pointed him in a goofy negative light. On the other hand, they are really really playing up how big a threat Tony is as he continues to get by
Not even getting reactions to vote? Damn it's like all the old school is gone so no one cares now lol