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B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
www.nytimes.com

Surge of Student Suicides Pushes Las Vegas Schools to Reopen (Published 2021)

Firmly linking teen suicides to school closings is difficult, but rising mental health emergencies and suicide rates point to the toll the pandemic lockdown is taking.


The reminders of pandemic-driven suffering among students in Clark County, Nev., have come in droves.

Since schools shut their doors in March, an early-warning system that monitors students' mental health episodes has sent more than 3,100 alerts to district officials, raising alarms about suicidal thoughts, possible self-harm or cries for care. By December, 18 students had taken their own lives.

The spate of student suicides in and around Las Vegas has pushed the Clark County district, the nation's fifth largest, toward bringing students back as quickly as possible. This month, the school board gave the green light to phase in the return of some elementary school grades and groups of struggling students even as greater Las Vegas continues to post huge numbers of coronavirus cases and deaths.

Superintendents across the nation are weighing the benefit of in-person education against the cost of public health, watching teachers and staff become sick and, in some cases, die, but also seeing the psychological and academic toll that school closings are having on children nearly a year in. The risk of student suicides has quietly stirred many district leaders, leading some, like the state superintendent in Arizona, to cite that fear in public pleas to help mitigate the virus's spread.


In Clark County, it forced the superintendent's hand.

"When we started to see the uptick in children taking their lives, we knew it wasn't just the Covid numbers we need to look at anymore," said Jesus Jara, the Clark County superintendent. "We have to find a way to put our hands on our kids, to see them, to look at them. They've got to start seeing some movement, some hope."


Adolescent suicide during the pandemic cannot conclusively be linked to school closures; national data on suicides in 2020 have yet to be compiled. One study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that the percentage of youth emergency room visits that were for mental health reasons had risen during the pandemic. The actual number of those visits fell, though researchers noted that many people were avoiding hospitals that were dealing with the crush of coronavirus patients. And a compilation of emergency calls in more than 40 states among all age groups showed increased numbers related to mental health.

Even in normal circumstances, suicides are impulsive, unpredictable and difficult to ascribe to specific causes. The pandemic has created conditions unlike anything mental health professionals have seen before, making causation that much more difficult to determine.

But Greta Massetti, who studies the effects of violence and trauma on children at the C.D.C., said there was "definitely reason to be concerned because it makes conceptual sense." Millions of children had relied on schools for mental health services that have now been restricted, she noted.



One student left a note saying he had nothing to look forward to. The youngest student Dr. Jara has lost to suicide was 9.

"I feel responsible," Dr. Jara said. "They're all my kids."


A video that Brad Hunstable made in April, two days after he buried his 12-year-old son, Hayden, in their hometown Aledo, Texas, went viral after he proclaimed, "My son died from the coronavirus." But, he added, "not in the way you think."

In a recent interview, Mr. Hunstable spoke of the challenges his son faced during the lockdown — he missed friends and football, and had become consumed by the video game Fortnite. He hanged himself four days before his 13th birthday.


Hayden's story is now the subject of a short documentary, "Almost 13," Mr. Hunstable's video has more than 100 million views, and an organization created in his son's name has drawn attention from parents across the country, clearly striking a chord.

"I wasn't trying to make a political statement," Mr. Hunstable said. "I was trying to help save lives."

This fall, when most school districts decided not to reopen, more parents began to speak out. The parents of a 14-year-old boy in Maryland who killed himself in October described how their son "gave up" after his district decided not to return in the fall. In December, an 11-year-old boy in Sacramento shot himself during his Zoom class. Weeks later, the father of a teenager in Maine attributed his son's suicide to the isolation of the pandemic.

"We knew he was upset because he was no longer able to participate in his school activities, football," Jay Smith told a local television station. "We never guessed it was this bad."


President Biden has laid out a robust plan to speed vaccinations, expand coronavirus testing and spend billions of dollars to help districts reopen most of their schools in his first 100 days in office.

By then, children in districts like Clark County, with more than 300,000 students, will have been out of school for more than a year.

"Every day, it feels like we have run out time," Dr. Jara said.

Since the lockdowns, districts are reporting suicide clusters, Dr. Massetti of the C.D.C. said, and many said they were struggling to connect students with services.


"Without in-person instruction, there is a gap that is right now being unfilled," she said.


In November, school officials intervened when a 12-year-old student searched his district-issued iPad for "how to make a noose."
The boy's grandfather, whom The New York Times is identifying by his first name, Larry, to protect the boy's identity, said the episode was a shock.

The boy's father had retired to bed around 7 p.m. to rest for his 2 a.m. work shift. He did not hear the phone ringing until around 10 p.m., when the school district finally reached him. His father made it to his son's room to find a noose from multiple shoestrings around his neck.


In the spring of 2020, Ms. Neely sent the young man an email telling him how proud she was of him, that he was so close to getting what he wanted. Two weeks before graduation, she got the call that he had shot himself.

"Part of me will always wonder if he'd had access to his teachers, and his peers, and me, if it would've changed the outcome," Ms. Neely said through tears. "I will never know. These suicides, they don't impact one person and one family. They impact me to this day."

Dr. Jara understood.

"I can't get these alerts anymore," he confessed. "I have no words to say to these families anymore. I believe in God, but I can't help but wonder: Am I doing everything possible to open our schools?"

I pulled some of the most shocking stories and anecdotes from the article. When schools initially closed and we all went into quarantine, I knew this would be an issue. But this is worse than my worst nightmares. We have to close schools to protect teachers and students from coronavirus, but closing schools has the side-effect of putting our kids' mental health at risk and their lives in jeopardy.

It's not just kids that have suffered as a result of all this, we all have, but our mismanagement of the pandemic has put an entire generation of young people at risk. A risk that hardly anyone seems willing to even acknowledge.
 

Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,839
This is shitty thing about the pandemic. Has been almost a year and can't imagine if I wasn't able to see anyone else during this year. This is the other side of keeping everything locked down. People like interaction with other people face to face.
 

Tatsu91

Banned
Apr 7, 2019
3,147
While this is horroble is the cost worth it? As thousands more could catch covid and become Disabled or die because of it. As those of any age can die or be disabled. Autopsys have shown asymptomatic Covid lungs show more scarring than 40-50 years of smokers lung. This could mean a whole generation suffering from such damage.
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,080
By letting it get out of the control to the point where even measured restrictions could be somewhat relieved, governments failed their people time and time and time again. So much needless damage where this thing was allowed to run roughshod because they didn't plan and actively embraced spread until it was too late.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,945
I wonder how my high school is doing. We had four suicides in four years when I was there, hopefully that has been addressed in the last decade.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
This is awful.

The solution is not to open schools back up as if there is no pandemic. Kids are not invulnerable and we shouldn't treat them as disposable.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,080
While this is horroble is the cost worth it? As thousands more could catch covid and become Disabled or die because of it. As those of any age can die or be disabled. Autopsys have shown asymptomatic Covid lungs show more scarring than 40-50 years of smokers lung. This could mean a whole generation suffering from such damage.
Transmission rate in schools is incredibly low. Even Fauci is telling people to open the schools up and maintain proper safety protocols.
 

Griselbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,242
Before the pandemic I coached boxing for kids that were mainly in elementary and middle school. No matter what went on in their day they always enjoyed coming to class in the evenings, some of them asking if I could find a way to have classes on Saturdays. They all came in because they had an interest in boxing, but there were always secondary reasons too. I got to see their confidence go up and their social skills develop over the time they were with me and it was probably the most fulfilling thing I had going for me as well.

Having to update them periodically about the gym closure and how I can't risk them coming in lest they contract Covid-19 makes me sick to my stomach every time. And this is just a small class of students, I can't imagine losing that on top of losing their interactions with kids in their own school.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,982
While this is horroble is the cost worth it? As thousands more could catch covid and become Disabled or die because of it. As those of any age can die or be disabled. Autopsys have shown asymptomatic Covid lungs show more scarring than 40-50 years of smokers lung. This could mean a whole generation suffering from such damage.
A whole generation is already suffering. Let's not so easily discard children's mental health and education.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
This move to reopen feels like it's strongly guided by the "1 death is a tragedy, 1000 is a statistic" idea.

EDIT: allow me to add that the solution has always been to shut down non-essential bullshit to safeguard educating students in person, but America royally fucked up that up in the worst ways possible, and so we're at a point where having anything open feels simultaneously like 1) a terrible idea and 2) not so much worse than everything else we're doing.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,641
While this is horroble is the cost worth it? As thousands more could catch covid and become Disabled or die because of it. As those of any age can die or be disabled. Autopsys have shown asymptomatic Covid lungs show more scarring than 40-50 years of smokers lung. This could mean a whole generation suffering from such damage.

The cost is not worth it. However I do have kind of a doomer perspective here in that I completely expected things like this to happen a year ago and realized there was no way around it. It's extremely depressing and I don't know what the "right" move to do here would be.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,187
While this is horroble is the cost worth it? As thousands more could catch covid and become Disabled or die because of it. As those of any age can die or be disabled. Autopsys have shown asymptomatic Covid lungs show more scarring than 40-50 years of smokers lung. This could mean a whole generation suffering from such damage.

Yeah. We completely whiffed on our COVID plan, but the only solution is still to put a plan in place and beat COVID. Rushing to re-open schools is just whiffing harder. That is not a solution.
 

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,734
The Negative Zone
My daughter is 13, almost 14, and this keeps me up at night. All of her friends are depressed. I don't know what the answer is but nobody is doing anything for these kids.

I no longer believe reopening schools sooner is an avenue that we can summarily dismiss. Better options for educational environments and interaction with peers should be on the table, all options for that should be on the table.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
The solution is not to open schools back up as if there is no pandemic. Kids are not invulnerable and we shouldn't treat them as disposable.
I honestly think school should be open at least for those up until 18. Child abuse has greatly increased. Learning at home takes great discipline too, we are asking kids to just deal with it for a year now.

I'm all for being strict on adults, but there should be some leeway for the kids imo. Though I am unsure what the impact will be.
 
OP
OP
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
I didn't expect them to be so young. That's shocking to me.
Like I said, this is exactly the sort of thing I was worried about. Kids haven't yet developed the social skill to handle something like this, they don't have the perspective that this is temporary. These are the skills they'd normally learn in school, but they can't because it's all distance learning and that isn't conducive to teaching these skills.

This move to reopen feels like it's strongly guided by the "1 death is a tragedy, 1000 is a statistic" idea.

EDIT: allow me to add that the solution has always been to shut down non-essential bullshit to safeguard educating students in person, but America royally fucked up that up in the worst ways possible, and so we're at a point where having anything open feels simultaneously like 1) a terrible idea and 2) not so much worse than everything else we're doing.
The problem is that it isn't one death; it's dozens, if not hundreds. There's no good answer here because we failed so miserably at managing coronavirus in the first place. All we can really do is vaccinate as quickly as possible at this point.
 

Absoludacrous

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,184
This is why I elected to send my kid back to school, even when given the option of remote learning. I saw last spring how badly the isolation had affected her, and even though I knew the risks, sending her still seemed like the lesser of two evils.
 
Last edited:

Mars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,988
This is awful.

The solution is not to open schools back up as if there is no pandemic. Kids are not invulnerable and we shouldn't treat them as disposable.

So what is your solution? Did you even read the article or just had that response queued up? Anything other to add rather than dismiss THIS so casually?

and yes, I'm intentionally coming off as prick because I expect to see a lot of the same response that brings nothing to conversation.
 

samoscratch

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,841
Well I can imagine for a lot of kids, school life is a respite from an abusive or inadequate home life, not to mention the only place where some of them can get food. The situation is fucked up beyond belief.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,775
Are they going back to having a certain reduced number of kids attending school each day? That's how the district I live in has handled it for the most part. Some kids go M,W,F while the rest go Tuesdays and Thursday.
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
Can I propose instead of rushing to open schools, push through legislation that will (at least temporarily) provide free universal health care across the board, (both physical and mental health), at least until the Pandemic is through? No one should have to suffer because they, or their family, can't afford the care they need right now. I'm not saying that it will prevent 100% (or even any %) of suicides, but it's the very least the government can do imo.
 

Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,839
While this is horroble is the cost worth it? As thousands more could catch covid and become Disabled or die because of it. As those of any age can die or be disabled. Autopsys have shown asymptomatic Covid lungs show more scarring than 40-50 years of smokers lung. This could mean a whole generation suffering from such damage.

It has been said many times the rate in schools is very low. Need to find a way to open stuff up for kids. Not having clubs, class, and even sports is gonna be rough on these kids and it has. The longer we wait the harder it is going to be on these kids.
 
Aug 8, 2019
230
Hasn't Las Vegas also been hit particularly hard economically during the pandemic?

Sudden shifts in socioeconomic status can heavily weigh on the mental health of these students as well.
 

SemRockwel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
507
It could also be that they have a bad home life. Tons of kids only turn out ok because they have a refuge away from a terrible family.

Edit: Just to make it clear, I think this would only be for some cases, rather than a root cause.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
I honestly think school should be open at least for those up until 18. Child abuse has greatly increased as well.

I'm all for being strict on adults, but there should be some leeway for the kids imo. Though I am unsure what the impact will be.

COVID-19 doesn't seem to give a shit about giving us some leeway though.

There is a risk of the student getting ill, developing permanent symptoms or worse - and also the risk of them passing on the virus to someone else who is in a more vulnerable position. And what about the teachers?

I don't have the answers - I don't think there are any easy decisions to make here.

It could also be that they have a bad home life. Tons of kids only turn out ok because they have a refuge away from a terrible family.

Yes, definitely.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,363
The Stussining
I feel immense empathy for the people that have to make the calls with this knowledge. It can't be easy and I know it would keep me awake at night if I thought children were taking their own lives in part because of decisions I made.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,982
Can I propose instead of rushing to open schools, push through legislation that will (at least temporarily) provide free universal health care across the board, (both physical and mental health), at least until the Pandemic is through? No one should have to suffer because they, or their family, can't afford the care they need right now. I'm not saying that it will prevent 100% (or even any %) of suicides, but it's the very least the government can do imo.
The solution isn't to give millions of little kids counseling. It's to find a way for them to safely interact with their peers.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
So what is your solution? Did you even read the article or just had that response queued up? Anything other to add rather than dismiss THIS so casually?

and yes, I'm intentionally coming off as prick because I expect to see a lot of the same response that brings nothing to conversation.

I'm not casually dismissing anything.

Can I propose instead of rushing to open schools, push through legislation that will (at least temporarily) provide free universal health care across the board, (both physical and mental health), at least until the Pandemic is through? No one should have to suffer because they, or their family, can't afford the care they need right now. I'm not saying that it will prevent 100% (or even any %) of suicides, but it's the very least the government can do imo.

Is that on the table anywhere? If one good thing could come from this pandemic it would be for us to finally make some sweeping changes to the healthcare system in the US.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Like I said, this is exactly the sort of thing I was worried about. Kids haven't yet developed the social skill to handle something like this, they don't have the perspective that this is temporary. These are the skills they'd normally learn in school, but they can't because it's all distance learning and that isn't conducive to teaching these skills.


The problem is that it isn't one death; it's dozens, if not hundreds. There's no good answer here because we failed so miserably at managing coronavirus in the first place. All we can really do is vaccinate as quickly as possible at this point.
I get this. I do.

But it's also not 1000 COVID deaths, it's 420,000 reported (god knows the actual number!) and counting, and we're collectively numb to the fact that more people die from COVID-19 daily than died on 9/11 for like 2 straight months now. I'm weary of policies being guided by orders of magnitude less deaths because they hit us all as far more tragic (children committing suicide) than any individual COVID-19 death.

There's no good answers here.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,586
Seattle, WA
one of many national failings that puts blood on Trump admin's hands, and in this case, Betsy DeVos's. this is what dismantling the fed hath wrought. without a federal effort to nationalize things like masking, family outreach, payments to families, and public school online infrastructure, everyone is getting crushed before they can begin rebuilding, and nobody has bandwidth to empathize with anyone else.

this mental health crisis is still not as bad as plummeting into the idea of "herd immunity." see thousands of COVID sufferers cough up blood and go through kidney failure, and then tell me we need to have throngs of unmasked children around sensitive adult populations as if nothing is wrong. masked, distanced, reconstructed schools are certainly a possibility, but we're only getting STARTED making that happen on a national level.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,536
Portland, OR
I used to be on the other side of the fence, but I really do think schools need to reopen. In addition to the depression and suicide rates, a large number of kids can't or won't attend online class or study, potentially leaving millions of kids behind academically. That, combined with super low transmission rates among children, means that the benefit to kids' academic and mental health outweighs the risk of COVID being spread among them.

Our one opportunity to contain the problem died months ago once Trump decided his ego trumped public health and safety. We can still keep other things closed until we need to, but kids need in-person social interaction, and in some cases kids need the interaction with teachers to provide the support and counseling that many parents won't provide.
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
The solution isn't to give millions of little kids counseling. It's to find a way for them to safely interact with their peers.

I don't think that millions of kids need the counseling. I think there is a percentage of them that do though, and it needs to be there for them, as well as finding them ways to safely interact with their peers, without endangering their teachers, parents and communities.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,842
This is something I remember from about six months ago when people on this forum were being so strict about locking kids down and shaming people who did anything that didn't conform to that hard limitation without considering any nuance. I didn't think it was black and white then and it's clear that it's starting to take a toll. This has been a huge concern of mine and you have to realize for a kid, a year is an eternity. Their perception of time is much slower than we view it and it was about to catch up. It's something I worry about constantly and still worry about the impacts of how this will play out over the years to come.
 

Rev408

Member
Dec 28, 2017
1,505
There's a huge underlying issue here. I'm not sure what it is, But the closure of schools should never lead to this.
So depressing.
 

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,734
The Negative Zone
This is impossible when some places have 30-40 kids per class. I feel like some of the people in charge have not set foot in a classroom in 20+ years.

Yeah but if you could get each of these kids in a classroom even one day per week I think it makes a considerable difference for mental health, even if they're not really learning much. It would require a lot of organization and money which of course the Trump admin did not provide
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Obviously everyone's experience is different but I was a suicidal teen because I had to go to school (where i was constantly bullied and put down and struggled in classes).

i wonder if those kids that were like me are actually doing better?
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,721
I'm interested in knowing teachers' perspective. I've recently observed a teacher union push back against opening, but I didn't hear discussions on students' mental health.
 
OP
OP
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
There's a huge underlying issue here. I'm not sure what it is, But the closure of schools should never lead to this.
So depressing.
It's that kids don't have the social or emotional skills to handle something like this yet. They haven't learned those skills. It's part of why they go to school in the first place and why things like distance learning aren't a good enough substitute.

There's no easy answers here. We flubbed the corona response and this is a part of the aftermath of that fuck up.

I'm interested in knowing teachers' perspective. I've recently observed a teacher union push back against opening, but I didn't hear discussions on students' mental health.
So, in NYC, I've followed this a bit. The teacher's union has generally wanted to reopen schools, largely for this sort of reason, but only if schools can ensure the safety of the teachers as they're all at risk of dying of coronavirus.