To this note, republicans fought for 50 years And slowly chipped away at abortion rights. Are people on the other side of the issue as committed?
Unfortunately I'm not hopeful for that.
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To this note, republicans fought for 50 years And slowly chipped away at abortion rights. Are people on the other side of the issue as committed?
Unfortunately I'm not hopeful for that.
Literally no one in this thread has ever said both sides are the same. One side is monstrous, and the other side has long been ineffective at dealing with the escalating attacks on our quality of life. That's not saying both sides are the same. Go ahead and have fun with your strawman though.
I literally have friends that are pissed at this decision and are still not in favor of voting. Both sides the same, my vote doesn't matter, and so on to excuse not voting.
It's never enough, is it? I'm still voting blue and encourage everyone to do the same. But I can't blame people who don't when "vote for us and we'll fix it" "oh wait we have the majority but we don't have the votes…Vote….more" doesn't exactly inspire confidence, now does it? There will always be someone standing in the way.
User banned (3 days): inflammatory accusations
Right, because
1) you focus on the 1 anti choice candidate Pelosi backed and not the 200+ pro choice candidates she backed
2) you ignored the fact that the party was less solidly pro choice 12 years ago when they had the slimmest window of opportunity to codify Roe.
I'm not going to bat for the party on Cullear, I don't really care. Bad call, whatever. But that you want to damn the whole party for it, I'll call that out.
You do not act like a person who cares about the issue. If you did, you'd see this moment as a time for less liberal/left divide, not more.
Declaring this isn't blaming those people. it's Republicans that are to blame for what's going on. But it's meaningless to even talk about Republicans when they are a death cult hell bent on annihilation.
Saying they don't care about the issue is just fucking dumb
Sure but before that they won the primaries to unseat established GOP Congress members and many more candidates at the local level.
Voters didn't take the implications of the 2016 election seriously enough and we are now paying the price. Yes we had great turnout in 2018 and 2020 but the damage was already done. At this juncture the short and midterm strategy is to start winning more local elections to help gum up the works in states that will implement anti abortion laws.
You're not wrong and sorry about your recent election results!
To gain back the levers of power is going to be hard work. I mean look at the last 40-70 years from the conservatives in the USA, people died not seeing the fruits of their labor. It's on us to suck it up and start the march back to the left, we owe that to what's left for the future.
Yesterday should make us angry, sad, determined, etc. we'll need to draw from that to make things just and right.
I don't even know if supporting Cuellar was the wrong choice (as much as I dislike it). I simply have no way of quantifying the ramifications of doing so in the long term, if there even are any.
But people really need to stop taking things our politicians say at face value.
Okay, but do you see the contradiction?
If the motivating factor is strategic (i.e. supporting the candidate who has proven they can win that race), if the belief is that swapping out a proven winner for an unproven winner carries inherent risk, why would it make sense to endorse a Representative who had never run a statewide race before?
Kennedy was challenging Markey in Massachusetts, so it wasn't exactly a huge risk, but why take on any additional risk at all?
The argument in favor of supporting trash (but established) Democrats gets a whole lot weaker when you acknowledge that the motivation is primarily the expectation of a diffuse, implicit quid pro quo among existing members, and not an actual concern for maximizing seats in congress.
"The GOP just gutted women's rights so I'm going to go online and bitch about Democrats."
Funny way of showing it.
Me personally, I'm waiting for my wife to get home so I can get buy in on offering our place up for anyone traveling from out of state.
It's not a strawman. He's banned now, but a few pages back a poster went on at length about how both parties are "one and the same" and voting solves nothing so there's no point voting.
Obviously 95% of people here get it, but that 5% does exist.
Sure. It was one interview 5 years ago in reference to voters priorities. I agree it's a dumb thing to say, but I don't understand the obsession with it (or her reading a poem at the end of a speech).
Calling her out for supporting Cuellar at least, you know, matters.
Despite my protest, you keep saying I don't care about the issue. I don't have to explain myself to you and it's not my fault I don't fit in your neat little box of who a pro-choice person is. If you keep claiming I don't support the issue, then I won't engage with you further.
There is no contradiction. The House Caucus Leader always endorses their members just as the Senate Caucus Leader always endorses their members, and so on. That's part of your job as a caucus leader and if you don't do it you will lose the support of your members and will not be able to muster them for votes as effectively. That's all there is to it.
I'm speaking specifically about how it has helped churn leadership and keep the party full of people willing to push the boundaries to get their agenda passed and provide an enormous bench to pull from for higher leadership roles
Contrast that to the Democratic Party which, with one small blip with Me Too, the party is stagnate and entrenched with aged leadership, aged thinking, an unhealthy comfort with the status quo, and a party that has a drought of talent. And what talent is there is being kept minimized because of senior leaders refusing to step down or retire
I mean we literally have Feinstein in later stages of Alzheimer's still clinging to her seat. This shit is structurally broken and the people with the most power are just advocating to keep everything moving as is with them still in charge, doing less and less and becoming more and more detached while getting more and more hostile to the populist and ideological and policy wing of the party. The younger generations of leaders that need to be fostered and taking these reigns keep getting told to sit down, don't question the incumbent elders that are in their late 70's or 80's.
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I'm sorry but pitching a fit about dem leadership when they have opening advocated for pro choices and pushed through laws when they could is ridiculous. Being ignorant about how the us government works isn't something that should be celebrated or tolerated. Yes you can be frustrated but blaming dems for how the government works isn't the way to go
So you are using my offhand comment to ignore the facts. (second time this argument, last time was because I seemed too invested!)
Do you think the Democrats are not pro choice? What is your prescription for addressing abortion rights going forward, if not including pressing for higher turnout in November?
In Massachusetts the risk of losing the seat to a Republican is effectively nil especially when both names are well known. When that risk is nil, you can weigh other factors. When that risk is significant, it takes higher priority. Not complicated from a strategic perspective.
Oh now it's just an offhanded comment. Pretty amazing way of getting someone to engage with you by saying they don't care about human rights and coming back with, just a joke bro. If you wanted to have a discussion with me, you could have done without poisoning the well.
Democrats can't be criticized? I can't criticize democrats because if I do that means I don't care about abortion? Really? Democrats can be criticized without saying democrats = republicans so stop voting. Stop it. Democrats have lots of room for improvement. Obviously republicans are the greater threat, but democrats need to get their fucking shit together. More AOC, less Pelosi reading poems.
If people want to make the argument that she has to give them support so they will be more likely to vote her way when it comes time to pass x, y, and z, then they should make that argument.
It's time we stop repeating the charitable lie, "They're just supporting the candidate who has proven they can win," that gets bandied about any time leadership runs defense for total assholes who, for example, applaud the Supreme Court for taking away our rights.
I agree with you.
Can we stop with the poem thing, though? She read the poem at the end of a speech, but it got cropped and spread as if all she did was read a poem.
Let's criticize Dems for substantial things, not Twitter bullshit.
289 votes.
What are you even talking about? Culler received more votes in the 2020 general than he ever had before.
Pelosi is not so concerned with the Senate as her priority is the House. She backed someone of her caucus over someone that is not part of her caucus. Her strategic priority there was strengthening the bonds she has with her caucus by once again positioning herself as someone that will go to the bat for her caucus.
Absolutely awful outlook for the US.
It's crazy too, this was all we talked about on the golf course yesterday.
Like it's that big of a watershed moment for the US and more importantly women's rights everywhere that a group of four men were discussing it on a golf course all day. In Canada.
My spouse is an NP and she literally can't believe this would happen nowadays. Thankfully in Canada (at least at the moment) any talk of banning abortion is political suicide.
It's crazy too, this was all we talked about on the golf course yesterday.
Like it's that big of a watershed moment for the US and more importantly women's rights everywhere that a group of four men were discussing it on a golf course all day. In Canada.
My spouse is an NP and she literally can't believe this would happen nowadays. Thankfully in Canada (at least at the moment) any talk of banning abortion is political suicide.
Calling that a "charitable lie" is patently absurd. Cuellar as shitty as he is has won that district before and has done that by outperforming other Democrats on the ticket who have run to his left. His abortion position will will never be relevant in terms of whether a bill passed unless the party has a 1 vote House majority, in which case there are much bigger problems that will need to be dealt with.
Republicans' greatest achievement is convincing the dem base that dems are to blame for republican malfeasance.
Oh, full stop. This is absolutely all at the feet of Republicans. I don't place any blame on Democrats for this. Blame the evangelical Christian right that spun up these people into a frenzy to get them to vote in the 70s and 80s.
Yeah I noticed a lot of popular streamers on Twitch have been pretty outspoken about the decision. Even people who usually don't talk about politics. Hopefully it fires everyone up and they can help get people out to vote in the future.
Did you guys see this shit?
What the FUCK???
What the FUCK???
A day later and insider trader Nancy's email asking for donations is still hilarious
They had a month to prep and did nothing
Shit means nothing to them
They had a month to prep and did nothing
Shit means nothing to them
This is all I can hope for right now; that this is such an overreach on the part of neo-facsist republicans that it mobilizes a whole new generation of voters/the politically engaged.
Why didnt the blue boxer knock out the red boxer? "Because the blue boxer must secretly love being punched in the face!"
I desperately want to see this more from popular folks who have been apolitical. NOW is absolutely the time for those with voices to stand up and start rallying their fans to change the country. So many were silent throughout so much shit in politics that I'm glad some are finally starting to get freaked out.
He's saying the fact that Roe has stood for over 50 years shouldn't matter as an argument, because Brown overrode Plessy which had been in place for even longer.
It's gross comparison to make, and, you know, batshit crazy for a lot of reasons, but he's not saying get rid of Brown.
Why bother hiding it anymore when the Supreme Court will probably do away with it in the next few years? Maybe Democrats will sing God Bless America on the steps of Congress in response.
They prepped the donation email and picked out the poem.
User banned (permanent): troll account
Say what you will, the content coming out as a result of this has been top notch.
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I can't believe I have to explain John Cornyn here. Obama is saying 50 year precedents should not be overturned. Cornyn is saying that Plessy v. Ferguson (separate but equal) was rightly overturned by Brown v Board after the former was precedent for over 50 years.
Say what you will, the content coming out as a result of this has been top notch.
I dont find that funny at all? Tasteless.
democrats: lol the republicans are the party of conspiracy theories, they think vaccines are fake, they believe in qanon, they think the election was stolen because of dominion voting machines
also democrats: liberal/left voters are upset at democrats for campaigning on "protecting the right to an abortion" for fifteen years but failing to actually do so because, actually, conservatives have created dissension in the ranks by seeding false narratives. it's not that people are actually upset that democrats failed to act on their promises (and that many of those people view "democrats" as a single entity due to the intentional nationalization of politics in the modern world), it's that they have made this happen
"people who are upset at democrats are falling for conservative lies" is a conspiracy theory. this is not some part of a grand plan by the evil masterminds at koch hq. people are upset at democrats because national democrats have been running on "we're going to protect the right to an abortion" since 2006, and they haven't fucking done it, and now we're here
the primary blame lies with, you know, the conservatives that actually made this all happen. but the secondary blame - the blame that many voters on the left feel they have more control over, given how the electoral college works - lies with the democratic party, for making promises that it did not live up to. we can acknowledge both of these things. we have to. the ability to unfuck the problem depends on us being able to say both that:
- the overturning of the right to an abortion was done by conservative lawmakers installing conservative justices, and is against the will of the people
- the democratic party's tactics for stopping this did not work, and they need to take accountability for that fact, and they need to either show us their actual plan for how to fix it or they need to get the fuck out and let someone else handle it
Say what you will, the content coming out as a result of this has been top notch.
Wow that's super fucked up of you. "Top notch" huh...
It's still dumb as shit given this move destroyed basic women's rights and Board v education actually corrected a real heinous decision in Plessy.
Not comparable.