• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,941
But why wasn't killing the filibuster a priority in Obama's first term? Why should we assume it will happen if we have 52 when it didn't happen with 59? I just don't have faith that there is always one more Dem Senator willing to torpedo any real change waiting in the wings.
Because Republicans weren't all batshit crazy then and most of them were shitty but reasonable and negotiable. The Senate in 2022 looks absolutely nothing like the Senate in 2010, they may as well be completely different institutions despite how many people have held their seats since then. Obama spent all his political capitol on 1 half-baked bill, there is no universe in which he could have gotten 50 votes to eliminate the filibuster.
 

disparate

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,904
Red states already have shockingly bad mortality rates and are financially propped up by blue ones, I can only see this trend getting exacerbated as skilled workers flee states that ban uh, healthcare, and metropolitan citizens will have to continue to prop up these insular backwaters.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,913
Wonder how many people were totally surprised today when they learned that their friends, family or acquaintances (presumably from the center and right but across politics) who have been saying, "Look, I don't support banning abortion outright" are dead silent today because they were - in fact - lying and absolutely did support it and are now overjoyed. I'm glad I don't have any people like that in my life. If I did, I would immediately cut all ties with them (though I understand that's not possible for many people for various reasons.)
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,952
Columbus, Ohio
See this is the bullshit myopia I'm talking about.

"Oh it's not immediate so it's worthless." I can't explain it to you further than that.

People have been fighting for decades to see so much of it rolled back/about to be rolled back in a handful of years. You can't expect everyone to just be down for starting over at the beginning. The court is obviously an outmoded institution - government should begin ignoring it's word rather than us worrying about slowly beginning to recapture control of it in 60 years.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I'd argue the main reasons we have this problem are that ~40% of the population supports, or at least is okay with, fascism; and the institutions of this country are designed to reward them with 50+% of political representation, despite consistently getting out-voted.

Ignoring the fact that voting is literally less effective for the left than the right doesn't help either. Obviously it's not completely useless (yet) and it's absolutely necessary, at the very least for harm reduction. I'll never advocate for not voting and I do my best to get my peers to turn out (and most do!).

But constantly harping on people who are justifiably apathetic or disillusioned with Democrats, yet still overwhelmingly vote for Democrats anyway, without acknowledging the institutional hurdles rigging the game against us, does not strike me as any more productive than the people saying "fuck dems."

You can't just gaslight people. The left already, consistently out-votes Republicans. It needs to be acknowledged that the game is rigged, and Dem leaders need to loudly push for plans to address that, and actually act on them when they have power, if we want to seriously combat the apathy. Removing the filibuster, ditching the Electoral College, addressing voting rights, etc.

Just telling people who are feeling frustrated or disillusioned, who are likely already voting, that they just need to vote harder probably isn't helping much of anything.

I'll just quote myself from earlier in the thread:



Agreed that local elections need a lot more work. It's something I'm always talking about in my friend group. But a couple things:
- A lot (and I mean a LOT) of those uncontested races are in rural towns and counties where the population is overwhelmingly terrible, right wing fucks. Fact is, while not a majority, there are a TON of absolute pieces of shit in this country, and they're spread out over a ton of counties, while left leaning people tend to cluster into a smaller number of dense areas.
- The lack of attention to local races is just as much a failing of the party leadership as it is the party voters, if not moreso, tbh. Howard Dean had the right idea strategically, but like you said, the party writ large hasn't really stuck to that.
They were trying to stick with swing states alone which by in large is kind of dumb.
 

teruterubozu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,896
No one in Maine will remember this in 2026 assuming that the US federal government still exists then

Maine needs a viable Dem candidate. That's been Maine's problem vs Collins. They keep dicking around with independents and weak candidates. Sarah Gideon even out-raised Collins and she still couldn't beat her cuz she just ran on anti-Collins and zero agenda. You need powerful dem candidates to take down powerful GOP incumbents. That's essentially been the general Dem problem for awhile now - weak-ass opponents trying to take down Goliaths.
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,845
FYI progressive grassroots in 2008 were HUGE on killing the filibuster even at that time when it wasn't used nearly as much and losing that fight was crushing. I was totally on the radar even back then.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Because Republicans weren't all batshit crazy then and most of them were shitty but reasonable and negotiable. The Senate in 2022 looks absolutely nothing like the Senate in 2010, they may as well be completely different institutions despite how many people have held their seats since then. Obama spent all his political capitol on 1 half-baked bill, there is no universe in which he could have gotten 50 votes to eliminate the filibuster.

But they were batshit crazy. The ACA was a Republican solution. How many of them voted for it?
 
May 26, 2018
24,020
I'm thinking that when the reality of what this means and then that reality is out in practice, people won't forget because the real world impacts will be in their faces.

People forget that a big reason Roe even made it to the Supreme Court and was ruled on was because women were dying due to having unsafe abortions. Just because you make something illegal doesn't mean it will stop happening and what we're seeing here is the same situation being brought forth that caused a lot of women and young girls to die in back alley abortion clinics. When people start losing their daughters and children because they got an abortion due to a rape and died on the table, and that didn't have to happen, there will be lived impacted.

Right, but due to propaganda they'll be alone in their suffering. They'll become The Other. The outcast.

Then again, this is the same country that stands by as children are slaughtered in mass shootings so maybe not.

Just like those parents.

Most humans just. Don't. Give-a-fuck. About other humans. We're social on a village level at best, and it ends there. You can trick people into thinking about larger things on a village scale sometimes, but it's really hard. It's easier to get them scared of nebulous threats.

It's our problem with getting so fucking global: we struggle with city-wide empathy, moreso nationwide, and struggle incomprehensibly planet-scale.

So the bigger we get, the less we comprehend, and the more we lose sight of ourselves.

We have entire national systems attempting suicide every two or three generations because we can't spend time with our own species, and try again once we forget the attempt. I honestly don't know how we fix this.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,269
i love politics in america. i could vote for democrats and they could win every election and republicans still get everything they want while dems go "wow, i can't believe that happened?!?!" and post a video about Lin Manual Miranda badly rapping about some shit
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
1. He had total control of both chambers for 4 months (9/24/09 - 2/4/10).
2. One of those 60 votes was Lieberman.
3. He did not have 60 votes to codify Roe v Wade even amongst Democrats
4. LBJ (bully pulpit messaging from earlier in this thread) couldn't even wrangle his own super majority to pass the Civil Rights Act (~24 D Senators voted against it), Obama wouldn't have been able to lose a single Senator.
5. It was "not the highest legislative priority."
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,941
But they were batshit crazy. The ACA was a Republican solution. How many of them voted for it?
They were nothing like they are now. My point is just that there is no universe in which anyone could get 50 votes to nuke the filibuster in 2010 nor is there a universe in which they could have gotten 50 votes to codify Roe. Shit sucks but that's the way it was, to argue otherwise is to be ignorant of history.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,473
Right, but due to propaganda they'll be alone in their suffering. They'll become The Other. The outcast.



Just like those parents.

Most humans just. Don't. Give-a-fuck. About other humans. We're social on a village level at best, and it ends there. You can trick people into thinking about larger things on a village scale sometimes, but it's really hard. It's easier to get them scared of nebulous threats.

It's our problem with getting so fucking global: we struggle with city-wide empathy, moreso nationwide, and struggle incomprehensibly planet-scale.

So the bigger we get, the less we comprehend, and the more we lose sight of ourselves.

We have entire national systems attempting suicide every two or three generations because we can't spend time with our own species, and try again once we forget the attempt. I honestly don't know how we fix this.
Aliens announce themselves (and hopefully don't wipe us out)
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
Voting doesn't change anything they say as abortion is immediately banned in only red/purple states.

I can literally literally draw you a fucking goddamn map to show you what voting changes.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,352
But why wasn't killing the filibuster a priority in Obama's first term? Why should we assume it will happen if we have 52 when it didn't happen with 59? I just don't have faith that there is always one more Dem Senator willing to torpedo any real change waiting in the wings.

The first half of Obama's first term was the last time Democrats had 60 votes. The filibuster wasn't a problem yet.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,759
I just keep refreshing this hoping to read something to make me feel better....There is a protest Monday nearby I'll attend, but I dunno. Still feeling numb. This Supreme Court is doing exactly as expected, and still I'm fucking beyond words.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,618
I'll post this again:


screenshot2022-06-24a1wjr6.png


Why vote? Look at the states that have protections for abortion already in place. Voting at the state and local levels matter just as much, if not more, as every 4 years.

I really gotta get the fuck outta the midwest and move to the Northeast :/
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,769
So should we not count on the filibuster getting killed even if we get 2 more Senators? Will we need 60, or even then, we'll be so close, we won't bother. Then Sinema and Manchin will be back in play? I'm just of the mind that we have to look at when we historically had an opportunity, and make sure we don't miss that kind of window if it happens in the future. We need to be ready to ram everything through even if we only have 3 months to do it.
I think with two more and holding the house it will get killed. No way it doesn't. This will affect so many more people that if we get two no WAY will it stand. I also expect at that point the court being expanded and DC becoming a state. Anything less is not acceptable. And I do think this reality of it happening will be a match to ignite everything. It's why smart Republicans are saying nothing and always wanted this to be their "white whale " because it was a constant fire to their voting block and the other side never took voting as serious as they should have, ignored the pleas and warnings of the oppressed and depressed, telling us we were alarmist or wanting too much too fast. Well now it's happened, and it's just the beginning. People like Alito and Thomas are cocky smug bastards and think shit won't go down. I think they are wrong.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Even though it doesn't affect me directly, and despite how this was a long time coming, I still feel abhorred by what took place today. I understand that progress isn't a straight line, that it moves back and forth, but this overturning of Wade has turned back the clock since before I was born, and in a time of domestic terrorism threats they roll back laws that helped prevent violence.

I don't believe this is the will of the American people but I think the "game" was setup for American people's wishes to become irrelevant and that is utterly wrong and despicable. What is possibly the worst President America already had has packed the court so that, if nothing changes, the rights and liberties that are so often bragged about will be taken further back, leaving people in further misery, debt and fear and I feel helplessly frustrated watching all this happen from a small island in the middle of nowhere.

To my American brethren I wish all of you the best of luck. I hope you will contest this decision in the loudest of ways you can and from my part I will pledge whatever money I can to help bring back those rights.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,053
Voting doesn't change anything they say as abortion is immediately banned in only red/purple states.

I can literally literally draw you a fucking goddamn map to show you what voting changes.
Yeah but something something not immediate something something lazy Dems something something Joe Manchin.


It's all blending together now.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,843
i love politics in america. i could vote for democrats and they could win every election and republicans still get everything they want while dems go "wow, i can't believe that happened?!?!" and post a video about Lin Manual Miranda badly rapping about some shit
Dems have never even come close to "winning every election," and the only states that banned abortion today are the ones controlled by Republicans.

Is that not a noticeable difference to you?
 

Hu3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
i love politics in america. i could vote for democrats and they could win every election and republicans still get everything they want while dems go "wow, i can't believe that happened?!?!" and post a video about Lin Manual Miranda badly rapping about some shit

The false equivalence in this thread is something else God damn
 

Zache

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,791
i love politics in america. i could vote for democrats and they could win every election and republicans still get everything they want while dems go "wow, i can't believe that happened?!?!" and post a video about Lin Manual Miranda badly rapping about some shit
If Dems won every elections how would this still happen?
This happened specially because Trump won and put three motherfucking SC judges on the bench
 

fr0st

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,492
So does this mean anything not in the constitution could be removed like healthcare and education?