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Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,705
the public image is:
republican: conservative (stay the same)
democrat: progressive (move forward)

when it's actually
republican: regressive (move backward)
democrat: conservative (stay the same)

the status quo is holy to the democratic party. even when that status quo changes. when they take a big loss the immediately go "Well i guess that's it. we'll win next time!!!" and when they do win they just fight to keep things the same.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
I have a message to everyone who's hearing/seeing/repeating criticism of Democractic politicians right now:

Follow the threads of whatever you hear back to their sources. Examine those sources. And ditch those sources. Unfollow the next person who says Democrats could have codified Roe. Unfriend or mute that casual acquaintance who wants to point out how Democrats didn't act or "didn't earn their vote." Because you follow that to its roots and I guarantee it's bad faith actors who want to tear down the one party of our two that actually stands against this GOP fuckery in any meaningful way. Democrats have issues? Sure. Sowing this shit *at this moment* when we're on the precipice of an election which would hand massive power back to the GOP? That's actively harmful. It depresses turnout, slims majorities in ways that give moderate Dems like Machin and Sinema outsized influence, and keeps shit from being done.

If there was ever a time for unity, it is now. The time for inward criticism is after we win the fight in November. Unfollow the shit that wants to tank any forward moment with "both sides" garbage.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,347
This country is really willing to set itself on fire over Bronze-Age mythology and guns. What a fucking shithole.
 

Tochtli79

Member
Jun 27, 2019
5,777
Mexico City
As someone from Latin America it's a crazy feeling watching the US regress so quickly on human rights while our region inches forward little by little thanks to all the people who've fought and are fighting for progress. I feel for all the women who will suffer because of this evil decision and fuck the asshole politicians behind it.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,751
It shouldnt. For some reason there are people who feel the need to be personally convinced by senate Democrats to go vote to protect their own rights. Hearing people say "go vote" should get you to do the same. Go tell everyone in your life who you know doesnt vote to go vote. If they respond in the same manner or tell you that their vote doesnt matter, you convince them that they are wrong.

Voting doesnt change the thing. Sorry, but there is no direct tanglible personal reward for voting other than maintaining your democracy, and a sticker. You have to consistently show up and get more people to do the same, in order to elect enough people to change the thing.

I wholeheartedly agree with you but I can also understand why many people who do vote tirelessly do feel frustrated and helpless when stuff like this happen even when they have done their damnedest.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
the public image is:
republican: conservative (stay the same)
democrat: progressive (move forward)

when it's actually
republican: regressive (move backward)
democrat: conservative (stay the same)

the status quo is holy to the democratic party. even when that status quo changes. when they take a big loss the immediately go "Well i guess that's it. we'll win next time!!!" and when they do win they just fight to keep things the same.
This is ignoring any progress this country has eeked out in the last 100 years. It is so hard to move the needle forward that it can be perceived as staying the same, but it's just not true.
 

AtmaPhoenix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,001
The Internet
They're not saying they can't do anything until they're re-elected, they're saying they can't do anything until more of them are elected. Which is true.

There is not anything they can do legislatively along as Manchin and Sinema oppose abolishing the filibuster.

They need more people in seats to make passing laws and meaningful change...so yes, voting is what they are calling for.

I understand that they need more Democrats in seats. That's not what I'm arguing.

It's their messaging that's all out of whack. Just saying "go vote" when they've made promises going into the 2020 election and also said "go vote" then makes their messaging and stance look weak. Biden looks ineffectual. They need to attempt to pass things and then turn and say "hey, we tried to do something, but we don't have enough people, go vote." The fact that they read poems and sing songs and say "go vote" doesn't help get the people who are angry and disappointed in them on their side. They need to promise action NOW even if they know it won't pass, because they NEED to make the Republicans the bad guys instead of this bipartisanship bullshit.
 

Deleted member 29691

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,883
I have a message to everyone who's hearing/seeing/repeating criticism of Democractic politicians right now:

Follow the threads of whatever you hear back to their sources. Examine those sources. And ditch those sources. Unfollow the next person who says Democrats could have codified Roe. Unfriend or mute that casual acquaintance who wants to point out how Democrats didn't act or "didn't earn their vote." Because you follow that to its roots and I guarantee it's bad faith actors who want to tear down the one party of our two that actually stands against this GOP fuckery in any meaningful way. Democrats have issues? Sure. Sowing this shit *at this moment* when we're on the precipice of an election which would hand massive power back to the GOP? That's actively harmful. It depresses turnout, slims majorities in ways that give moderate Dems like Machin and Sinema outsized influence, and keeps shit from being done.

If there was ever a time for unity, it is now. The time for inward criticism is after we win the fight in November. Unfollow the shit that wants to tank any forward moment with "both sides" garbage.

Truly the most milk toast thing I've ever read here.

Read me another poem Nancy.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
I understand that they need more Democrats in seats. That's not what I'm arguing.

It's their messaging that's all out of whack. Just saying "go vote" when they've made promises going into the 2020 election and also said "go vote" then makes their messaging and stance look weak. Biden looks ineffectual. They need to attempt to pass things and then turn and say "hey, we tried to do something, but we don't have enough people, go vote." The fact that they read poems and sing songs and say "go vote" doesn't help get the people who are angry and disappointed in them on their side. They need to promise action NOW even if they know it won't pass, because they NEED to make the Republicans the bad guys instead of this bipartisanship bullshit.
They are doing this though! And for the following sentence, stop digesting the messaging from 20 second tweets.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,429
So question, what would be a way to actually go back on this? Would there need to be a whole new case about abortion and then the supreme court with judges that aren't a bunch of retrogrades reach a decision that allows it again?
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,303

Wow I did see the map earlier but missed the article, this goes into detail for every state, thanks.

Looks like there's job to be done in each and everyone of those states labeled as "Uncertain", for example mobilizing people for the Kansas referendum, making sure key officials in other states are elected in November etc

Trying to send a positive message to my brethren across the pond, there's work to be done in the next few months that can result in some positive outcomes that can affect quite a bit of people for good
 

ajido

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Dec 7, 2018
1,194
its cheaper for a company to pay for your travel + your abortion than it is have an employee take time off for maternity leave and have 18+ years of leaving work early to take care of your kid etc

Oh I get that, but as someone who manages people and approves expense reports I'd be horrified to be involved in any step of this process for someone. It's none of my business!
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,943
I have a message to everyone who's hearing/seeing/repeating criticism of Democractic politicians right now:

Follow the threads of whatever you hear back to their sources. Examine those sources. And ditch those sources. Unfollow the next person who says Democrats could have codified Roe. Unfriend or mute that casual acquaintance who wants to point out how Democrats didn't act or "didn't earn their vote." Because you follow that to its roots and I guarantee it's bad faith actors who want to tear down the one party of our two that actually stands against this GOP fuckery in any meaningful way. Democrats have issues? Sure. Sowing this shit *at this moment* when we're on the precipice of an election which would hand massive power back to the GOP? That's actively harmful. It depresses turnout, slims majorities in ways that give moderate Dems like Machin and Sinema outsized influence, and keeps shit from being done.

If there was ever a time for unity, it is now. The time for inward criticism is after we win the fight in November. Unfollow the shit that wants to tank any forward moment with "both sides" garbage.

I have yet to see such an astute summary of the Real Shit advice I give my family and friends.

Mind who you let whisper in your ear. Mind your sources. Be wary of anyone who only seems to want to keep you in a combined state of angry and inactive.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,852
The Supreme Court can over-ride any law passed, and it will be conservative for decades if nothing is done.

Voting for a few more Democratic Senators also doesn't change the fact that the math constantly changes depending on the conditions. Manchin and Sinema are the face of it now, but there are more people who will come along and sit in those seats if the Dems somehow gain seats rather than lose them.

Telling people to use their voice or vote more when they are unwilling to lift a finger is a big "fuck you." That is really no surprise. They are who we thought they were.
 

bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
I understand that they need more Democrats in seats. That's not what I'm arguing.

It's their messaging that's all out of whack. Just saying "go vote" when they've made promises going into the 2020 election and also said "go vote" then makes their messaging and stance look weak. Biden looks ineffectual. They need to attempt to pass things and then turn and say "hey, we tried to do something, but we don't have enough people, go vote." The fact that they read poems and sing songs and say "go vote" doesn't help get the people who are angry and disappointed in them on their side. They need to promise action NOW even if they know it won't pass, because they NEED to make the Republicans the bad guys instead of this bipartisanship bullshit.

The Democratic House passed the Women's Health Protection Act last year.

WHPA-Rally-U.S.-Capitol-scaled-aspect-ratio-16-9-scaled.jpg


Schumer forced a vote on it in the Senate in May after the decision leaked. They did what you asked.
 

skeptem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,745
I have a friend who is telling me that past abortions will now also be considered felonies in some states. Is there any validity to this?

There is just so much terrible crap to navigate through that I can tell what's real and what's not in these trigger laws.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,964
I have a message to everyone who's hearing/seeing/repeating criticism of Democractic politicians right now:

Follow the threads of whatever you hear back to their sources. Examine those sources. And ditch those sources. Unfollow the next person who says Democrats could have codified Roe. Unfriend or mute that casual acquaintance who wants to point out how Democrats didn't act or "didn't earn their vote." Because you follow that to its roots and I guarantee it's bad faith actors who want to tear down the one party of our two that actually stands against this GOP fuckery in any meaningful way. Democrats have issues? Sure. Sowing this shit *at this moment* when we're on the precipice of an election which would hand massive power back to the GOP? That's actively harmful. It depresses turnout, slims majorities in ways that give moderate Dems like Machin and Sinema outsized influence, and keeps shit from being done.

If there was ever a time for unity, it is now. The time for inward criticism is after we win the fight in November. Unfollow the shit that wants to tank any forward moment with "both sides" garbage.

I largely agree with this, but we should always self scout. Constant active criticism is healthy and needed. But the bad faith actors and arguments need to be rooted out and synthesized, because it actively supports conservative momentum.
 

AtmaPhoenix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,001
The Internet
They are doing this though! And for the following sentence, stop digesting the messaging from 20 second tweets.

The people that need to be reassured by the messaging ARE getting it from 20 second tweets, though. Maybe that's the fault of the people reporting what they're saying, but it's the younger demographic that needs to not feel despair at how ineffectual Democrats are now. And if that's how they process news and information, Democrats need to learn how to get their point across better no matter how it gets reported on.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
Democrats about to take a supermajority this fall. It's about to be hell on wheels at the voting booths.
 

Wong Kar Why

Unshakable Resolve
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
This is ignoring any progress this country has eeked out in the last 100 years. It is so hard to move the needle forward that it can be perceived as staying the same, but it's just not true.
yeah it's hard to make progress when there are many solutions to the same goal. much easier to roll shit back or stand your ground on certain "liberties." but with that said, it's so damn frustrating seeing this country take so many steps back and a few steps forward.
 

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,896
I have a message to everyone who's hearing/seeing/repeating criticism of Democractic politicians right now:

Follow the threads of whatever you hear back to their sources. Examine those sources. And ditch those sources. Unfollow the next person who says Democrats could have codified Roe. Unfriend or mute that casual acquaintance who wants to point out how Democrats didn't act or "didn't earn their vote." Because you follow that to its roots and I guarantee it's bad faith actors who want to tear down the one party of our two that actually stands against this GOP fuckery in any meaningful way. Democrats have issues? Sure. Sowing this shit *at this moment* when we're on the precipice of an election which would hand massive power back to the GOP? That's actively harmful. It depresses turnout, slims majorities in ways that give moderate Dems like Machin and Sinema outsized influence, and keeps shit from being done.

If there was ever a time for unity, it is now. The time for inward criticism is after we win the fight in November. Unfollow the shit that wants to tank any forward moment with "both sides" garbage.
Thank you! I'm so tired of so many ignorant people coming into this thread with so little understanding of how the United States government works while justifying that they can't be bothered to do more because they don't like manchin or some other lame excuse
 
Where is this violent backlash against progress coming from? Like, why now? Roe v. Wade stood for nearly 50 years! Is there a theory for why this rabid anti-progressive base has grown so powerful in the past decade?
White people are on track to becoming a minority in America. No, seriously that's what it is all about as dumb as it fucking sound.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
I have a friend who is telling me that past abortions will now also be considered felonies in some states. Is there any validity to this?

There is just so much terrible crap to navigate through that I can tell what's real and what's not in these trigger laws.
This isn't true. There's a specific code against retroactivity, ex post facto.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
the public image is:
republican: conservative (stay the same)
democrat: progressive (move forward)

when it's actually
republican: regressive (move backward)
democrat: conservative (stay the same)

the status quo is holy to the democratic party. even when that status quo changes. when they take a big loss the immediately go "Well i guess that's it. we'll win next time!!!" and when they do win they just fight to keep things the same.

Ehhh it's move forward as much as is possible in a big tent party

ACA was forward just not forward forward
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,403
So question, what would be a way to actually go back on this? Would there need to be a whole new case about abortion and then the supreme court with judges that aren't a bunch of retrogrades reach a decision that allows it again?

Yes, if we want to codify the case under the new case we would need a SCOTUS ruling applying strict scrutiny like Roe did.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
I have a friend who is telling me that past abortions will now also be considered felonies in some states. Is there any validity to this?

There is just so much terrible crap to navigate through that I can tell what's real and what's not in these trigger laws.

No validity to it whatsoever. It's a law that wasn't in effect, and thus impossible to violate.