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Riddler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,779
She ended up quite the Nostradamus.
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

I love your post so much. It's so spot on.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Unfortunately, I doubt we'll see Biden come out super forcefully and angrily like he should in an hour. He'll likely echo what Pelosi was saying about how we have to "vote harder," basically. Which is true, but it would be nice to hear the POTUS as angry as we all are and eviscerate the GOP and this ultra-partisan SC.

He really should try to scare the American people about future ruling on LGBTQ rights and birth control, etc. Make people understand what's coming next. Fear may be the only thing that works.

That's exactly what I'm expecting to. It'll essentially be his gun control speech from a few weeks ago which really came down to "This sucks, but the only way to fix it is to vote, unless congress actually does something about it". The sad thing is that I don't really know what else he could do; he (and Pelosi) aren't wrong.
 

SwampBastard

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
11,026
I should almost certainly know this, but I thought SCOTUS had to have a new case come up to overturn previous precedent. Can they seriously just overturn decided cases at their whim?
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,211
Except that's not my point at all.

How does not inciting the enemy or putting them in power become we could've had a better candidate?
I'm just saying Hillary's pied piper strategy probably had little to do with Trump winning the nomination. What is your point if not to say that her actions made Trump the nominee?
 
OP
OP
kalindana

kalindana

Member
Oct 28, 2018
3,146

www.texastribune.org

Abortions in Texas have stopped after Attorney General Ken Paxton said pre-Roe bans could be in effect, clinics say

Paxton and some anti-abortion activists are arguing that state laws that banned abortion before Roe v. Wade — and were never repealed — could now be in effect in Texas.
www.texastribune.org

With the end of Roe, Texans will have to travel long distances for legal abortions

New Mexico is expected to become a “haven state” where abortion remains legal and largely accessible. That state has six abortion clinics and is gearing up for an influx of patients. The nearest clinic there is a 12-hour drive from Houston and a 10-hour drive from Dallas.
 

Deleted member 9241

Oct 26, 2017
10,416
Not in a few weeks. To my knowledge there is not a pending case. Need a case in front of them so maybe a year.

Indeed. What he is actually doing is broadcasting a signal to conservatives to start challenging these cases in the lower courts because the highest court is basically just waiting for the opportunity to overturn them.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,757
Elf Tower, New Mexico
I don't think the majority of those in this forum really get how incredibly horrifying this is.

My daughter and I now have less rights than a corpse. We are officially second class citizens, with no right to make decisions over our own bodies. And worse is glimmering on the horizon.

I just...I'm so fucking devastated. And most of the people want to argue about fault and score points.
 

oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,968
Night City
I know gutless liberals don't want to hear it because they just want to turn the other cheek while their freedoms erode to unelected fascists that don't care, but at this point the only answer is violence. You have to actually be willing to defend your rights.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,955
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

The biggest lie some of the left have allowed themselves to be duped into believing is that voting is a power that only they have. And that the right only represents stasis. No; Republicans are very much the reversal of progress.
 

Zache

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,791
Republicans do something evil --> "Here's why the Democrats are actually at fault."

Like clockwork, ugh.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,829
Women and Minority groups are 24/7 under attack. It's the Dems fault for not being pro-active in protecting these groups. They are a flaccid reactionary party.
One party is ineffectual and flaccid, with the occasional good moment.
The other is calculated evil working to harm people.
Gee I wonder who to blame.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,997
It got his killer convicted. It got Ahmad Arbery's murderers convicted. That wouldn't have happened without them.

That's what the problem with folks like you, and worse folks. Sustained campaigns, be it voting or protests, do not pay massive dividends immediately and do not guarantee those payouts forever. The Civil Rights movement didn't happen over a single simmer. It took Republicans 50 years of effort to get Roe overturned.

Y'all are either lazy, cowards, or both.

It did which is a very good thing.

I'm not optimistic about protests doing anything substantial in general. I guarantee you I put more work into my community than the vast majority of folks here. I'm not lazy or a coward, just not optimistic.

And it's okay to not be optimistic or to think the sky is falling right now. We just received horrible news.
 

Uncle at Nintendo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Jan 3, 2018
8,590
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

Chuds call team red RINOs and shit all the time. They just have better politicians like McConnel who actually believe the shit they say. Meanwhile most dems are in office for the paycheck.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,539
Cape Cod, MA
She just backed an anti abortion candidate under FBI investigation. You know what Pelosi hates more than Roe v Wade being overturned? Leftists.
This is a bullshit purity argument.

She backed *hundreds* of pro-choice candidates (and EVERY SINGLE LEFTIST DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE). She whipped her party to successfully pass a bill in the House to codify Roe vs Wade (and then some).

Her stance on the issue of abortion is crystal clear, and posts like this absolutely misrepresent it.
 

KatieKatsup

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
964
Indeed. What he is actually doing is broadcasting a signal to conservatives to start challenging these cases in the lower courts because the highest court is basically just waiting for the opportunity to overturn them.
Yes, that's absolutely the game plan. It's why this option to overturn Roe was "leaked" in the first place. It was to garner support and signal that the Court is willing and ready to make these decisions.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,250
New York City
Elections are and always have been to prevent catastrophe. Vote against catastrophy no matter how angry it makes you.
 

darkwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,952
banning contraception makes sense to an Evangelican , non marital sex is basically banned in the Bible, also masturbation

can't believe to see this happening in America
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,836
the wilderness
I don't think the majority of those in this forum really get how incredibly horrifying this is.

My daughter and I now have less rights than a corpse. We are officially second class citizens, with no right to make decisions over our own bodies. And worse is glimmering on the horizon.

I just...I'm so fucking devastated. And most of the people want to argue about fault and score points.

☝️
 

Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,450
"No Democratic president cares about pushing their agenda" is so objectively untrue that I don't know how to refute it without just copying and pasting Wikipedia pages of congressional votes!

Democratic legislative agendas are extremely complicated and ambitious — ideologically and procedurally. Mix a broad, diverse agenda of competing interests with a broad, diverse party of competing interests, with only two years to get it all done, and it should be no surprise why a lot of Democratic wishlist items don't end up passing. It's not for lack of caring or interest. Just the opposite — too many different interests pushing in different directions.


Exactly. This is much more succinct than how I put it lol
Yeah. That is a really good point, but I feel like this always leads to the idea of the left getting more moderate than progressive. Shit is tiring ;(
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,189
What a fucking disgrace, there is literally no fucking argument in favor of taking away the option

This are the same shitty assholes who then give no fucks about what happens after the baby is born, there are even a lot of the shitty people who are antiabortion have taken them in secret
 

Ito007

Member
May 6, 2021
24
I remember Clarence Thomas being afraid that the leaks would cause people to lose faith in the Supreme Court. This guaranteed that I've lost faith in them.
 

Booshka

Banned
May 8, 2018
3,957
Colton, CA
Where is this violent backlash against progress coming from? Like, why now? Roe v. Wade stood for nearly 50 years! Is there a theory for why this rabid anti-progressive base has grown so powerful in the past decade?
Demographic change and blowback from younger and progressive people. Conservatives have been steadfast in their agenda for decades. There is no class consciousness in this country and we are the least engaged electorate because our material conditions have only become more and more oppressive through liberal economic policies.

We need a general strike to affect change, but people don't even understand their own labor power to do it.
 

Jakten

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
Devil World, Toronto
Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

You'd think that left leaning people would be good at understanding and utilizing the power of unity. But obviously the reason the right hates unions so much is because they understand the power they have. It's just a cruel irony that since they understand that power they've been able to utilize it so well for themselves.
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,211


dont worry, everyone. theyre gonna talk about it next month.

jvjvlmplu7twnoueqtuu.png


We're gonna have a hearing next month
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,857
I'm just saying Hillary's pied piper strategy probably had little to do with Trump winning the nomination. What is your point if not to say that her actions made Trump the nominee?

Little as in her media allies being on various network thinking trump was a good thing is little to you.

I don't agree with your notion of impact either. Her actions didn't help herself or her campaign.

She had plenty of other actions that didn''t help her out. I've called out her poorly run campaign on not visting MI or Wi at all.
 

SolarPowered

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,211
The consequences of putting so much power into the hands of unelected septuagenarians and octogenarians with lifelong terms. Can't wait for the horrible headlines to come. Maybe the teachers will have to teach while strapped with a nine!
 

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
Stop assigning blame, and start do something to fix it.

if we don't know why it happened, how can we do anything to fix it?

On a local level I'm supporting abortion funds/mutual aid, on a federal level it's gonna take the dems pulling their heads out of their asses.

I've voted for them in every fucking election for almost 30 years so please don't tell me to vote.
 
Well, the point is to play hardball fuck Mitch and fuck the decorum. Even if the term expired and Mitch wins the senate, well, good luck to him to try and unseat a sitting Supreme Court Judge. That's the play.
He wouldn't be "a sitting Supreme Court judge". Garland's term would have expired on January 3, leaving a new vacancy for Trump to fill when he took office.

I'm all for playing hardball, but you can't play hardball without a ball, and Obama didn't have a ball.


are you sure about that. You can't think of any time the numbers were there to codify roe?

Yes, I am sure about that.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,313
It got his killer convicted. It got Ahmad Arbery's murderers convicted. That wouldn't have happened without them.

That's what the problem with folks like you, and worse folks. Sustained campaigns, be it voting or protests, do not pay massive dividends immediately and do not guarantee those payouts forever. Small victories that pile on and grow over time are the best sign of success, not an indicator of failure. The Civil Rights movement didn't happen over a single summer. It took Republicans 50 years of effort to get Roe overturned.

Y'all are either lazy, cowards, or both.
In fact, this kind of thing is a decent sign that progress has been made. It's an eternal fight and we're seeing a conservative backlash because progress was made. The one positive note is that despite conservative efforts, every change is permanent in some way and you can never really go back. So despite their victories today, the progress we made with Roe and in the 50 years since irrevocably changed the country and their attempts to backtrack will never fully succeed.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,432
I feel like young people have been saying this for decades

It's like an inherent disadvantage in the system that young people don't vote as often as the elderly because no one has been able to crack the code in getting young people to vote reliably relative to other demographics.


If you're constantly told by your peers and pop culture that your voice doesn't matter, and then you're only pushed to vote when the party needs you to, it can make anyone cynical. It's not right, it's not fair, but it's there.


They literally can just say whatever they want and have it be considered true. Like that's their entire deal whenever they invoke the founding fathers and what they intended, etc. It is specifically something designed to sound credible (despite that they are completely unqualified when it comes to actually knowing that sort of history), so they can back up whatever point they want to make.

The specifics matter only in that some of the individual conservative justices have some quirks where they do actually care about one point or another and may split on that. But if they all want to do something, they can pull the reason out of thin air.


That's not what they've been doing though. In recent rulings they've been very surgically going after rules that haven't been codified and norms that relied on the spirit of the law instead of the letter. Most of the rulings they've handed down, including overturning Roe, could be fixed by something (technically) as easy (though not practically) as just passing the law that states it instead of relying onperceived rights, like privacy. Which coincidentally is also how they'll dismantle gay rights and even things as unthinkable as contraception and interracial marriage.