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Superman vs. Captain Marvel

Finaika

Finaika

Member
Dec 11, 2017
13,344
How about Supergirl vs Captain Marvel? They both have so many similarities it's not even funny lol

Both are blonde.
Basically both are woman version of an existing male superhero.
Both have insecurities about upholding the mantle of their male counterpart (House of El & Captain Marvel mantle).
Similar super powers.
Similar civilian names (Kara Danvers & Carol Danvers).
Both has an orange cat (Streaky & Goose).
 
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SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,510
Earth, 21st Century
This thread is the first time I learn that Shazam is the original Captain Marvel. Isn't he some kid who transforms into an adult? Or is that a different Shazam?
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,252
SolVanderlyn said:
This thread is the first time I learn that Shazam is the original Captain Marvel. Isn't he some kid who transforms into an adult? Or is that a different Shazam?
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Same Shazam. His current name comes from the Wizard Shazam, who used to go by Vlarem since he too was powered by some gods.

But because of the lawsuit from DC, Marvel putting out a Captain Marvel book in the 70s, and everything he appeared in having Shazam in the title, non-comic fans and the casuals called Billy Shazam for decades. It wasn't until 2011 that DC decided to just call him Shazam to cut down the confusion.
 
Black_Stride

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,390
Cpt-GargameL said:
Since Death Battle pulls from the source material, what would you say is the correct reference to use then? If you know any other source that compiles information as they do if not better please link it so we can discuss.
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Its still an opioion piece no different to someone posting on a forum their fav feat.
Just look at the gauntlet limitation, no one talks about lokis gauntlet when mentioning Darkseid v Thanos.

And hasnt deathbattle had some really dicey victories, i cant remember which was my final straw but after one of their vids i just said fuck these guy cherry picking and purposely ignoring other shit
TheMadTitan said:
Post Secret Wars, I don't think that limitation applies since Loki essentially formed an Infinity Gauntlet with stones pulled from different universes during the Infinity Wars arc last year.
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The Silver

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,730
Death Battle completely lost me after they had Toph beat Gaara. The fight animations are still fun to watch sometimes though.
 

Deleted member 56595

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 8, 2019
986
deimosmasque said:
And if Galactus dies the universe dies. But Thanos still can beat him in the comics with the Gauntlet. And the Galactus as a primal force of the universe that needs to existed for the universe to exist was established way before the Infinity Gauntlet story.

Doesn't matter anyways. This is about Carol v Supes and even I say she can't beat him.

And I'm apparently the Anti-Slayven when it comes to Carol.
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No you don't seem to be understanding his point

Galactus exists in one universe

Darkseid literally occupies multiple universes

His death would lead to the destruction of the entire DC multiverse

don't know why you're trying so hard to die on the Thanos hill, but breh he wouldn't stand a chance against Darkseid gauntlet or no gauntlet
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
"true" Darkseid lol. That's always the fallback.

Anyway, Superman of course beats Carol. DC Supe level characters operate on a different level to Marvel ones, not that that makes them better characters obviously.
 
Black_Stride

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,390
Isnt Gladiator literally Marvels Superman, even more so than Hyperion.

His name is Kallark.....seriously Clark - Kallark
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,252
DeltaRed said:
"true" Darkseid lol. That's always the fallback.

Anyway, Superman of course beats Carol. DC Supe level characters operate on a different level to Marvel ones, not that that makes them better characters obviously.
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Everyone says that, but they really don't. They're all roughly on the same tier. The difference is that DC tends to center them mostly on Earth while Marvel has a mix between Earth and space.

Black_Stride said:
Isnt Gladiator literally Marvels Superman, even more so than Hyperion.

His name is Kallark.....seriously Clark - Kallark
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Hyperion is more Superman than Gladiator. Gladiator has the name, Hyperion has the whole origin: from being sent off from a dying race/community to live among regular people to being powered by the sun.
 
Ichthyosaurus

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Finaika said:
How about Supergirl vs Captain Marvel? They both have so many similarities it's not even funny lol

Both are blonde.
Basically both are woman version of an existing male superhero.
Both have insecurities about upholding the mantle of their male counterpart (House of El & Captain Marvel mantle).
Similar super powers.
Similar civilian names (Kara Danvers & Carol Danvers).
Both has an orange cat (Streaky & Goose).
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tenor.gif


VS

ImpossibleGleamingAfricangroundhornbill-size_restricted.gif


Fight!
 
BigDes

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,799
TheMadTitan said:
Everyone says that, but they really don't. They're all roughly on the same tier. The difference is that DC tends to center them mostly on Earth while Marvel has a mix between Earth and space.


Hyperion is more Superman than Gladiator. Gladiator has the name, Hyperion has the whole origin: from being sent off from a dying race/community to live among regular people to being powered by the sun.
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Depends on which Hyperion we're talking about.
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,988
Superman in the older days did ridiculous things as the thread shows, I've never seen Carol dragging a half dozen planets to the other side of the universe.
 
Sasliquid

Sasliquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
Superman. He's as powerful as he needs to be for good to win and is morally just 99% of the time.
 
Wackamole

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,942
Whatever the writers come up with at that point? I mean, these fights are always seem so arbitrary.
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,252
BigDes said:
Depends on which Hyperion we're talking about.
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Every Hyperion has roughly the same origin, except for King Hyperion, Squadron Sinister Hyperion, and Hickman's Hyperion. And Hickman's only differs in that he was on some futuristic planet that may or may not have been the Earth analog of his universe.

astro said:
Superman in the older days did ridiculous things as the thread shows, I've never seen Carol dragging a half dozen planets to the other side of the universe.
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Those feats aren't canon anymore, that may as well be a different character at this point (because it is). Modern day Superman has a peak that is exceeded by the Silver Age. Dr Strange of around that time is similarly OP, even more so than Superman.
 
Sgt. Demblant

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Genis shall always be #1 in my heart.

Regarding who's the better person / hero.
It's tough because they are on very uneven ground. Modern Carol has only been a thing for a few years.
I'm not a fan of her tbh but I haven't seen the film and it's clear the character was mishandled for decades in the comics by male writers who had no idea what the fuck they were doing and clearly considered her to be a throwaway character so I can't really hold that against her. Still, her militaristic background and the way they tend to depict her as being pretty conservative (maybe not anymore, I haven't kept up) makes it kind of a struggle for me to even want to pick up one of her comics.
Supes is just a good dude trying to do his best. Simple as that. And I like that simplicity.

In terms of power levels, I like the Grant Morrison explanation that Superman's very nature is that he gets to win and have a happy ending in his stories. Doesn't matter who or what he's facing. That's just the essence of his character.
Also, god once had to ask him nicely not to break the universe. So, there's that.
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,988
TheMadTitan said:
Every Hyperion has roughly the same origin, except for King Hyperion, Squadron Sinister Hyperion, and Hickman's Hyperion. And Hickman's only differs in that he was on some futuristic planet that may or may not have been the Earth analog of his universe.

Those feats aren't canon anymore, that may as well be a different character at this point (because it is). Modern day Superman has a peak that is exceeded by the Silver Age. Dr Strange of around that time is similarly OP, even more so than Superman.
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Do we only ever use current cannon in these debates?
 
subpar spatula

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,152
TheMadTitan said:
Is there an actual analysis out there? I'm sure there is. Did I read or watch it? No.

Why?

Because I read comics and I've read several of the comics that the bits of information is sourced from. Sometimes, it's wrong and it shapes the outcomes. Sometimes it's wrong and it doesn't change the outcome, but changes out close fights are. They did it with Goku vs Superman where they downplayed Goku's stats somewhat (even though he was destined to lose that), they did it with Carol vs Billy (Carol would still lose, but the fight would've been closer than depicted), and from what people were saying, they did it with the most recent Naruto vs battle as well, but I don't know enough about Naruto to comment on that.

Going back to Cap vs Cap specifically, they cite Carol has having max of 92 tons worth of striking power but then go on to state she punched a asteroid apart, which doesn't make sense for only having 92 tons of striking power. Not to mention, they cap her max speed at lightspeed when she's clearly gone FTL before.

It's all little things, but it's all things that shape depictions of characters.
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This isn't an analysis, you're just saying you've read comics therefore you know you're right. They gave their perspective with their reasoning and its more than you're putting in.

FYI, they said she has 92 tons of striking force. They also said she could, "toss around and obliterate the remnants of this enormous asteroid":

So they aren't saying she punched the asteroid, but that she threw it and the corresponding images they have reinforce it.

I think y'all need to do more than just say, "No, I read comics so believe me".
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
The problem when comparing DC characters to Marvel is their speed. You can find examples of Marvel characters travelling at extreme speeds but DC characters regularly fight at those speeds, and that sort of power almost negates everything else.
 
Visanideth

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
This is like the ultimate battle of the most boring superheroes ever.

But while Supes is probably still going to win against Carol, people are selling her comicbook version short. She's got all the bullshit powers - FTL flight and reflexes, precognition, planet-busting beams. She's Goku.
 
Z-Beat

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,854
I thought Sentry was Marvel's Superman.

Carol is a damn mess with alcoholism, temporal profiling, and talking shit to holocaust survivors while Supes basically tries to maintain being perfect because someone with his amount of power has to be.

Marvel characters are lower on the power scale in general. Look at Batman. He's just a dude. If that's what a regular dude can do in your universe imagine what the gods are like. That said, it makes the Marvel characters more entertaining. Wonder Woman never got evicted
 
Chrome Hyena

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,770
Ichthyosaurus said:
Carol takes out the biggest military starships in the universe as through they were made of butter in seconds.
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True.

But that world engine is literally making an atmosphere around it thats toxic to its attacker while increasing the local gravity thousands of times judging by how Supes could barely stand at first. If she was thrown into that beam she wouldnt get up.
 
Zom

Zom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,191
Every vs battle against Superman is pointless, he is the OPest character ever, pick a version and you will lose, Golden age, thought robot, prime, one million, etc
 
GeminiX7

GeminiX7

Member
Feb 6, 2019
600
Siggy-P said:
Superman wins against most characters usually purely on account of his speed.

Most versions of him (excluding maybe the cartoons and Lego games here) can cross 100 feet and hit other characters before they even have time to flinch.
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And yet people think Flash would lose to someone like Batman because of bullshit like "prep time"
 
Prototype Viktor

Prototype Viktor

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
Finaika said:
How about Supergirl vs Captain Marvel? They both have so many similarities it's not even funny lol

Both are blonde.
Basically both are woman version of an existing male superhero.
Both have insecurities about upholding the mantle of their male counterpart (House of El & Captain Marvel mantle).
Similar super powers.
Similar civilian names (Kara Danvers & Carol Danvers).
Both has an orange cat (Streaky & Goose).
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well Supergirl is a terrible actor so Carol wins
 

Deleted member 31133

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
4,155
This isn't a fair fight.

Superman would win fairly easily in this match up.

If you want to give Superman a real challenge from the MCU, then give him somebody like Blue Marvel, King Hyperion or Death Seed Sentry.
 
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