Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 7 | King of Fighters: Dream Match Never Ends - (ERA, ARE YOU OKAY!?)

[BGBW]

For months people argued TGA was the only place to show the final character cos January is too close to the given February deadline.

Now, as we approach TGA, suddenly the idea of saving the final reveal for another day cos the final character is potentially not "suitable" for TGA is ok.

What a funny community this is.

 

[MondoMega]

For months people argued TGA was the only place to show the final character cos January is too close to the given February deadline.

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A lot of people in this thread bet on a reveal before TGA, actually. Plenty of people including myself who believed we would see a Smash presentation last month.

 

[theosmeo]

if we are making bets on what a "tga character" means, i think for a lot of people it means a character that isnt really in line with nintendo's aesthetics/has appeared on nintendo systems frequently.

most nintendo fans watch every direct but a lot less of them watch tgas, i remember last year a ton of people i played smash day 1 with were taken off guard when they heard joker was announced in the past hour(we had a meetup right when the game came out on the digital store) while i usually like watching tgas in the background while doing work i was out wrapping stuff up early so i could play smash that day so i missed tgas and jokers reveal as well because it wasnt a priority for me

what im getting at here is that its more likely for the character to be a more gamey mass appeal option: doom, dante, kos mos, heihachi/kazuya/jin, ect other humanoids
rather than a character that would appeal more to the nintendosphere of games: ameterasu, crash, phoenix wright, arle, hayabusa
i would really like to see these characters in smash and i dont want to downplay their chances or disappoint people who are excited about them but if we are already arguing within this mindset of "what makes sense for a tga reveal" who is actually watching the reveal is probably what is important to them

 

[Grapezard]

Last year's show had 26 million viewers, I imagine they'd include a Smash reveal if it was even slightly relevant to that audience. You know, if it's even a Smash reveal.

 

[Gartooth]

For months people argued TGA was the only place to show the final character cos January is too close to the given February deadline.

Now, as we approach TGA, suddenly the idea of saving the final reveal for another day cos the final character is potentially not "suitable" for TGA is ok.

What a funny community this is.

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I'm still predicting that fighter #5 will both debut at TGAs and be a character that resonates with that audience.

It is worth still noting that in the event that the character isn't popular with the American audience, Nintendo wouldn't be foolish enough to have them presented to a live crowd who reacts with disinterest and confusion. Especially in light of how much of a PR win the Joker reveal was last year.

 

[Melpomene]

Actually, on this note, I wonder if IntelliHeath could set up a new poll to see exactly how sure we all are of a Smash reveal at TGA this year.

 

[Sander VF]

TGA is a big stage with millions of viewers.

A character must be familiar with big crowds if they are to be shown there.

Which is why Leon, the unbeatable champion, will be shown at TGAs.

 

[Plum]

TGA is a big stage with millions of viewers.

A character must be familiar with big crowds if they are to be shown there.

Which is why Leon, the unbeatable champion, will be shown at TGAs.

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This is some bullshit.

Leon, the unbeatable champion, would completely ruin the meta of the game due to how unbeatable him and his Charizard are.

 

[Sander VF]

This is some bullshit.

Leon, the unbeatable champion, would completely ruin the meta of the game due to how unbeatable him and his Charizard are.

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Don't worry, we can mitigate it by having his poor sense of direction cause the player to accidentally run off stage at times.

It's like tripping, but only for Leon, the unbeatable champion, who is unbeatable.

 

[Naga]

Nintendo has been very smart about their messaging for Ultimate. I don't think they'd go into a show with a huge amount of eyes and drop something the majority of the audience doesn't know or care about. I think they'd rather miss an TGA reveal and do it their own way, if that were the case.

It is Nintendo, though. They're unpredictable! I just hope you're not disappointed if it doesn't go your way.

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It's really this simple in my eyes: if someone like Reimu is Challenger Pack 5, they won't be revealed at The Game Awards. January Nintendo Direct; Special Smash Presentation; doesn't matter.

It'd be really silly to assume that the characters were chosen based around where or when they would be shown; which is why no one actually believes that. On the other hand; dates and events were certainly taken into consideration when deciding the order the characters would be released in (as they were with the base roster). If you really think Hero's release two months before DQXI S or Banjo & Kazooie's announcement at E3 were just coincidental timing, I don't know what to tell you.

If they deemed the final character as unfitting for a western awards show, they'll simply just be shown somewhere else, as they would've planned months ago.

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This.
Denying that is either having a wild misunderstanding of how marketing works and how important it is, or well, pure denial.

That doesn't mean the TGA character will be necessarily super popular/iconic (masterchief, sora, etc), just that those events are chosen to give not only a bigger visibility to a reveal, but also a better reception.
Yes, P5 is a JRPG and might appear too "weeb" for a mainstream audience, but it also sold more than a couple million, and more than half of that in the west. Joker was a big name at the time. It was also a "holy shit" moment. They wouldn't have put Hero in the same position.

I don't see why some people are so angry about that anyway, given FP5 is not the last character being revealed anymore, and that there'll likely be two characters revealed that night, maybe for different audiences.

 

[Jonneh]

Geoff Keighley from Death Stranding joins the battle

 

[NotLiquid]

A character being "chosen" for the TGA crowd assumes that the character selection for the pass was made with the assumption that they were catering the selection around "the stage" of its reveal rather than because they earnestly wanted to include the character in the first place.

If character 5 turns out to be some big reveal, it won't be because it's at The Game Awards. And I still doubt character 5 has to be a big deal because it's last. We've learned by now that it never works that way. The last character is usually one that has a safety net, and is often a gamble.

If Nintendo wanted some crazy big deal announcement I doubt they'd put all their eggs in the Smash basket anyway. They did that song and dance last year. For this year, I'd expect actual game announcements rather than DLC.

 

[Deleted member 401]

what im getting at here is that its more likely for the character to be a more gamey mass appeal option: doom, dante, kos mos, heihachi/kazuya/jin, ect other humanoids
rather than a character that would appeal more to the nintendosphere of games: ameterasu, crash, phoenix wright, arle, hayabusa
i would really like to see these characters in smash and i dont want to downplay their chances or disappoint people who are excited about them but if we are already arguing within this mindset of "what makes sense for a tga reveal" who is actually watching the reveal is probably what is important to them

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hold up

Are you saying that a character whose series lived and died almost entirely on the PS2 and consistently underperformed has more mass appeal than a multiplat platforming mascot who's had two hugely successful remakes in the past three years??

 

[Dark Cloud]

I still think they're going to rig the Game Awards and say Death Stranding and Smash Ultimate tied to win GOTY. This will give them a chance to have Sakurai, Kojima and Geoff on stage to announce all 3 of them are the final Smash character.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

I still think they're going to rig the Game Awards and say Death Stranding and Smash Ultimate tied to win GOTY. This will give them a chance to have Sakurai, Kojima and Geoff on stage to announce all 3 of them are the final Smash character.

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TGA Trainer with Conan O'Brien as the trainer

 

[Melpomene]

A character being "chosen" for the TGA crowd assumes that the character selection for the pass was made with the assumption that they were catering the selection around "the stage" of its reveal rather than because they earnestly wanted to include the character in the first place.

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Again, I think the argument is not that they chose the character based on when and where they would be revealed, but the other way around.

 

[Jonneh]

The Game Awards is mostly made up of small announcements so I don't see why the character would need to be big to debut there

 

[Dark Cloud]

TGA Trainer with Conan O'Brien as the trainer

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With Norman Reedus as an Assist Trophy. Now I need a good stage...

 

[Sawyer]

what im getting at here is that its more likely for the character to be a more gamey mass appeal option: doom, dante, kos mos, heihachi/kazuya/jin, ect other humanoids
rather than a character that would appeal more to the nintendosphere of games: ameterasu, crash, phoenix wright, arle, hayabusa
i would really like to see these characters in smash and i dont want to downplay their chances or disappoint people who are excited about them but if we are already arguing within this mindset of "what makes sense for a tga reveal" who is actually watching the reveal is probably what is important to them

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Why are you putting Hayabusa in the Nintendo camp?

 

[Deleted member 401]

Honestly, I don't think a Game Awards reveal necessarily needs to be a huge character so much as they need to be someone who speaks more to players outside the typical Nintendo fanbase. Joker was a big reveal not just because Persona is a popular series, but also because it's a series that has always prioritized Sony consoles and has never stepped onto a different system for its mainline releases. Ergo, the core Persona fanbase has considerably less overlap with the Nintendo crowd than Sonic, Mega Man, Castlevania, Dragon Quest, etc.

 

[BGBW]

Is 16mil+ views mainstream enough?

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

With Norman Reedus as an Assist Trophy. Now I need a good stage...

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Does he carry you off stage or throw out product placement cans for players to pick up?

 

[Hikari]

The Game Awards is mostly made up of small announcements so I don't see why the character would need to be big to debut there

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it's a stupid argument to begin with

 

[Regulus Tera]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...e-items-and-new-mode-and-master-sword.156460/

This really feels like something that should have been in a Nintendo Direct.

At least we know Nintendo has stuff they can drop at any moment. Like, in the Game Awards...

 

[Neoxon]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...e-items-and-new-mode-and-master-sword.156460/

This really feels like something that should have been in a Nintendo Direct.

At least we know Nintendo has stuff they can drop at any moment. Like, in the Game Awards...

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We won't be getting another Direct until at least January, so they had to drop the news sometime. If anything, this shows that they have bigger news for The Game Awards.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Does he carry you off stage or throw out product placement cans for players to pick up?

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He'll throw out bags of Doritos chips. If you have Geoff out he'll eat them, turn into Doritos Pope and be so powerful he'll destroy your Nintendo Switch.

 

[Naga]

The Game Awards is mostly made up of small announcements so I don't see why the character would need to be big to debut there

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"small" announcements? Depends on your interests I guess.

Just the past two years we got those announcements:
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Dragon Age 4, From's next game (Sekiro), Crash Team Racing, Far Cry New Dawn, Mortal Kombat 11, The Outer Worlds, Bayonetta 3, In the valley of Gods, Zelda BOTW DLC, Soul Calibur 6...

Some of those games are pretty big, and they all usually follow the same pattern/are focused on the same audience.
Or is that another "modern Hayabusa isn't really interesting" moment? :p

TGA isn't Spike's VGA. At all. They don't have the biggest announcements for good reason, but they're certainly not "mostly small".

 

[BGBW]

Mario Maker 2 update makes sense to not appear at TGA - it's an info dump rather than a flashy trailer that events like TGA are known for.

 

[Sawyer]

The Game Awards is mostly made up of small announcements so I don't see why the character would need to be big to debut there

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I mean it's pretty much the second biggest non-platform exclusive reveal stage after E3 for third parties.
Gamescom gets reveals but it's not a focused live stream event.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Has Capcom/Phoenix Wright been disconfirmed by Verg or Sabi

 

[Neoxon]

Has Capcom/Phoenix Wright been disconfirmed by Verg or Sabi

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Does it matter? It's not like they're reliable.

With that said, I don't really keep up with their bullshit.

 

[NekoNeko]

Dorito Pope and Monster Energy Man team up like the Duck Hunt Duo.

 

[Melpomene]

Has Capcom/Phoenix Wright been disconfirmed by Verg or Sabi

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To the best of my knowledge, no, and on the very-off-chance they actually have a clue what they're talking about, it had damn well better stay that way.

 

[Gartooth]

TGAs reveals are often pretty small and not megatons, but they still cater to that audience. I don't think people lost their heads over the announcement that Bayonetta 1+2 are coming to the Switch, but the audience for that game overlapped with the demographic that TGAs caters to.

We are past the point of "Cranky Kong" reveals and have been for several years now.

 

[NotLiquid]

Again, I think the argument is not that they chose the character based on when and where they would be revealed, but the other way around.

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I still don't really think this makes much sense for a variety of reasons. You generally want to frontload the heavy hitters in order to maximize profits and make an impression on people. Why end on a "big" character when you can take the big characters instead as an incentive to buy into the next wave? From a business perspective, it makes the most sense for character 5 to be on the relatively lower end in terms of being a sales/hype driver, and if that's what they settle with, TGA just has to deal with it.

 

[rayngiraffe]

Nobody said your first paragraph...

If it's some super localized pick then they don't show it at the Game Awards or they show it in conjunction with the next character.

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I mean my first point was towards the argument that the final pick must be big or western centric because of the TGA. When the 5 picks were most likely decided first and then placed into their respective release slots. If the last pick wasn't as 'big' as some people here have stated what's the harm in releasing it in the TGA anyway? We're at the last pick and like what notliquid said, there's not much marketing sense in putting a character that will drive sales to the last fighter.

 

[Sawyer]

There's a slight chance that they could also tease the first character of wave 2. Nothing ingame, it will be a long way off but they could.
Joker was shown and wasn't released till April.

 

[Neoxon]

There's a slight chance that they could also tease the first character of wave 2. Nothing ingame, it will be a long way off but they could.
Joker was shown and wasn't released till April.

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You'd be better off saving that reveal for the Spring Direct, especially if #5 isn't far off. Two reveals like that seems more like an E3 thing.

 

[Jonneh]

"small" announcements? Depends on your interests I guess.

Just the past two years we got those announcements:
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Dragon Age 4, From's next game (Sekiro), Crash Team Racing, Far Cry New Dawn, Mortal Kombat 11, The Outer Worlds, Bayonetta 3, In the valley of Gods, Zelda BOTW DLC, Soul Calibur 6...

Some of those games are pretty big, and they all usually follow the same pattern/are focused on the same audience.
Or is that another "modern Hayabusa isn't really interesting" moment? :p

TGA isn't Spike's VGA. At all. They don't have the biggest announcements for good reason, but they're certainly not "mostly small".

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Yeah those games are big but they don't make up the majority of the show

Edit: Did we say modern Hayabusa isn't interesting? I don't recall that. I think one of us just argued that the retro appearance would be more iconic and others argued the opposite

 

[Odeko]

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I'm ashamed of my words and deeds

In my defense, I only said it because he looks like one

 

[ned_ballad]

Here's our next character

 

[Naga]

Yeah those games are big but they don't make up the majority of the show

Edit: Did we say modern Hayabusa isn't interesting? I don't recall that. I think one of us just argued that the retro appearance would be more iconic and others argued the opposite

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While they don't make the majority of the show, indies don't either. Most games are the "B-tier" games people like to talk about, but definitely have some budget behind them.
But if you check Nintendo, they have never brought only something "small" to TGA since it exists. People talking about Cranky Kong never reply to people reminding them that VGA was something completely different from TGA, where Geoff didn't have much freedom.

Nintendo at TGA:
- 2018 : Joker in Smash Bros , Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
- 2017 : Bayonetta 1+2 Switch, Bayonetta 3, Zelda BOTW DLC
- 2016 : Zelda BOTW exclusive gameplay presentation
- 2015 : tribute to Iwata (not much in 2015...)
- 2014 : Mario Maker, Codename Steam, Zelda ingame reveal (early build)

I was joking for the edit and paraphrasing a bit, but the retro Hayabusa was certainly the majority, and most of the people on the show didn't seem to know much about the modern one :p

 

[stan423321]

The Game Awards is mostly made up of small announcements so I don't see why the character would need to be big to debut there

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Insider hint alert! Doshin deconfirmed!

On a serious note, Jon, does Nintendo talk to you all about Smash since SSBU released, or is it all only about "completely" unreleased stuff?

 

[Horohorohoro]

I feel like people aren't getting the point behind the argument that if we get a reveal at the Game Awards then it isn't going to be a character the audience wouldn't be familiar with. I don't think characters were picked based on where they'd be revealed obviously, but they can pick where to reveal them and if a character is going to be someone the audience of the game awards isn't familiar with, then they can hold off on revealing them until like a January Direct or something. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand, lol.

 

[NotLiquid]

Per the decree of YouTube view count, I declare Travis a worthy contender for Smash with No More Heroes having multiple +1 million view videos on YouTube, one of them being +2.





(Okay that last one has 800k but it's split between GameSpot's uncensored trailer upload and Nintendo's main channel shut up)

 

[Jonneh]

I feel like people aren't getting the point behind the argument that if we get a reveal at the Game Awards then it isn't going to be a character the audience wouldn't be familiar with. I don't think characters were picked based on where they'd be revealed obviously, but they can pick where to reveal them and if a character is going to be someone the audience of the game awards isn't familiar with, then they can hold off on revealing them until like a January Direct or something. I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand, lol.

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A Smash character is a big announcement no matter who it is

 

[Dark Cloud]

YouTube video count? Some people get too offended over this. It's not hard to understand the marketing people have explained over many posts.

 

[HibbySloth]

While they don't make the majority of the show, indies don't either. Most games are the "B-tier" games people like to talk about, but definitely have some budget behind them.
But if you check Nintendo, they have never brought only something "small" to TGA since it exists. People talking about Cranky Kong never reply to people reminding them that VGA was something completely different from TGA, where Geoff didn't have much freedom.

Nintendo at TGA:
- 2018 : Joker in Smash Bros , Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
- 2017 : Bayonetta 1+2 Switch, Bayonetta 3, Zelda BOTW DLC
- 2016 : Zelda BOTW exclusive gameplay presentation
- 2015 : tribute to Iwata (not much in 2015...)
- 2014 : Mario Maker, Codename Steam, Zelda ingame reveal (early build)

I was joking for the edit and paraphrasing a bit, but the retro Hayabusa was certainly the majority, and most of the people on the show didn't seem to know much about the modern one :p

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How can you forgot the best reveal of them all? Cranky Kong in Fucking Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.

 

[Naga]

How can you forgot the best reveal of them all? Cranky Kong in Fucking Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.

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It's literally in the post you quoted, above the list lol.
That was before TGA was a thing.

 

[BGBW]

Nintendo better issue a public apology when Billy Bob Jr in seat H11 doesn't know who the character they revealed as Fighter #75 is.