Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 19 | The Unknown DLC will Continue

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Oh yeah, that's the Metroid sauce I want. Inject it into my veins.
It'll forever be a bummer that they're selling us Mii costumes instead of the occasional alt.

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It's funny to think how much more money Nintendo can make with smash but choose not too.

I can respect that. But...i would buy some music packs and alt costumes lol

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I find it slightly amusing how the Smash fandom might be the only fandom for a fighting game that actually demands the publisher to sell them more things as DLC. However, I understand the sentiment (sigh... seeing what some people do for mods, I REALLY understand it... sigh...).

The way I see it an HD console Fire Emblem game was going to happen anyway, because there is demonstrable profit to be made in it. Fire Emblem is at the heights of its popularity so Nintendo is assured that throwing extra hands into Three Houses' development would be worthwhile.

Golden Sun wasn't a flop or anything (I believe the first two games combined sold 1.5 mil or there abouts) but it was also dormant for several years, got revived on DS to little fanfare, and went right back to sleep. I don't see why or how Nintendo would be willing to throw that many resources into the development of a game where it can't be accurately predicted if the sales numbers will be worth it.

This is the kind of thing that happens through ballooning HD development costs and the death of the handheld market. They could revive Golden Sun as a low stake game appropriately budgeted and marketed to an audience they know will want it, but there's not really a lot of profit to be made.

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The thing about Golden Sun is that both GBA installments actually sold one million each; 2.77m together.

Then they threw away that momentum, went dormant for too long before making a sequel, then that sequel disapointed fans and performed poorly.

That initial success is why a Golden Sun revival isn't IMPOSSIBLE; but I consider it unlikely.

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Well, those are fair points, yes.

Honestly, at this point I just hope they eventually reissue the GBA games in some way (maybe when/if they finally start adding GBA games to the Switch Online service).

 

[Metto]

Golden Sun just feels redundant when Nintendo already has other, more popular RPG series like Pokemon and Xenoblade.

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I dunno I could see room for Golden Sun. Nintendo has a lot of franchises for 2D platformers what's a more modest turn base RPG franchise gonna impede on. If anything the fact the Switch has a devoted market to RPG games and have had these games do incredibly well (Xenoblade 2, Three Houses, Sword and Shield) def shows that the Switch player base is eager for these types of games

 

[Grapezard]

I find it slightly amusing how the Smash fandom might be the only fandom for a fighting game that actually demands the publisher to sell them more things as DLC.

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I don't know if that's the case, plenty of other fanbases get excited about DLC fighters.

 

[Smash Kirby]

Not entirely accurate. Golden Sun outsold Fusion, but Fusion outsold Lost Age.

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I believe The Lost Age just barely outsold Zero Mission.

 

[L Thammy]

You know, seeing the animation edits earlier, I wonder if Fire Emblem's beloved GBA animations may have in part been a way to keep up with Super Robot Wars and other strategy RPGs of the time. Both series were Japan only going into the GBA. Fire Emblem was slumping at the end of the Super Famicom era, Super Robot Wars was on the rise. Alpha in particular has gotten on a Famitsu top RPGs of all time list at one point.

Although, Fire Emblem had much better animations on the Super Famicom, and Super Robot Wars was slow to bring them onto the Gameboy Advance, so it wasn't as clear-cut at that point as Super Robot Wars simply having more extravagant animations outright. Maybe if there was competition between the two it would be better conceived as a minor animation arms race?

Let me see if I can''t throw together a comparison for what was going on in this period. Attaching Japanese sales numbers as well since I might as well:


Super Robot Wars Gaiden: The Lord of Elemental (March 1996, SNES) - 53,588 in Japan per japanltdrank

Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War (May 1996, SNES) - 429,763 in Japan per Magic Box

Super Robot Wars F (September 1997, SS) - 464,168 in Japan per Magic Box

Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (September 1999, SNES) - 158,695 in Japan per japanltdrank

Super Robot Wars Alpha (May 2000, PSX) - 714,789 in Japan per Magic Box

Super Robot Wars Alpha Gaiden (March 2001, PSX) - 535,113 in Japan per Magic Box

Super Robot Wars A (September 2001, GBA) - 249,753 in Japan per Magic Box

Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (March 2002, GBA) - 345,574 in Japan per Magic Box

Super Robot Wars Impact (March 2002, PS2) - 632,536 in Japan per Magic Box

Super Robot Wars R (August 2002, GBA) - 285,314 in Japan per Magic Box

Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones (October 2004, GBA) - 236,370 in Japan per Magic Box

3rd Super Robot Wars Alpha (July 2005, PS2) - 602,695 in Japan per Magic Box

Super Robot Wars J (September 2005, GBA) - 180,503 in Japan per Magic Box


There are waaaay more Super Robot Wars games than Fire Emblem games in this period, so I just kept down to help with the comparison. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's a little harder to dig out the attack animations for the SFC titles as you can see, but doesn't it seem like the timeline checks out at least? Fire Emblem crashed and went into a lull for a few years, during which another series came to eats its lunch with amped up attack animations on consoles, then Fire Emblem came back with amped up attack animations of its own?

Thracia's numbers might be screwed up by being Nintendo Power (the rewritable cartridge, not the magazine) exclusive for a while. Not sure if that's counted.

 

[BZL8]

I'd imagine currently that if Nintendo were to decide what JRPG to fund or produce, the game would likely either be a new Xenoblade, Pokémon, or Fire Emblem installment.

And even if Nintendo wanted to make another Golden Sun game, there's also the matter of whether Camelot and the Takahashi brothers want to make one and have the proper resources/manpower to do so.

 

[MondoMega]

I believe The Lost Age just barely outsold Zero Mission.

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By 0.19m, yes. Golden Sun outsold Fusion by even smaller margins, 0.05m, so in the end they were practically in the same ballpark on GBA.

Bringing Prime 1 into this would be unfair, so I won't.

 

[Lord Vatek]

As someone who's never played it before, does Golden Sun have like a hook that differentiates itself from contemporaries or is it fairly run of the mill from a gameplay standpoint?

 

[Weiss]

Both Golden Sun GBA games sold more than a million and outsold both Metroid GBA games.

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Yeah and the reason it's super easy to make a Metroid fan cry tears of blood in rage is that the series' future has kind of been perpetually up in the air for an entire decade.

Metroid persists because there are two separate directors who have a vision for what they want it to be. Tanabe wants to bring back Prime in a big way and who even knows if at the end of its tumultuous development if it will make its money back. Sakamoto kinda dropped the series after Other M and then got his groove back for Samus Returns and that was four whole years ago. Even knowing there are shapers and movers who want to do things with Metroid it's like pulling teeth to ever know where it's going next.

 

[MondoMega]

As someone who's never played a it before, does Golden Sun have like a hook that differentiates itself from contemporaries or is it fairly run of the mill from a gameplay standpoint?

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It has a lot more overworld puzzles than your usual JRPG.

 

[DecoReturns]

As someone who's never played a it before, does Golden Sun have like a hook that differentiates itself from contemporaries or is it fairly run of the mill from a gameplay standpoint?

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It does not really.

there's simplistic puzzles that require you to use your powers in the over world. It turn base battles like Final Fantasy, tho it's flashy as some weapons have special abilities "let out a howl". Lots of magic spells and summons

mind reading everyone was funny.

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

I don't know if that's the case, plenty of other fanbases get excited about DLC fighters.

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Sorry, I meant more things besides DLC characters (like alt costumes and music). I definitely have seen a lot of people complaining along the years about Capcom/Koei Tecmo/Bandai Namco/etc. "nickel-diming" them with the DLC costumes. Granted, I remember most of those complaints were back in the PS3 and X360 era, but I still see some of those raised ocassionally.

 

[TheDinoman]

Metroid is at least a core EPD franchise, so even when it goes on breaks, it's still apart of "the family", like Star Fox and Pikmin.

Life is hard for Nintendo characters/series not actually made by Nintendo (that is, unless they have an entire company backing them up, like HAL and Kirby).

 

[L Thammy]

Since Golden Sun's getting discussed now, I have a question.

Will they re-record the narrator saying "Robin" if Isaac becomes playable?

 

[Lord Vatek]

It has a lot more overworld puzzles than your usual JRPG.

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Are they good (read: not obnoxious) puzzles?

 

[MondoMega]

Since Golden Sun's getting discussed now, I have a question.

Will they re-record the narrator saying "Robin" if Isaac becomes playable?

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They did it for Roy!

 

[Neoxon]

I really wish they added Saxophone Under the Moon with Terry.

Also, I wonder what Sakurai thinks of Iori's new design.

 

[KtotheRoc]

I really wish they added Saxophone Under the Moon with Terry.

Also, I wonder what Sakurai thinks of Iori's new design.

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"Whoever (re)designed this character is a genius!"

 

[NeonZ]

There are waaaay more Super Robot Wars games than Fire Emblem games in this period, so I just kept down to help with the comparison. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's a little harder to dig out the attack animations for the SFC titles as you can see, but doesn't it seem like the timeline checks out at least? Fire Emblem crashed and went into a lull for a few years, during which another series came to eats its lunch with amped up attack animations on consoles, then Fire Emblem came back with amped up attack animations of its own?

Thracia's numbers might be screwed up by being Nintendo Power (the rewritable cartridge, not the magazine) exclusive for a while. Not sure if that's counted.

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The GBA SRW games still used static sprites for most attacks though (although with cut-ins and different sprites for the bigger attacks). The first fully animated GBA SRW game was J.

Thracia was just an odd game in many ways. Very complex map designs, many new mechanics that made the game harder and it was a very late SNES game - by this point the N64 was already on its late years. This game came out less than one year before Majora's Mask. And then there's the launch being split into the writable cartridge, with standard ones following later.

I'd guess the GBA animations were mostly due to the director or art director of those games, considering how Path of Radiance's animations were closer to the SNES ones rather than continuing the GBA style.

As someone who's never played it before, does Golden Sun have like a hook that differentiates itself from contemporaries or is it fairly run of the mill from a gameplay standpoint?

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Aside from the overworld puzzles, the battle graphics looked really flashy for the GBA. I think that was really the point that made it stand out and why a revival seems kind of doomed since it probably wouldn't have the same effect.

 

[rayngiraffe]

Has there been a successful EPD title without playable rep in smash?

Marth but he has Seliph, Eirika, and Leif alts.

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Not directed to you specifically, but the earlier talk about shifting reps into movesets even in a hypothetical reboot sounds weird - if sakurai didn't do it for Minmin then i highly doubt he'll do it here either.

 

[L Thammy]

They did it for Roy!

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That's different though. If you play as Roy, then given enough time, you'll probably eventually at least try out Roy. But there are tons of people who as Robin who will also play Isaac but will never have a reason to play Robin, and there also tons of people who play as Robin who will also play Reflet but will never have a reason to play as Robin.

 

[TheDinoman]

Has there been a successful EPD title without playable rep in smash?

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Rhythm Heaven, Ring Fit Adventure

Also other stuff like Nintendogs, Brain Age, etc

 

[Apopheniac]

I played the DS one and thought it was fine, though it's obvious that they ran out of time/money toward the end

 

[MondoMega]

Has there been a successful EPD title without playable rep in smash?

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Sure, but games like Nintendogs, Brain Age and Tomodachi Life were represented with Assist Trophies and Stages.

Rhythm Heaven is the main one with no major representation in Smash; plus Ring Fit I guess, but that's only a matter of time.

 

[Ryce]

Rhythm Heaven and Ring Fit Adventure are the big ones, but there are several other in-house million sellers that aren't exactly suitable playable fighter material, like Excitebike, Pilotwings, Wave Race, 1080° Snowboarding, Nintendogs, and Brain Age.

 

[Melpomene]

Rhythm Heaven and Ring Fit Adventure are the big ones, but there are several other in-house million sellers that aren't exactly suitable playable fighter material, like Excitebike, Pilotwings, Wave Race, 1080° Snowboarding, Nintendogs, and Brain Age.

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Eh, just combine 'em all into one fighter, it'll be fine.

 

[Grapezard]

Rhythm Heaven and Ring Fit Adventure are the big ones, but there are several other in-house million sellers that aren't exactly suitable playable fighter material, like Excitebike, Pilotwings, Wave Race, 1080° Snowboarding, Nintendogs, and Brain Age.

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Yeet the puppy.

 

[Neoxon]

Has there been a successful EPD title without playable rep in smash?

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Rhythm Heaven & Ring Fit Adventure are the big ones that have Smash potential, but the latter is inevitable at this point.

 

[MondoMega]

It's a shame Nintendo can't rerelease Pilotwings 64 ever. Nobody even knows for certain where the rights for it lie now.

 

[wedl]

the coolest golden sun successor idea that will never happen is a physics heavy ARPG where you can like lift terrain and shove people into wall combos and shit. make FULL use of those psychokinetic powers!!!

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Rhythm Heaven had an enemy in Smash Run

no one can convince me that they didn't plan for a playable character in Smash4

 

[mopinks]

Pilotwings is the most "game you only played because hardly anything else was available at the time" series of all time

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Rhythm Heaven and Ring Fit Adventure are the big ones, but there are several other in-house million sellers that aren't exactly suitable playable fighter material, like Excitebike, Pilotwings, Wave Race, 1080° Snowboarding, Nintendogs, and Brain Age.

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I wish either Wave Race or 1080° had gotten a stage in either Smash 4 or Ultimate, and that the Excitebike Assist Trophy had returned.

I really miss Nintendo's "extreme sport series", although I guess it was always unlikely that they would have continued after the 00's.

It's a shame Nintendo can't rerelease Pilotwings 64 ever. Nobody even knows for certain where the rights for it lie now.

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So, it's that why that one hasn't been re-released and wasn't even referenced in the Pilotwings stage? Sad.

 

[MondoMega]

Rhythm Heaven had an enemy in Smash Run

no one can convince me that they didn't plan for a playable character in Smash4

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On the contrary; i'd like someone try and convince me that something we know for a fact is wrong!

Pilotwings is the most "game you only played because hardly anything else was available at the time" series of all time

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Every game released on the Switch in the first two years falls under that according to some people.

 

[Melpomene]

Rhythm Heaven had an enemy in Smash Run

no one can convince me that they didn't plan for a playable character in Smash4

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On that note


Where is my playable Dig Dug rep, god dammit?!
I know it's not the same thing.

 

[mopinks]

Every game released on the Switch in the first two years falls under that according to some people.

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true scholars understand that 1-2-Switch is the Switch's Pilotwings

 

[L Thammy]

It's a shame Nintendo can't rerelease Pilotwings 64 ever. Nobody even knows for certain where the rights for it lie now.

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oh fuck, was that the thing that i found behind my couch

 

[L Thammy]

the coolest golden sun successor idea that will never happen is a physics heavy ARPG where you can like lift terrain and shove people into wall combos and shit. make FULL use of those psychokinetic powers!!!

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Isn't that Crystal Bearers?

 

[Neoxon]

Rhythm Heaven had an enemy in Smash Run

no one can convince me that they didn't plan for a playable character in Smash4

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I'm pretty sure that's the general consensus.

 

[MondoMega]

oh fuck, was that the thing that i found behind my couch

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Hold the (partial) rights to Pilotwings 64 hostage until Intelligent Systems release a new Battle Clash game.

I could believe the rights got lost in between couch cushions though. The game's co-developer Paradigm Entertainment was bought by Infogrames, then were sold to THQ, then THQ imploded and Paradigm closed up shop.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

On that note


Where is my playable Dig Dug rep, god dammit?!
I know it's not the same thing.

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Pooka is an honorary Pac-Man character;

but you should be asking for a Xevious fighter though!

On the contrary; i'd like someone try and convince me that something we know for a fact is wrong!

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that's a challenge!

 

[Nayishiki]

 

[MondoMega]

Sakurai travelling to E3 on his private jet.

 

[KtotheRoc]

Sakurai is talking about the before times.

 

[L Thammy]

Wow, almost the entire west coast of the USA is one big city. That's amazing.

 

[MondoMega]

We need to talk about the lore implications of the Street Fighter world map in World of Light.

For starters, where did Tasmania go.

 

[RochHoch]

"Y'know, I should really get around to finishing World of Light one of these days. But the next DLC character will probably be out next month, so I guess I'll just wait a little longer"

This had been my mantra for like, the past two years

 

[jtmmachine]

As someone who's never played it before, does Golden Sun have like a hook that differentiates itself from contemporaries or is it fairly run of the mill from a gameplay standpoint?

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A lot of it was timing: it was a near-launch Game Boy Advance RPG that looked more gorgeous than half the stuff on console and played well. It had a decent variety of overworld puzzles where you manipulated the environment with magic and some fun dungeon concepts to complement them.

It also had good replayability for an RPG, since it was short and there was a ton of hidden goodies (including super-rare item drops from enemies) that you could use both in an endless monster-wave arena which scaled with your game progress (you could easily end up fighting the superboss several times over)... or for transferring to the sequel Lost Age. This was the only way you could access some hidden events in that game, use half the weapons in GS1, and access the secret dungeon and superboss.

Dark Dawn iterated on what Golden Sun WAS instead of what people remembered it being, with all the lengthy padding and minimal story-telling therein. Didn't look anywhere near as good either... so it bombed. I can't see a sequel standing out when we now have Xenoblade and Breath of the Wild doing much of what made those first two games distinct.

 

[Garrod Ran]

We need to talk about the lore implications of the Street Fighter world map in World of Light.

For starters, where did Tasmania go.

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bisooooooon

 

[Apopheniac]

Fat Florida