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Super Smash Bros Ultimate has 19 white male characters (6 of which are blue eyed / blonde hair), and 0 women of color
- Thread starter BigBlue
- Start date
Carmen Sandiego feels like a massive long shot, but I would add her too.
I mean I don't think that's an odd rule when you're introducing a new series into Smash to be honest. Now after that I think they can d a lot more like Urbosa but I wouldn't expect Barret to get in before Cloud.
was this the reason this user was banned? because the joke is that game and watch is black? You can't joke here anymore? holy shit.
It's a pretty overused joke and a rather mean spirited and dismissive take on an issue people take seriously.
Huh. Never knew how much I wanted this till just now.
Which version of her though? I'm partial to 90's cartoon Carmen, but Netflix Carmen has more combat feats that could translate to a move set easily.
There's never been a Carmen Sandiego game on a Nintendo console, right? That purely a PC thing?
User Banned (Permanent): Excusing Racist Trolling and Dismissing Concerns on Representation; Prior Severe Ban for Transphobia
its not mean spirited or dismissive really. this thread wants representation for representation sake. smashs crossover theme (which it is at its core, and i recommend reading sakurais direction for this in his interviews) is based on iconic video game characters. unfortunately the game industry hasn't gotten to the point yet where there are may iconic characters of color. plenty of female characters in the game (and most of them are top tier in meta...) and nintendo added dark skin tones for characters that are applicable.
this thread op is short sighted as hell and has the most click bait title.
The games have been on Gamecube, Wii, and DS.
Netflix Carmen is my favorite but I would be happy with any of them! They would probably opt for a design from a game, but build a moveset based on everything including the kitchen sink.
Nintendo has a great amount of colored characters. But the Smash roster consists of - aside from Mario and Pokemon at this point - the main characters, the main villains, and sometimes equally major characters that are close to the main character. Aside from Elma and Shantae, we don't have many of those.
EDIT: Actually forgot about Impa
We need more women though.
EDIT: Actually forgot about Impa
We need more women though.
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Are you black? Because if you're not your opinion on that joke doesn't fucking matter.
Really Carmen San Diego?? A niche game that nobody knows?
The fact that nobody suggest the ever oasis protagonist as a character when he/she is a protagonist, poc and first party tells me that people only checks names and doesnt research.
The fact that nobody suggest the ever oasis protagonist as a character when he/she is a protagonist, poc and first party tells me that people only checks names and doesnt research.
Uh huh. I'm pretty sure more people know Carmen Sandiego then Ever Oasis.
I was playing Smash when I wrote that. I scrolled over to his slot and saw a green man.
You'd have better luck getting a Codename STEAM rep lol.
You would think progressive nintendo fans would buy games that stars poc characters, or at least suggest them for their premiere figthing game.
Outside of Japan, I'm sure more people knew Carmen Sandiego than Ness back when the first Smash Bros. game came out in 1999. Being in Smash Bros. can help popularize characters so I don't think it's a problem for more niche classic characters (like Alis Landale) to be added.
People aren't going to buy a game en masse just because it has a POC.
I mean, it's true, I do. But that was only because of the game show I watched growing up. Had no idea she started out as a game.
carmen sandiego, the game series so niche that it's still spawning animated series on netflix
Do people know about Carmen San Diego because of the games or the show??
Not really sure what you're trying to do here frankly. Shame people for being more familiar in one franchise then another?
Does that matter? She started as a game character.
(note I don't think Carmen is ever getting in but it's really not a big deal.)
No, mostly annoyed at people rising issues about representation but not backing games or characters that could fix them, of course there are more character that are popular but not even a mention when they could help improve the game representation issues.
Dumping on Carmen San Diego in favor of Ever Oasis is a strange way of expressing that sentiment.
We definitely won't be seeing Mr Sandman, due to the reason for him being called Mr Sandman. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. But Urbosa and Shantae are two characters I'd like to see.
Maybe Ever Oasis should have tried being good, then people would remember it and suggest it.
Same goes for most of these characters suggested but people are understandably desperate.
Well then how you explain Carmen and Shantae, Maybe people suggest Carmen as a cartoon character.
It's complicated for me tbh, especially as a person of color.
Smash isn't making characters from zero. When a new Tekken comes out, I get excited to see what kind of representation is added via the new characters. I look forward to that. For Smash, I don't want to see some third-rate character tossed in because they're a person of color when it could've been a spot for a character I really like. I also see how that generally goes against my normal logic when it comes to fighting game rosters. but part of that fault lays on the industry for not having created a bunch of PoC MCs that are awesome and that I love, outside of the Japanese ones I dig. It's a goddamn shame and needs to change.
Sure, you can add that one chick from Arms or whatever, but also I'd rather not have a Smash slot taken up by an Arms character because I hated the game. lol. But then ask me the same diversity character for the next Street Fighter, and I'm all there. Bring on the WoC, etc.
Since Smash is pulling popular characters from gaming history, however, I approach it with a completely different mindset where I'm honestly okay with not pushing for that.
That said, I do think there are a bunch of kickass women that could be added to the roster and should be. Lemme play as Shantae!
Smash isn't making characters from zero. When a new Tekken comes out, I get excited to see what kind of representation is added via the new characters. I look forward to that. For Smash, I don't want to see some third-rate character tossed in because they're a person of color when it could've been a spot for a character I really like. I also see how that generally goes against my normal logic when it comes to fighting game rosters. but part of that fault lays on the industry for not having created a bunch of PoC MCs that are awesome and that I love, outside of the Japanese ones I dig. It's a goddamn shame and needs to change.
Sure, you can add that one chick from Arms or whatever, but also I'd rather not have a Smash slot taken up by an Arms character because I hated the game. lol. But then ask me the same diversity character for the next Street Fighter, and I'm all there. Bring on the WoC, etc.
Since Smash is pulling popular characters from gaming history, however, I approach it with a completely different mindset where I'm honestly okay with not pushing for that.
That said, I do think there are a bunch of kickass women that could be added to the roster and should be. Lemme play as Shantae!
I mean, given that ARMS was reasonably successful, it's probably gonna get a rep in Smash eventually (be it Ultimate or the next game). Might as well go for Twintelle while you're at it.
Chun-Li, Impa and Elma wouldn't be particularly strange entries at all, and would be a pretty strong argument for the next entries in their respective series in Smash. Urbosa (fairly minor character), Shantae (pretty minor series) and Twintelle (not main character in a series with no rep yet) are a bit more far fetched to me but not outside the realm of possibility.
Not that Nintendo couldn't try a bit harder with adding color to their default character options in their new series, but it really is a games industry problem, inside Japan and out. I can count the amount of women of color on videogame covers on one hand (off the top of my head anyway) and most of those franchises have next to no chance of making into Smash.
Not that Nintendo couldn't try a bit harder with adding color to their default character options in their new series, but it really is a games industry problem, inside Japan and out. I can count the amount of women of color on videogame covers on one hand (off the top of my head anyway) and most of those franchises have next to no chance of making into Smash.
I think it is important too to remember that a designer can approach representation equitably. Sure, one character might be more well-requested, but a designer can say that the other one is worth it so that we can work on the issue that leads to the lack of options in the first place. Palutena grew more popular thanks to Smash, for instance. Like, Sakurai's not just following orders from Nintendo or whatever. I mean, to some extent he is, but he has the ability to push for characters. However, Sakurai is not that interested in representation from what I can see, so why is it not a relevant topic to Smash that it's so lacking?
Smash U did a decent job and was the best improvement for representation, but it doesn't invalidate poor representation in Ultimate and the series as a whole. Inkling, Dark Samus, Isabelle, and Daisy - of which, two are Echo Fighters and one is a semi-clone that could have possibly been an Echo. Thus it made it questionable, that female character additions are both few and lower effort. Alt characters and Echo Fighters feel like how we can expect to see female characters, and we would like to see better than that.
Also Captain Syrup was my ballot pick, I just left her out so no one said "that's a stupid pick, she hasn't even been in games for a decade"
Also also, Rabbid Peach is a fairly popular character, both in and out of her game, a game that sold really really well.
Smash U did a decent job and was the best improvement for representation, but it doesn't invalidate poor representation in Ultimate and the series as a whole. Inkling, Dark Samus, Isabelle, and Daisy - of which, two are Echo Fighters and one is a semi-clone that could have possibly been an Echo. Thus it made it questionable, that female character additions are both few and lower effort. Alt characters and Echo Fighters feel like how we can expect to see female characters, and we would like to see better than that.
Also Captain Syrup was my ballot pick, I just left her out so no one said "that's a stupid pick, she hasn't even been in games for a decade"
Also also, Rabbid Peach is a fairly popular character, both in and out of her game, a game that sold really really well.
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These threads always degenerate into awkward theorycrafting and Smash wishlists almost immediately. Like with Twintelle, come on. If an ARMS character was going to get in, they'd add one of the frontliners like Spring Man or Ribbon Girl, and if they wanted to go with a popular one they'd do Ninjara or Min Min, which seem to have way higher popularity worldwide than Twintelle does.
Elma's about the only pick this side of possible since the Xeno series seems to be both on the up and up and have a great relationship with Nintendo these days, though I admit that as someone who played XC2 and not XCX I'd be pretty impatient if Rex/Pyra/Mythra doesn't get in instead.
Elma's about the only pick this side of possible since the Xeno series seems to be both on the up and up and have a great relationship with Nintendo these days, though I admit that as someone who played XC2 and not XCX I'd be pretty impatient if Rex/Pyra/Mythra doesn't get in instead.
Nintendo owns MonolithSoft, and by extension, the Xenoblade IP.
Wouldn't the better mindset to get in both the more popular character and the more diverse character?
As a K. Rool supporter, I was often told Dixie would be better because she would be another girl. Nevermind how Dixie doesn't suddenly make me want K. Rool less, my argument for this was always "then add them both."
I mean, sure, but I would rather them put their finger on the scale to help underrepresented groups be represented better.
That would depend on the characters involved for me. There's no good reason popular characters have to be excluded just because they're white/male.
I really don't get why Impa would be a strong contender. She has no consistent incarnation, most of the ones she does have don't even fight, and the single combat capable version she does have (Skyward Sword) is derivative of Sheik. Sure, Hyrule Warriors Impa is a thing, but Ultimate pretended as if that game doesn't even exist.
I wouldn't even say she's popular either, one-offs like Midna or Skull Kid would get a way bigger reaction from people. It just feels like people are grasping for straws for any recurring Zelda character they can find.
I do agree that Chun Li would be a pretty awesome pick, as would Elma, though her odds seem pretty poor unless XCX makes a comeback.
