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Yukinari

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,538
The Danger Zone
The more games that leave steam, the more i dont buy. And if i do it will be on another platform, not Epic's client.

Ive stuck with two clients my entire time PC gaming while briefly using and uninstalling origin. Very disappointed that this is where gaming is heading.

Piracy is a service problem by the way. Just thought id reiterate that.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
People were very apprehensive about Steam when it launched, especially because it wasn't even a store, and only served as a barrier of entry to Half-Life 2. And once it became a store, people were still apprehensive because nothing like it had really been done before. Valve has earned people's trust by making a number of pro-consumer decisions and changes over the past decade.

So when you've had a whole decade of history to learn from, and you can't even bother to emulate the most basic features your biggest competitor provides its customers, where's my incentive as a customer to support it?
This.

Also another dimension from this is that this store is being launched by a company a decade ago that called PC players pirates, and fucked off to consoles. This hardly engenders any sense of trust for the long term viability of their service.
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,524
I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?
Because he's one of those devs on steam and none of these games are games that'd be "lost". They should be the indie leaders not followers
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?

You really think the new game from the developer of Bastion, Transistor and Pyre, and the sequel to Super Meat Boy, wouldn't do well on Steam?
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?
I'd love to see EPIC support a developer who hasn't been successful on Steam (again, I do appreciate EPIC for supporting the indie game scene), but they cherry picked games from developers that have done super well and performed excellently on Steam already.
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,054
I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?

I'm more disappointed in the, "we love our fellow indie devs, but we deserve to be on a curated service where they aren't," attitude, personally.
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
You really think the new game from the developer of Bastion, Transistor and Pyre, and the sequel to Super Meat Boy, wouldn't do well on Steam?

Doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the developers think. Do you think they anticipated people not wanting to purchase their game on Epic's store and actively hoping their games would fail so that they would be forced to release on Steam? I think they've thought about it... and they have their reasons.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the developers think. Do you think they anticipated people not wanting to purchase their game on Epic's store and actively hoping their games would fail so that they would be forced to release on Steam? I think they've thought about it... and they have their reasons.
There are some hastily written damage control answers they've given, many of which make no sense whatsoever.
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
I'd love to see EPIC support a developer who hasn't been successful on Steam (again, I do appreciate EPIC for supporting the indie game scene), but they cherry picked games from developers that have done super well and performed excellently on Steam already.
Journey coming is a nice surprise. They could have more in the future too.

I agree though. However it makes sense that they'd choose indie devs that are successful when trying to start up their business... lol You don't have to look hard at the rational from Epic's standpoint. The developers must like the idea of getting more per sale, and whatever other incentives Epic gave them.

I could see a future where Epic actively builds Indie studios up and supports them through the entire stack from the Engine to publishing and marketing. I don't think Epic is just going to steal games away from Steam. They're just trying to build up a little exclusive library to start with imo. Things will level out a bit.. but we'll have to see how devs/pubs and consumers react to it all.
 

chubigans

Vertigo Gaming Inc.
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?
I totally get that. At the same time I don't think Team Meat really had to worry about visibility.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?
You realize that is the developer of Cook Serve Delicious you are talking to, right? He will know more than you about how well games do on Steam.

I guarantee you a previously successful indie studio like Team Meat or Supergiant would not have visibility problems on Steam. Those are the ones Epic decided to buy exclusivity from. The ones that are actually getting visibilty. Actual tiny indie developers wouldn't even make it on to Epic's store to begin with.

chubigans Can I just say it's amazing to see a developer post in here and say they aren't really happy with this either.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,668
Doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the developers think. Do you think they anticipated people not wanting to purchase their game on Epic's store and actively hoping their games would fail so that they would be forced to release on Steam? I think they've thought about it... and they have their reasons.
The Epic Store is definitely a band aid to the curation problem on Steam, but it isn't a solution. If the Epic store takes off even a curated store will get overloaded and discoverability will be a problem again. I don't know if another new curated store will be the solution. Not sure what is outside of trying to make a personalized curated store for every customer.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Except a lot of games these days aren't selling well on Steam......

Of course they can look and it's EASILY the biggest market and would be the easiest for them... however there is SOME reason why they would choose to make deals with other platforms...

If Steam was a guaranteed success for them... there would be no reason... but it's not any longer.

I brought up that I thought Steam should curate their store a bit and improve relationships with developers... do more to expose developers and make partnerships. I was told Steam shouldn't be a gatekeeper and should just be open. This is what happens when you're just open and expect people to support your platform... they leave because others offer them a sweeter deal... and in the case of games like these ones announced... less risk.



They absolutely should... or not be surprised when developers make deals with others that will. I mean, that's the business....

Would it be nice and better for us if everything was everywhere and everyone was successful? Of course... but that's not how business works.
you should probably actually look at the list of games and devs picked by Epic so far. Every single one of them very well known and had no issues being big successes on Steam. The games actually having issues are not going to get on the Epic store to begin with because of crappy curation.

I think a lot of games just don't do well enough on Steam any more that they are willing to chance it and get whatever Epic is giving them as well. Why take this personally?
Again, not a single one of the currently picked ones applies to that argument at all.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,234
How's the Epic launcher from a usability standpoint? I'm curious.

In my experience downloading updates for UE4 and Fortnite? Kind of terrible.

It's an absolute resource hog that monopolizes my PC for half an hour+ to download a few gigabytes, a combination of bad servers for the download, and something mighty inefficient in how it installs. Discord and Chrome hitching and freezing when it's downloading anything, so I'd imagine playing a game with it downloading in the background is out of the question.

The only time I've ever had performance issues I can undeniably trace back to Steam was when it was unpacking a Preload - And that was on my old ass Bulldozer PC - My current PC which gets monopolized by the EGL downloader hasn't had such an issue.

And for that reason, I'm OUT on any EGL exclusives beyond Fortnite. It's a pain enough using it to download Fortnite and the UE4 SDK.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
Doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the developers think. Do you think they anticipated people not wanting to purchase their game on Epic's store and actively hoping their games would fail so that they would be forced to release on Steam? I think they've thought about it... and they have their reasons.

And their reasons are that Epic is simply paying them a lot of money. If their intention was to maximise game sales by selling their game to as wide an audience as possible, the games would be on the Epic Store , Steam, Origin and every other store.
 

Wrellie

Member
Oct 29, 2017
696
I have no problem opening Battle.net to play Blizzard games, and I'll have no problem opening Epic Store to play Super Meat Boy Forever. Developers get more money? Sounds good to me.
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
The Epic Store is definitely a band aid to the curation problem on Steam, but it isn't a solution. If the Epic store takes off even a curated store will get overloaded and discoverability will be a problem again. I don't know if another new curated store will be the solution. Not sure what it is.
I actually had an idea about Steam and maybe what they could do with the whole curation and discoverability problem. I was going to make a thread about it in the future with a really drawn out and detailed idea of what I thought they maybe could do. Chances are that I'm not thinking things through enough or other people might find a bunch of holes in my idea.. but well, here's the short version:

I think Steam should give us the ability to make our own store. There could be the Steam store as we all know and love it.. and "My Store" which is completely curated by us. Essentially, on all the store pages, there's the ability to click once to add the publisher/developer to "your store." After adding them to your store, they, along with all the games they've released and upcoming releases, are only found on "your store" from then on. After adding the pubs/devs that I want on my store, the main store actually becomes easier to parse as a result. When I browse the main store, I'm actively looking for games that I might not know about.. from devs/pubs that I haven't added. When I'm looking at "My Store" I know I'm looking for games and new content from devs and pubs that I already like.

Thus both "tabs" become easier to parse and find new content from more developers. Essentially I could keep adding pubs/devs until all that's really left of the "main store" is the titles which I'm not interested in. And even on the chance that I decide to look through it for new stuff and hidden gems... there's less games mixed in, so those games will be more visible.. especially the good ones. That works for "My store" as well, from devs and pubs I like. It's easier to see when those devs release new stuff.

And the beauty of it is that if I don't want to add anything to "My Store" the main store just acts as it always has. This way the people that complain about too much junk, can actually do something about it. And everyone can happily continue to release games on a singular store.

Another thing is that Valve is completely falling short of using screen real-estate effectively. There's so much more that could be presented on the sides of the store column.. Devs probably see that and are thinking.. "why the hell can't we be on the front page instead of 3 pages in if there's all that room on the sides" lmao.

Anyway, that was just my idea.. there's probably some reason that it's bad, but in my mind anyway I think it would work wonderfully for me.
 
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tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
I actually had an idea about Steam and maybe what they could do with the whole curation and discoverability problem. I was going to make a thread about it in the future with a really drawn out and detailed idea of what I thought they maybe could do. Chances are that I'm not thinking things through enough or other people might find a bunch of holes in my idea.. but well, here's the short version:

I think Steam should give us the ability to make our own store. There could be the Steam store as we all know and love it.. and "My Store" which is completely curated by us. Essentially, on all the store pages, there's the ability to click once to add the publisher/developer to "your store." After adding them to your store, they, along with all the games they've released and upcoming releases, are only found on "your store" from them on. After adding the pubs/devs that I want on my store, the main store actually becomes easier to parse as a result. When I browse the main store, I'm actively looking for games that I might not know about.. from devs/pubs that I haven't added. When I'm looking at "My Store" I know I'm looking for games and new content from devs and pubs that I already like.

Thus both "tabs" become easier to parse and find new content from more developers. Essentially I could keep adding pubs/devs until all that's really left of the "main store" is the titles which I'm not interested in. And even on the chance that I decide to look through it for new stuff and hidden gems... there's less games mixed in, so those games will be more visible.. especially the good ones. That works for "My store" as well, from devs and pubs I like. It's easier to see when those devs release new stuff.

And the beauty of it is that if I don't want to add anything to "My Store" the main store just acts as it always has. This way the people that complain about too much junk, can actually do something about it. And everyone can happily continue to release games on a singular store.

Another thing is that Valve is completely falling short of using screen real-estate effectively. There's so much more that could be presented on the sides of the store column.. Devs probably see that and are thinking.. "why the hell can't we be on the front page instead of 3 pages in if there's all that room on the sides" lmao.

Anyway, that was just my idea.. there's probably some reason that it's bad, but in my mind anyway I think it would work wonderfully for me.
You can already do most of that or similar things. You can filter publishers and developers
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
You can already do most of that or similar things.

I can easily add devs/pubs into a singular store tab which only shows me their games and any game they release in the future, while at the same time removing those queries completely from the main store pages?

Filtering pubs and devs isn't quite the same as what I'm saying. I guess it would be more of a permanent filter... in which on one side you always have the games from those pubs/devs that you want... and they are gone from the other side.. making finding new content easier from pubs and devs that I might not know of.

It's not about steam not having the tools... it's about people being too lazy to go many pages into the store and using them. I think my method would make it a bit easier for those people to easily know which "side" of the store they are on.
 
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tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
I can easily add devs/pubs into a singular store tab which only shows me their games and any game they release in the future, while at the same time removing those queries completely from the main store pages?
It isn't quite like that, but you can filter out publishers and developers you don't want to see.
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
I understand the frustration, but I also don't ever recall this level of uproar over the thousands and thousands of PC games released over the past decade+ that require Steam to play.

Maybe because the devs/pubs decided to only release them there...of course this was changed over the time - you can buy same games on GOG for an example.

Ubisoft for an example allows you to buy their games on Steam and use their launcher (which is fine imo).



The situation now is completely different.
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
It isn't quite like that, but you can filter out publishers and developers you don't want to see.
I added on to my response above yours.

In the end.. sometimes on stores the size of Steam, it's easier to add the things you like, instead of removing all the things you don't like. Which is kind of what I'm proposing.
 

Carlius

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Lmao. The funniest shit is how some ppl here think epic client will actually benefit pc gaming and the market. Its very sad reading some comments here defending this moneyhatting practice and calling it competition.

I will not even consider buying on epic client but now with the regional pricing fiasco, epic client is being uninstalled as i write this. Absolute and utter trash.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
That Fortnite money is being put to good use!

Epic are making some serious power moves here and Valve are going to need to take them seriously. Expect more moves from them in the vein of the new revenue split and with their own exclusive deals.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
Consumer isn't helped by games being exclusive to a single storefront. We need competition, not various storefronts all holding on to specific titles. It is the antisethesis of what we needed to combat the Steam dominance.

I feel like this is the end result of Steam being so oversaturated with games because of just how many are in the service now. Even getting visibility on the store is incredibly difficult now, so Devs are tempted to go with the safer offer of money upfront. Makes sense to me, and since people don't want steam to be a curated storefront, I'm not sure I would have done any different if I was a developer.

Obviously the risk to a sequel to a game like super meat boy would be minimal, but the big games at always going to be the first priority to get on a new service if you want it to ever take off, rather than some promising looking but unheard of indie game from unknown studios. It's whether they get in later or not that is the important question.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
4,708
Can someone explain to me why people are upset about stuff going the the epic store instead of steam? Genuine question, i'm not a pc gamer but i dont see the issue in just installing another store on your computer?
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
I feel like this is the end result of Steam being so oversaturated with games because of just how many are in the service now. Even getting visibility on the store is incredibly difficult now, so Devs are tempted to go with the safer offer of money upfront. Makes sense to me, and since people don't want steam to be a curated storefront, I'm not sure I would have done any different if I was a developer.

These are developers/publishers who would've had zero problems getting visibility on Steam. If you wouldn't have gotten visibility on Steam, you wouldn't have be chosen by Epic.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
These are developers/publishers who would've had zero problems getting visibility on Steam. If you wouldn't have gotten visibility on Steam, you wouldn't have be chosen by Epic.

Which is why I added an edit. But there's no point starting your store with random indies first over sequels to established games, because if you do that, your storefront will never take off in the first place.
In a curated service, at least to start with, big games have to take priority over unknown indies that look promising, because you need to bring people to the storefront and you don't have a infinite amount of time to do that if you want it to be a real success.

Whether they allow smaller indies in by curation later is the interesting question.
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
So when do we update the rules to ban people for "launcher begging"?

It has been so, so disappointing to see some of the devs I respect embracing Epic's store like this.

Developers have bills to pay and families to support. If Epic came knocking on my door offering a huge wad of cash and the opportunity to be featured next to the most popular game in the world, I'd say yes in a heartbeat.
 

Popetita

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,957
TX|PR
Good for the devs. I'll always be on their side on these types of things.

Having to take the 3-5 mon to install and setup the launcher is not that big of an issue.
 

Paul

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,603
Can someone explain to me why people are upset about stuff going the the epic store instead of steam? Genuine question, i'm not a pc gamer but i dont see the issue in just installing another store on your computer?
Most PC gamers with functional brain hate artificial exclusivity by default, but there is also the fact that Epic store offers no features that Steam does, no benefits to customer.
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
Can someone explain to me why people are upset about stuff going the the epic store instead of steam? Genuine question, i'm not a pc gamer but i dont see the issue in just installing another store on your computer?

People are so used to Steam being the default PC gaming client that double clicking another icon to launch a game is unfathomable to them.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,478
Can someone explain to me why people are upset about stuff going the the epic store instead of steam? Genuine question, i'm not a pc gamer but i dont see the issue in just installing another store on your computer?
Mostly due to coming late and having allowed steam to become the all around service for PC gaming. 15 years of games under one launcher, cloud saves, peripheral support, achievements, friends, etc.

But it is because of the idea of exclusives

People didn't mind GoG because they didn't have new exclusive even thought they could have done it with CDPR games, and people went up in arms against Origin, but it was only EA's games. Epic's Store goes one step beyond because it is not just Epic's games.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
So when do we update the rules to ban people for "launcher begging"?



Developers have bills to pay and families to support. If Epic came knocking on my door offering a huge wad of cash and the opportunity to be featured next to the most popular game in the world, I'd say yes in a heartbeat.
you might wanna look at the actual Devs and games Epic picked so far. Not a single one of them has really been struggling and they have been hugely successful in the past. Epic doesn't seem very interested in the little guy actually struggling to make ends meet so far.
People are so used to Steam being the default PC gaming client that double clicking another icon to launch a game is unfathomable to them.
I already have this client installed but I won't be buying games on it because it's issues are far more deep than "it's just another launcher"
 

Cecil

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,445
Can someone explain to me why people are upset about stuff going the the epic store instead of steam? Genuine question, i'm not a pc gamer but i dont see the issue in just installing another store on your computer?

It's been explained over and over, in multiple threads. I can explain my reasons once again, but you really owe it to others when you jump into a discussion, to read up about it instead of letting other people do the work for you. Especially when you post with a relatively condemning tone like you do now.

My reasons:
*I don't like being forced to use another client, that comes with another set of credentials and server depencies. This is something I will back from, it it turns out that the games I want there are being sold DRM free, and that I can play and install the game freely without the client, like with GOG.
*I don't like being forced to use another client, that comes with less features, then what I would have had if I could have bought the game on Steam.
*I don't like being forced to turn to the Epic Store, that will not have user reviews and forums, which is something I use for all games on Steam that I'm unsure of.
*It's not such a strange thought that you only want to juggle a certain amount of clients. I frequently use Steam, GOG and the Humble Store, but games I have on Origin and uPlay are games I tend to forget I have. The more down the picking list a certain client is for me, the less likely I am to actually play the game, once the novelty of it as a new purchase has worn off.
 

Deleted member 16849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,167
Can't wait for all these devs complaining the PC version didn't sell well.

Don't Indie developers struggle on Steam because it's so oversaturated? At least on the Epic store they will get more exposure. Fortnite reached a peak of 8.3 million concurrent players last month which is more than every Steam game combined (not sure how many are on PC) so a good chuck of these players will get exposed to Super Meat Boy Forever on the Epic store more than Steam would.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
Hopefully it comes with ban for launcher warring too.

Like this right there:
Fanboying means being so in love with a brand that you'll argue and defend a product. Do you really think that's what's happening here? Do you really think it's just a load of Epic launcher fans?

No it's people against fanboys of any kind. Now a new breed of launcher fanboys has emerged, it's just another thing to be embarrassed about being a gamer over.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Don't Indie developers struggle on Steam because it's so oversaturated? At least on the Epic store they will get more exposure. Fortnite reached a peak of 8.3 million concurrent players last month which is more than every Steam game combined (not sure how many are on PC) so a good chuck of these players will get exposed to Super Meat Boy Forever on the Epic store more than Steam would.

Just like they got exposed to Paragon and Unreal Tournament ? 🤔
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,708
It's been explained over and over, in multiple threads. I can explain my reasons once again, but you really owe it to others when you jump into a discussion, to read up about it instead of letting other people do the work for you. Especially when you post with a relatively condemning tone like you do now.

My reasons:
*I don't like being forced to use another client, that comes with another set of credentials and server depencies. This is something I will back from, it it turns out that the games I want there are being sold DRM free, and that I can play and install the game freely without the client, like with GOG.
*I don't like being forced to use another client, that comes with less features, then what I would have had if I could have bought the game on Steam.
*I don't like being forced to turn to the Epic Store, that will not have user reviews and forums, which is something I use for all games on Steam that I'm unsure of.
*It's not such a strange thought that you only want to juggle a certain amount of clients. I frequently use Steam, GOG and the Humble Store, but games I have on Origin and uPlay are games I tend to forget I have. The more down the picking list a certain client is for me, the less likely I am to actually play the game, once the novelty of it as a new purchase has worn off.
I didnt mean to be condemning. I apologize if it seems that way. Thanks for the answers everyone.