Super Mario Maker 2 announced for Nintendo Switch; coming June 2019

[Jeeves]

I mean, navigating the world and using items in various places was a set of mechanics unto its own. Depending on how you felt like exploring the maps in SMW and SMB3, you could uncover bonus items or uncover secrets that would lead you to entirely new levels.

It's not just a level select in a frilly dress, and it's a big part of what people remember about SMB3, SMW and even NSMBU.

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Thanks for presenting some actual reasons. This is why I said I probably don't share as much nostalgia for these map screens, despite growing up with those games. The act of getting a mallet to break a boulder in your path or visiting toad houses and that sort of thing just doesn't do a lot for me in the context of Mario Maker.

The map is the content. The map is the entire point of the map. My analogy is entirely relevant because to people who play strictly versus (that would be you in this analogy), Arcade mode is pointless (which is fine), yet nobody would use "how does Arcade improve versus?" as an argument against Arcade.

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The map is the content? I doubt you would enjoy playing a map that contains no levels. I'm asking what people think the map would contribute to the game, because in my opinion the answer is "not much". And my analogy is much more apt, because it compares another example the same thing we're talking about.

I regret to inform you nobody put you in charge to let you decide what "the point of the game" is for everyone else.

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So what, besides what I said, would you like the point of the game to be...?

That's because there is no argument other than "we want it for its own sake". What argument would you make for the existence of Mario Maker as a whole, or any other game?

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See, all I ever asked is why you want it. If your answer is "because I want it", well...okay. Was hoping to find out why, but you don't have to convince me if you don't want to. I'm not coming after anyone here.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Keep in mind being able to build a world map would allow people to theme specific levels in a chain. if we can do things like Grass World, Ice World, Lava World, etc and chain them together cohesively. The level creation tools in the original Super Mario Maker was solid, and now in the sequel their even more expanded.

Being able to have a world to tie a series of 4 to 5 levels together in a set, and being able to tie multiple worlds into a group would effectively allow folks to make their own mini-versions of a full Mario Game.

Also this can tie into the sharing mechanic in the sense of instead of being able to upload a single level. We could instead upload an entire world or set of worlds.

And before someone makes the excuse saying it would take too much space. Keep in mind levels in SMM simply use existing assets and the level creation itself is merely script of coordinates that tells you which block is placed where, what enemy goes where, conditions for stage hazards, starting point, and goal.

 

[Weltall Zero]

See, all I ever asked is why you want it. If your answer is "because I want it", well...okay. Was hoping to find out why, but you don't have to convince me if you don't want to. I'm not coming after anyone here.

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I don't know what you expect me to tell you. It's fun to explore and move around maps. It's fun to unlock paths and see where they lead you. If you don't find these things fun, I don't see how or why I should "convince" you. More puzzlingly, I don't know why you would seek understanding of why these things are fun now, after like three decades of maps in Mario games. You didn't question them back in Mario 3? In addition to what maps bring to the player, it's always fun as a creator to make your own maps.

All of this is, of course, completely tangential to my point, which is that asking "what do maps add to the levels?" is a loaded question with absolutely no bearing on if they should be in the game.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Woah folks are anti-world map...

 

[jack_package_200]

Please let them allow custom campaigns/chained together levels meant to be played sequentially

 

[OmegaDL50]

See that's the great thing about "options" They are great for people to use them if they want, and also easily ignored if they do not.

Wether a world map function is implemented in the new game or not. This won't take away from folks being to simply create the levels they want and upload and share them on an individual basis.

What would that take away from folks like myself who would want to make a series of levels following a similar theme and tie them all together on map creating Stage 1, Stage 2, Mid-Boss Castle / Ghost House, Stage 3, Stage 4, Boss Castle, something to that effect.

Before y'all forget it is called Super Mario Maker.

Creating our own levels is great, but they could expand it and allow us to make our own full fledged Mario games within the context of the creation tools. This includes the levels and worlds to tie it all together.

 

[JershJopstin]

I've never understood why people ask for world map creation. Will that allow us to make better levels?

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Yes.

Having designed sequences of levels gives the creator more space to introduce and ramp up the complexity of mechanics, making it easier to make challenging levels that don't feel unfair to the player.

Additionally:

The only tangible benefit I can remotely see coming from world maps is alternate exits, and technically that could be done without world maps.

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World maps give secret exits an actual purpose. If both exits just give you a clear and you move on to the next level, does it matter which one you take? No. And if it doesn't matter, why include them at all? SMW often rewards the player for finding secrets; either with something to help out in other levels (switch palaces and the Top Secret Area), a faster route, or more challenging levels for player who want that (which reward is gained is often related to how difficult the secret exit is to find). SMW's map also suggests the existence of secret exits by its design, without always explicitly telling the player (or never telling them, if the they don't figure out what the red stage icons mean). Letting players figure out where to look for hidden routes without straight up telling them or making it too cryptic is crucial to making them fun.

There are also other little things you can do, like tie a hidden exit to a power-up gained in another level.

 

[hibikase]

Woah folks are anti-world map...

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Just this one guy, really...

 

[foxuzamaki]

RagnarokX's Super Duper Super Mario Maker 2 Analysis:

Themes:
Ground:
SMW

3DW

Underground:
SMW

3DW

Desert:
SMB3

3DW

Underwater:
3DW

Ice:
NSMBU

Jungle:
SMW

NSMBU

3DW

Airship:
SMB

SMB3

3DW

Ghost House:
SMW

Of particular interest: the NSMBU backgrounds are new. In NSMBU all of the ice levels were night-time:

However in Mario Maker it looks like this:

The trees are the only thing from NSMBU.

The NSMBU Jungle one is really weird. The starry background is completely new.

Based on these two, ESPECIALLY the NSMBU Jungle part, I'm thinking that each theme has multiple backgrounds you can choose.

This is a different background from the one used in SMM1's SMW ghost houses:

SMM1:

Possibly another example of custom backgrounds

Furthermore, you can add water to levels. This has only been shown in the Jungle theme:

...however I imagine you'll be able to add water to any theme.

Of particular note is that there is no poison swamp water in these examples. Does this mean that stuff like water, poison, and lava can all be toggled?

Okay, so new stuff:

I think the car will replace yoshi in 3DW.
I wonder if Mario can go through red pipes and if they shoot him out like a cannon.

It appears that you won't be able to switch as freely between the styles as you could in the first game. At least perhaps not with 3D World specifically...

SMW style has 4 wheels worth of enemies (the 4 dots under the enemies tab indicates how many wheels)

But 3DW only has 3 wheels worth of enemies:

People were wondering what is under the key tab, but you can see one if its wheels on the left here:

The yellow key wheel contains things like tracks, coveyor belts, 1 way walls, fire bars, snake blocks, and on/off switches. It likely has more than one wheel.

When placing an object, a menu will pop up showing you all of the options that object has. This shows that piranha plant can be normal, fire, big, winged, and/or parachute. This likely is an option to shaking or giving the objects items to transform them.

The left sidebar:

From top to bottom:

• style
• theme (underwater)
  • next to that is a greyed-out icon that looks like a boat. I think this is used to add water to levels.
• camera
  • next to that is a feather (more on that later)
• time limit
• goal: it appears you can customize an objective. In this example they've made the goal collecting 100 coins.
• red and green character button: character or multiplayer toggle?
• ghost trail

You can make custom autoscrollers that move in multiple directions. Here we see that feather icon has lit up and is the custom scroll button. Also, the camera button turned into a bird.
I believe that you can change the scroll speed at each point by clicking the > and >>. In this example it moves at > speed until it reaches bird 2 and then speeds up.

Regarding vertical levels, I think this is the case, but we can't say for certain from this footage. The screen never scrolls far enough vertically in any of the scenes to say for sure that they go higher than 2 screens like in the first game.

Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Toadette appear to be playable. I wonder if they have different attributes. I think that's what the red/green person toggle is for.

The boat from Mario Paint:

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Thanks rag, a ton of new themes for this one, exciting ans should help alot with variety

 

[Jeeves]

Some of you guys are acting pretty defensive...I'm just trying to find out for myself if I overlooked anything that would make me interested in world maps. And I'm warning people that if the feature existed, they should expect very few people to play through their whole world. I think it would be a very niche feature in practice.

Yes.

Having designed sequences of levels gives the creator more space to introduce and ramp up the complexity of mechanics, making it easier to make challenging levels that don't feel unfair to the player.

Additionally:
World maps give secret exits an actual purpose. If both exits just give you a clear and you move on to the next level, does it matter which one you take? No. And if it doesn't matter, why include them at all? SMW often rewards the player for finding secrets; either with something to help out in other levels (switch palaces and the Top Secret Area), a faster route, or more challenging levels for player who want that (which reward is gained is often related to how difficult the secret exit is to find). SMW's map also suggests the existence of secret exits by its design, without always explicitly telling the player (or never telling them, if the they don't figure out what the red stage icons mean). Letting players figure out where to look for hidden routes without straight up telling them or making it too cryptic is crucial to making them fun.

There are also other little things you can do, like tie a hidden exit to a power-up gained in another level.

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Thank you, this is the sort of post I was hoping to see.

For your first point, that would be the most compelling argument for me personally, though what takes away from it is the fact that you can achieve the same effect by naming the levels in sequence or posting them on a forum with instructions that they're intended as a set. And sure, it's always cooler when there's an officially sanctioned way to do stuff, but for me it's not that big a deal in this case.

For your second point, bragging rights would be the non-map reason for alternate exits. There were already people including things like optional pink coins in their levels for no reason other than to challenge players to finish the level with the coins in hand for bragging rights.

In an official Mario game, discovering hidden levels on the world map is neat. For Mario Maker...I have no guarantee that that hidden level is going to be any good, so I'd rather just be able to select it from a menu and be able to play it without prerequisites.

Anyway, this helps me understand why others want to create world maps, even if it doesn't change my mind on it. Thanks again.

 

[JershJopstin]

Some of you guys are acting pretty defensive...I'm just trying to find out for myself if I overlooked anything that would make me interested in world maps. And I'm warning people that if the feature existed, they should expect very few people to play through their whole world. I think it would be a very niche feature in practice.


Thank you, this is the sort of post I was hoping to see.

For your first point, that would be the most compelling argument for me personally, though what takes away from it is the fact that you can achieve the same effect by naming the levels in sequence or posting them on a forum with instructions that they're intended as a set. And sure, it's always cooler when there's an officially sanctioned way to do stuff, but for me it's not that big a deal in this case.

For your second point, bragging rights would be the non-map reason for alternate exits. There were already people including things like optional pink coins in their levels for no reason other than to challenge players to finish the level with the coins in hand for bragging rights.

In an official Mario game, discovering hidden levels on the world map is neat. For Mario Maker...I have no guarantee that that hidden level is going to be any good, so I'd rather just be able to select it from a menu and be able to play it without prerequisites.

Anyway, this helps me understand why others want to create world maps, even if it doesn't change my mind on it. Thanks again.

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Yeah, that's all fair. It's not a necessity to me by any means. I think the biggest tangible difference isn't necessarily allowing these things, but encouraging them; I think you'd see an increase in the number of competent creators trying to make those sorts of levels. Sure, you can thoroughly explore complex mechanics over multiple levels or create optional goals as-is, but there's not an abundance of creators who do. If there's an official way to link things together I think that would change.

 

[Jeeves]

Yeah, that's all fair. It's not a necessity to me by any means. I think the biggest tangible difference isn't necessarily allowing these things, but encouraging them; I think you'd see an increase in the number of competent creators trying to make those sorts of levels. Sure, you can thoroughly explore complex mechanics over multiple levels or create optional goals as-is, but there's not an abundance of creators who do. If there's an official way to link things together I think that would change.

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Oh yeah, in general I would like if the game had some way of nudging players toward better/more interesting design principles. Though I always got a laugh out of seeing some of the inane stuff 100 Mario Challenge would throw at me...but something tells me those levels won't ever be in short supply.

 

[VariantX]

Andre pretty much hasn't made a video since the Direct because he's constantly been working on the analysis, I think joining the Reggie discussion is all he's had time for haha

It's biiiiiiig

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I don't normally watch these simply because I simply just don't have the time to sit, watch, and absorb all of what a GameXplain analysis brings to the table. But I WILL make an exception for this game for this recent trailer and those to follow in the future. Adding slopes is great as it was likely the most requested featureoff the top of my head, but I wonder if Nintendo hinted at something that would be as big or bigger in the recent trailer. I definitely wouldn't have the eye to spot something that Nintendo hid in plain view.

 

[BowieZ]

Keep in mind being able to build a world map would allow people to theme specific levels in a chain. if we can do things like Grass World, Ice World, Lava World, etc and chain them together cohesively. The level creation tools in the original Super Mario Maker was solid, and now in the sequel their even more expanded.

Being able to have a world to tie a series of 4 to 5 levels together in a set, and being able to tie multiple worlds into a group would effectively allow folks to make their own mini-versions of a full Mario Game.

Click to shrink...

I'm way ahead of you my dude! :P

I'm not actually holding out particularly high hopes for any actual world map interconnectivity, but I can still upload levels that match a schema like this.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Andre finally finished the script lol. So maybe this week we'll get his video analysis.

 

[Metal B]

I don't believe, that we will get a "World Map". The big problem are the different themes, how would you connect them in one theme. We will properly get a string of levels similar to New Super Mario Bros or Super Mario 3D Land.
Overall be able to creat a string of levels would be important, since it would give Extra Lives some kind of purpose outside of two spefic mode. You should also be able to choose, if a level should be part of the 10 or 100 Mario Challenge, since maybe a level is build on a pervious level.

 

[Blergmeister]

Yeah I think the more important feature would be the ability to string levels together in a playlist, giving us a challenge to complete with lives. I can see this being pretty simple to do, with some toggles for number of levels and starting lives (bonus if power ups can carry over).

Created worlds would would be a good feature but seems like it would be a lot more resources to implement over just the playlist with it's own complexities, etc, that I dont know if the case is there for resources. I'd welcome it for sure but I think I'd prefer more styles, music, backgrounds, and level elements than this. Especially when some basic shareable playlist functionality would do the heavy lifting.

 

[Berordn]

I don't believe, that we will get a "World Map". The big problem are the different themes, how would you connect them in one theme. We will properly get a string of levels similar to New Super Mario Bros or Super Mario 3D Land.
Overall be able to creat a string of levels would be important, since it would give Extra Lives some kind of purpose outside of two spefic mode. You should also be able to choose, if a level should be part of the 10 or 100 Mario Challenge, since maybe a level is build on a pervious level.

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3D World's overworld had different themes for the world map itself, but levels very rarely adhered to it. Even Nintendo doesn't bother sticking to a theme.

 

[ResetGreyWolf]

I'm way ahead of you my dude! :P

I'm not actually holding out particularly high hopes for any actual world map interconnectivity, but I can still upload levels that match a schema like this.

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You made this? This looks awesome. I'd play your worlds :3

 

[BGBW]

Super Mario Bros Deluxe had a simple four level per world map design that they could use for pack:

 

[ika]

Not sure why you're being a dick about this but okay.

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Hmmm a dick? I really like this idea and I want it implemented in the game.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Hmmm a dick? I really like this idea and I want it implemented in the game.

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Oh my bad. Legit thought you were being sarcastic. My bad man.

 

[AmericanKirby]

Andre finally finished the script lol. So maybe this week we'll get his video analysis.

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Jesus Christ, how long is this thing?

I can't decide if Gamexplain making a feature length analysis movie out of a minute and a half trailer is a new low or a new high for them.

 

[Platy]

Jesus Christ, how long is this thing?

I can't decide if Gamexplain making a feature length analysis movie out of a minute and a half trailer is a new low or a new high for them.

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Nothing beats their breath of the wild analysis

 

[Jonneh]

Nothing beats their breath of the wild analysis

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Mario Odyssey reveal trailer wasn't too far off!

 

[OldBoyGamer]

So can you not create a sequence of levels in maker?

 

[Metal B]

So can you not create a sequence of levels in maker?

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In Super Mario Maker you can't. In Super Mario Maker 2 we don't know it yet.

 

[OldBoyGamer]

In Super Mario Maker you can't. In Super Mario Maker 2 we don't know it yet.

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ok, thanks for the clarification.

I'm not so fussed about an overworld map. But they should allow people to chain a sequence of levels together.

 

[Skittzo]

ok, thanks for the clarification.

I'm not so fussed about an overworld map. But they should allow people to chain a sequence of levels together.

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You actually can do this in Super Mario Maker 1 but you can't share that sequence of levels. You can have them strung together locally on your game so people can play them like that on your console. But yeah it would be nice if they let you actually share your sequence of levels.

 

[RepairmanJack]

You actually can do this in Super Mario Maker 1 but you can't share that sequence of levels. You can have them strung together locally on your game so people can play them like that on your console. But yeah it would be nice if they let you actually share your sequence of levels.

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I haven't used it, but I thought Warp.World did something like this. Let you make sequences of levels and share them. I think they eventually even added random seeds so you could do races of multi levels and made sure all the people had the same random queue of levels.

I think I saw streamers using it at least.

 

[CaptainMatilder]

I wonder how many different water-like elements we will have. We saw normal water and poisoned water.
There is no chance we won't see lava. But what about quicksand or cold (ice) water?

 

[Jeeves]

I would love water that flows between pipes, as seen a few times in SMB3 if I remember right.

 

[Space Hunter]

It's finally here!!! This gonna be good

 

[HockeyBird]

It's finally here!!! This gonna be good

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Only 90 minutes? Just like many modern games, Gamexplain is now skimping on the content.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Ok, I was really thinking Gamexplain was being overhyped and wasn't going to see anything new, but only 2 minutes in they've mentioned slopes in SMB1 style which I honestly don't think I'd seen mentioned yet. If so I might have just overlooked in the many analysis I've seen so far.

 

[CaptainMatilder]

Ok, I was really thinking Gamexplain was being overhyped and wasn't going to see anything new, but only 2 minutes in they've mentioned slopes in SMB1 style which I honestly don't think I'd seen mentioned yet. If so I might have just overlooked in the many analysis I've seen so far.

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Obviously slopes will be in any game style.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Obviously slopes will be in any game style.

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SMB1 was kind of a standout in SMM1 to not have features from the other styles. For it to not have slopes honestly wouldn't be all that crazy since it would also be introducing it to the game and most likely need to bring sliding to it. Even if it is obvious it hadn't been mentioned much and is kind of a big deal.

 

[Jeeves]

That video had a lot of details/possibilities I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere. My head is bursting at the seams with new ideas for levels!

One thing I disagreed with in the analysis was the theory that clear pipes might not be treated as solid objects, especially since the artwork depicts ants climbing around the outside of some clear pipes.

I also thought their take on the background banzai bill launchers was a bit strange. Since the camera doesn't rotate, it's more difficult to express depth in Mario Maker than it is in 3D World. Seems to me like the reason for the banzai bills rotating and slowing down as they reach the foreground is simply to help the player estimate how much time they have before the hitboxes of the background banzais become active.

My own nitpicks aside, very grateful for the hard work and research put into the analysis.

 

[ika]

My theory about the trolley icon with a box and a number in the bottom right of the screen is a "new tools/notifications available" button, not the "change to sub-level" as they think.

 

[CaptainMatilder]

My theory about the trolley icon with a box and a number in the bottom right of the screen is a "new tools/notifications available" button, not the "change to sub-level" as they think.

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I like that theory. A trolley icon doesnt make sense for anything else.

 

[BowieZ]

I like that theory. A trolley icon doesnt make sense for anything else.

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Can you guys explain why that would make sense?

Why is the trolley delivering a "1" box? And why would it change to a "2"?

 

[ika]

Can you guys explain why that would make sense?

Why is the trolley delivering a "1" box? And why would it change to a "2"?

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There're two new notifications/items/tools available to check out.

 

[CaptainMatilder]

I wonder if SMW gets new music for the forest theme. It reused the same soundtrack for ground, forest and mountain/choco mountain levels in the original game. But to differentiate it better, it should get a new tune imho. Maybe something similiar to the Forest of Illusion theme. Of course the main SMW theme will be embedded into it.

 

[Jraphics Horse]

Those add + remove ability icons look confusing to me, but I don't have a good idea of how to improve them.

 

[BlueManifest]

I'm really hoping this has a full blown new single player 2d Mario outside of the level sharing/making

Nintendo could give 5 large worlds and each one use the different Mario art styles, then a special 6th world with challenging levels that you could reach by finding secret exits in the other 5 worlds etc

 

[MondoMega]

Looks like we have our first "new" info since the Direct. This Japanese flier (sourced from here) shows us 8-bit Super Luigi and Builder Mario, possibly confirming the Mystery Mushroom and providing another piece of evidence hinting towards multiple playable characters (since that still isn't explicitly confirmed, even if it is obvious).

interestingly, Super Luigi is using his color palette from Super Mario Bros. Deluxe instead of the original SMB, possibly so you won't be able to confuse Fire Mario and Fire Luigi in co-op?

 

[Tophat Jones]

This looks wonderful. Endless fun.

Coming out in June is great. That's how it's done.

Good stuff.

 

[BowieZ]

GameXplain suggests (based on Amazon info) that Friday, June 14 (end of E3) might just be the launch date.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMeMHWoLdr0

 

[AuthenticM]

Super Mario Bros Deluxe had a simple four level per world map design that they could use for pack:

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Holy fuck. I had no idea! This is awesome! And yes, Mario Maker 2 should use it.

 

[IamPeacock]

Is there any chance we'll be able to make our own map to put our levels on? Would be awesome.