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Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,708
Ehh I don't think it's as bad as that. It's not like they went full off the deep end after the 25th anniversary collection. From what I've heard it wasn't all that different from this one.

The 25th anniversary collection was even less of an improvement than this one is. It was literally a ROM, like you would buy on the Virtual Console, on a disc.

The overall package was nicer (it came in a nice box with a little art book), and that's something I really miss from this release. But as far as improvements to the included games go, this has that one beat hands-down.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,184
I think "anti-consumer" is a mostly meaningless term that means whatever the person speaking wants it to mean. Getting into the weeds about the semantics of it is a fairly pointless endeavor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
Did anyone think this wasn't going to sell incredibly well? You can still criticise their business practice while accepting it works. Just like GaaS works. Just like gacha gaming works.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,708
I think "anti-consumer" is a mostly meaningless term that means whatever the person speaking wants it to mean. Getting into the weeds about the semantics of it is a fairly pointless endeavor.

Yeah, it very quickly went from describing actual deceptive business practices to, like, "this company wants money." Which, no shit. People throw it around for everything now.

(And as I always add, if your perspective is that under capitalism any attempt by a corporation to extract profit is in a sense anti-consumer, that's a fair perspective, but that also renders "anti-consumer" so broad as to be meaningless.)
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,082
Seattle
they're preying on the FOMO that people clearly have as demonstrated.
I think some of ya'll are overthinking this. There's no mad dash to buy this cause of the deadline, there's a rush to buy them cause they're great games and people want to replay them. Most gamers probably don't even know about the limited availability stuff.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,424
Australia
I think "anti-consumer" is a mostly meaningless term that means whatever the person speaking wants it to mean. Getting into the weeds about the semantics of it is a fairly pointless endeavor.

It's one of those terms where you may not be able to strictly define it, but you know it when you see it.

I wouldn't call this package "anti-consumer" so much as "just a kinda crappy deal intended to exploit the fandom of the Nintendo hardcore".
 

Tomo815

Banned
Jul 19, 2019
1,534
Did anyone think this wasn't going to sell incredibly well? You can still criticise their business practice while accepting it works. Just like GaaS works. Just like gacha gaming works.

I think this is a good point and I am going to respond to it seriously. If you were just shitposting then feel free to ignore me.

Based on what I have read and seen discussed (I am not an expert by any measure) there are clear signs of companies exploiting the psychology of addiction in order to squeeze as much money as they can from gatcha/lootboxes. There is a wealth of information out there as to why lootboxes and RNG are akin to gambling, and harmuful for some players.

Now I dont see how Nintendo offering a product, a clearly labelled one, a collection of old games that is pretty much faithful to how those games were when they launched, how is this in the same ballpark as gatcha.
 

Manwell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
392
USA
Nintendo first party holds their value incredibly well so I don't know why 60$ is so egregious. 20 is about the price you would pay for a used cart of 64 in good condition while 20 for sunshine and galaxy 1 is actually lower than what you see for many new/used copies of the game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
I think this is a good point and I am going to respond to it seriously. If you were just shitposting then feel free to ignore me.

Based on what I have read and seen discussed (I am not an expert by any measure) there are clear signs of companies exploiting the psychology of addiction in order to squeeze as much money as they can from gatcha/lootboxes. There is a wealth of information out there as to why lootboxes and RNG are akin to gambling, and harmuful for some players.

Now I dont see how Nintendo offering a product, a clearly labelled one, a collection of old games that is pretty much faithful to how those games were when they launched, how is this in the same ballpark as gatcha.
I'm not saying it's in the same ballpark. I was just using those as examples as things that people routinely criticise on here, but in the real world they bring in $$$$. It's because people on the earlier pages were talking about an "era bubble" as if anyone was suggesting this collection was going to sell badly.

I do, however, think having a limited release is pretty shitty and I think they could have put more effort into the collection especially when you compare it to the work done on Crash, Spyro or Tony Hawk's.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
The timed release is absolutely shitty but I absolutely do not want these to be remakes. Slightly prettier versions of the original games are exactly what I want, and that's what this is offering.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Nintendo first party holds their value incredibly well so I don't know why 60$ is so egregious. 20 is about the price you would pay for a used cart of 64 in good condition while 20 for sunshine and galaxy 1 is actually lower than what you see for many new/used copies of the game.
You could get 64 for $10 on the wii and wii u.
 

Porco Rosso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,218
Canada
I mentioned this in another thread, but other than giving Mario 64 widescreen and better camera controls, this is honestly about as far as I'd want them to go with these ports. Sunshine and Galaxy look great in widescreen and HD, and I think the games are very solid as is. Now if they threw in some cool framing, and stuff like concept art galleries and whatnot, that would be cool, but otherwise I'd prefer these games be left mostly intact.

That's exactly where I'm at with these - these don't need fixing and I'm honestly glad they're staying mostly as-is. I like them as they were.

However, I do wish Mario 64 had some QOL stuff touched up, primarily the camera. I guess it's possible, since they did clearly make a few changes (fixing up textures, making the title screen say "Press + to play") but i don't really have high hopes for that.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
It's one of those terms where you may not be able to strictly define it, but you know it when you see it.

I wouldn't call this package "anti-consumer" so much as "just a kinda crappy deal intended to exploit the fandom of the Nintendo hardcore".
Why did everyone say Capcom was anti consumer with the RE and DMC ports then? Same thing, over pricing older games.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
There's a fair share of criticism to discuss but at the end of the day. They're telling what the collection offers, they've even shown the cart, and the dumb limited release window. Plus you're not force to buy this game so it's not predatory, that's a way too far from what this actually is. And I wouldn't say anti-consumer.

more like stupid. But maybe theyll put the games as digital standalone after March. But since they ain't mentioning it, I'm gonna assume it's gone forever after March2021
 

Tomo815

Banned
Jul 19, 2019
1,534
I'm not saying it's in the same ballpark. I was just using those as examples as things that people routinely criticise on here, but in the real world they bring in $$$$.

Sure but those things are in the process of being banned in the real world because they are in fact "anti-consumer". Basically gambling.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
You could get 64 for $10 on the wii and wii u.
Now go look up the cost of a Sunshine disc.

$10 for 64, $20 for Galaxy (eShop price), and $30 for Sunshine is already a steal for Sunshine before you factor in the fact that these are playable on a modern handheld with improved visuals.

also Sunshine is the most valuable, furthering its argument as the best
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,109
I'm thrilled that these games are reaching more playable platforms in HD, but I share the same sentiment as the rest of my friends who watched this live with anticipation: disappointment. We're in a generation where less iconic mascot platformers got the red carpet treatment for both a new and old audience. We can't even get one of the greatest games of all time in official HD aspect ratio. I'll still enjoy them like I did 20 years ago, I just expected more from Nintendo.
Except this isn't really lazy? There was no need to remake these games.
Mario 64 isn't even in widescreen. I shouldn't be categorizing a port of Mario 64 from Nintendo in the same class as Sega's careless 4:3 HD port of Sonic Adventure. The game deserves better, and it shouldn't be left in the hands of fan to provide that experience.
 

Deleted member 11626

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,199
Really curious on where the line between "low effort port" and "lazy devs" is to some of you folks. Fact is that this is a compilation of three of the best platformers ever made, and for $20 a pop are worth the price of entry. Limited or not.

So it looks like Nintendo's strategy for selling lots of games worked?

How evil of them. Has anybody here already branded them "anti-consumer" yet?
They have competitors locking third party content and dlc to one platform, with heavy rumors surrounding entire third party titles and moneyhatting...but we're supposed to be pointing fingers at the company releasing a legacy collection of their own games for a limited six month run, in an industry where most titles have their legs cut out from under them in three.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Still really excited for this.

The idea that mainstream gamers (and lapsed gamers who grew up with these) weren't going to be excited for this is classic Era bubble nonsense. It made headline news on CNN!
 

bixente

Member
Jan 27, 2019
2,259
Rewarding lazy port is not gonna lead to better ports in the future.

Imagine the IP and code owners being demolished by some modders' effort.

The 3D World port is looking to be something special though... Bowser's Fury seems like it'll be really substantial considering the increase in file size.
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,352
Omni
Well even though I could always emulate these games and played/beaten them multiple times on their original systems - I still bit and bought this.


On the plus side, I'll be able to play them in portable fashion. Also I can add these 3 games to my "Nintendo completed games list" lol.


Good thing I had some gift card money and all

QZ2J0bE.jpg



Now I just need to get a Switch.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
I think some of ya'll are overthinking this. There's no mad dash to buy this cause of the deadline, there's a rush to buy them cause they're great games and people want to replay them. Most gamers probably don't even know about the limited availability stuff.

And because people can also play Super Mario 64, Sunshine & Galaxy on the go.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Really curious on where the line between "low effort port" and "lazy devs" is to some of you folks. Fact is that this is a compilation of three of the best platformers ever made, and for $20 a pop are worth the price of entry. Limited or not.


They have competitors locking third party content and dlc to one platform, with heavy rumors surrounding entire third party titles and moneyhatting...but we're supposed to be pointing fingers at the company releasing a legacy collection of their own games for a limited six month run, in an industry where most titles have their legs cut out from under them in three.
When Disney has done it, they always have been called out for it, so...
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,592
I wonder why people act like Crash is the industry standard rather than just calling that a great deal. Sony ported Last of Us to PS4 and charged 50 dollars for it. That's the same generation as Mario Galaxy. Most companies also don't completely remake their retro games.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,424
Australia
I wonder why people act like Crash is the industry standard rather than just calling that a great deal. Sony ported Last of Us to PS4 and charged 50 dollars for it. That's the same generation as Mario Galaxy. Most companies also don't completely remake their retro games.

There's been a string of high-quality remasters that followed in Crash's footsteps; The Spyro Reignited Trilogy, Crash Team Racing and now Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 + 2. We've been shown in no uncertain terms that developers can produce this kind of high quality work and sell it at a bargain price and still turn a profit.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
I wonder why people act like Crash is the industry standard rather than just calling that a great deal. Sony ported Last of Us to PS4 and charged 50 dollars for it. That's the same generation as Mario Galaxy. Most companies also don't completely remake their retro games.
Crash, spyro, SOTC, Ratchet and Clank, etc.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,592
There's been a string of high-quality remasters that followed in Crash's footsteps; The Spyro Reignited Trilogy, Crash Team Racing and now Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 + 2. We've been shown in no uncertain terms that developers can produce this kind of high quality work and sell it at a bargain price and still turn a profit.
Yeah, and that's cool. These are incredible deals, but there really is nothing else like this. Games from the GC era release all the time on all 3 consoles and they cost 20-30 dollars. Resident Evil games, Okami, Final Fantasy etc. No one thinks these are a ripoff. Games from the PS3/360/Wii gen tend to cost 30-50 dollars. It's weird to take the absolute best deal and apply it to everything.

We're also ignoring the fact that games like Mario Galaxy are about as big as all 3 Crash games combined. Remaking the Mario games would be a much bigger task because all 3 are much bigger games.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,424
Australia
Yeah, and that's cool. These are incredible deals, but there really is nothing else like this. Games from the GC era release all the time on all 3 consoles and they cost 20-30 dollars. Resident Evil games, Okami, Final Fantasy etc. No one thinks these are a ripoff. Games from the PS3/360/Wii gen tend to cost 30-50 dollars. It's weird to take the absolute best deal and apply it to everything.

I mean, I personally pass on digital copies of PS1/N64 or PS2/XBOX/GC games all the time because I don't find the prices to be reasonable. That's just me, though.

We're also ignoring the fact that games like Mario Galaxy are about as big as all 3 Crash games combined. Remaking the Mario games would be a much bigger task because all 3 are much bigger games.

While full remakes would've been lovely, most people I've seen here aren't upset because Nintendo didn't take that route. They're upset because Nintendo failed to perform even the most basic improvements, like widescreen support in 64 or 60fps support in Sunshine.

If all three games in the package had featured 60fps, widescreen presentations I'm certain we'd have seen much less upset.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
I mean, I personally pass on digital copies of PS1/N64 or PS2/XBOX/GC games all the time because I don't find the prices to be reasonable. That's just me, though.



While full remakes would've been lovely, most people I've seen here aren't upset because Nintendo didn't take that route. They're upset because Nintendo failed to perform even the most basic improvements, like widescreen support in 64 or 60fps support in Sunshine.

If all three games in the package had featured 60fps, widescreen presentations I'm certain we'd have seen much less upset.
Not to mention something as simple as gamecube controller support.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,708
The most oppressed group of them all

GAMERS

"when it comes to politics, i am a Gamer first"

Uh, that was even re-released as a Nintendo Selects. That's not what I would call a limited release.

The original release with the art book and special box was stated to be limited edition; they reissued it as a Selects title without those due to apparent "popular demand." Rather shockingly, the Nintendo Selects edition didn't come out until 2016.

A less "limited" edition in a few years could easily happen here, though I can't really imagine what they could possibly take out of this release. Maybe the sound select screen, I guess.
 

Cliff Steele

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,477
User Warned: Lazy Dev Rhetoric
Nintendo mastered the art of the lazy port.

I love them. Give me more of it.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,592
Yea, but in the case of Ratchet and Clank, it was a full blown remake/reboot and even at the time, people were blown away by it being such a good deal at $40 for launch.
I mean, yeah that was cool, but we got that in place of a new game which I definitely didn't prefer. Still that's one game vs 3. The ports would be 20 a piece which is a little high for Mario 64, standard for Sunshine, and low for Galaxy. I'm just not seeing how this is some massive ripoff compared to 95 percent of the industry.

But to each their own.
 

Fantastical

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,371
I think this is a good point and I am going to respond to it seriously. If you were just shitposting then feel free to ignore me.

Based on what I have read and seen discussed (I am not an expert by any measure) there are clear signs of companies exploiting the psychology of addiction in order to squeeze as much money as they can from gatcha/lootboxes. There is a wealth of information out there as to why lootboxes and RNG are akin to gambling, and harmuful for some players.

Now I dont see how Nintendo offering a product, a clearly labelled one, a collection of old games that is pretty much faithful to how those games were when they launched, how is this in the same ballpark as gatcha.
But the price of a 3090!!
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,006
TBH even if it is a limited run, I think that the 6 months it is going to be in the market are more than enough for everyone that wants the game to buy it.
I think it's mostly because it's something people had been waiting for a long time and it releases pretty soon.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
I mean, yeah that was cool, but we got that in place of a new game which I definitely didn't prefer. Still that's one game vs 3. The ports would be 20 a piece which is a little high for Mario 64, standard for Sunshine, and low for Galaxy. I'm just not seeing how this is some massive ripoff compared to 95 percent of the industry.

But to each their own.
How is it low for Galaxy when it was $20 on the wii?