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Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,727
Who says that's the argument? The statement was that independents vote in the general and not in the primaries.

The statement was that independents would come out for Bernie, when they wouldn't come out for Biden or Trump. It's a theory with no evidence. We're basing it off these dumbass "independent" voter stories, lol.

My point was that Bernie has not shown a propensity for energizing non-voters, there's just been no evidence of that.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,707
Not that this should matter at all considering the state that we're in now, but I would ask to any referencing their 401K balance under Trump how it did under Obama to make them look more stupid in addition to being undecided.
 

EOS-HDC

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
769
Tijuana, B.C, Mexico
I don't get how people still see Trump as someone who "tells it like it is" after openly admiting that he downplayed the Coronavirus to, "not cause panic" as he said. I mean, couldn't he have "said it like it is"?.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
The statement was that independents would come out for Bernie, when they wouldn't come out for Biden or Trump. It's a theory with no evidence. We're basing it off these dumbass "independent" voter stories, lol.

My point was that Bernie has not shown a propensity for energizing non-voters, there's just been no evidence of that.
Yeah I have no idea either I'm just clarifying what samoyed was saying.
 
A whole lot of "normal" people have no fucking idea what's happening around them or what they even really believe, it is true. On the other hand, even with so many dumb people who are easily swayed by nonsense, Republicans still can't win elections without massive cheating and voter suppression.

This tells me that over time, pure selection pressure has forced a majority of people to figure out what they actually do think about things. And it makes sense that in order to survive this mounting pressure and remain an incredibly ignorant "undecided" you've got to be REALLY dumb.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,064
Independents have very, very strange political ideology/worldview, that often completely contradict each other depending on the issue. Articles like this always reveal that absurdity.
Isn't that the whole point of being "Independent"? There isn't an Independant ideology, it just means you dislike both Republicans and Democrats.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Isn't that the whole point of being "Independent"? There isn't an Independant ideology, it just means you dislike both Republicans and Democrats.
Kind of? You can see yourself as not represented very well by either political party and still have a coherent political ideology, most democracies are not two party systems. But in practice a lot of independents are just all over the place.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,954
Also, lol at the supposed NPR listener being undecided. I know NPR can get slammed for adhering to closely to a "moderate" style of broadcasting. But, there's no way you listen to NPR every morning and come away undecided.

Reads like my parents. Who decided to tell me the other day Clinton was more corrupt than Trump.

But they also missed the whole gassing protestors for a photo op, and my step dad thought Obama made gay marriage legal instead of it being a supreme court case. You're undecided because you don't pay attention unless it affects you.

My mother just pulled this shit on me, again, yesterday and I had to correct her; again.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
If the argument is people who don't normally vote, I'm not sure how primary vs general is really a distinction that actually matters. But, it's okay. We're all operating in theoretical fantasyland without evidence.
These interviewees sound like regular voters??? Except for the 21 year old and the 25 year old I guess.

I'm not sure how you read these statements and come away with "these are non voters Bernie wouldn't have activated anyway".
In 2016, he voted for Gary Johnson, the ex-governor of New Mexico who served as a Republican but made his White House run as a Libertarian. Before that, he voted for Republican John McCain in 2008 and Democrat Obama in 2012.
Roan Kirschbaum, 28, who studies sound design in Oshkosh, Wis., and is looking for work, has voted only for Green Party candidates in the past, but he's open to either Trump or Biden this time and hopes they'll use the debate to address how social media platforms are warping the country's political discussion by feeding people evermore extreme views.
The couple voted for Donald Trump four years ago, but they can't stand how he's divided the country and emboldened white supremacists. They like Joe Biden, but recoil at the idea of higher taxes and bigger spending.
Tollefsrud, 35, thought early this year that she'd finally found a candidate who reflects her concerns about climate change, education and racial justice. She liked Andrew Yang in the Democratic primary race, but now she's torn. She's suspicious of Democrats like Biden who she sees as unfamiliar with and unsympathetic to rural residents and gun owners.

Anyway my intent wasn't to dredge up the primaries again though I realize that's what I did. My intent was to highlight that economic populism is the way forward if you're trying to reach swing voters. It could be Biden, Warren, Yang, whoever the fuck. I don't really frankly care. Just help these people convincingly and stop catering to rich deep blue states.

The Democratic party needs to stop demanding these voters conform to their expectations of a rational voter and needs to start figuring out how to communicate with them. I laid out my suggestion, that is all I wanted to do.
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,008
"Inspire me or I won't vote"

For fucks sake, think about how it affects OTHER people. Selfish asshats.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
I don't get how people still see Trump as someone who "tells it like it is" after openly admiting that he downplayed the Coronavirus to, "not cause panic" as he said. I mean, couldn't he have "said it like it is"?.
I think "he tells it like it is" usually translates to "he doesn't talk like a politician." While his "celebrity" certainly helped, I think he won the Republican primary by being the loudest, maddest guy in the room. While the redhats obviously drank the Kool Aid and have no passing relationship with the truth, anyone else saying "he tells it like it is" is just doing it based on speech pattern. It's all tone of voice; the words are irrelevant. It's sort of the whole "Who'd you like to have a beer with" thing from the Bush era.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
These interviewees sound like regular voters??? Except for the 21 year old and the 25 year old I guess.

I'm not sure how you read these statements and come away with "these are non voters Bernie wouldn't have activated anyway".





Anyway my intent wasn't to dredge up the primaries again though I realize that's what I did. My intent was to highlight that economic populism is the way forward if you're trying to reach swing voters. It could be Biden, Warren, Yang, whoever the fuck. I don't really frankly care. Just help these people convincingly and stop catering to rich deep blue states.

The Democratic party needs to stop demanding these voters conform to their expectations of a rational voter and needs to start figuring out how to communicate with them. I laid out my suggestion, that is all I wanted to do.

The Democratic Party is beyond saving. It can be used as a minor tool for harm reduction, which is why I don't preach non-voting, but any legitimate path forward is going to entail working outside and against it.
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
"I'll decide based on the debates," said George Cottingham, a 25-year-old music production student in Racine, Wis. "I want to see a sense of purpose. I always can tell if someone's competent by seeing how they present themselves."

I can't make it beyond this point. Your dumb ass has seen how Trump presents himself for at least 4 years now. And you're undecided? Fuck outta here.

Also, Green Party voter considering Trump is both the least and most surprising thing ever.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,676
These are the idiots that are gonna decide this thing.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,590
Parts Unknown.
I'm an undecided voter.

On one hand you have Trump and all the things he's done which are very bad.

On the other hand though you have Joe Biden and he lingers during hugs... I just don't know.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,727
"I'll decide based on the debates," said George Cottingham, a 25-year-old music production student in Racine, Wis. "I want to see a sense of purpose. I always can tell if someone's competent by seeing how they present themselves."

I can't make it beyond this point. Your dumb ass has seen how Trump presents himself for at least 4 years now. And you're undecided? Fuck outta here.

Also, Green Party voter considering Trump is both the least and most surprising thing ever.

I guarantee 80% of the people who say they voted Green, either didn't vote, or voted for Trump in 2016.
 

Hexcalibur

Member
Jun 24, 2020
256
Interview must've been conducted at a Trump rally.

Seeing how people are using these ass hats as an example to defend representative democracy then the article's probably working as intended.
 

Lost Lemurian

Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,295
I hate to sound elitist, or conceited, or whatever, but these interviews inevitably reinforce my belief that a disturbing percentage of people are just stupid.

Not misinformed or underinformed or ignorant, but just stupid. If you can watch any Donald Trump speech or interview for 90 seconds and don't realize that he's an idiot, then you're an idiot. There's just no way around that I can see. It hurts me. It hurts my faith in democracy.
 

Deleted member 75819

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 22, 2020
1,520
I hate to sound elitist, or conceited, or whatever, but these interviews inevitably reinforce my belief that a disturbing percentage of people are just stupid.

Not misinformed or underinformed or ignorant, but just stupid. If you can watch any Donald Trump speech or interview for 90 seconds and don't realize that he's an idiot, then you're an idiot. There's just no way around that I can see. It hurts me. It hurts my faith in democracy.
I think it's as simple as an incredibly narrow, ego-bound and shallow worldview. They lack the capacity to consider nuance with social, economic and cultural issues. My FIL is an incredibly bright dude—knows a lot of random facts about everything and is a very successful physician, but boy when you discuss politics with him it's a different story.
 

Deleted member 34725

User-requested account closure
Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,058
Reading ignorant and confused people's opinions really has no worth. So many journalists love digging into the mind of the uninformed swing voter. These kind of articles only exist as clickbait for liberals and leftists who want to infuriate themselves.
 

Lost Lemurian

Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,295
I think it's as simple as an incredibly narrow, egotistic and shallow worldview. They lack the capacity to consider nuance with social, economic and cultural issues. My FIL is an incredibly bright dude—knows a lot of random facts about everything and is a very successful physician, but boy when you discuss politics with him it's a different story.
Maybe "stupid" is an inadequate word. I don't know. It's not about "ignorance" in the sense of a lack of general knowledge or lived experience, either. Because you're right: lots of worldly, successful, knowledgeable people support Trump. Maybe it is about egotism. A lack of healthy caution, skepticism, and forethought. The kind of mindset that compels one to try a shortcut and then ardently refuse to ask directions if you become lost. Or put something together without looking at the instructions ("I know what I'm doing!") only to realize that you've got a pile of parts left over at the end and the thing never works quite right.
 

Deleted member 75819

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 22, 2020
1,520
Maybe "stupid" is an inadequate word. I don't know. It's not about "ignorance" in the sense of a lack of general knowledge or lived experience, either. Because you're right: lots of worldly, successful, knowledgeable people support Trump. Maybe it is about egotism. A lack of healthy caution, skepticism, and forethought. The kind of mindset that compels one to try a shortcut and then ardently refuse to ask directions if you become lost. Or put something together without looking at the instructions ("I know what I'm doing!") only to realize that you've got a pile of parts left over at the end and the thing never works quite right.
This is apt for sure, both my fathers are exactly that way lmao. I agree: it boils down to a tendency to be reductive, relying on outdated general wisdom with a dash (read: fuckton) of unearned confidence in their opinions on massive social systems they've barely tried understanding on a deeper level.
 

Fubar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,723
There is a good chunk of people out there who view President elections as "who is going to help me most?" They don't care about anyone else, they want to know who is going to specifically help them and only them.

By extension, when the dude's 401k goes up by 35%, that helps him. That means Trump is a good President. Kids in cages, COVID response, etc. None of that affects him directly so as a result its totally fine.

I hate these types of voters. Selfish jerks.
 

jakomocha

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,572
California
God sounds like all these people either will vote for Trump or won't vote at all. Guess that's to be expected of people who still haven't fucking made their mind up
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,605
Basically

should.png
 

CorpseLight

Member
Nov 3, 2018
7,666
Imagine still not being sure who to vote for when you have a gay son who wants to marry his boyfriend, and one side of the political spectrum wants being gay to be illegal.

How depressing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,355
so basically the majority are selfish Americans who are mildly inconvenienced by all the bad things happening in the country, and kinda shrug and just say "gimme more stuff"

Isn't that a lot of voters? They're only going to care about themselves. They mainly care about the ability to put food on the table every day. With how shitty the economy is here, I can't fully blame them.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,376
I don't even know how someone goes from a Green Party diehard to Trump supporter...
Despite a mostly progressive platform and image, the U.S. Greens go all in on attacking Democrats over Republicans. They do so to the point where I'm not surprised some end up viewing a Trump Presidency as the lesser of evils.

There's also a "burn it all down" philosophy among some of their membership, thinking it'll lead to the downfall of American Imperialism, and a popular revolution where Leftists come out on top.
 

chaostrophy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,378
The biggest bull is that's exactly what the Democratic party has been, except when these people say "fiscally conservative" they don't actually mean government responsibly using money they mean "lower my taxes."

Sometimes it's not even that, they mean "lower rich people's taxes" even when they're not rich themselves.
 
May 15, 2018
1,898
Denmark
I think some of it is honestly just base level personality like or dislike, but then when asked about it from a reporter they try and scrape up some logic to something they probably didn't think much of in the first place so that leads to some weird answers. A strange comparison, but a similar thing happens with graphic design work (I'm in that field). Someone won't like the work and grasps for reasons even if those reasons are absurd but the underlying thing is that they just don't like it and can't explain that rationally.

Just wait until these outlets interview these people after Trump is curb-stomped in the election...
I'm quite sure studies have shown that this is very common for most voters. Rarely do a voter's preferences perfectly align with a party's.
 

Bronlonius

Member
Oct 29, 2017
438
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...11c650-fd9e-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html

WHITE SUPREMACY IS BAD BUT HIGHER TAXES ARE ALSO BAD:
Do you make $400k or more? If so, yes, your taxes will go up a bit, but if you make less than $400k, then your taxes won't change at all.



SKEPTICISM ON WEARING MASKS IS REASONABLE DESPITE THE MASSIVE THREAT:
Wear a mask, they're proven to help. Just look at Japan, who have been wearing masks for years, before covid. They work, so wear one.



GREEN PARTY VOTER THINKS SOCIAL MEDIA PUSHES PEOPLE TO EXTREME:
Social media can be cancer, it's all how you curate your feeds, and react to them. [/QUOTE]



EXHAUSTED VOTER HAPPY HIS 401K IS DOING WELL:
Democrats always, and I mean always, have better economies, it's just harder to see lately because the Republicans always crash it on their way out, leaving the cleanup for Dems. Every single time. Fact.



VIEW OF DEMOCRATS SOURED BECAUSE OF QUESTIONING SEXUAL ASSAULTER:
??? nitpicking to try to avoid voting?



AMERICA FIRST IS BAD, HELPING GOOD, BUT GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE OUR MOM:
The government is there to protect its citizens, that's literally its number 1 job.



DEMOCRATS UNSYMPATHETIC TO RURAL RESIDENTS, ALSO TRUMP DOESN'T FLIP-FLOP:
provide examples, as this is just asinine. Trump flip flops hourly, lying about and distracting from what he's recorded on video saying. Stop with these bad faith arguments, as it seems you really just want to vote Trump, but don't want the optics and/or guilt of it.



LIBERAL CHEMIST PERPLEXED BY TRUMP'S ANTI-SCIENCE, BUT CLOSING TAX LOOPHOLES IS NICE:



INSPIRE ME OR I WON'T VOTE
What do you actually want? Why isn't Biden's economic plan good enough for you, or his environmental plan, or any others? Cmon, now you're being obtuse. What, do you want an invitation to have dinner with Biden or Trump to make you consider voting?
 

Alcoremortis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,558
I liked to say I was fiscally conservative when I was 18 and I thought that sounded smart. By the time I turned 22, I learned this was, in fact, stupid.