• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
By "bad" that can mean not designed well, hurtful, offensive, problematic, poorly written, poorly considered, etc.

In Batman: Arkham Asylum, the Joker orchestrates a takeover of the asylum and manages to get his many henchman to be transferred to Arkham as part of his plan.

The joker gang constitute most of the enemies the player faces, but there are patients introduced later on. However, all the patients are portrayed as feral, snarling freaks in undone straitjackets who will clamber atop Batman if the player misses a counter, and only stop once the player mashes buttons to make Batman slam them down and punch their heads into the ground.

Arkham isn't portrayed as a benevolent facility, but these enemies being the sole depiction of mental illness aside from named characters/enemies was in real bad taste. There's some surface lore that suggests these patients were experimented on and made to be this way, but it's subtext that should've been text, and the game wasn't really made better with their inclusion. It's made worse that there are no patients to help or save throughout the game. I didn't expect nuanced handling of such issues, but other games in the series at least sidestep that particular enemy type.

I realized this messed up a while ago, but it was still years after finishing the game. It feels like something from an older game, but it was only a decade ago—mental health depictions still are poorly handled in most media.
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,129
Australia
I'm not an expert, but Arkham Asylum is for the dangerously criminally insane people, not normal patients, right?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if Batman has ever depicted people going to a normal mental health facility before.
 

Nigel Tufnel

Member
Mar 5, 2019
3,146
KoTOR doesn't tell you when a container has been searched or emptied, and I didn't realize how much that sucked until I went to replay it after KoTOR 2 which does.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
I'm not an expert, but Arkham Asylum is for the dangerously criminally insane people, not normal patients, right?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if Batman has ever depicted people going to a normal mental health facility before.
It's a widespread issue in media that the mentally ill are depicted as animal-like in their behavior. In real life, people who act like that are few and far between. As we work towards destigmitization of mental illness, stuff like this seems even more in poor taste.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
But to answer the question, BioShock Infinite doing the whole white savior thing was really gross in hindsight, especially since it tries to get you to sympathize with oppressed minorities, only to have you mowing down hoards of them in the final battle since it has them go all bloodthirsty at the drop of a hat. Talk about poorly handled.
 

_zoipi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 23, 2017
2,377
Madrid
Octopath Traveler has a SPOILER boss that negates like the character you have to use for that boss fight and one of the most usefull so you can't heal or use AoE spells. I was loving the game and then realised it and now i hate the game.
 

EmptyWarren

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,250
When I was a little kid, I kept renting a game called Monkey Hero on Playstation. Loved that shit because I didn't have a 64 so I couldn't play Zelda so that shit was like my Zelda. Going back and seeing that it runs at like 8 fps and is absolutely trash was disheartening. Should've let it be.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
Looking back, a lot of games had sexy scantily clad women as nazis in the PS2 era and PS3 era. Games like The Saboteur, Return to Castle Wolfenstein did this shit and it is embarrassing to look at.

Seriously, why the fuck would you make sexy nazi women? Nazis are scum.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,326
I'm not a Batman expert or anything, but is Arkham Asylum ever portrayed another way?
 
OP
OP
Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
I'm not a Batman expert or anything, but is Arkham Asylum ever portrayed another way?
The patients aren't universally depicted as animals though. Arkham is generally a deeply flawed institution, but the dehumanization is usually on behalf of the Asylum itself, not merely the media portraying mentally ill characters as subhuman.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,151
I'm not an expert, but Arkham Asylum is for the dangerously criminally insane people, not normal patients, right?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if Batman has ever depicted people going to a normal mental health facility before.

There's a spectrum in its depictions. For example, in BTAS Arkham is depicted as a fairly mundane and caring facility, where not every occupant is out to get anyone. Batman is even admitted in one episode. The cell looked very uncomfortable but his treatment was overseen by a doctor whose first priority was the wellbeing of his patient. The juxtaposition of the building's dark and threatening appearance and the quality of patient care is pretty funny tbh.

AA's Arkham is one of the more brutal depictions I've seen, treating it as less of an asylum and more of a really shitty and gleefully abusive prison.
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,129
Australia
It's a widespread issue in media that the mentally ill are depicted as animal-like in their behavior. In real life, people who act like that are few and far between. As we work towards destigmitization of mental illness, stuff like this seems even more in poor taste.
Yeah you're right, I wasn't taking into account the overall problem with asylum depictions when I made that reply.
There's a spectrum in its depictions. For example, in BTAS Arkham is depicted as a fairly mundane and caring facility, where not every occupant is out to get anyone. Batman is even admitted in one episode. The cell looked very uncomfortable but his treatment was overseen by a doctor whose first priority was the wellbeing of his patient. The juxtaposition of the building's dark and threatening appearance and the quality of patient care is pretty funny tbh.

AA's Arkham is one of the more brutal depictions I've seen, treating it as less of an asylum and more of a really shitty and gleefully abusive prison.
Thanks for this. That makes the games depiction even stranger.
 

Masterspeed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,825
England
It's literally called Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane. Not Arkham Asylum for the mentally challenged.

Arkham isn't the only asylum in Gotham. It's just the one for the Criminally insane. It's like a super jail.
 
OP
OP
Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
It's literally called Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane. Not Arkham Asylum for the mentally challenged.

Arkham isn't the only asylum in Gotham. It's just the one for the Criminally insane. It's like a super jail.

It doesn't say "animalistically insane and those prone to biting" on the sign though

and there were no patents that showed any sapience, unless you count the knife dudes as patients—wasn't clear if they were just transferred Joker thugs.
 

Masterspeed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,825
England
It doesn't say "animalistically insane" on the sign though and there were no patents that showed any sapience, unless you count the knife dudes as patients—wasn't clear if they were just transferred Joker thugs.

It's Arkham. They're not going to throw people with (I'm not going to say normal because that sounds wrong) different mental lillnesses in the same building with the likes of the Joker, Riddler, KILLER CROC and serial killers.

It's a completely different facility than actual ones.
 
OP
OP
Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
It's Arkham. They're not going to throw people with (I'm not going to say normal because that sounds wrong) different mental lillnesses in the same building with the likes of the Joker, Riddler, KILLER CROC and serial killers.

It's a completely different facility than actual ones.

How does that excuse the feral enemy type being the only example of patients there? The problem isn't that they're depicted as bad—it's that they're depicted only as subhuman, a negative stereotype of the mentally ill.
 

RavFiveFour

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
1,721
You can find beef anywhere, for example I don't have a problem with Majoras Mask 3D making changes to the games original format (Zora mask, Zora Boss fight etc.) they aren't even important.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,151
It's Arkham. They're not going to throw people with (I'm not going to say normal because that sounds wrong) different mental lillnesses in the same building with the likes of the Joker, Riddler, KILLER CROC and serial killers.

It's a completely different facility than actual ones.

That doesn't really have anything to do with how the creators chose to depict mental illness, which is what is being criticized.

Even among people with severe mental illness, the behavior of the "normal," non-serial-killer inmates (which is, uniformly, snarling, convulsive slobbering, mindless ranting, and an immediate and unrelenting pursuit of violence) is really, really, really abnormal.

I'm having trouble thinking of a single instance of a (non villain) mentally ill person in AA who didn't just attack (or try to attack from behind glass or bars) on sight. Genuine question: can anybody think of one? There was a lot going on in that game so I may well be forgetting someone.

I've struggled with mental illness my entire life and I still love AA. It was so good that a large number of action games still just pluck out its mechanics and give them a new coat of paint.

Doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be criticized for things it did that weren't awesome.
 
Last edited:

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,276
If someone is conflating the cartoonish depiction of Mental patients in a Batman product with actual real people with mental health issues,

That's a personal issue/flaw with the person themselves

Who is looking at Batman and saying "Yeah this is how mentally ill people all behave in reality!".
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
Arkham it's a joke and not meant to be taken seriously not even within the very same fiction of its own world. An useless place that not only fails to help the patients but also to contain them.
 
OP
OP
Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Arkham it's a joke and not meant to be taken seriously not even within the very same fiction of its own world. An useless place that not only fails to help the patients but also to contain them.

Arkham is usually written as a broken institution, but the Arkham Asylum game itself depicts the patients as being feral and almost inhuman across the board—even if they're all ostensibly criminals, they would still be human, and not all of them would attack on-sight like a Dark Souls creature.

Some of the non-Joker gang patients could've been depicted as at least being capable of speech.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,276
Are you asking how could stereotypical, regressive, yet fictional depictions of the mentally ill affect people's perspectives on mental health?

I'm not even all that pressed on Batman, I just think it's the most extreme example because it's so highly fictionalized.

The conversation on mental health is evolving. The image of someone in a straight jacket isn't what empathetic people think about when they hear Mental Health
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
Arkham is usually written as a broken institution, but the Arkham Asylum game itself depicts the patients as being feral and almost inhuman across the board—even if they're all ostensibly criminals, they would still be human, and not all of them would attack on-sight like a Dark Souls creature.

Some of the non-Joker gang patients could've been depicted as at least being capable of speech.

I get your point. I don't remember correctly but the enemies with the straight jackets are not representative of the whole population of inmates correct? Just the most dangerous?

Anyway. Like I said I get what you saying and yes I agree . The thing is that I don't think you used a correct example, Batman and Batman stories are all about mental issues, you remove those and you don't have a story so it makes sense within that highly fictionalized world to have dangerous people like that.
 
OP
OP
Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
I'm not even all that pressed on Batman, I just think it's the most extreme example because it's so highly fictionalized.

The conversation on mental health is evolving. The image of someone in a straight jacket isn't what empathetic people think about when they hear Mental Health
People may not expect the mentally ill to be just like they're shown in Arkham Asylum, but that showing contributes to fallacies that they're inherently more dangerous than others and warrant being slammed into the ground.

Like, there's a thread on off-topic about some US police suffocating a man who was having an episode while they joke about it—not everyone is empathetic and terrible regressive depictions of mental illness certainly don't curtail that cycle of mistreatment.

Sure, people should base their understanding of psychology/people/anything on games or let games or let games/fictional media shape said understanding, but they do.

I get your point. I don't remember correctly but the enemies with the straight jackets are not representative of the whole population of inmates correct? Just the most dangerous?

Anyway. Like I said I get what you saying and yes I agree . The thing is that I don't think you used a correct example, Batman and Batman stories are all about mental issues, you remove those and you don't have a story so it makes sense within that highly fictionalized world to have dangerous people like that.
we don't see any "normal" patients in the game.

They could have had some of the doctors/guards that the player needs to save or who they can talk to be other patients to show the Arkham patients can be something other than feral, howling beats who crouch-run like monkeys at Batman. The names villains are often given human stories and opportunities to show they aren't just vacuous animals.
 
Last edited:

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,276
People may not expect the mentally ill to be just like they're shown in Arkham Asylum, but that showing contributes to fallacies that they're inherently more dangerous than others and warrant being slammed into the ground.

Like, there's a thread on off-topic about some US police suffocating a man who was having an episode while they joke about it—not everyone is empathetic and terrible regressive depictions of mental illness certainly don't curtail that cycle of mistreatment.

That's fair, I would hope people would have more understanding for the subject but what I'm asking for kinda ignores our current standing with current society

I understand how you feel
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I love Crash and Spyro, but some of their enemies were... suspect.

di4ub1n4srx11.png

9457654.jpg
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
People may not expect the mentally ill to be just like they're shown in Arkham Asylum, but that showing contributes to fallacies that they're inherently more dangerous than others and warrant being slammed into the ground.

Like, there's a thread on off-topic about some US police suffocating a man who was having an episode while they joke about it—not everyone is empathetic and terrible regressive depictions of mental illness certainly don't curtail that cycle of mistreatment.

Sure, people should base their understanding of psychology/people/anything on games or let games or let games/fictional media shape said understanding, but they do.

we don't see any "normal" patients in the game.

They could have had some of the doctors/guards that the player needs to save or who they can talk to be other patients to show the Arkham patients can be something other than feral, howling beats who crouch-run like monkeys at Batman. The names villains are often given human stories and opportunities to show they aren't just vacuous animals.

Yeah I agree, nevertheless I think that the second part of my last message still stands.

This is really interesting conversation to have though. Currently I'm struggling in thinking of any examples when they portrait people with mental issues not within the "dark triad "on really bad light. Not only speaking about video games but overall.
 

RiamuFG

Director at Chuhai Labs
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
81
Kyoto, Japan
I don't miss the game corners -- i.e., slot machines -- in Pokemon games. At all.

I only found out yesterday that these even existed as they were removed from the European/PAL versions of the games. I was talking to someone about it and they fondly remembered them, I was like... "What the hell are you talking about?". Yeah, turns out EU was clamping down on that stuff in kids games early.
 

Buff Beefbroth

Chicken Chaser
Member
Apr 12, 2018
3,011
Really liked The Last of Us when I played through it, but once the honeymoon wore off it was really just baby's first zombie apocalypse story.

It's a series of familiar, well-presented tropes with no real lasting impact.